Specifically is the only way to kill one to keep it from reaching its coffin within two hours? Since the vampire can be damaged in mist form by magical means, does this mean that the Vampire could in fact be forced to fail saving throws if attacked by magical means?
I don't believe the an undead would have to make a death saving throw. The way I've always regarded it was that death saving throws have to be made because you are bleeding out. The vampire wouldn't technically be bleeding out. Not to mention, if death saving throws were an issue, it would likely be noted in the Misty Escape text. It would say something along the lines of "While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't revert to its vampire form, and must reach its resting place within 2 hours or before 3 failed death saving throws or be destroyed."
Because it doesn't say anything about death saving throws (and because most monsters don't make death saving throws anyway), I'd say that simply damaging while it's in mist form isn't going to cut it.
I'd say that the only way to fully kill a vampire is to 1) never let it transform in the first place (using sunlight or running water) or 2) not let it get back to its coffin.
The most obvious way to not let it get back to its coffin would probably be Magic Circle (cast at a 4th level slot so you get the full 2 hours) so that it can't leave. But, another option is a simple Suggestion: "You are already in your coffin. Rest and you will be restored". Another option is to already have cast a Hallow spell on the vampire's coffin.
Or, if you know where its coffin is: follow it there, stake it in the heart, and dump it into a river/bring it out into the sun.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Moonbeam is the perfect spell for this situation, It is just a 2nd level spell but can revert the shapechange of shapechangers. And the saving throw for them is made with disadvantage.
Moonbeam is the perfect spell for this situation, It is just a 2nd level spell but can revert the shapechange of shapechangers. And the saving throw for them is made with disadvantage.
If I am not mistaken, a wooden stake into the heart just paralise the vampire. But kill him in the coffin should work.
I was wrong with my initial take on it (it was late). The Misty Escape feature says "When it drops to 0 hit points outside its resting place..." meaning, if you reduce it to 0 damage inside its resting place, it can't use that ability to prevent its death. So my interpretation is that, yes killing it while it is in its coffin would work.
So basically, if it drops to 0 hit points, 1) make sure it can't transform 2) Make sure it can't get to its coffin within 2 hours 3) Make sure you CAN get to its coffin within 3 hours.
In fact, that sounds like a pretty epic (in the literal definition of the word epic, not the D&D definition) adventure. You've defeated the vampire and now you need to race to and fight your way through its lair to get to its coffin before it comes back to unlife.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Moonbeam is the perfect spell for this situation, It is just a 2nd level spell but can revert the shapechange of shapechangers. And the saving throw for them is made with disadvantage.
I'm not sure how that would work with the mist the vampire turns into after reaching zero hit points. I'd rule it doesn't since every vampire would have someone on hand to cast the spell should the vampire get trapped in most from.
Moonbeam is the perfect spell for this situation, It is just a 2nd level spell but can revert the shapechange of shapechangers. And the saving throw for them is made with disadvantage.
I'm not sure how that would work with the mist the vampire turns into after reaching zero hit points. I'd rule it doesn't since every vampire would have someone on hand to cast the spell should the vampire get trapped in most from.
Basically when you cast Moonbeam on the vampire/mist you kill it. It is forced to turn back into the vampire form and takes also damage.
Moonbeam is the perfect spell for this situation, It is just a 2nd level spell but can revert the shapechange of shapechangers. And the saving throw for them is made with disadvantage.
I'm not sure how that would work with the mist the vampire turns into after reaching zero hit points. I'd rule it doesn't since every vampire would have someone on hand to cast the spell should the vampire get trapped in most from.
Basically when you cast Moonbeam on the vampire/mist you kill it. It is forced to turn back into the vampire form and takes also damage.
Exactly what in the rules would imply that it would die from being turned back into a vampire? My interpretation of Moonbeam is that it works on shapechangers and reverts the creature to its original form. There is nothing in the Vampire entry that would lead me to think a vampire would die if this occurred, but may die if it couldn't revert back to mist form. Further the Vampire entry says specifically the Vampire cannot revert to its vampire form once in mist form until it reaches its resting place. I'd say that even moonbeam could not force the vampire to revert to its body form, specifically because the Vampire entry states it cannot revert back to its original form.
Of course you would have to deal with whether or not Legendary resistance would be applicable. If so, then I'd say vampires would always hold on to their last one just in case.
Obviously if you cast moonbeam prior to it going into mist form, I would say sure.
Moonbeam is the perfect spell for this situation, It is just a 2nd level spell but can revert the shapechange of shapechangers. And the saving throw for them is made with disadvantage.
