This is fair but I think maybe a little too simplistic?
I own the PHB and have essentially paid for the right to use that content to play D&D. I understand that DDB is a new product that needs to be paid for and am willing to pay some money for that. But what needs to be paid for is the space on the server and the cost of keeping things running, etc.
They have already coded the content for the PHB and me using it causes no extra strain or cost to them, they just need to flip a switch.
They are releasing the SRD content etc. for free because Wizard's has released it for free, coding that cost money too; therefore I don't think it is unreasonable for people to expect that they should only have to pay for other content once for the privilege to use it on DDB. We have given Wizards money for the privilege to use that content.
Keep in mind that my preference is to pay the subscription cost. If I can split the cost with my gaming group and obtain a reasonable number of character slots then that is a fair, cost effective way for me to enjoy this product.
However, if all that gets me is 10 characters who we can build using SRD content (etc.) and without buying all the books I already own (which is all of them) even at a discounted price; that is prohibitively expensive and a deal breaker for me personally. It is why I don't use Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds.
Maybe I am being unreasonable and maybe at the end of the day this product just isn't meant to be for people like me. That sucks, but if that is the only business model that makes this worthwhile for Curse so be it. I will have to stick to pen and paper (which is still great).
I am still holding out for the full announcement and the hopes that I will be pleasantly surprised...
i skimmed though some of this tread and the one I like the most was linking it to my amazon prime account. if i could link it to my prime account for then i would be more willing to buy digital books as then they would always be on my prime account and vice versa. I usually buy my books on amazon, if they could even add a extra fee to get the digital along with the physical book when you buy.
This is fair but I think maybe a little too simplistic?
I own the PHB and have essentially paid for the right to use that content to play D&D. I understand that DDB is a new product that needs to be paid for and am willing to pay some money for that. But what needs to be paid for is the space on the server and the cost of keeping things running, etc.
They have already coded the content for the PHB and me using it causes no extra strain or cost to them, they just need to flip a switch.
And you are more than welcome to contact WotC to seek licensing permission, take your PHB and other purchased materials, and create your own online tool to share with your friends when you play Dnd. My guess is that you won't do that because it is incredibly cost prohibitive, would take a ridiculously long amount of time to initialize, and I don't get the impresison from WotC that they easily give out licensing to individuals.
Even if you ignored the licensing part of it and just created your own tool from the ground up (for your own private use, of course), the sheer amount of time it would take to code and input all the data is extremely prohibitive. If, somehow, using a digital copy that you can copy and paste from, making sure you paste everything into the right portion of the code so that the data integrates correctly with everything else is still an incredibly difficult task.
Now, imagine the cost of hosting the server space to store all of that data along with all of the separate user accounts and all the content those users create. It's not as expensive as printing, binding, and distribution, but it's no mere drop in the bucket, either.
They are releasing the SRD content etc. for free because Wizard's has released it for free, coding that cost money too; therefore I don't think it is unreasonable for people to expect that they should only have to pay for other content once for the privilege to use it on DDB. We have given Wizards money for the privilege to use that content.
I think you are confusing Curse with WotC here. You giving WotC money to buy a book in no way gets any money to Curse for DDB. Again, see my comment above about doing all of the work to implement this on your own. Otherwise, I see no problem with paying Curse to use the tool set they have created. While some people might not like how much it costs, I never here people genuinely complain about having to pay at least something to have an electrician, plumber, doctor, or anyone else who has specific skills and training for a job we can't or won't do for ourselves. Why shouldn't we pay programmers?
Having free content is not just out of the kindness of their hearts. It's also a great business plan. 1, if there's this much outcry from people about having to pay for content that actually costs money, imagine the chaos if DDB charged for access to free content. 2, offering a free tier allows for a low/no stakes entry point. Come in, see what everything is all about. If you like it, wonderful. If you want more, great, here's how much it'll cost. If you hate it, we're sorry and hope we can improve this to better suit your needs, but at least you didn't have to give us money to find that out.
Keep in mind that my preference is to pay the subscription cost. If I can split the cost with my gaming group and obtain a reasonable number of character slots then that is a fair, cost effective way for me to enjoy this product.
However, if all that gets me is 10 characters who we can build using SRD content (etc.) and without buying all the books I already own (which is all of them) even at a discounted price; that is prohibitively expensive and a deal breaker for me personally. It is why I don't use Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds.
I'm not sure why you would only have 10 characters. To use DDB without paying anything, you'd have 6 characters per account. If you're only paying subscription costs, each subscribed account would have unlimited characters, and the free accounts would still have 6 characters. If you're looking at getting the Master tier subscription to share purchased content, you would have 12 character slots that could use your purchased content. If anyone else has a subscription, however, they wouldn't take up one of those 12 slots. Without knowing how much the sourcebook content costs, I'd be hard pressed to say it'll be prohibitively expensive. Especially given that there will be options to buy specific parts of books instead of having to buy the whole thing if you only want a couple items from it, there's no real way to estimate what it'll cost until they release pricing information.
Maybe I am being unreasonable and maybe at the end of the day this product just isn't meant to be for people like me. That sucks, but if that is the only business model that makes this worthwhile for Curse so be it. I will have to stick to pen and paper (which is still great).
I am still holding out for the full announcement and the hopes that I will be pleasantly surprised...
I'm waiting for the announcement, too. Hopefully the price point is within my (and your) means. This is a wonderful tool set so far, and I hope I'll be able to use it fully when it launches.
I genuinely don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. You may have bought the books already. You may even have bought the Fantasy Grounds packages. That entitles you to exactly nothing from Curse. Why? Because Curse didn't publish those. There is absolutely no tie, there. It's not even the same as me buying the paperback of Storm Front (Dresden, book 1) and now wanting the hardcover -- those are both published by the same company, AFAIK.
Curse is building a digital platform. That's their business. They could use all the content they've currently made available (I think, not a lawyer) without talking to WotC at all. If you think you can do a better job, knock yourself out. They'd still have all the costs associated with it and, presumably, recognize that only that content, for free, isn't a sustainable business. Very, very few people would be willing to pay for the extra character slots to use only the basic rules.
So, what do they do? They go to WotC and negotiate a license deal. Curse can sell the content at X rate, which they mark up to Y, to cover their costs and turn a profit (because profit is the point of business). Curse can't give you any non-open content, legally, without paying WotC for it. That's not their product. Curse's product is the digital platform. The content is there to help power it, but they have to pay for it, too. They just think they can be successful using something akin to the mobile "freemium" model. They just also have to pay WotC a cut before they can even put the money towards paying their developers, whereas Clash of Clans gets to put it all towards recouping previous investments (sans Apple's cut, which is going to be a lot smaller than the WotC license).
So, really, you aren't asking Curse to allow you to have content for free. You're asking them to pay WotC, on your behalf, to let you use the content online. Even if WotC said, "Sure, if you can verify they own the books, go for it," you're asking them to now implement some system to ensure licensing compliance. I guess you could go to WotC and ask for a voucher, putting the burden on them, but WotC isn't Curse. Why would they issue a voucher?
Assuming WotC and Curse have an even split of the income (unlikely), they still don't have the authority to wave Curse's right to their cut. So, now you're asking WotC to pay Curse on your behalf. Or, you're asking Curse to take a loss. And, really, since Curse needs to be able to actually pay their staff, etc. what you're actually asking is that the rest of us pay for your access to the service. Or... since the vast, vast majority of folks who are going to look at this service in the next couple years are almost guaranteed to be in the same boat (have bought the physical books), you're pushing the cost for everyone onto a very small segment of folks who are willing to use the service as their sole source of content. A $150 price tag for each book is a great way to kill the service.
If you want the content in this format, pay for the content in this format. It's entirely possible that the final price for that product will exceed your willingness/ability to pay. If enough people fall into that category, Curse will either shut down DDB or find a way to lower the price. If you're the exception, they'll carry on -- or maybe even raise the prices a bit until they feel like they have optimal ROI. Either way, it's not going to be any sort of moral argument that moves the needle. It'll be market forces and that's exactly how it should be. I swear, Thomas Sowell should be required reading in high school civics.
A determined browser search would inevitably yield results. As with all things quality PDFs of all the books are most likely out there for free download (illegal is likely, but looks at some stats on pirated movies and then say you think it will stop people), along with many programs to track character progress and implement homebrew. The fact is that keeping it free will help the site and the people using it more that a cost. Once it costs money it will turn away a lot of people. Thus defeating the point of one site to do it all and be the hub everyone visits, to just another site with some neat stuff. There's already more of those than anyone could need. But with a community of players, each knowing different sources of content, they will vastly improve games everywhere by having one site they can compile and share that information on. That site being WotC controlled is a bonus.
It is less about being unable to grasp how economics work and more trying to come to terms with the reality that a tool we have craved for so long is going to be (more than likely) prohibitively expensive.
As you have more than likely gathered based on this thread many people are probably not going to pay what they are asking to use DDB. Many will (some begrudgingly and many happily) and likely Curse will see a profit. End of the day it is too bad so sad for the folks who can't justify (or can't afford) the asking price.
The angry minority who seem unable to grasp why Curse is charging us to unlock the privilege to use the full gambit of phb classes and races are the same be folk who haven't purchased content on Fantasy Grounds or Roll20. Those services have survived and are profitable, just as DDB will.
My own desire was to see a price point similar to the digital 4e tools. Obviously Curse has created a much better tool set with way better features, however the preliminary whispers make it seem like the price is going to be much higher. That is where my own frustration lies.
I believe we paid $10 CAD a month for unlimited character slots with the 4e tools. So I don't by any means expect these tools to be free. I was simply expecting a better price point than Fantasy Grounds.
My own desire was to see a price point similar to the digital 4e tools. Obviously Curse has created a much better tool set with way better features, however the preliminary whispers make it seem like the price is going to be much higher. That is where my own frustration lies.
Please note that there has been zero official communication on price points for purchase & subscription.
The preliminary whispers you refer to are all from people making assumptions or rather outright guessing.
And herin lies the problem. A lot of people are craving digital rulebooks. You seem to be the only avenue to get them legally. There are a lot of people anxiously awaiting what the price point for rules is going to be. The character manager is what is it. I don't expect that to be free. But the rulebooks will be one static price (so I hope.) I don't think anyone currently posting on this forum is currently patiently waiting for your rule books to come out before they turn around and buy a Player's Handbook. All of us have already bought the rules. So, I think we're all a little price conscious about buying them again.
As you have more than likely gathered based on this thread many people are probably not going to pay what they are asking to use DDB. Many will (some begrudgingly and many happily) and likely Curse will see a profit. End of the day it is too bad so sad for the folks who can't justify (or can't afford) the asking price.
Fair enough. I get that some folks want a low price point. I was actually specifically addressing those who want a freebie or something close to it.
I'm actually in a "wait and see" mode, myself. I actually have my needs met with existing tools. My desire is to have every pulled together into one package and made very user friendly. Since I still have players who seem determined to use print-outs and pencil, my interest starts with the campaign manager, with an initiative tracker close behind (or is it the other way around?). The character manager would mainly be there in the hopes that I could get my players to put their characters somewhere I could find them and to feed into the initiative tracker organically.
I hadn't actually had any interest in a Compendium-type resource until playing with the DDB beta. I like what I see, though -- especially if I can purchase the adventures via DDB and have a way to create my own (I usually home brew). I'd also love to have core setting material as part of DDB, so that I can totally leave my books at home. Since I refuse to use the Realms -- I either use Eberron or home brew -- that means that either other settings would have to be released and/or the campaign manager needs to be able to support a full home brew setting reference.
Regardless, I might be okay with core books plus published adventures, so long as I continue to run published adventures -- which won't be long if they continue to use the Realms. Unless I get to leave all my books on the shelf, though, I'm going to be pretty hesitant to pay much for DDB, including one-off purchases of content. If there's a super-good deal on launch (say, $30 or $40 for the core rules), I'm in at least that much. If Curse of Strahd (what I'm currently running) is available, it's very likely, at $60 (total), as an investment in my next six months of play.
Not sure if it's been announced anywhere on here yet, but this article just got linked by the DDB twitter. It has some more information regarding price in it.
I have to say, while I'm pleased that the core books will be bundled and sold together for a minimal-ish cost, there a few things not mentioned that would be really good to see. The most pertinent of which is a DISCOUNT ON ONE TIME CONTENT FEES FOR PEOPLE WITH SUBSCRIPTIONS. It doesn't need to be a huge discount, but that would go a long way toward easing the nerves of long time players who have already sunk a bunch of money into this game. I know the price for books and modules is not nearly as expensive as a physical copy which is VERY good, but for the hardcore DMs, they'll still be sinking in cash to get all the digital books and a subscription as well as their physical copies. It's going to add up really fast.
"The “Hero Tier” subscription, for $3/month, will be able to make unlimited characters and use homebrew content from other users. For $6/month, the “Master Tier” subscription unlocks the ability to share paid content with up to 12 other players across all of their games, as mentioned above. That paid content includes rule supplements, such as Volo’s Guide to Monsters, which will cost a fixed, one-time price of $30. Adventure modules, such as Curse of Strahd, will cost $25 (though special Founders’ Pricing on the first seven days after launch will instead be $20). Free accounts can purchase these supplements as well, and no content will be lost if your paid subscription lapses."
Not sure if it's been announced anywhere on here yet, but this article just got linked by the DDB twitter. It has some more information regarding price in it.
I have to say, while I'm pleased that the core books will be bundled and sold together for a minimal-ish cost, there a few things not mentioned that would be really good to see. The most pertinent of which is a DISCOUNT ON ONE TIME CONTENT FEES FOR PEOPLE WITH SUBSCRIPTIONS. It doesn't need to be a huge discount, but that would go a long way toward easing the nerves of long time players who have already sunk a bunch of money into this game. I know the price for books and modules is not nearly as expensive as a physical copy which is VERY good, but for the hardcore DMs, they'll still be sinking in cash to get all the digital books and a subscription as well as their physical copies. It's going to add up really fast.
$30 per core rulebook is kind of steep if you already had to pay $50 for it...
Not sure if it's been announced anywhere on here yet, but this article just got linked by the DDB twitter. It has some more information regarding price in it.
I have to say, while I'm pleased that the core books will be bundled and sold together for a minimal-ish cost, there a few things not mentioned that would be really good to see. The most pertinent of which is a DISCOUNT ON ONE TIME CONTENT FEES FOR PEOPLE WITH SUBSCRIPTIONS. It doesn't need to be a huge discount, but that would go a long way toward easing the nerves of long time players who have already sunk a bunch of money into this game. I know the price for books and modules is not nearly as expensive as a physical copy which is VERY good, but for the hardcore DMs, they'll still be sinking in cash to get all the digital books and a subscription as well as their physical copies. It's going to add up really fast.
$30 per core rulebook is kind of steep if you already had to pay $50 for it...
Admittedly, I may have misinterpreted this line to mean that all three core books would be bundled together for 20$ rather than 20$ each but the core ones will be discounted. I am kind of hoping the way I read it was correct, because that would be pretty good. But I have a feeling that upon rereading, I was wrong in the first place. "Bradford notes that when D&D Beyond launches, the three core game books — the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual — will be on sale for $19.99."
A lot of the people who have been burned in the past by digital copies were saying that they had to pay full price again (50$) to get the content on Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds. So yeah, while 30$ is still kind of steep if you have the physical copies already, it is not full price which was what a lot of people were concerned about. And for new players, or getting books you don't have physical copies of, 30$ seems pretty freaking reasonable. Though this doesn't solve the problem of duplicating a physical library onto DDB, I think anyone who thought there was going to be an easy way to do that was lying to themselves at least for books that are already released.
Moving forward I am strongly in the camp of having discount or redemption codes for DDB in physical copies of the books. But retroactively implementing that was never going to be realistically possible, as much as we all hoped.
"The “Hero Tier” subscription, for $3/month, will be able to make unlimited characters and use homebrew content from other users. For $6/month, the “Master Tier” subscription unlocks the ability to share paid content with up to 12 other players across all of their games, as mentioned above. That paid content includes rule supplements, such as Volo’s Guide to Monsters, which will cost a fixed, one-time price of $30. Adventure modules, such as Curse of Strahd, will cost $25 (though special Founders’ Pricing on the first seven days after launch will instead be $20). Free accounts can purchase these supplements as well, and no content will be lost if your paid subscription lapses."
Where did you find subscription pricing information? Just wondering what the source was. These seem like reasonable prices for what your get with each subscription tier.
I have to say, while I'm pleased that the core books will be bundled and sold together for a minimal-ish cost, there a few things not mentioned that would be really good to see. The most pertinent of which is a DISCOUNT ON ONE TIME CONTENT FEES FOR PEOPLE WITH SUBSCRIPTIONS.
Dang. I hadn't really thought about that (dunno why, it's kinda obvious). I get where they don't want to get a bunch of people who pay for one month of service, buy all the books cheap, then go away. It would be really great, though, if folks who did something like buy an annual subscription or had been ongoing subscribers for a year+ got a discount on digital books.
I'll be honest, the standard price for the books is pretty much at the upper end of what I was thinking (i.e. Amazon pricing). With the early-adopter cost, I'll probably jump on for CoS and core rules. $80 isn't a horrible investment. The subscription probably hinges on two things:
1) The ability to get custom content, including races and classes, into the character manager. I think all but one PC in my group is using something non-standard. Two are using classes from Unearthed Arcana (next to most recent Favored Soul and revised Ranger). The others are just using home brew feats or spells, but those are important to the characters.
2) Getting my players to buy into using the character manager for their characters. I've already checked, and there is no one in the group even remotely interested in bringing their iPad to the table for their character sheet, so there needs to be a printable PDF at go-live.
I don't know that what Curse is asking is at all unreasonable for the product. I just need to decide whether I'm the target customer. Sorry for the train-of-thought posting.
"The “Hero Tier” subscription, for $3/month, will be able to make unlimited characters and use homebrew content from other users. For $6/month, the “Master Tier” subscription unlocks the ability to share paid content with up to 12 other players across all of their games, as mentioned above. That paid content includes rule supplements, such as Volo’s Guide to Monsters, which will cost a fixed, one-time price of $30. Adventure modules, such as Curse of Strahd, will cost $25 (though special Founders’ Pricing on the first seven days after launch will instead be $20). Free accounts can purchase these supplements as well, and no content will be lost if your paid subscription lapses."
Where did you find subscription pricing information? Just wondering what the source was. These seem like reasonable prices for what your get with each subscription tier.
For me and mine Beyond would need to be a monthly subscription $10-15, with access to all 5e material, and tools of equal to or superior in quality to third party applications and services.
$30 per core rulebook is kind of steep if you already had to pay $50 for it...
People keep saying that. I don't think it makes any sense though.
I went into a game shop and bought my 5th edition books when they came out... and if I head into a game shop to pick up another copy, or I decide to shop on Amazon, or I buy some digital version like Fantasy Grounds or Roll20, the price is never affected by me already owning a copy - so why should that be any different for D&D Beyond?
$30 per core rule-book is, matter of fact, not even kind of steep - it's among the cheapest prices for said books available.
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This is fair but I think maybe a little too simplistic?
I own the PHB and have essentially paid for the right to use that content to play D&D. I understand that DDB is a new product that needs to be paid for and am willing to pay some money for that. But what needs to be paid for is the space on the server and the cost of keeping things running, etc.
They have already coded the content for the PHB and me using it causes no extra strain or cost to them, they just need to flip a switch.
They are releasing the SRD content etc. for free because Wizard's has released it for free, coding that cost money too; therefore I don't think it is unreasonable for people to expect that they should only have to pay for other content once for the privilege to use it on DDB. We have given Wizards money for the privilege to use that content.
Keep in mind that my preference is to pay the subscription cost. If I can split the cost with my gaming group and obtain a reasonable number of character slots then that is a fair, cost effective way for me to enjoy this product.
However, if all that gets me is 10 characters who we can build using SRD content (etc.) and without buying all the books I already own (which is all of them) even at a discounted price; that is prohibitively expensive and a deal breaker for me personally. It is why I don't use Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds.
Maybe I am being unreasonable and maybe at the end of the day this product just isn't meant to be for people like me. That sucks, but if that is the only business model that makes this worthwhile for Curse so be it. I will have to stick to pen and paper (which is still great).
I am still holding out for the full announcement and the hopes that I will be pleasantly surprised...
i skimmed though some of this tread and the one I like the most was linking it to my amazon prime account. if i could link it to my prime account for then i would be more willing to buy digital books as then they would always be on my prime account and vice versa. I usually buy my books on amazon, if they could even add a extra fee to get the digital along with the physical book when you buy.
I think you are confusing Curse with WotC here. You giving WotC money to buy a book in no way gets any money to Curse for DDB. Again, see my comment above about doing all of the work to implement this on your own. Otherwise, I see no problem with paying Curse to use the tool set they have created. While some people might not like how much it costs, I never here people genuinely complain about having to pay at least something to have an electrician, plumber, doctor, or anyone else who has specific skills and training for a job we can't or won't do for ourselves. Why shouldn't we pay programmers?
Having free content is not just out of the kindness of their hearts. It's also a great business plan. 1, if there's this much outcry from people about having to pay for content that actually costs money, imagine the chaos if DDB charged for access to free content. 2, offering a free tier allows for a low/no stakes entry point. Come in, see what everything is all about. If you like it, wonderful. If you want more, great, here's how much it'll cost. If you hate it, we're sorry and hope we can improve this to better suit your needs, but at least you didn't have to give us money to find that out.
I'm not sure why you would only have 10 characters. To use DDB without paying anything, you'd have 6 characters per account. If you're only paying subscription costs, each subscribed account would have unlimited characters, and the free accounts would still have 6 characters. If you're looking at getting the Master tier subscription to share purchased content, you would have 12 character slots that could use your purchased content. If anyone else has a subscription, however, they wouldn't take up one of those 12 slots. Without knowing how much the sourcebook content costs, I'd be hard pressed to say it'll be prohibitively expensive. Especially given that there will be options to buy specific parts of books instead of having to buy the whole thing if you only want a couple items from it, there's no real way to estimate what it'll cost until they release pricing information.
I'm waiting for the announcement, too. Hopefully the price point is within my (and your) means. This is a wonderful tool set so far, and I hope I'll be able to use it fully when it launches.
I genuinely don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. You may have bought the books already. You may even have bought the Fantasy Grounds packages. That entitles you to exactly nothing from Curse. Why? Because Curse didn't publish those. There is absolutely no tie, there. It's not even the same as me buying the paperback of Storm Front (Dresden, book 1) and now wanting the hardcover -- those are both published by the same company, AFAIK.
Curse is building a digital platform. That's their business. They could use all the content they've currently made available (I think, not a lawyer) without talking to WotC at all. If you think you can do a better job, knock yourself out. They'd still have all the costs associated with it and, presumably, recognize that only that content, for free, isn't a sustainable business. Very, very few people would be willing to pay for the extra character slots to use only the basic rules.
So, what do they do? They go to WotC and negotiate a license deal. Curse can sell the content at X rate, which they mark up to Y, to cover their costs and turn a profit (because profit is the point of business). Curse can't give you any non-open content, legally, without paying WotC for it. That's not their product. Curse's product is the digital platform. The content is there to help power it, but they have to pay for it, too. They just think they can be successful using something akin to the mobile "freemium" model. They just also have to pay WotC a cut before they can even put the money towards paying their developers, whereas Clash of Clans gets to put it all towards recouping previous investments (sans Apple's cut, which is going to be a lot smaller than the WotC license).
So, really, you aren't asking Curse to allow you to have content for free. You're asking them to pay WotC, on your behalf, to let you use the content online. Even if WotC said, "Sure, if you can verify they own the books, go for it," you're asking them to now implement some system to ensure licensing compliance. I guess you could go to WotC and ask for a voucher, putting the burden on them, but WotC isn't Curse. Why would they issue a voucher?
Assuming WotC and Curse have an even split of the income (unlikely), they still don't have the authority to wave Curse's right to their cut. So, now you're asking WotC to pay Curse on your behalf. Or, you're asking Curse to take a loss. And, really, since Curse needs to be able to actually pay their staff, etc. what you're actually asking is that the rest of us pay for your access to the service. Or... since the vast, vast majority of folks who are going to look at this service in the next couple years are almost guaranteed to be in the same boat (have bought the physical books), you're pushing the cost for everyone onto a very small segment of folks who are willing to use the service as their sole source of content. A $150 price tag for each book is a great way to kill the service.
If you want the content in this format, pay for the content in this format. It's entirely possible that the final price for that product will exceed your willingness/ability to pay. If enough people fall into that category, Curse will either shut down DDB or find a way to lower the price. If you're the exception, they'll carry on -- or maybe even raise the prices a bit until they feel like they have optimal ROI. Either way, it's not going to be any sort of moral argument that moves the needle. It'll be market forces and that's exactly how it should be. I swear, Thomas Sowell should be required reading in high school civics.
A determined browser search would inevitably yield results. As with all things quality PDFs of all the books are most likely out there for free download (illegal is likely, but looks at some stats on pirated movies and then say you think it will stop people), along with many programs to track character progress and implement homebrew. The fact is that keeping it free will help the site and the people using it more that a cost. Once it costs money it will turn away a lot of people. Thus defeating the point of one site to do it all and be the hub everyone visits, to just another site with some neat stuff. There's already more of those than anyone could need. But with a community of players, each knowing different sources of content, they will vastly improve games everywhere by having one site they can compile and share that information on. That site being WotC controlled is a bonus.
It is less about being unable to grasp how economics work and more trying to come to terms with the reality that a tool we have craved for so long is going to be (more than likely) prohibitively expensive.
As you have more than likely gathered based on this thread many people are probably not going to pay what they are asking to use DDB. Many will (some begrudgingly and many happily) and likely Curse will see a profit. End of the day it is too bad so sad for the folks who can't justify (or can't afford) the asking price.
The angry minority who seem unable to grasp why Curse is charging us to unlock the privilege to use the full gambit of phb classes and races are the same be folk who haven't purchased content on Fantasy Grounds or Roll20. Those services have survived and are profitable, just as DDB will.
My own desire was to see a price point similar to the digital 4e tools. Obviously Curse has created a much better tool set with way better features, however the preliminary whispers make it seem like the price is going to be much higher. That is where my own frustration lies.
I believe we paid $10 CAD a month for unlimited character slots with the 4e tools. So I don't by any means expect these tools to be free. I was simply expecting a better price point than Fantasy Grounds.
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D&D Beyond FoundersPun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
And herin lies the problem. A lot of people are craving digital rulebooks. You seem to be the only avenue to get them legally. There are a lot of people anxiously awaiting what the price point for rules is going to be. The character manager is what is it. I don't expect that to be free. But the rulebooks will be one static price (so I hope.) I don't think anyone currently posting on this forum is currently patiently waiting for your rule books to come out before they turn around and buy a Player's Handbook. All of us have already bought the rules. So, I think we're all a little price conscious about buying them again.
Not sure if it's been announced anywhere on here yet, but this article just got linked by the DDB twitter. It has some more information regarding price in it.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/18/15988688/dungeons-and-dragons-beyond-wizards-of-the-coast-digital-toolset-roleplaying-games
I have to say, while I'm pleased that the core books will be bundled and sold together for a minimal-ish cost, there a few things not mentioned that would be really good to see. The most pertinent of which is a DISCOUNT ON ONE TIME CONTENT FEES FOR PEOPLE WITH SUBSCRIPTIONS. It doesn't need to be a huge discount, but that would go a long way toward easing the nerves of long time players who have already sunk a bunch of money into this game. I know the price for books and modules is not nearly as expensive as a physical copy which is VERY good, but for the hardcore DMs, they'll still be sinking in cash to get all the digital books and a subscription as well as their physical copies. It's going to add up really fast.
"The “Hero Tier” subscription, for $3/month, will be able to make unlimited characters and use homebrew content from other users. For $6/month, the “Master Tier” subscription unlocks the ability to share paid content with up to 12 other players across all of their games, as mentioned above. That paid content includes rule supplements, such as Volo’s Guide to Monsters, which will cost a fixed, one-time price of $30. Adventure modules, such as Curse of Strahd, will cost $25 (though special Founders’ Pricing on the first seven days after launch will instead be $20). Free accounts can purchase these supplements as well, and no content will be lost if your paid subscription lapses."
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I read the core rules would be on sale for $20 in the first week. Either way, I still think its a good deal.
Almost the last paragraph.
I'm on the DM's Guild: click here
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D&D Beyond FoundersI'm sure you all noticed by now, but details on pricing are found here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/news-announcements/5335-release-date-august-15th-pricing-details-announced
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
For me and mine Beyond would need to be a monthly subscription $10-15, with access to all 5e material, and tools of equal to or superior in quality to third party applications and services.