Not entirely sure if this where to post this question, since it's not in the core books. In the Kaladesh Planeshift adventure, there's a PC race called Aetherborn who have an optional ability Drain Life, which according to the text is:
"...a natural attack that deals 1d6 necrotic damage and restores the same number of hit points to the aetherborn. However, if the aetherborn goes for 7 days without dealing this damage, their HP maximum is reduced by 1d6 per week. This reduction can't be removed until the aetherborn has used their drainlife ability and completed a long rest."
I have two questions about this. First off, what is a natural attack? Do I add any ability mods to the attack roll, or is it just my proficiency bonus? The attack, flavor wise, is placing my hand on them and draining life force out of them "similar to the way heat is transferred from a warm object to a cold one." Second, it seems like I could just tie one enemy up and then after the battle is over heal myself for whatever remaining HP they have by attacking them with Drain Life over and over. Should we add something to prevent me from doing that? I'm not sure if it would be broken or not. I know this is a pretty niche question, any input is appreciated!
I think the term natural attack isn't mentioned anywhere in the core books but the term "natural weapon" is, a few times, in the Monster Manual, when it refers to a creature's non-manufactured attack options (such as claws and fangs).
So, if I had to estimate the wording, I'd consider one of the two:
1. It means "non-magical". I kind of doubt that - it would mean it works in Anti-Magic field and the like, and while it's described in scientific terms (heat transfer and the like), it certainly feels like a magical ability. Although it never mentions "magical", and in 5th edition it's a good idea not to make assumptions.
2. Much more likely, it means a natural weapon. What this means is that you're proficient with it regardless of your weapon proficiencies, so you do add your Proficiency bonus on attacks made with it. Since you require a touch, it's a melee weapon attack, and it's lacking Finesse, so it's Strength based - you also add your Strength modifier on attacks with it.
On the second point, that's mainly a sanity clause you're asking if needed - I don't see too great a need for it, to be honest. If you win a battle, it usually means your opponents all lie at 0 hp or dead - not much to drain. If you capture someone alive (perhaps they surrendered?) and you tie them up and slowly drain their life, sure, that's your prerogative - it is also likely an Evil act, mind, and may color your alignment.
Gift of the Aetherborn An unknown aetherborn, desperately seeking a means to extend their short life, discovered a process of transformation that prolonged their existence—by giving them the ability to feed on the life essence of other beings. Since then, other aetherborn have learned and carried out this monstrous transformation, and aetherborn with this “gift” have become a small minority among an already small population. A gifted aetherborn has the ability to drain the life essence of other beings. Similar to the way heat is transferred from a warm object to a cold one, a gifted aetherborn need only touch another living being with a clawed hand to draw life essence out, fueling their own continued existence while draining strength and vitality from their victim. For many aetherborn, living as they do for indulgence and instant gratification, the concepts of “want” and “need” are virtually synonymous. But Aetherborn with this gift understand what it is to truly need, for they develop a hunger for life essence that far exceeds any desires they might have felt before their transformation. A gifted aetherborn who abstains from this feeding deteriorates even more rapidly than other aetherborn, while enduring unspeakable agony caused by the deprivation of life energy. At the DM’s option, an aetherborn character can research methods of achieving this dark “gift.” The process is similar to inventing and manufacturing a rare magic item (see “Inventing and Manufacturing Devices” earlier in this document). But rather than aether, the process requires a variety of rare unguents and unusual ingredients that make up the cost of researching and undergoing the transformation. An aetherborn with this gift gains the Drain Life ability: a natural attack that deals 1d6 necrotic damage and restores the same number of hit points to the aetherborn. However, if the aetherborn goes for 7 days without dealing this damage, their hit point maximum is reduced by 1d6 per week. This reduction can’t be removed until the aetherborn has used their Drain Life ability and completed a long rest.
I think the term natural attack isn't mentioned anywhere in the core books but the term "natural weapon" is, a few times, in the Monster Manual, when it refers to a creature's non-manufactured attack options (such as claws and fangs).
So, if I had to estimate the wording, I'd consider one of the two:
1. It means "non-magical". I kind of doubt that - it would mean it works in Anti-Magic field and the like, and while it's described in scientific terms (heat transfer and the like), it certainly feels like a magical ability. Although it never mentions "magical", and in 5th edition it's a good idea not to make assumptions.
2. Much more likely, it means a natural weapon. What this means is that you're proficient with it regardless of your weapon proficiencies, so you do add your Proficiency bonus on attacks made with it. Since you require a touch, it's a melee weapon attack, and it's lacking Finesse, so it's Strength based - you also add your Strength modifier on attacks with it.
On the second point, that's mainly a sanity clause you're asking if needed - I don't see too great a need for it, to be honest. If you win a battle, it usually means your opponents all lie at 0 hp or dead - not much to drain. If you capture someone alive (perhaps they surrendered?) and you tie them up and slowly drain their life, sure, that's your prerogative - it is also likely an Evil act, mind, and may color your alignment.
Thank you for the quick reply, that all makes sense! I shouldn't add a STR modifier to Drain Life's damage, right? Since the damage it deals is definitely not reliant on how hard I hit them or anything.
On the second point, I kind of figured that the more HP my enemies end the battle with the less HP I lost in the battle itself, thus the less I'll need healing. Still, thought I'd ask since I could potentially heal up to 100% for virtually no cost. Technically speaking. In addition, it's occurred to me that since aetherborn don't have mouths or stomachs they can't really use healing potions / goodberries, so that might be another balancing factor.
I'll have to put more thought into the 'magical or not' question, you bring up a point I hadn't considered before. Boy this ability is vague! Thanks again for the help!
Usually, the weapon's damage only describes the dice on damage rolls you add for the weapon, and you always add your modifier unless specifically mentioned otherwise (like crossbows). This seems like a specific case, however, that just has poorly formatted statistics. I'll agree with you that adding your strength modifier to the damage doesn't seem appropriate.
(Also note, since this is an attack, it can't be used with Unarmed Attack bonuses, in case Aetherborn monks want to get tricky).
I find myself curious how you imagine a won battle with opponents still having hp left, to be honest. You start a fight with 3 bandits, each starting with 30 hp. When do you win the battle? How many hp do the bandits have remaining at the end of the battle?
Well, part of my making this thread in the first place was to see if this is even a situation worth considering. I'm just not sure how often it will come up, which is why I find the power of Drain Life a bit dubious. That being said, the hypothetical is:
Battle starts, and one of the bandits somehow gets restrained or incapacitated by Hold Person, Entangle, a grapple, Sleep, etc. The other two bandits are fought normally, and let's just say they're both reduced to 0 HP. We could now potentially have this one bandit leftover at full health, which could translate to a 30HP heal for me that expends no resources aside from time. This sounds kind of powerful, but I'm not sure how effective it would be when put into practice. Drain life doesn't seem exceptionally strong in combat, since it only deals 1d6 with no bonuses, but it's that out of combat scenario that I'm on the fence about.
Then again I've only been playing D&D for a year-ish, so I might have an incorrect estimate about how good this ability is. (Or maybe I don't know how difficult it is to lock someone down?)
Captured enemies with full hit points is not going to come up very often, so I don't think that's a big deal. The bigger issue would be with summoned monsters that you can drain. Also, wildshaped druids and polymorphed characters have a separate pool of hit points that can be drained, while leaving them back at what they were at when polymorphed after you're done.
I would probably limit it's use to once per short rest
Now that I think about it, you could have a fair number of captured enemies with lots of hit points if that was your goal. You could put people to sleep or otherwise incapacitate them with magic, then put manacles on them or tie them up while they were down. They might escape while you are dealing with their friends, and it's harder to do with particularly strong, dextrous, or oddly shaped monsters, but it's doable.
I dunno; without seeing the ability in-play, I don't think I'd feel the need to instantly limit it. Just give your DM room to place a limit if it starts feeling unfair, but:
- It's not something that it looks like the rules intend you to start out with. It's stated to be the equivalent of crafting a Rare magical item, which the DMG makes a pretty expensive and lengthy process- you have to be level 6 to start, it costs 5,000 gold, and you work in 25gp/day increments until the total 5,000gp is paid. Which means it takes you 200 in-game days, in which 8 hours were spent on it, to research how to become this specific type of Aetherborn, collect all the materials and components, and undergo the transformation. Obviously a DM can alter that if they want, or include more in-game time with this task (assuming the whole party wants to become invested in keeping their Aetherborn buddy around for longer) to make it more interesting and maybe less time consuming, maybe put in some risks of getting caught trying to undergo this dark transformation in exchange for shortening the duration. But either way- this isn't supposed to be something that just happens for you. It's something that can pay off pretty well, it looks like, but it takes some investment.
- Polymorphing/Conjuring Creatures for HP draining, in my mind, is just... using a spell slot to completely heal a character, which isn't -that- overpowered in my mind. Polymorph + Life Drain just seems like a slower but somewhat more punchy version of Cure Wounds at level 4 in some respects, except it doesn't work if the Aetherborn is unconscious or otherwise incapacitated. You can get way more HP that way, sure, but you still have to convince a character whose build is all about spell use to burn a 4th level spell so you can heal, and then hang out while you nick life from him 1d6 at a time. Wild Shape + Life Drain might not use a spell slot, and Druids only need a short rest to recover Wild Shapes so that's not too bad, but it looks like Moon Druids don't exist in this setting, so high-HP shapes aren't going to be as much of a thing. And I'd rule, as a DM, that conjured creatures can defend themselves if they're conjured just to be absorbed by another creature (and also I'd be squinting at the alignment of whoever conjured them. It seems like that is a few shades of evil.)
- Sure, you can incapacitate/capture enemies just to Life Drain them, and honestly I think that's a totally valid thing to try and do if you're willing to play a quite questionable morality. A DM can make that harder for you- throwing creatures at you with higher saves to keep them from falling asleep (and, of course, even if they do- they'll wake up as soon as you do damage to them, and a lot of creatures with less-human body types are hard to restrain), having enemies run once their buddies start to get low on health or giving them hit-and-run tactics if their function is to soften the party up for the boss monster at the end of the adventure, giving enemies Misty Step/Dimension Door gadgets that can get them out of sticky situations before all their energy can be drained from them. Not to make that tactic impossible, just to make it harder, and riskier- after all, if an NPC escapes that situation and reports your character's proclivity for tying humans up and draining them of their energy and vitality to prolong its own life, that can turn a lot of NPC factions against you. And that can be interesting RP-wise and detrimental for your character.
So I don't think it's something that needs to be immediately restricted. Again, I'd give your DM a little wiggle-room in case things start to get out of hand with it, but I certainly think it's a thing that can be managed, and a thing that could present its own RP possibilities.
Personally, I wouldn't mind how you deal with leftovers from an encounter. If you can Hold Person someone and drain him to death, that's good usage of your skills/abilities/powers. I don't think it warrants further limitations, at least within the context of the setting you're playing.
The rest of the fringe cases, I'd leave to the DM. I would probably half the gain from summoned creatures (you still have to expend resources for most of those, such as the spell to summon them, but they're "on demand"), or perhaps limit the healing from such so that it can only bring you up to half your max hp. For the much more interesting (and exploitable) Druid case, I am not certain. Perhaps I'd keep track of the damage to deal it to the Druid after he reverts - you're nor harming his body, you're draining his soul.
This raised a lot more discussion than I anticipated! Thanks all for your help, it's been really useful. In my group's case I think it'll probably work out; it's a small party and we're starting at a decently high level. I like Onyx's fix to the druid issue a lot, although right now we don't have a druid so it shouldn't even come up anytime soon. (If anything the aetherborn will end up being a druid, by the looks of the party) So far no one else in the play group seems concerned about it, esp. since I'm not much of a power gamer, so I'll keep all of your ideas in mind in case something weird comes up!
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Not entirely sure if this where to post this question, since it's not in the core books. In the Kaladesh Planeshift adventure, there's a PC race called Aetherborn who have an optional ability Drain Life, which according to the text is:
"...a natural attack that deals 1d6 necrotic damage and restores the same number of hit points to the aetherborn. However, if the aetherborn goes for 7 days without dealing this damage, their HP maximum is reduced by 1d6 per week. This reduction can't be removed until the aetherborn has used their drainlife ability and completed a long rest."
