Question regarding the Insightful Fighting ability:
As a bonus action, you can make an Insight check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Deception check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it for 1 minute or until you use this feature against a different target.
So, let's say, round one...I try to gain insight on target A's fighting, and I fail the roll. When round two starts, can I try again to gain insight on target A or is that not possible? The wording doesn't really make that clear.
As well, on a related question... Does this work on ranged attacks? The sneak attack feature works on ranged attacks, so can I assume so does the Insightful Fighting ability?
You can do it on someone else, but not to the same person, you can't make the sneak attack on them because the disadvantage only ends when you use it on someone else.
Here's how I'm interpreting this feature... Take the example of a boxing or mma (or any other fighting matchup); round one is usually the feeling out stage so let's say you fail the insight fighting check. Round two, you try again...still fail. Round three, you try again; fail. By round four, successful check; you realize, oh wait, when he goes for that hay-maker right hand, he drops his left...there's my opening. And after getting a hard damaging hit, the target figure out what they need to do to cover that. So, round five; naturally try again...fail. Round six; try again, and this time success;...you realize when they cover up the left their right side is exposed to body shots. And so on and so forth.
Even if you do that, you maintain the Disadvantage from failing, this makes you more likely to waste your attack. To get rid of the disadvantage you need to use the ability on someone else, but I think you can do it the way you said though.
But is the disadvantage from failing the check? The way I'm reading it...
As a bonus action, you can make an Insight check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Deception check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it for 1 minute or until you use this feature against a different target.
I don't think the advantage/disadvantage is from the roll, but rather other circumstances. For example, if the inquisitive rogue is stuck in an area where someone had casted fog cloud or some such thing. You're at disadvantage, therefore you just can't plain use insightful fighting until a minute has passed (or switch to try on another target). In that example, I guess it would take that amount of time in order for the rogue to figure out the environment and "see" the target in question. Alternatively, if the rogue in question was knocked down and prone prior hand, they can't use the insightful fighting feature since they would be at disadvantage. It just doesn't read that the disadvantage comes from failing the actual check. That failing the check is just that, failing the check. Next turn, you just try again (if you want).
I just read my copy of Xanathar's guide, it specifies that when you fail you have disadvantage on attack rolls against that target for one minute (or until you use insightful fighting on someone else) it also says that you can't make the sneak attack if you have disadvantage, this means you need to use it on someone else or wait a minute. And yes you do get disadvantage from the check (I don't think that you copied it down right).
This is the way its worded from the Xanathar guide on this site:
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.
This benefit lasts for 1 minute or until you successfully use this feature against a different target.
Succeeding or failing the check is not connected to you having advantage or disadvantage, at least from the wording on this site. If anything, it simply says you get to use your sneak attack even if you don't have the advantage on them. Which I interpret as, you're basically sneak attacking someone face to face, where normally, that would not be allowed to do so as sneak attack has its own set of rules.
I'm hoping Jeremy Crawford can answer my tweet because I really want to get some sort of clarification on it before I start trying to play this.
Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
Insightful Fighting Feature:
You spend a Bonus Action against a target you can see and is not incapacitated.
You make a Insight (Wis) vs the targets Deception (Cha).
If you succeed for 1 minute you get Sneak Attack against the target even if you do not have Advantage on the roll. You don't get Sneak Attack if you have DisAdvantance on the attack roll. The benefit is gone if you successfully use this feature on a different target.
The feature only requires Line of Sight and the target isn't incapacitated, so it can be used at any range. If you fail to make a Insight (Wis) vs the targets Deception (Cha), nothing in the description stops you from making the same check next turn and keep making checks until you succeed. If you have successfully used it on Target 1, and you fail to use it on Target 2, then you keep the benefit on Target 1.
I just read my copy of Xanathar's guide, it specifies that when you fail you have disadvantage on attack rolls against that target for one minute (or until you use insightful fighting on someone else)...
I'm late to the party . But i also have xanthars open in front of me and no where do i see that on a fail that means you get disadvantage.
I know i'm late to this convo. But i dont' want others reading this and thinking its true. so insight away my fellow inquisitors.
I don't think a failed role gives you disadvantage. The disadvantage part is that if you have disadvantage for a different reason this class feature no longer allows you to use sneak attack
I don't think a failed role gives you disadvantage. The disadvantage part is that if you have disadvantage for a different reason this class feature no longer allows you to use sneak attack
This. There is no disadvantage for failing an Insightful roll. The implication is that you don’t get your insightful sneak for the same reason you wouldn’t get a normal sneak - if the attack has disadvantage.
I just DM'd a game with someone using this and so basically they use it and have sneak attack forever (1 min in combat might as well be) or until they use it again. They got a 28 versus a 24 (nat 20 with +4 on a CR 13 creature).
I just DM'd a game with someone using this and so basically they use it and have sneak attack forever (1 min in combat might as well be) or until they use it again. They got a 28 versus a 24 (nat 20 with +4 on a CR 13 creature).
There is no range requirement or need for the target to see the player or be in combat? E.g a drow in darkness can use it on a human 120ft away and can get "permanent*" sneak attack on someone not currently aware of him?
There is no range requirement or need for the target to see the player or be in combat? E.g a drow in darkness can use it on a human 120ft away and can get "permanent*" sneak attack on someone not currently aware of him?