I'm not sure how that would work with the mist the vampire turns into after reaching zero hit points. I'd rule it doesn't since every vampire would have someone on hand to cast the spell should the vampire get trapped in most from.
Basically when you cast Moonbeam on the vampire/mist you kill it. It is forced to turn back into the vampire form and takes also damage.
Exactly what in the rules would imply that it would die from being turned back into a vampire? My interpretation of Moonbeam is that it works on shapechangers and reverts the creature to its original form. There is nothing in the Vampire entry that would lead me to think a vampire would die if this occurred, but may die if it couldn't revert back to mist form. Further the Vampire entry says specifically the Vampire cannot revert to its vampire form once in mist form until it reaches its resting place. I'd say that even moonbeam could not force the vampire to revert to its body form, specifically because the Vampire entry states it cannot revert back to its original form.
Of course you would have to deal with whether or not Legendary resistance would be applicable. If so, then I'd say vampires would always hold on to their last one just in case.
Obviously if you cast moonbeam prior to it going into mist form, I would say sure.
I think the concept here is you cast Moonbeam on the misty form, it changes back into the Vampire (at 0 hit points) and then it obviously can't move. Because the Misty Escape feature states when the Vampire drops to 0 hit points, and not any time it's at 0 hit points - the vampire would remain in human form and at 0.
Moonbeam is the perfect spell for this situation, It is just a 2nd level spell but can revert the shapechange of shapechangers. And the saving throw for them is made with disadvantage.
I'm not sure how that would work with the mist the vampire turns into after reaching zero hit points. I'd rule it doesn't since every vampire would have someone on hand to cast the spell should the vampire get trapped in most from.
Basically when you cast Moonbeam on the vampire/mist you kill it. It is forced to turn back into the vampire form and takes also damage.
Exactly what in the rules would imply that it would die from being turned back into a vampire? My interpretation of Moonbeam is that it works on shapechangers and reverts the creature to its original form. There is nothing in the Vampire entry that would lead me to think a vampire would die if this occurred, but may die if it couldn't revert back to mist form. Further the Vampire entry says specifically the Vampire cannot revert to its vampire form once in mist form until it reaches its resting place. I'd say that even moonbeam could not force the vampire to revert to its body form, specifically because the Vampire entry states it cannot revert back to its original form.
Of course you would have to deal with whether or not Legendary resistance would be applicable. If so, then I'd say vampires would always hold on to their last one just in case.
Obviously if you cast moonbeam prior to it going into mist form, I would say sure.
I think the concept here is you cast Moonbeam on the misty form, it changes back into the Vampire (at 0 hit points) and then it obviously can't move. Because the Misty Escape feature states when the Vampire drops to 0 hit points, and not any time it's at 0 hit points - the vampire would remain in human form and at 0.
That still doesn't take into consideration that the mist feature says specifically that the Vampire cannot revert back to human form. The other question would be while it is like the shape-change ability, does that make it actually the shape change ability. So I take it, outside of the Vampires resting place it is simply impossible for a vampire who has reached zero points to become anything other than mist.
As a side note, misty escape says transform rather than polymorph. So that begs the question whether the change in wording is specific to note that it isn't a polymorph but is in fact a transformation. That being itself a very big difference.
I think if the Vampire was not required to go to mist form, then it also wouldn't trigger its death as that is part of the mist form ability. This I think is mostly a moot point though as I'm fine with saying that should moonbeam cause the vampire to revert back to human form, the vampire would only die if it fails the save. If it succeeds the save it would revert back to mist.
Simplified: Misty Escape says the vampire cannot revert back to its original form.
Moonbeam says it does so instantly.
I'm inclined to side with Misty escapes negative because it seems that in general that is the way most other scenerios would go. I.e. If you can't be healed at zero and a spells says you are healed then I'd say the spell doesn't work either.
Having red the sage advice above, I would say that a vampire using misty escape cannot revert back willingly. The mist form, being listed in the shapechange trait, does work with Moonbeam imo.
Having red the sage advice above, I would say that a vampire using misty escape cannot revert back willingly. The mist form, being listed in the shapechange trait, does work with Moonbeam imo.
My only issue is that misty escape does not state willingly, it simply says it cannot.
This is one of my biggest complaints about D&D. The entire thing depends on which spell/ability overrides the other one. And for the most part you are going to have no idea how the Dm would rule the issue until you do it.
To be fair if my players went through all this planning and such and tried id probably let it work. The vampire makes a straight save (dis. Cancels cause of advantage) and not to mention a smart vampire would save 1 legendary resistence.