I have two questions about this. First off, what is a natural attack? Do I add any ability mods to the attack roll, or is it just my proficiency bonus? The attack, flavor wise, is placing my hand on them and draining life force out of them "similar to the way heat is transferred from a warm object to a cold one." Second, it seems like I could just tie one enemy up and then after the battle is over heal myself for whatever remaining HP they have by attacking them with Drain Life over and over. Should we add something to prevent me from doing that? I'm not sure if it would be broken or not. I know this is a pretty niche question, any input is appreciated!
Hmm. Peculiar wording.
I think the term natural attack isn't mentioned anywhere in the core books but the term "natural weapon" is, a few times, in the Monster Manual, when it refers to a creature's non-manufactured attack options (such as claws and fangs).
So, if I had to estimate the wording, I'd consider one of the two:
1. It means "non-magical". I kind of doubt that - it would mean it works in Anti-Magic field and the like, and while it's described in scientific terms (heat transfer and the like), it certainly feels like a magical ability. Although it never mentions "magical", and in 5th edition it's a good idea not to make assumptions.
2. Much more likely, it means a natural weapon. What this means is that you're proficient with it regardless of your weapon proficiencies, so you do add your Proficiency bonus on attacks made with it. Since you require a touch, it's a melee weapon attack, and it's lacking Finesse, so it's Strength based - you also add your Strength modifier on attacks with it.
On the second point, that's mainly a sanity clause you're asking if needed - I don't see too great a need for it, to be honest. If you win a battle, it usually means your opponents all lie at 0 hp or dead - not much to drain. If you capture someone alive (perhaps they surrendered?) and you tie them up and slowly drain their life, sure, that's your prerogative - it is also likely an Evil act, mind, and may color your alignment.
Here's the full text for deliberation:
Found here: https://media.wizards.com/2017/downloads/magic/Plane-Shift_Kaladesh.pdf
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Usually, the weapon's damage only describes the dice on damage rolls you add for the weapon, and you always add your modifier unless specifically mentioned otherwise (like crossbows). This seems like a specific case, however, that just has poorly formatted statistics. I'll agree with you that adding your strength modifier to the damage doesn't seem appropriate.
(Also note, since this is an attack, it can't be used with Unarmed Attack bonuses, in case Aetherborn monks want to get tricky).
I find myself curious how you imagine a won battle with opponents still having hp left, to be honest. You start a fight with 3 bandits, each starting with 30 hp. When do you win the battle? How many hp do the bandits have remaining at the end of the battle?
Well, part of my making this thread in the first place was to see if this is even a situation worth considering. I'm just not sure how often it will come up, which is why I find the power of Drain Life a bit dubious. That being said, the hypothetical is:
Battle starts, and one of the bandits somehow gets restrained or incapacitated by Hold Person, Entangle, a grapple, Sleep, etc. The other two bandits are fought normally, and let's just say they're both reduced to 0 HP. We could now potentially have this one bandit leftover at full health, which could translate to a 30HP heal for me that expends no resources aside from time. This sounds kind of powerful, but I'm not sure how effective it would be when put into practice. Drain life doesn't seem exceptionally strong in combat, since it only deals 1d6 with no bonuses, but it's that out of combat scenario that I'm on the fence about.
Then again I've only been playing D&D for a year-ish, so I might have an incorrect estimate about how good this ability is. (Or maybe I don't know how difficult it is to lock someone down?)
Captured enemies with full hit points is not going to come up very often, so I don't think that's a big deal. The bigger issue would be with summoned monsters that you can drain. Also, wildshaped druids and polymorphed characters have a separate pool of hit points that can be drained, while leaving them back at what they were at when polymorphed after you're done.
I would probably limit it's use to once per short rest
Now that I think about it, you could have a fair number of captured enemies with lots of hit points if that was your goal. You could put people to sleep or otherwise incapacitate them with magic, then put manacles on them or tie them up while they were down. They might escape while you are dealing with their friends, and it's harder to do with particularly strong, dextrous, or oddly shaped monsters, but it's doable.
