Greetings, I am currently playing a lv 5 Elven Bladesinger, and our group is close to level 6. While speaking with my DM he and I both feel that the Extra Attack feature at my upcoming level is a bit of a step back for how I use this character. He has allowed my to run some ideas by him for alternative, and this is what I came up with so far:
Song of Battle: at level six while your bladesong is active you can make 1 melee attack as a bonus action after casting a 1 action spell or cantrip.
It feels similar to the Eldritch Knight abilities of lv 7 and 14, but limited in its use based on short rest frequency.
I am looking for community feedback, would this ability be too powerful?
If needed I can provide a list of spells that I currently have access to
I like it, especially since it's tied directly to your Bladesong ability. I'd thought about just swapping out Extra Attack for the War Magic feature, but didn't like that they would get it before an Eldritch Knight, but tying it to their Bladesong ability makes it feel like more of a trade off.
About to hit 5th level with my bladesinger, which I'm enjoying very much, and am a bit perplexed by the extra attack as I'm using GFB and booming most of the times... though I think it's about having some flexibility, it works pretty well with the shadow blade I think and also if you want to do a bit of archery from distance. That said what I like the most is the flexibility that the character offers, so I take it as another option...though guess gonna be a bit envious of our eldritch knight when he'll be using his war magic...oh well I get fireball waaaay before him...and can't wait to use haste ;P
About to hit 5th level with my bladesinger, which I'm enjoying very much, and am a bit perplexed by the extra attack as I'm using GFB and booming most of the times
Yeah, in my opinion this is what is wrong with DarcHalfmoon2983's suggestion. At 6th level Extra Attack for a Bladesinger is a pretty weak bonus, probably intended to provide options rather than being useful most of the time. Basically you can do 1d8+DEX damage twice, or you can use GFB and do 2d8+DEX and 1d8+INT, or use BB to do 2d8+DEX and hopefully another 2d8 on top of that. It's not at all clear that attacking twice is better than just using the regular cantrips. Then starting at 11th level the cantrips are just better period. By comparison, giving Bladesingers the equivalent of the Eldritch Knight's Improved War Magic is a nice little damage bonus for the entire rest of their career. That doesn't seem like an equivalent exchange to me. It seems like trading a weak ability for a stronger one.
I would also point out that Improved War Magic is the Eldritch Knight's 18th level ability. Think hard before giving that out at 6th level. Sure it's only active sometimes (while Bladesinging) but then if you have the sort of campaign where you only get into two serious fights per short rest (which seems normal to me) then that isn't even a major limitation.
After the variety of suggestions, and trying it both ways in mock encounters with the DM, it seems to be alright at lower levels but we are both concerned about how it will play out with spell scaling, magic weapons. Currently sticking to extra attack feature, but my DM is continuing to brainstorm on other options.
If you use your bonus action for various spell effects like Melf's Minute Meteors or Flaming Sphere, you can really throw out a lot of damage while you're also getting two attacks and it only takes 1 spell slot for potentially a whole encounter. Also Shadow Blade is a crowd favorite for having two attacks as well. You can't use booming blade anymore but these are all good trade-offs. Let's look at a few options and compare average damages and I think you'll see how many good options you have with 2 attacks. Let's assume 3 DEX bonus and all attacks hit:
Average damage of using BB (without the enemy moving) with a 1d8 weapon: 12. If the enemy does move: 21 (although this is not guaranteed and you're probably standing right next to the enemy or giving up an opportunity attack unless you have the mobile feat). Let's say you get his bonus damage from the enemy moving (generously) 50% of the time, that comes to 16.5
Average damage of using two attacks with a 1d8 weapon: 15
If you include a bonus action spell like Flaming Sphere (Level 2 spell - 2d6 damage for failed save) with the two attacks and a 1d8 weapon: 22. 18.5 for a successful save. 50% fail rate: 20.25
If you're not using BB, you can also do two weapon fighting with two 1d6 weapons. Average damage:16.5.
Greetings, I am currently playing a lv 5 Elven Bladesinger, and our group is close to level 6. While speaking with my DM he and I both feel that the Extra Attack feature at my upcoming level is a bit of a step back for how I use this character. He has allowed my to run some ideas by him for alternative, and this is what I came up with so far:
Song of Battle: at level six while your bladesong is active you can make 1 melee attack as a bonus action after casting a 1 action spell or cantrip.
It feels similar to the Eldritch Knight abilities of lv 7 and 14, but limited in its use based on short rest frequency.
I am looking for community feedback, would this ability be too powerful?
If needed I can provide a list of spells that I currently have access to
Thanks for your help!!
I like it, especially since it's tied directly to your Bladesong ability. I'd thought about just swapping out Extra Attack for the War Magic feature, but didn't like that they would get it before an Eldritch Knight, but tying it to their Bladesong ability makes it feel like more of a trade off.
About to hit 5th level with my bladesinger, which I'm enjoying very much, and am a bit perplexed by the extra attack as I'm using GFB and booming most of the times... though I think it's about having some flexibility, it works pretty well with the shadow blade I think and also if you want to do a bit of archery from distance. That said what I like the most is the flexibility that the character offers, so I take it as another option...though guess gonna be a bit envious of our eldritch knight when he'll be using his war magic...oh well I get fireball waaaay before him...and can't wait to use haste ;P
Yeah, in my opinion this is what is wrong with DarcHalfmoon2983's suggestion. At 6th level Extra Attack for a Bladesinger is a pretty weak bonus, probably intended to provide options rather than being useful most of the time. Basically you can do 1d8+DEX damage twice, or you can use GFB and do 2d8+DEX and 1d8+INT, or use BB to do 2d8+DEX and hopefully another 2d8 on top of that. It's not at all clear that attacking twice is better than just using the regular cantrips. Then starting at 11th level the cantrips are just better period. By comparison, giving Bladesingers the equivalent of the Eldritch Knight's Improved War Magic is a nice little damage bonus for the entire rest of their career. That doesn't seem like an equivalent exchange to me. It seems like trading a weak ability for a stronger one.
I would also point out that Improved War Magic is the Eldritch Knight's 18th level ability. Think hard before giving that out at 6th level. Sure it's only active sometimes (while Bladesinging) but then if you have the sort of campaign where you only get into two serious fights per short rest (which seems normal to me) then that isn't even a major limitation.
After the variety of suggestions, and trying it both ways in mock encounters with the DM, it seems to be alright at lower levels but we are both concerned about how it will play out with spell scaling, magic weapons. Currently sticking to extra attack feature, but my DM is continuing to brainstorm on other options.
One potential option could be to scale it similar to how the EK War Magic scales, starting with cantrips and adding spells at a later level.
If you use your bonus action for various spell effects like Melf's Minute Meteors or Flaming Sphere, you can really throw out a lot of damage while you're also getting two attacks and it only takes 1 spell slot for potentially a whole encounter. Also Shadow Blade is a crowd favorite for having two attacks as well. You can't use booming blade anymore but these are all good trade-offs. Let's look at a few options and compare average damages and I think you'll see how many good options you have with 2 attacks. Let's assume 3 DEX bonus and all attacks hit:
yeah like what IS the point of extra attack when the same damm book also gives you booming blade? fair tradeoff
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes