Level
Cantrip
Casting Time
1 Action
Range/Area
120 ft.
Components
V, S
Duration
Instantaneous
School
Evocation
Attack/Save
Ranged
Damage/Effect
Acid (...)
You cast sorcerous energy at one creature or object within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 damage of a type you choose: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison, Psychic, or Thunder.
If you roll an 8 on a d8 for this spell, you can roll another d8, and add it to the damage. When you cast this spell, the maximum number of these d8s you can add to the spell’s damage equals your spellcasting ability modifier.
Cantrip Upgrade. The damage increases by 1d8 when you reach levels 5 (2d8), 11 (3d8), and 17 (4d8).
at level 5 with a +3 spell casting modifier. Does this max at 3d8 or can each d8 explode up to 3d8 making the max at level 5 with a +3 6d8?
I read it as the first, but it very well could be the later.
This makes up for the changes to Chill Touch. Looking forward to using this with a quickened leveled spell.
It would max at 3d8. "the maximum number of these d8s you can add to the spell’s damage equals your spellcasting ability modifier."
It specifies the maximum number of d8s that can be added to the damage, not the maximum number per die.
Wouldn't the max be 5d8? Because 2d8 is the standard and you can ADD dice up to your modifier to that damage so 2d8 base and up to 3d8 added to that if you roll great. Makes 5d8 total in my opinion.
This is how I would interpret it as well. Let's go 40 damage cantrip.
I would agree that the max would be 5d8 at level 5 with a +3 modifier.
You get to add a d8 for any 8 rolled, including any of the added d8, up to your modifier.
Hypothetically, a level 1 sorcerer with 20 (+5) charisma could roll an 8 on their 1d8, then add another d8, roll an 8, add another d8... up to 5 times for 6d8 total. Giving a 1 in 16777216 chance of doing 48 damage
I'm pretty sure it is just a typo, but the language for this spell requires you to "Make a ranged attack roll" and doesn't specify "Ranged spell attack roll" as other spells do. Could you use Dex for this?
This is a really good cantrip, and I am guessing it is the successor to Chaos Bolt (due to both being Sorcerer-exclusive spells) since Chromatic Orb got it's bouncing mechanic. This thing can do some serious damage, especally as it increases in damage and/or you crit, as that means more chances for more D8s!
Since you cast spells with your class’ modifier and spells now use the Magic action, I do not think that is the case.
i wonder should that be 96 if the original attack roll is a NAT20
This is quite a good cantrip for reasons already described. However, we shouldn’t miss the fact that its also an attack roll and sorcerers can get advantage on attack rolls through their innate sorcery feature.
WOOT!!! SNEAK ATTACK WITH A SPELL!!!
You double the initial damage dice when critting, so the max with 20 Charisma would be 7d8. The initial cantrip damage dice is doubled, but I don't think the additional damage on top of it would double. But now that I'm typing this out, I see an argument that every extra d8 you add would be 2d8 as well. But even that might be limited to only being able to add 5 of those d8s, so I'm torn on how this works with crits.
I don't know if the language had been updated but it's now clear that the spell's extra d8s and natural d8s are separate, so more dice to roll!
When you cast this spell, the maximum number of these d8s YOU CAN ADD to the spell’s damage equals your spellcasting ability modifier.
This with Empowered Spell could be very interesting.
All damage dice are doubled when you score a critical hit. That's explicitly stated in the rules for critical hits.
The limit that the spell imposes on how many extra dice can be added from the "exploding" effect has no effect on critical hit calculations, which happen afterward.
If you just read this entry in the Wild Magic surge table:
"29-32: The next time you cast a spell that deals damage within the next minute, don't roll the spell's damage dice for the damage. Instead use the highest number possible for each damage die."
and got excited... I regret to inform you that this doesn't have the interaction you want with this cantrip. Sorcerous Burst bonus damage only goes off when you roll an 8 on the damage die, not when you get an 8 without rolling. I guess the designers figured 56 damage from a cantrip at level 5 might be a wee bit overpowered.
For people wondering.
It says Add, as in addition.
Therefore,
"Cantrip Upgrade. The damage increases by 1d8 when you reach levels 5 (2d8), 11 (3d8), and 17 (4d8)."