I dunno; without seeing the ability in-play, I don't think I'd feel the need to instantly limit it. Just give your DM room to place a limit if it starts feeling unfair, but:
- It's not something that it looks like the rules intend you to start out with. It's stated to be the equivalent of crafting a Rare magical item, which the DMG makes a pretty expensive and lengthy process- you have to be level 6 to start, it costs 5,000 gold, and you work in 25gp/day increments until the total 5,000gp is paid. Which means it takes you 200 in-game days, in which 8 hours were spent on it, to research how to become this specific type of Aetherborn, collect all the materials and components, and undergo the transformation. Obviously a DM can alter that if they want, or include more in-game time with this task (assuming the whole party wants to become invested in keeping their Aetherborn buddy around for longer) to make it more interesting and maybe less time consuming, maybe put in some risks of getting caught trying to undergo this dark transformation in exchange for shortening the duration. But either way- this isn't supposed to be something that just happens for you. It's something that can pay off pretty well, it looks like, but it takes some investment.
- Polymorphing/Conjuring Creatures for HP draining, in my mind, is just... using a spell slot to completely heal a character, which isn't -that- overpowered in my mind. Polymorph + Life Drain just seems like a slower but somewhat more punchy version of Cure Wounds at level 4 in some respects, except it doesn't work if the Aetherborn is unconscious or otherwise incapacitated. You can get way more HP that way, sure, but you still have to convince a character whose build is all about spell use to burn a 4th level spell so you can heal, and then hang out while you nick life from him 1d6 at a time. Wild Shape + Life Drain might not use a spell slot, and Druids only need a short rest to recover Wild Shapes so that's not too bad, but it looks like Moon Druids don't exist in this setting, so high-HP shapes aren't going to be as much of a thing. And I'd rule, as a DM, that conjured creatures can defend themselves if they're conjured just to be absorbed by another creature (and also I'd be squinting at the alignment of whoever conjured them. It seems like that is a few shades of evil.)
- Sure, you can incapacitate/capture enemies just to Life Drain them, and honestly I think that's a totally valid thing to try and do if you're willing to play a quite questionable morality. A DM can make that harder for you- throwing creatures at you with higher saves to keep them from falling asleep (and, of course, even if they do- they'll wake up as soon as you do damage to them, and a lot of creatures with less-human body types are hard to restrain), having enemies run once their buddies start to get low on health or giving them hit-and-run tactics if their function is to soften the party up for the boss monster at the end of the adventure, giving enemies Misty Step/Dimension Door gadgets that can get them out of sticky situations before all their energy can be drained from them. Not to make that tactic impossible, just to make it harder, and riskier- after all, if an NPC escapes that situation and reports your character's proclivity for tying humans up and draining them of their energy and vitality to prolong its own life, that can turn a lot of NPC factions against you. And that can be interesting RP-wise and detrimental for your character.
So I don't think it's something that needs to be immediately restricted. Again, I'd give your DM a little wiggle-room in case things start to get out of hand with it, but I certainly think it's a thing that can be managed, and a thing that could present its own RP possibilities.
A few interesting situations came up!
Personally, I wouldn't mind how you deal with leftovers from an encounter. If you can Hold Person someone and drain him to death, that's good usage of your skills/abilities/powers. I don't think it warrants further limitations, at least within the context of the setting you're playing.
The rest of the fringe cases, I'd leave to the DM. I would probably half the gain from summoned creatures (you still have to expend resources for most of those, such as the spell to summon them, but they're "on demand"), or perhaps limit the healing from such so that it can only bring you up to half your max hp. For the much more interesting (and exploitable) Druid case, I am not certain. Perhaps I'd keep track of the damage to deal it to the Druid after he reverts - you're nor harming his body, you're draining his soul.
This raised a lot more discussion than I anticipated! Thanks all for your help, it's been really useful. In my group's case I think it'll probably work out; it's a small party and we're starting at a decently high level. I like Onyx's fix to the druid issue a lot, although right now we don't have a druid so it shouldn't even come up anytime soon. (If anything the aetherborn will end up being a druid, by the looks of the party) So far no one else in the play group seems concerned about it, esp. since I'm not much of a power gamer, so I'll keep all of your ideas in mind in case something weird comes up!