Not that it matters much, but how is the Swashbuckler moving 90 feet every turn? A Wood Elf has 35 feet of movement and using Cunning Action to Dash gives a total of 70 feet.
Anyways, you just need to be able to make both ranged and melee attacks at any given moment. If they attack and retreat, make a ranged attack. If they stay close to give disadvantage on ranged attacks, use a melee attack. Javelins can make both kinds of attacks, and with the Crossbow Expert feat you don't have disadvantage ranged attacks when they're within 5 feet of you.
Alternatively, ready an action to grapple them when they move into your melee range; now they can't run. Next, shove them to the ground; no more sneak attacks.
Using Polearm Master and the Sentinel Feat can also stop them from moving if you hit them with the opportunity attack granted by Polearm Master, but that's a really heavy investment.
I'd honestly ready a grapple for when he attacks and pummel him to death (with advantage) on your next turn. You can also choke him out using the suffocating rules if the swashbuckler has a low Con score. It works pretty effectively against the squirrely types. Thanks to Firehawk for the inspiration. :D
I'd honestly ready a grapple for when he attacks and pummel him to death (with advantage) on your next turn. You can also choke him out using the suffocating rules if the swashbuckler has a low Con score. It works pretty effectively against the squirrely types. Thanks to Firehawk for the inspiration. :D
Taking the Dash action, just adds your regular movement speed again.
Using the Rogue ability of Cunning Action means they can use their Bonus Action to give themselves a Dash that turn.
If they have a move of 35 feet, then using that Dash adds a further 35 feet, for a total of 70 feet.
You're right that the Fancy Footwork ability means you don't get an attack of opportunity against them, as long as they've made an attack against you that turn, before they attempt to move away from you.
Subs & FH have the best idea I think, or you could just go plain and simple and just ready a regular attack, to hit them when they move in on you to attack.
I'd honestly ready a grapple for when he attacks and pummel him to death (with advantage) on your next turn. You can also choke him out using the suffocating rules if the swashbuckler has a low Con score. It works pretty effectively against the squirrely types. Thanks to Firehawk for the inspiration. :D
Where's the advantage coming from? Also, choking would take way too long. That's at least 5 rounds of combat if they have less than +0 CON, and in all likelihood it'll be 10 or 20 rounds.
I'd honestly ready a grapple for when he attacks and pummel him to death (with advantage) on your next turn. You can also choke him out using the suffocating rules if the swashbuckler has a low Con score. It works pretty effectively against the squirrely types. Thanks to Firehawk for the inspiration. :D
Where's the advantage coming from? Also, choking would take way too long. That's at least 5 rounds of combat if they have less than +0 CON, and in all likelihood it'll be 10 or 20 rounds.
It's minutes to run out of breath, rounds if choking. If you're choking someone, they only have rounds to live.
And you're right, they only get the grappled condition. For a second I thought it restrained them.
I'd honestly ready a grapple for when he attacks and pummel him to death (with advantage) on your next turn. You can also choke him out using the suffocating rules if the swashbuckler has a low Con score. It works pretty effectively against the squirrely types. Thanks to Firehawk for the inspiration. :D
Where's the advantage coming from? Also, choking would take way too long. That's at least 5 rounds of combat if they have less than +0 CON, and in all likelihood it'll be 10 or 20 rounds.
It's minutes to run out of breath, rounds if choking. If you're choking someone, they only have rounds to live.
And you're right, they only get the grappled condition. For a second I thought it restrained them.
Choking isn't the same thing as being choked, though. People don't black out within 6 seconds of being put into a choke hold.
There's also the issue that putting someone into a choke hold is arguably restraining them. The only reliable way to do that is using an extra action with the Grappler feat. The fact that the feat exists doesn't mean it can't be done without the feat, but for obvious reasons restraining someone without using the feat should be harder than using the feat, and should be even harder still if you're going to be that specific about how you're restraining them. You're basically asking for a called shot.
Alternatively, ready an action to grapple them when they move into your melee range; now they can't run. Next, shove them to the ground; no more sneak attacks.
This assume you beat their Acrobatics (Dex + Proficiency) with your Athletics + Proficiency.
There are no rules for chocking someone you've grappled. All grapple does is set the movement to 0. Then you're in the same boat: you beat their Acrobatics (Dex + Proficiency) with your Athletics + Proficiency. Not an ideal fight...
Stormknight, I don't think readying an attack is a great choice. You can ready a single Action. If they see you not move on their turn, they can just attack you from ranged and you'll never get your Readied Action.
Cunning Action's free Dash really really makes it hard to pin down Rogues unless you can beat them at ranged combat, and the Swashbuckler can constantly stay outside of move + attack.
Any swashbuckler who is built proficiently will more than likely have Acrobatics at least trained, if not also with Expertise. That pretty much means grappling isn't a very good option since they're likely to be able to break the grapple pretty easily.
There are a few ways you can deal with a swashy, though. Numerous spells are an option, like hold person, tasha's, or difficult terrain spells. There are also ranged attacks and kiting. Nothing says you have to run after the swashbuckler and engage it in melee. The swashbuckler is also limited in having to move away and come back. It's not moving away constantly. So if it wants to hit you, it'll only have 60 ft. move, which is effectively only 30 ft. since it has to move 30 ft. towards you to attack, then move another 30 ft. away from you. And if you're also moving away on your turn while pinging it from range, it can't even do that.
Now, if you want a swashy-killer PC, get yourself a 6th-level kobold battlemaster with crossbow expert and sharpshooter using a hand crossbow and with goading, menacing and trip attack manoeuvres. Attack him out of sunlight and then turn him into a pin-cushion.
Grappling is a viable option for anyone with 1 level in Barbarian, or the Lucky feat. Also, between thieves' tools, stealth, perception, deception and persuasion, it's perfectly possible the Swashbuckler didn't pick Expertise in Athletics/Acrobatics.
Either way, that's why I also gave a plan that doesn't rely on grappling.
People don't black out within 6 seconds of being put into a choke hold.
Err, what? I've regularly seen people be choked out in less than that time in BJJ and MMA.
Fine, but it's still a dubious plan with no rules support. Once you allow choking people out in 1 round, that's how they'll resolve every combat against humanoids. It's the same problem called shots have - if you allow people to aim specifically for the heart/head/whatever, that's all they'll do, unless you make it hard enough that it's generally better not to try.
He can spend his move to move 35’, then use his action on the Dash action for another 35’, then Dash again as a cunning action for another 35’ for a total of 105’, but if he does that, he can’t attack you, as he will have spent both his action and his bonus action on movement.
It would help if you stated your class and level. By 14th level, a draconic sorcerer with a built-in fly speed (for example) shouldn’t have any problems handling a swashbuckler rogue.
I'd honestly ready a grapple for when he attacks and pummel him to death (with advantage) on your next turn. You can also choke him out using the suffocating rules if the swashbuckler has a low Con score. It works pretty effectively against the squirrely types. Thanks to Firehawk for the inspiration. :D
Where's the advantage coming from? Also, choking would take way too long. That's at least 5 rounds of combat if they have less than +0 CON, and in all likelihood it'll be 10 or 20 rounds.
Because the DM couldn't roll anything decent, it took me 2 rounds to kill the swashbuckler I was choking out.
He can attack and move 90ft with out attack oportunity, he can approach attack, and leave the reach of "move and attack". Help Please!!
Not that it matters much, but how is the Swashbuckler moving 90 feet every turn? A Wood Elf has 35 feet of movement and using Cunning Action to Dash gives a total of 70 feet.
Anyways, you just need to be able to make both ranged and melee attacks at any given moment. If they attack and retreat, make a ranged attack. If they stay close to give disadvantage on ranged attacks, use a melee attack. Javelins can make both kinds of attacks, and with the Crossbow Expert feat you don't have disadvantage ranged attacks when they're within 5 feet of you.
Alternatively, ready an action to grapple them when they move into your melee range; now they can't run. Next, shove them to the ground; no more sneak attacks.
Using Polearm Master and the Sentinel Feat can also stop them from moving if you hit them with the opportunity attack granted by Polearm Master, but that's a really heavy investment.
If you move 35 feet , with dash can move 70 + your move action, because the dash action is free for the rogue.
thanks for the tips!!
I'd honestly ready a grapple for when he attacks and pummel him to death (with advantage) on your next turn. You can also choke him out using the suffocating rules if the swashbuckler has a low Con score. It works pretty effectively against the squirrely types. Thanks to Firehawk for the inspiration. :D
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A dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
Taking the Dash action, just adds your regular movement speed again.
Using the Rogue ability of Cunning Action means they can use their Bonus Action to give themselves a Dash that turn.
If they have a move of 35 feet, then using that Dash adds a further 35 feet, for a total of 70 feet.
You're right that the Fancy Footwork ability means you don't get an attack of opportunity against them, as long as they've made an attack against you that turn, before they attempt to move away from you.
Subs & FH have the best idea I think, or you could just go plain and simple and just ready a regular attack, to hit them when they move in on you to attack.
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This assume you beat their Acrobatics (Dex + Proficiency) with your Athletics + Proficiency.
There are no rules for chocking someone you've grappled. All grapple does is set the movement to 0. Then you're in the same boat: you beat their Acrobatics (Dex + Proficiency) with your Athletics + Proficiency. Not an ideal fight...
Stormknight, I don't think readying an attack is a great choice. You can ready a single Action. If they see you not move on their turn, they can just attack you from ranged and you'll never get your Readied Action.
Cunning Action's free Dash really really makes it hard to pin down Rogues unless you can beat them at ranged combat, and the Swashbuckler can constantly stay outside of move + attack.
Any swashbuckler who is built proficiently will more than likely have Acrobatics at least trained, if not also with Expertise. That pretty much means grappling isn't a very good option since they're likely to be able to break the grapple pretty easily.
There are a few ways you can deal with a swashy, though. Numerous spells are an option, like hold person, tasha's, or difficult terrain spells. There are also ranged attacks and kiting. Nothing says you have to run after the swashbuckler and engage it in melee. The swashbuckler is also limited in having to move away and come back. It's not moving away constantly. So if it wants to hit you, it'll only have 60 ft. move, which is effectively only 30 ft. since it has to move 30 ft. towards you to attack, then move another 30 ft. away from you. And if you're also moving away on your turn while pinging it from range, it can't even do that.
Now, if you want a swashy-killer PC, get yourself a 6th-level kobold battlemaster with crossbow expert and sharpshooter using a hand crossbow and with goading, menacing and trip attack manoeuvres. Attack him out of sunlight and then turn him into a pin-cushion.
Grappling is a viable option for anyone with 1 level in Barbarian, or the Lucky feat. Also, between thieves' tools, stealth, perception, deception and persuasion, it's perfectly possible the Swashbuckler didn't pick Expertise in Athletics/Acrobatics.
Either way, that's why I also gave a plan that doesn't rely on grappling.
He can spend his move to move 35’, then use his action on the Dash action for another 35’, then Dash again as a cunning action for another 35’ for a total of 105’, but if he does that, he can’t attack you, as he will have spent both his action and his bonus action on movement.
It would help if you stated your class and level. By 14th level, a draconic sorcerer with a built-in fly speed (for example) shouldn’t have any problems handling a swashbuckler rogue.
A dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?