Have to be able to see them, lasts 1 minute, can only target one person at a time, and can't have disadvantage on the attack.
Rogues should almost always be able to get their sneak attack bonus. On the rare occasion that they don't get their bonus, a higher level rogue will likely forego their actions for the round in order to ensure they will be able to get the bonus next round.
Question regarding the Insightful Fighting ability:
As a bonus action, you can make an Insight check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Deception check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it for 1 minute or until you use this feature against a different target.
So, let's say, round one...I try to gain insight on target A's fighting, and I fail the roll. When round two starts, can I try again to gain insight on target A or is that not possible? The wording doesn't really make that clear.
As well, on a related question... Does this work on ranged attacks? The sneak attack feature works on ranged attacks, so can I assume so does the Insightful Fighting ability?
If you weren't able to try again, or it didn't work on ranged attacks, the rules would say so.
I think the ranged attacks is why it says another target at the end of description. I cannot see many rogues hitting to many opponents in melee range.
You can do it on someone else, but not to the same person, you can't make the sneak attack on them because the disadvantage only ends when you use it on someone else.
Here's how I'm interpreting this feature... Take the example of a boxing or mma (or any other fighting matchup); round one is usually the feeling out stage so let's say you fail the insight fighting check. Round two, you try again...still fail. Round three, you try again; fail. By round four, successful check; you realize, oh wait, when he goes for that hay-maker right hand, he drops his left...there's my opening. And after getting a hard damaging hit, the target figure out what they need to do to cover that. So, round five; naturally try again...fail. Round six; try again, and this time success;...you realize when they cover up the left their right side is exposed to body shots. And so on and so forth.
Am I wrong in thinking about it this way?
Even if you do that, you maintain the Disadvantage from failing, this makes you more likely to waste your attack. To get rid of the disadvantage you need to use the ability on someone else, but I think you can do it the way you said though.
But is the disadvantage from failing the check? The way I'm reading it...
As a bonus action, you can make an Insight check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Deception check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it for 1 minute or until you use this feature against a different target.
I don't think the advantage/disadvantage is from the roll, but rather other circumstances. For example, if the inquisitive rogue is stuck in an area where someone had casted fog cloud or some such thing. You're at disadvantage, therefore you just can't plain use insightful fighting until a minute has passed (or switch to try on another target). In that example, I guess it would take that amount of time in order for the rogue to figure out the environment and "see" the target in question. Alternatively, if the rogue in question was knocked down and prone prior hand, they can't use the insightful fighting feature since they would be at disadvantage. It just doesn't read that the disadvantage comes from failing the actual check. That failing the check is just that, failing the check. Next turn, you just try again (if you want).
I just read my copy of Xanathar's guide, it specifies that when you fail you have disadvantage on attack rolls against that target for one minute (or until you use insightful fighting on someone else) it also says that you can't make the sneak attack if you have disadvantage, this means you need to use it on someone else or wait a minute. And yes you do get disadvantage from the check (I don't think that you copied it down right).
This is the way its worded from the Xanathar guide on this site:
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.
This benefit lasts for 1 minute or until you successfully use this feature against a different target.
Succeeding or failing the check is not connected to you having advantage or disadvantage, at least from the wording on this site. If anything, it simply says you get to use your sneak attack even if you don't have the advantage on them. Which I interpret as, you're basically sneak attacking someone face to face, where normally, that would not be allowed to do so as sneak attack has its own set of rules.
I'm hoping Jeremy Crawford can answer my tweet because I really want to get some sort of clarification on it before I start trying to play this.
I think the feature is pretty clear.
Sneak Attack Feature
Insightful Fighting Feature:
The feature only requires Line of Sight and the target isn't incapacitated, so it can be used at any range.
If you fail to make a Insight (Wis) vs the targets Deception (Cha), nothing in the description stops you from making the same check next turn and keep making checks until you succeed.
If you have successfully used it on Target 1, and you fail to use it on Target 2, then you keep the benefit on Target 1.
Cool beans, I can work with that!
I'm late to the party . But i also have xanthars open in front of me and no where do i see that on a fail that means you get disadvantage.
I know i'm late to this convo. But i dont' want others reading this and thinking its true. so insight away my fellow inquisitors.
Rev. 6:8
I don't think a failed role gives you disadvantage. The disadvantage part is that if you have disadvantage for a different reason this class feature no longer allows you to use sneak attack
This. There is no disadvantage for failing an Insightful roll. The implication is that you don’t get your insightful sneak for the same reason you wouldn’t get a normal sneak - if the attack has disadvantage.
I just DM'd a game with someone using this and so basically they use it and have sneak attack forever (1 min in combat might as well be) or until they use it again. They got a 28 versus a 24 (nat 20 with +4 on a CR 13 creature).
Yep. That’s the point of the class 🙂
There is no range requirement or need for the target to see the player or be in combat? E.g a drow in darkness can use it on a human 120ft away and can get "permanent*" sneak attack on someone not currently aware of him?
Have to be able to see them, lasts 1 minute, can only target one person at a time, and can't have disadvantage on the attack.
Rogues should almost always be able to get their sneak attack bonus. On the rare occasion that they don't get their bonus, a higher level rogue will likely forego their actions for the round in order to ensure they will be able to get the bonus next round.
Would this work against a dragon that is in the air, about 150 feet away?