(Purple Dragon Knight is actually a fighter subclass, but let's assume that you mean some kind of background from SCAG): Shhh, don't tell anyone, but you will be able to customize a background entirely, so if you don't mind a little bit of typing, then the cost is $0. If you really wanted to buy one, then it's $1.99.
The two magic items for $1.99 each
For a total of $12.95.
There will also be other "bundles" that will give you those things and other things like them for a good bit less than your original assessment.
The model has flexibility. Again, this is framed using your words of "if all I ever wanted to do."
Thanks!
Ick, OK, that's the first bit of, "Yeah, nah," I've seen so far of the model. Those prices for individual components is... yeah, ick is the word.
You are more than welcome to ignore that part of the model - it clearly doesn't fit your needs.
The point is to have flexible options for players who want different ways to consume the content.
One thing I don't think I've seen addressed, and pardon if it has somewhere in the last 18 pages (this thread moves fast!) is whether Curse will be aiming for release parity with future books. I love the site and resources you've built here enough to want to go full digital with future books, but will something like Xanathar's Guide be available along with the physical edition, or will that be held back a bit so as not to threaten hardcover sales?
Day and date with the hobby store release on all future products.
Great! I'm happy never to look back, since I'm a DM who has to schlep out to weekly sessions via public transit. The ability to carry just a laptop or tablet instead of four hardcover books is worth a lot to me. :D
As an extreme example, and let me say first that I'm really complaining to Hasbro/WoTC, not really with Curse:
So, are you saying that if all I ever wanted to do was to create an Aasimar Paladin with the Oath of Vengeance subclass, with the Purple Dragon Knight Background, equipped with a Dawnbringer and a Blod Stone in his inventory, that I would have to purchase:
Player's Handbook for $29.99
Dungeon Master's Guide for $29.99
Volo's Guide to Monsters for $29.99
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide for $29.99
Storm King's Thunder for $24.99
Out of the Abyss for $24.99
In addition, say I subscribed at just the $3/mo for the next 12 months to see if this actually develops into a proper service and add a homebrew magic shield that the DM created to this character
For a grand total of $205.94 ?
And, mind you, that I've already purchased each of these books (and every other 5e book) twice already, as well as purchasing each for use within Fantasy Grounds in addition to all kinds of stuff off DMs Guild. And even more, having to pay for a separate "real" campaign management package since it looks like you guys are misinterpreting what that term means.
And then nothing at all to show for the 12 months of paying into a subscription model vs just let me pay once for the satisfaction that I've paid my dues and I'm done for the lifetime of 5e.
And, still, none of this includes a legal PDF copy of any of these books?
I just want to be sure I'm fully understanding the extent of how much WoTC is expecting to rip us off.
I mean, I'm a sucker, and I'm lucky to have very good income for hobbies [I've certainly wasted a lot more money on other things *cough* KS1-5 of Dwarven Forge...] I may very well do it if there is something... anything... that you will offer that I really want to use that I can't get elsewhere. But, I guess I'm saying I just want to understand the full extent of how much I'm being taken advantage of before I willingly to go along with it...
No, if that's specifically what you want to play, you could alternatively make for a minimum purchase: Aasimar Paladin with the Oath of Vengeance subclass, with the Purple Dragon Knight Background, equipped with a Dawnbringer and a Blod Stone in his inventory
Aasimar Race - $2.99
Paladin Class (with all PHB options) - $3.99
(Purple Dragon Knight is actually a fighter subclass, but let's assume that you mean some kind of background from SCAG): Shhh, don't tell anyone, but you will be able to customize a background entirely, so if you don't mind a little bit of typing, then the cost is $0. If you really wanted to buy one, then it's $1.99.
The two magic items for $1.99 each
For a total of $12.95.
There will also be other "bundles" that will give you those things and other things like them for a good bit less than your original assessment.
The model has flexibility. Again, this is framed using your words of "if all I ever wanted to do."
Thanks!
BadEye, this seems an awesome way to approach small purchases, but what about people, specially DMs, that will have to buy in bulk? Or any other strange purchase?
Sure, buying all content of a specific book separately is more expensive than buying the entire book outright, but what if I need to buy all monsters because reasons? Separately would be a nightmare and every monster book even more so, but a reasonably priced "Monstrous Bag of Holding" would be amazing. Similarly, if I had bought the MM, but later decided to buy the Monstrous Bag of Holding, would I get the MM monsters discounted?
If I just need the hard numbers of everything, because I already have the hardcover books for all the lore and fluff, to use DnDB's smooth character creation, would I be able to buy this "Excel sheet" version for a small price reduction? Or if I'm a book maniac and want to buy the three Core Rulebooks, will there be a bundle that offers them at a slight discount?