Which could lead to an awesome moment when the PCs kill a low level vampire that way and then discover a way more dangerous one who is smart enough to keep contingency plans in place.
Simplified: Misty Escape says the vampire cannot revert back to its original form.
Moonbeam says it does so instantly.
I'm inclined to side with Misty escapes negative because it seems that in general that is the way most other scenerios would go. I.e. If you can't be healed at zero and a spells says you are healed then I'd say the spell doesn't work either.
"While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't revert to its vampire form".
"If it can't transform, it dies".
Notice it says that IT can't revert to its vampire form. There's nothing to stop someone else from forcing it to revert. Otherwise it would state something along the lines of "While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't be reverted back to its vampire form."
So, since if we rule that it can be reverted and since it wouldn't be able to transform after that (can't transform while in the Moonbeam), it dies.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Simplified: Misty Escape says the vampire cannot revert back to its original form.
Moonbeam says it does so instantly.
I'm inclined to side with Misty escapes negative because it seems that in general that is the way most other scenerios would go. I.e. If you can't be healed at zero and a spells says you are healed then I'd say the spell doesn't work either.
"While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't revert to its vampire form".
"If it can't transform, it dies".
Notice it says that IT can't revert to its vampire form. There's nothing to stop someone else from forcing it to revert. Otherwise it would state something along the lines of "While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't be reverted back to its vampire form."
So, since if we rule that it can be reverted and since it wouldn't be able to transform after that (can't transform while in the Moonbeam), it dies.
Simplified: Misty Escape says the vampire cannot revert back to its original form.
Moonbeam says it does so instantly.
I'm inclined to side with Misty escapes negative because it seems that in general that is the way most other scenerios would go. I.e. If you can't be healed at zero and a spells says you are healed then I'd say the spell doesn't work either.
"While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't revert to its vampire form".
"If it can't transform, it dies".
Notice it says that IT can't revert to its vampire form. There's nothing to stop someone else from forcing it to revert. Otherwise it would state something along the lines of "While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't be reverted back to its vampire form."
So, since if we rule that it can be reverted and since it wouldn't be able to transform after that (can't transform while in the Moonbeam), it dies.
Simplified: Misty Escape says the vampire cannot revert back to its original form.
Moonbeam says it does so instantly.
I'm inclined to side with Misty escapes negative because it seems that in general that is the way most other scenerios would go. I.e. If you can't be healed at zero and a spells says you are healed then I'd say the spell doesn't work either.
"While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't revert to its vampire form".
"If it can't transform, it dies".
Notice it says that IT can't revert to its vampire form. There's nothing to stop someone else from forcing it to revert. Otherwise it would state something along the lines of "While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't be reverted back to its vampire form."
So, since if we rule that it can be reverted and since it wouldn't be able to transform after that (can't transform while in the Moonbeam), it dies.
I'll go with that. A vampire should always keep 1 legendary resistence and should fly upwards after going to mist form.
Simplified: Misty Escape says the vampire cannot revert back to its original form.
Moonbeam says it does so instantly.
I'm inclined to side with Misty escapes negative because it seems that in general that is the way most other scenerios would go. I.e. If you can't be healed at zero and a spells says you are healed then I'd say the spell doesn't work either.
"While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't revert to its vampire form".
"If it can't transform, it dies".
Notice it says that IT can't revert to its vampire form. There's nothing to stop someone else from forcing it to revert. Otherwise it would state something along the lines of "While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't be reverted back to its vampire form."
So, since if we rule that it can be reverted and since it wouldn't be able to transform after that (can't transform while in the Moonbeam), it dies.
I'll go with that. A vampire should always keep 1 legendary resistence and should fly upwards after going to mist form.
Well, the range is 120 feet and is 40 foot high, so I don't know that flying up 20 feet (40 feet with the dash action) would really do much
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Simplified: Misty Escape says the vampire cannot revert back to its original form.
Moonbeam says it does so instantly.
I'm inclined to side with Misty escapes negative because it seems that in general that is the way most other scenerios would go. I.e. If you can't be healed at zero and a spells says you are healed then I'd say the spell doesn't work either.
"While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't revert to its vampire form".
"If it can't transform, it dies".
Notice it says that IT can't revert to its vampire form. There's nothing to stop someone else from forcing it to revert. Otherwise it would state something along the lines of "While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't be reverted back to its vampire form."
So, since if we rule that it can be reverted and since it wouldn't be able to transform after that (can't transform while in the Moonbeam), it dies.
I'll go with that. A vampire should always keep 1 legendary resistence and should fly upwards after going to mist form.
Well, the range is 120 feet and is 40 foot high, so I don't know that flying up 20 feet (40 feet with the dash action) would really do much
If the vampire keeps it's legendary actions then it can move 100 feet in one round. With legendary resistence the vampire will be safely out of the range of the spell within two rounds. Gives the Druid a chance. Get the vampire but potentially a small chance.
So everyone is landing on that if the Vampire is hit with Moonbeam, it's reverted to humanoid form and dies?
Couldn't you rule that the effects of the spell do render it back from Misty form to humanoid, but unconscious? The whole point of the vampire turning into mist and then retreating back to it's coffin would be, IMO, to regenerate it's humanoid body. The effects of Moonbeam would force the reversion back to humanoid and essentially start the clock running or because it is outside the coffin maybe it can't regenerate (because it's not in it's coffin) and cannot move(because 0 HP)?
So then the party would make with the head cutting and wooden staking or magic cirlcing or sunbathing etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Specifically is the only way to kill one to keep it from reaching its coffin within two hours? Since the vampire can be damaged in mist form by magical means, does this mean that the Vampire could in fact be forced to fail saving throws if attacked by magical means?
I don't believe the an undead would have to make a death saving throw. The way I've always regarded it was that death saving throws have to be made because you are bleeding out. The vampire wouldn't technically be bleeding out. Not to mention, if death saving throws were an issue, it would likely be noted in the Misty Escape text. It would say something along the lines of "While it has 0 hit points in mist form, it can't revert to its vampire form, and must reach its resting place within 2 hours or before 3 failed death saving throws or be destroyed."
Because it doesn't say anything about death saving throws (and because most monsters don't make death saving throws anyway), I'd say that simply damaging while it's in mist form isn't going to cut it.
I'd say that the only way to fully kill a vampire is to 1) never let it transform in the first place (using sunlight or running water) or 2) not let it get back to its coffin.
The most obvious way to not let it get back to its coffin would probably be Magic Circle (cast at a 4th level slot so you get the full 2 hours) so that it can't leave. But, another option is a simple Suggestion: "You are already in your coffin. Rest and you will be restored". Another option is to already have cast a Hallow spell on the vampire's coffin.
Or, if you know where its coffin is: follow it there, stake it in the heart, and dump it into a river/bring it out into the sun.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Yeah. That was my thoughts.
Moonbeam is the perfect spell for this situation, It is just a 2nd level spell but can revert the shapechange of shapechangers. And the saving throw for them is made with disadvantage.
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/03/can-a-vampire-using-misty-escape-be-reverted-with-moonbeam/
Doesn't the old follow it back to its coffin, stake it through the heart while it sleeps, cut off its head and burn it all thing work still?
If I am not mistaken, a wooden stake into the heart just paralise the vampire. But kill him in the coffin should work.
So basically, if it drops to 0 hit points, 1) make sure it can't transform 2) Make sure it can't get to its coffin within 2 hours 3) Make sure you CAN get to its coffin within 3 hours.
In fact, that sounds like a pretty epic (in the literal definition of the word epic, not the D&D definition) adventure. You've defeated the vampire and now you need to race to and fight your way through its lair to get to its coffin before it comes back to unlife.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Site Rules & Guidelines || How to Tooltip || Contact Support || Changelog || Pricing FAQ || Homebrew FAQ
If you have questions/concerns, please Private Message me or another moderator.
Wary the wizard who focuses on homebrew, for he can create nightmares that you wouldn't even dream of
Simplified: Misty Escape says the vampire cannot revert back to its original form.
Moonbeam says it does so instantly.
I'm inclined to side with Misty escapes negative because it seems that in general that is the way most other scenerios would go. I.e. If you can't be healed at zero and a spells says you are healed then I'd say the spell doesn't work either.
Having red the sage advice above, I would say that a vampire using misty escape cannot revert back willingly. The mist form, being listed in the shapechange trait, does work with Moonbeam imo.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
So everyone is landing on that if the Vampire is hit with Moonbeam, it's reverted to humanoid form and dies?
Couldn't you rule that the effects of the spell do render it back from Misty form to humanoid, but unconscious? The whole point of the vampire turning into mist and then retreating back to it's coffin would be, IMO, to regenerate it's humanoid body. The effects of Moonbeam would force the reversion back to humanoid and essentially start the clock running or because it is outside the coffin maybe it can't regenerate (because it's not in it's coffin) and cannot move(because 0 HP)?
So then the party would make with the head cutting and wooden staking or magic cirlcing or sunbathing etc.