This is your base dice
So at 17 you have a base of 4d8
And if you roll a 8, you get to roll additional dice up to your spellcasting modifier
example, charisma +5, you roll base dice at 17 wich is four dice, you get four rolls of 8, therefore you get to roll 4 more dice, lets say you get four more 8's, you will, only get 1more dice roll, because slots 0 +4 = 4/5 slots available
Slots available 4/5 +4 ≠ 8/5 as stated earlier we only can get Maximum of extra rolls according to our spellcasting modifier wich is +5 in our example
Thus 4 + (4-x) = 5/5 as x is how many over the limit we will go
So at 20 charisma +5 modifier, we get a maximum of 9d8 if you are lucky
If you crit that will still be a maximum of 13d8 from a single cast as only base dice uppgrades from crits as the rest of the modifier based dice is only *Potential* dice, they dont exist unless you roll 8 on your base dice
Using empowered spell properly is pretty broken though 😉
Man this one gets me thinking... Let's break this down step by step
Step-by-Step Breakdown:
Character level: 11 (spell deals 3d8 damage)
Spellcasting ability modifier: +4
We make a critical hit
Spell First - Crit Second
You first go through the motion of determening the damage as normal and in the end pick up all the dice, roll them again, and add them together.
Initial roll 3d8: 8, 3, 5. So we add one extra d8 and roll another 8 for yet another d8 and so on. The maximum you could get with a modifeier of +4 is ( 3d8 + 1d8 + 1d8 + 1d8 + 1d8 ) * 2 = 14d8 but you need to be very lucky.
Personal Raging:👍
You have a theoretical maximum of 14d8 but a very low chance of actually getting it. I think you can make a very good statement that this is the result according to RAW. Plus it is very easily explained and executed at the table: "Make everything as the spell describes, then at the end double the dice".
On the other hand, when you get a crit and you have the dice at hand, who does not want to pick up all 6d8 and throw them? 🤔
Double all Dice as you Roll Them
Let us roll the 6d8 and say we get: 8, 3, 5, 8, 2, 1. For each 8 we can add another d8, In this case we have two of them so we can add 2d8 as per the spells description. Lets see how the critical hit affects this.
Do what the Spell Describes
For the initial roll double the dice for the crit. But the RAW for the spell is add 1d8 for every 8, ignore the crit and add only 1d8 for every 8 you rolled.
Because our initial roll had two 8 in it we add 2d8 as per the spell description. Lets say the result is 8, 2. We rolled one additional 8 so we add one additional d8.
In this example we rolled for a total of 6d8 + 2d8 + 1d8 = 9d8. The maximum that is possible would be 10d8.
Personal Rating: 🤷♂️
This one is wired... your chances of adding additional dice is increased by the inital round of rolling but it's not happening on the added dice? The crit clearly states that you "Roll all the the attack's damage dice twice". But on the other hand, the RAW of the spell also clearly states for each 8 roll another (1)d8. Do with it what you will, it's not my favorite.
We Double all Dice as we Roll Them ... But What Now?
We had two 8 in the initial roll so the spell tells us to add 2d8, because it is a crit we double them and add 4d8. But What happens if we roll another 8, can we add more dice to the damage roll? There are two answers.
No you can't: The spell clearly states a maximum of 4d8 extra, tough luck.
Lets take another look at the RAW of the spell: "[...] the maximum number of these d8s you can add to the spell’s damage equals your spellcasting ability modifier." With a Modifier of +4 this means a maximum of 4d8 for a total of 6d8 + 4d8 = 10d8.
Personal Rating: 👎
I simply don't like it. The crit rules allow you to change one part of the spell (your chances of adding additional dice got doubled) but oh no, the other part where you can add a maximum of 4d8 is sacret? Just pick one or the other. If you really think this is correct consider using Interpretation-A instead.
Ps.: I guess the same reasoning that a crit either changes some or no parts of the spell, also applies to the last outcome 🤔 Maybe I should change it from meh to me don't like it.
Yes you can: The dice added from the crit are seperate from the spell.
Yes the spell states you can add up to a maximum of 4d8, but all of those d8 get doubled as you roll them. So effectively for every 8 we roll we can add 2d8 for a theoretical maximum of 14d8.
Personal Rating: 💥
Not as simple as the first interpretation but has the biggest damage potential. Your maximum is 14d8 with the best chance to actually get it, the players will like it. For every d8 the spell tells you to roll, roll two.
tl;dr - In my opinion only two of the four options are viable: