The cartographer subclass to me is the most interesting option as far a unique play style, but unfortunately falls flat with some of its features in play especially in combat, as such i came up with 3 changes that i think really will make it both more fun and more in line with the other sub classes as far as power-level is concerned. These changes would be to the level 5 and 15 subclass feature and a tweak to the spell storing item at 11.
Cartographer level 5 is solely dependent onlanding faerie fire before it does anything so sometimes you will not even have a damage boost like all other artificer sub classes get and requires a round to set up before it works, this version would still require the setup but then gives a stronger boost and encourages team play and coordination which makes sense for the subclass
For cartographer level 5 change wording to "Once per turn, whenever you cast a spell from your Cartographer Spells list or a map holder hits a creature affected by your Faerie Fire with an attack roll, you can add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of the spell or attack.In addition, taking damage can’t cause you to lose Concentration on Faerie Fire." This would make it so that you are pushing further into the support role and gives the damage to those you are "plotting a course for" and gives a buff to the damage output when it relies on a creature failing the save to do anything meaning sometimes it will still do no damage but when it does your getting more out of it. It also has the added benefit of making the map more beneficial to martials when the level 3 part of the map benefits casters more with the blind casting.
The next change some people think this is already how it works so might not even be a change depending on dm but for cartographer its more needed as their level 3 spells are overall much weaker than the other sub-classes get for that slot. For artificer level 11 - "Level 1 and 2 spells can be put in the item as if they were cast at level 3"
Finally at level 15 if the class assumes you need to be casting a concentration spell for any of your features to work giving you a conflicting concentration spell seems like a feels bad move. For cartographer 15 - Replace find the path with scatter as the once a day spell you get.
Please let me know what people think of these changes, i know the level 5 especially may be too much but it also has a major tradeoff and you can almost assume it will never work on the bbeg.
For the record, the level 5 feature doesn't require casting Faerie Fire first; it can also be triggered by casting any of the damaging spells from the subclass spells list, which are Guiding Bolt, Mind Spike, and Call Lightning. That said, I do like the idea of the damage bonus applying to other map holders as well.
Yea i left that part in but maybe it should be removed for my version, that said, I would say guiding bolt is an ok spell and the other 2 are not great so getting bonus damage on them probably still doesn't make them worth casting.
Doing the math, that's potentially +4 damage (or even +5) for up to 4 additional attacks per round, if Faerie Fire is cast and the target fails the save and the rest of the party targets the enemy.
I seem to always cast Faerie Fire on creatures that make the save which is maybe coloring my view here. Seems like it raises the stakes of that save quite a bit - either you annihilate the enemy or it doesn't make any difference at all. On the other hand, it's probably only a great Wheee moment, like a super crit, rather than a big power increase.
As maybe an alternate way to increase utility, I might be inclined to allow a cartographer enough maps to track everyone in the party, or maybe a secondary tracking tier of people who can be tracked by the cartographer but not have all the benefits. It's kind of annoying that in a party of 4-5 you'd possibly be able to give a map to everyone but in a larger party you would have to choose.
Yea it definitely increases the power if it hits, but that's the trade off, every other artificer gets their bonus automatically, cartographer is save dependent but then more powerful if it works. And i agree that it increases the power of faerie fire as you level and your bonus goes up but its a class built around a first level spell disincentivizing you to cast higher level concentration spells, if that's how the class wants you to play i figure it makes sense to make doing that feel good. Granting advantage is way easier in 2024 than 2014 rules so the spell is inherently weaker than it used to be this change makes that spell still hold up as you level up. The other thing is that it will all but guarantee it will never work against bbeg since legendary resistance but then can give the team bonuses to clear out any minions in a fight.
Its possible that what would help is making the bonus a d4 to all map holders instead of int bonus? The only issue there is then the bonus damage can crit but that's probably still overall less DPR than int by level 12
For me, the cost of Faerie Fire isn't just the spell slot, but also the action. It's not my go-to unless the enemies seem to have high AC and low dexterity, and/or we're having trouble seeing them. Also helps if they're bunched up.
That the spell also hits your allies in that cube is a significant additional limitation. I think if I were going to modify it, rather than the extra damage you propose, I'd make it so it doesn't hit the cartographer's map holders.
Hey all looking for some feedback.
The cartographer subclass to me is the most interesting option as far a unique play style, but unfortunately falls flat with some of its features in play especially in combat, as such i came up with 3 changes that i think really will make it both more fun and more in line with the other sub classes as far as power-level is concerned. These changes would be to the level 5 and 15 subclass feature and a tweak to the spell storing item at 11.
Cartographer level 5 is solely dependent on landing faerie fire before it does anything so sometimes you will not even have a damage boost like all other artificer sub classes get and requires a round to set up before it works, this version would still require the setup but then gives a stronger boost and encourages team play and coordination which makes sense for the subclass
For cartographer level 5 change wording to "Once per turn, whenever you cast a spell from your Cartographer Spells list or a map holder hits a creature affected by your Faerie Fire with an attack roll, you can add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of the spell or attack. In addition, taking damage can’t cause you to lose Concentration on Faerie Fire." This would make it so that you are pushing further into the support role and gives the damage to those you are "plotting a course for" and gives a buff to the damage output when it relies on a creature failing the save to do anything meaning sometimes it will still do no damage but when it does your getting more out of it. It also has the added benefit of making the map more beneficial to martials when the level 3 part of the map benefits casters more with the blind casting.
The next change some people think this is already how it works so might not even be a change depending on dm but for cartographer its more needed as their level 3 spells are overall much weaker than the other sub-classes get for that slot. For artificer level 11 - "Level 1 and 2 spells can be put in the item as if they were cast at level 3"
Finally at level 15 if the class assumes you need to be casting a concentration spell for any of your features to work giving you a conflicting concentration spell seems like a feels bad move. For cartographer 15 - Replace find the path with scatter as the once a day spell you get.
Please let me know what people think of these changes, i know the level 5 especially may be too much but it also has a major tradeoff and you can almost assume it will never work on the bbeg.
Thanks,
For the record, the level 5 feature doesn't require casting Faerie Fire first; it can also be triggered by casting any of the damaging spells from the subclass spells list, which are Guiding Bolt, Mind Spike, and Call Lightning. That said, I do like the idea of the damage bonus applying to other map holders as well.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yea i left that part in but maybe it should be removed for my version, that said, I would say guiding bolt is an ok spell and the other 2 are not great so getting bonus damage on them probably still doesn't make them worth casting.
Doing the math, that's potentially +4 damage (or even +5) for up to 4 additional attacks per round, if Faerie Fire is cast and the target fails the save and the rest of the party targets the enemy.
I seem to always cast Faerie Fire on creatures that make the save which is maybe coloring my view here. Seems like it raises the stakes of that save quite a bit - either you annihilate the enemy or it doesn't make any difference at all. On the other hand, it's probably only a great Wheee moment, like a super crit, rather than a big power increase.
As maybe an alternate way to increase utility, I might be inclined to allow a cartographer enough maps to track everyone in the party, or maybe a secondary tracking tier of people who can be tracked by the cartographer but not have all the benefits. It's kind of annoying that in a party of 4-5 you'd possibly be able to give a map to everyone but in a larger party you would have to choose.
Yea it definitely increases the power if it hits, but that's the trade off, every other artificer gets their bonus automatically, cartographer is save dependent but then more powerful if it works. And i agree that it increases the power of faerie fire as you level and your bonus goes up but its a class built around a first level spell disincentivizing you to cast higher level concentration spells, if that's how the class wants you to play i figure it makes sense to make doing that feel good. Granting advantage is way easier in 2024 than 2014 rules so the spell is inherently weaker than it used to be this change makes that spell still hold up as you level up. The other thing is that it will all but guarantee it will never work against bbeg since legendary resistance but then can give the team bonuses to clear out any minions in a fight.
Its possible that what would help is making the bonus a d4 to all map holders instead of int bonus? The only issue there is then the bonus damage can crit but that's probably still overall less DPR than int by level 12
For me, the cost of Faerie Fire isn't just the spell slot, but also the action. It's not my go-to unless the enemies seem to have high AC and low dexterity, and/or we're having trouble seeing them. Also helps if they're bunched up.
That the spell also hits your allies in that cube is a significant additional limitation. I think if I were going to modify it, rather than the extra damage you propose, I'd make it so it doesn't hit the cartographer's map holders.
Good point, thanks.