That being said, you are not incorrect in what you have said, I think most people are now just realizing that table top games are not nearly as affordable when you add digital tools. And (just like Fantasy Grounds and Roll20) the cost is unpalatable to most. I think that most people thought that Curse was finally going to bring an affordable digital toolset to D&D as the cost of things such as Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds is too much for many. What we are seeing is the lashing out of a thousand disappointed voices.
It's completely fair to point out that the price is too much for you and others. But I think saying 'unpalatable to most' oversteps the data we have available. Message board responses are not a representative sample
Ultimately, Curse (within the bounds presumably set by WotC) need to decide a price point that is still reasonably profitable for them. Meaning that they have to get enough people to buy in at a high enough price to make this whole venture worth it for them.
You mention roll20 and FG. While there's no way to know their finances, they sure seem like they are doing fine. Which might be indicative of whether DDB can be successful at the price points they have announced. I suspect they can.
But we'll see!
AD
I apologize for my choice of words. I meant most of the people responding in this forum.
I mentioned in an earlier post on the discussion of pricing before this announcement was made that I thought the cost would be similar to those other digital tools and that although not for me they would likely see the same success at Curse as the other two companies.
I wish no ill will to Curse, they've built a fantastic product. Unfortunately for me it is more than I wanted and the price reflects that.
As an extreme example, and let me say first that I'm really complaining to Hasbro/WoTC, not really with Curse:
So, are you saying that if all I ever wanted to do was to create an Aasimar Paladin with the Oath of Vengeance subclass, with the Purple Dragon Knight Background, equipped with a Dawnbringer and a Blod Stone in his inventory, that I would have to purchase:
Player's Handbook for $29.99
Dungeon Master's Guide for $29.99
Volo's Guide to Monsters for $29.99
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide for $29.99
Storm King's Thunder for $24.99
Out of the Abyss for $24.99
In addition, say I subscribed at just the $3/mo for the next 12 months to see if this actually develops into a proper service and add a homebrew magic shield that the DM created to this character
For a grand total of $205.94 ?
And, mind you, that I've already purchased each of these books (and every other 5e book) twice already, as well as purchasing each for use within Fantasy Grounds in addition to all kinds of stuff off DMs Guild. And even more, having to pay for a separate "real" campaign management package since it looks like you guys are misinterpreting what that term means.
And then nothing at all to show for the 12 months of paying into a subscription model vs just let me pay once for the satisfaction that I've paid my dues and I'm done for the lifetime of 5e.
And, still, none of this includes a legal PDF copy of any of these books?
I just want to be sure I'm fully understanding the extent of how much WoTC is expecting to rip us off.
I mean, I'm a sucker, and I'm lucky to have very good income for hobbies [I've certainly wasted a lot more money on other things *cough* KS1-5 of Dwarven Forge...] I may very well do it if there is something... anything... that you will offer that I really want to use that I can't get elsewhere. But, I guess I'm saying I just want to understand the full extent of how much I'm being taken advantage of before I willingly to go along with it...
No, if that's specifically what you want to play, you could alternatively make for a minimum purchase: Aasimar Paladin with the Oath of Vengeance subclass, with the Purple Dragon Knight Background, equipped with a Dawnbringer and a Blod Stone in his inventory
Aasimar Race - $2.99
Paladin Class (with all PHB options) - $3.99
(Purple Dragon Knight is actually a fighter subclass, but let's assume that you mean some kind of background from SCAG): Shhh, don't tell anyone, but you will be able to customize a background entirely, so if you don't mind a little bit of typing, then the cost is $0. If you really wanted to buy one, then it's $1.99.
The two magic items for $1.99 each
For a total of $12.95.
There will also be other "bundles" that will give you those things and other things like them for a good bit less than your original assessment.
The model has flexibility. Again, this is framed using your words of "if all I ever wanted to do."
Thanks!
BadEye, this seems an awesome way to approach small purchases, but what about people, specially DMs, that will have to buy in bulk? Or any other strange purchase?
Sure, buying all content of a specific book separately is more expensive than buying the entire book outright, but what if I need to buy all monsters because reasons? Separately would be a nightmare and every monster book even more so, but a reasonably priced "Monstrous Bag of Holding" would be amazing. Similarly, if I had bought the MM, but later decided to buy the Monstrous Bag of Holding, would I get the MM monsters discounted?
If I just need the hard numbers of everything, because I already have the hardcover books for all the lore and fluff, to use DnDB's smooth character creation, would I be able to buy this "Excel sheet" version for a small price reduction? Or if I'm a book maniac and want to buy the three Core Rulebooks, will there be a bundle that offers them at a slight discount?
TLDR; how flexible is this model, exactly?
At launch, you can purchase bundles of like content per source. You can unlock all the magic items in the DMG or all the races in Volo's, for instance.
If you wanted every player race across all sources, you would purchase the Races bundles in the PHB and Volo's.
If all you want is the digital content in the compendium, you can buy only that for each source as well.
The three core rulebooks are $19.99 each for the first week (which is the lowest I've ever seen them priced). This includes not only the book content in digital form, but all the options available in those books for complete use within the toolset (both for currently-available character management tools and any future tools, such as an encounter builder).
The three core rulebooks are $19.99 each for the first week (which is the lowest I've ever seen them priced). This includes not only the book content in digital form, but all the options available in those books for complete use within the toolset (both for currently-available character management tools and any future tools, such as an encounter builder).
I'm already saving. Will be very difficult to get in on that one week deal in time, me being a pov and all, but I need to give up a few luxuries anyway. Regardless, will there be other sales occasionally? Maybe pre-purchase of content for a discount?
The three core rulebooks are $19.99 each for the first week (which is the lowest I've ever seen them priced). This includes not only the book content in digital form, but all the options available in those books for complete use within the toolset (both for currently-available character management tools and any future tools, such as an encounter builder).
I'm already saving. Will be very difficult to get in on that one week deal in time, me being a pov and all, but I need to give up a few luxuries anyway. Regardless, will there be other sales occasionally? Maybe pre-purchase of content for a discount?
I can't confirm specifics, but sales will certainly happen periodically.
At launch, you can purchase bundles of like content per source. You can unlock all the magic items in the DMG or all the races in Volo's, for instance.
If you wanted every player race across all sources, you would purchase the Races bundles in the PHB and Volo's.
If all you want is the digital content in the compendium, you can buy only that for each source as well.
The three core rulebooks are $19.99 each for the first week (which is the lowest I've ever seen them priced). This includes not only the book content in digital form, but all the options available in those books for complete use within the toolset (both for currently-available character management tools and any future tools, such as an encounter builder).
Thanks for the quick reply! And thank you for the straight forward answer. So bundles are per source, not the entirety of DnD, and there won't be any book bundle (As I gathered from your answer).
What I didn't quite get, is the Compendium. So the digital content, as I gathered, would be raw stats, rules and abilities per source, no lore & fluff, at a cheaper price than the whole entry would be.
But is it exclusivelyinthe Compendium, or does it transfer over to character creation & management? In case it is the latter, my ideal solution would be to buy raw digital content + hardcover books + Master subscription so that my friends and I get to use DnDB amazing tools and have the hardcovers at a reasonable prize.
The reason this an issue for me is that I love physical books, and DnD is no exception, but it is also in this weird spot were the comfort and usability of digital tools is unparalleled.
The three core rulebooks are $19.99 each for the first week (which is the lowest I've ever seen them priced). This includes not only the book content in digital form, but all the options available in those books for complete use within the toolset (both for currently-available character management tools and any future tools, such as an encounter builder).
I'm already saving. Will be very difficult to get in on that one week deal in time, me being a pov and all, but I need to give up a few luxuries anyway. Regardless, will there be other sales occasionally? Maybe pre-purchase of content for a discount?
I can't confirm specifics, but sales will certainly happen periodically.
Will there be any discounts based upon content already purchased? Say if I bought all of the races/classes from a book and now want to purchase the book in its entirety?
(Purple Dragon Knight is actually a fighter subclass, but let's assume that you mean some kind of background from SCAG): Shhh, don't tell anyone, but you will be able to customize a background entirely, so if you don't mind a little bit of typing, then the cost is $0. If you really wanted to buy one, then it's $1.99.
The two magic items for $1.99 each
For a total of $12.95.
Wait, wait, wait... We have to pay $2 for EACH magic item?!?
So we're now chopping up the PHB and DMG into microtransactions and you wonder why that isn't exactly well received?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
David Flor (@BrainClouds on Twitter) President, Darklight Interactive
(Purple Dragon Knight is actually a fighter subclass, but let's assume that you mean some kind of background from SCAG): Shhh, don't tell anyone, but you will be able to customize a background entirely, so if you don't mind a little bit of typing, then the cost is $0. If you really wanted to buy one, then it's $1.99.
The two magic items for $1.99 each
For a total of $12.95.
Wait, wait, wait... We have to pay $2 for EACH magic item?!?
So we're now chopping up the PHB and DMG into microtransactions and you wonder why that isn't exactly well received?
It's so people can buy just what they want out of the books, or buy the whole book. Some people would prefer to do the former, and some the latter.
(Purple Dragon Knight is actually a fighter subclass, but let's assume that you mean some kind of background from SCAG): Shhh, don't tell anyone, but you will be able to customize a background entirely, so if you don't mind a little bit of typing, then the cost is $0. If you really wanted to buy one, then it's $1.99.
The two magic items for $1.99 each
For a total of $12.95.
Wait, wait, wait... We have to pay $2 for EACH magic item?!?
So we're now chopping up the PHB and DMG into microtransactions and you wonder why that isn't exactly well received?
If you only want/need one specific magic item from one book (like from Princes of the Apocalypse or something) and aren't interested in anything else from there, $2 is the cheapest way. If you want all the magic items (or all the monsters, or all the subraces or something) from that book, it's slightly more than $2 but still less than $30. If you just want the entire book, it's $30. It sounds like there's flexible pricing depending on what you want/need out of a particular book, which seems like a fine way to handle it and no cause for outrage.
(Purple Dragon Knight is actually a fighter subclass, but let's assume that you mean some kind of background from SCAG): Shhh, don't tell anyone, but you will be able to customize a background entirely, so if you don't mind a little bit of typing, then the cost is $0. If you really wanted to buy one, then it's $1.99.
The two magic items for $1.99 each
For a total of $12.95.
Wait, wait, wait... We have to pay $2 for EACH magic item?!?
So we're now chopping up the PHB and DMG into microtransactions and you wonder why that isn't exactly well received?
Definitely not sure how to say this any clearer, but I'll try again.
You will absolutely be able to purchase the entire book's worth of digital content (the full book itself, as well as the content in all the things we've been working on pretty hard for the last few months the listings, builder, etc.) at a flat price ($29.99 for sourcebooks and $24.99 for adventures - again, the lowest digital prices I've seen).
If - and only if - you do not want to spend that amount on the entire source (such as Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) because you only want a single spell to use with your warlock (such as green-flame blade), then you have the option to buy that one spell for $1.99.
I didn't want to buy the entire Despicable Me 2 soundtrack for that one Happy song, so instead of buying the whole album for $9, I bought the one song for $2.
This is not really a "microtransaction" as the term has come to take meaning. Buying a loot box in Overwatch definitely is, but this is fairly obviously not the same thing.
And as a final note, I'm actually not wondering why anything isn't well-received. For starters, I've seen far more positive-to-measured responses to our pricing announcement than could be expected, especially with this being the internet. As a longtime player and super-fan of D&D, I can assure you that I fought hard for the pricing to be as low as possible, and the end result is the lowest digital cost that's been seen for these products. I'll also reiterate that buying these products does not equal buying a book - it's already more than that even with the toolset in its early days. As we grow and add more and more functionality, the value will continue to increase.
At launch, you can purchase bundles of like content per source. You can unlock all the magic items in the DMG or all the races in Volo's, for instance.
If you wanted every player race across all sources, you would purchase the Races bundles in the PHB and Volo's.
If all you want is the digital content in the compendium, you can buy only that for each source as well.
The three core rulebooks are $19.99 each for the first week (which is the lowest I've ever seen them priced). This includes not only the book content in digital form, but all the options available in those books for complete use within the toolset (both for currently-available character management tools and any future tools, such as an encounter builder).
Thanks for the quick reply! And thank you for the straight forward answer. So bundles are per source, not the entirety of DnD, and there won't be any book bundle (As I gathered from your answer).
What I didn't quite get, is the Compendium. So the digital content, as I gathered, would be raw stats, rules and abilities per source, no lore & fluff, at a cheaper price than the whole entry would be.
But is it exclusivelyinthe Compendium, or does it transfer over to character creation & management? In case it is the latter, my ideal solution would be to buy raw digital content + hardcover books + Master subscription so that my friends and I get to use DnDB amazing tools and have the hardcovers at a reasonable prize.
The reason this an issue for me is that I love physical books, and DnD is no exception, but it is also in this weird spot were the comfort and usability of digital tools is unparalleled.
What's to stop people from releasing Core Books under the Homebrew section, as to get around paying for the digital copy?
They can input the entire book, but it will not be able to be published publicly in the homebrew section. So you can have it in your private collection, but not available on the public homebrew browser.
BadEye: I apologize for my tone back there... dealing with enough things in the real world that I shouldn't have been posting here.
As someone who knows how things work when it comes to WotC-related content and putting a price on this kind of licensing, I understand where you're at. Although you've made an awesome product, this might be a little cost prohibitive to go "all in" for me at this time and many others here, but I figure we'll at least keep using your product in whatever capacity we can (free with ads, I assume) until it becomes affordable or other arrangements can be made.
Best of luck. Hope this works out better for you than it has for other digital ventures. ;)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
David Flor (@BrainClouds on Twitter) President, Darklight Interactive
I'm going to change gears a bit here and not complain about the price, but rather ask a question about campaign functionality.
So if I'm a DM, I understand that I can set up a campaign and invite players to join. Once those players join, they have access to all of my purchased content. Is that the only function of joining a campaign?
Or would I have a dashboard of sorts where I can see each character's stats and HP? If a character takes damage, can I as the DM apply that damage and have it update live to their device? If a character is poisoned, can I set that as a status effect that I'll be able to see as a reminder?
I will say that the compendium is great and speeds up my game immensely, and having access to everything as convenient as the SRD content already is will be fantastic. Every time a spell needs to be looked up, I race with the player who has the book, and I'm already reading the description before they find the page.
And seeing BadEye's recent examples of a la carte pricing actually quelled any doubts I had. I was a little bummed that I'd have to buy Volo's for my one Kenku player, but now that I know I can purchase it by itself, no biggie.
So we've got the 3 core books at $20 each (if bought at launch), $3 for the one extra race I need in Volo's, maybe $2 or $3 for the spells some of my characters use from SCAG, and the Master sub... $70ish bucks? My group has 6 players, so next session, everyone bring $10. The cost of 1 kinda nice lunch. Boom, now we're playing with power. I'm the DM and I can afford the subscription fee, and we're done. If any player wants a new spell we don't have, bring a couple bucks next session and we'll get it. It's really not a big deal at all.
Especially if the answers to my above questions are correct, then it's a fantastic value. Yes, I'm paying for content I already own, but really I'm actually paying for the next level platform for that content.
Great! I'm happy never to look back, since I'm a DM who has to schlep out to weekly sessions via public transit. The ability to carry just a laptop or tablet instead of four hardcover books is worth a lot to me. :D
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
David Flor (@BrainClouds on Twitter)
President, Darklight Interactive
"Omne ignotum pro magnifico"
What's to stop people from releasing Core Books under the Homebrew section, as to get around paying for the digital copy?
BadEye: I apologize for my tone back there... dealing with enough things in the real world that I shouldn't have been posting here.
As someone who knows how things work when it comes to WotC-related content and putting a price on this kind of licensing, I understand where you're at. Although you've made an awesome product, this might be a little cost prohibitive to go "all in" for me at this time and many others here, but I figure we'll at least keep using your product in whatever capacity we can (free with ads, I assume) until it becomes affordable or other arrangements can be made.
Best of luck. Hope this works out better for you than it has for other digital ventures. ;)
David Flor (@BrainClouds on Twitter)
President, Darklight Interactive
"Omne ignotum pro magnifico"
I'm going to change gears a bit here and not complain about the price, but rather ask a question about campaign functionality.
So if I'm a DM, I understand that I can set up a campaign and invite players to join. Once those players join, they have access to all of my purchased content. Is that the only function of joining a campaign?
Or would I have a dashboard of sorts where I can see each character's stats and HP? If a character takes damage, can I as the DM apply that damage and have it update live to their device? If a character is poisoned, can I set that as a status effect that I'll be able to see as a reminder?
I will say that the compendium is great and speeds up my game immensely, and having access to everything as convenient as the SRD content already is will be fantastic. Every time a spell needs to be looked up, I race with the player who has the book, and I'm already reading the description before they find the page.
And seeing BadEye's recent examples of a la carte pricing actually quelled any doubts I had. I was a little bummed that I'd have to buy Volo's for my one Kenku player, but now that I know I can purchase it by itself, no biggie.
So we've got the 3 core books at $20 each (if bought at launch), $3 for the one extra race I need in Volo's, maybe $2 or $3 for the spells some of my characters use from SCAG, and the Master sub... $70ish bucks? My group has 6 players, so next session, everyone bring $10. The cost of 1 kinda nice lunch. Boom, now we're playing with power. I'm the DM and I can afford the subscription fee, and we're done. If any player wants a new spell we don't have, bring a couple bucks next session and we'll get it. It's really not a big deal at all.
Especially if the answers to my above questions are correct, then it's a fantastic value. Yes, I'm paying for content I already own, but really I'm actually paying for the next level platform for that content.