As soon as I saw "Reckless Attack- This is useless" I kinda lost interest to be honest.
That ability (especially with your higher than normal AC) is still absolutely great. Not sure how anyone can look at it and say its useless.
It's useless for a Dexterity Barbarian because Reckless only applies to Strength based attacks.
It could make strength based attacks by a dex based barbarian as tempting or more so.
I mean, only having +1 or +2 and advantage on a str weapon with bigger damage dice and rage damage hangs out in the same neighborhood as just using a rapier... but you also get to take advantage of having high AC.
Edit: it makes your barbarian capable of using strength and dex based weapons to some decent efficiency.
I imagine most people making a Dexterity Barbarian will be dumping Strength so they're more likely to have a -1 or a 0 modifier - vs a 3+ for a Rapier. Since Advantage averages to a benefit of roughly 4 (actual benefit depends on the number you need to roll) - it would be about even. And given that Reckless makes you get attacked at advantage - not using it would be wiser - even with a higher AC.
I imagine most people making a Dexterity Barbarian will be dumping Strength so they're more likely to have a -1 or a 0 modifier - vs a 3+ for a Rapier. Since Advantage averages to a benefit of roughly 4 (actual benefit depends on the number you need to roll) - it would be about even. And given that Reckless makes you get attacked at advantage - not using it would be wiser - even with a higher AC.
Unless you are in a scenario where you are at DIS anyway or facing a high AC opponent. In either of those cases your DPR would be much higher with Reckless.
Its not as ALWAYS useful as on a STR barbarian but its far from useless.
I imagine most people making a Dexterity Barbarian will be dumping Strength so they're more likely to have a -1 or a 0 modifier - vs a 3+ for a Rapier. Since Advantage averages to a benefit of roughly 4 (actual benefit depends on the number you need to roll) - it would be about even. And given that Reckless makes you get attacked at advantage - not using it would be wiser - even with a higher AC.
Why would we assume a dex barbarian is totally dumping strength if they can actively benefit from it in using all the weapons equally well, and attempt to abuse reckless attack?
Getting attacked at advantage isn't ideal, but that is more of an argument against reckless attack as a feature altogether. But its part of the Barbarian repetoire because they can take a hit and want to sponge up damage... which they do even better via high AC.
If you're not dumping strength as a Dexterity Barbarian then you may as well just be a Strength Barbarian - because you would be close enough to do that anyway - and it would be better than being Dexterity based - because of Reckless and Rage damage bonus and so on.
If you're not dumping strength as a Dexterity Barbarian then you may as well just be a Strength Barbarian - because you would be close enough to do that anyway - and it would be better than being Dexterity based - because of Reckless and Rage damage bonus and so on.
If you're close enough anyways and you want to enjoy the advantages of a high dex, then why bother playing strength based? That argument goes both ways.
Of course the build isn't hyper optimized to swing a str. based weapon for as much damage as absolutely possible. But the difference isn't that massive either. Its a viable build that can take you to heavy armor levels of AC without too great a sacrifice of offensive ability.
One would assume rapier in this case as its the best melee dex weapon available. However, there is a huge lack of discussion around ranged weapons. Do you use them? if so what do you use?
Honestly if you are playing this build to do ranged weapons it kind of boggles my mind as there are so many better options out there...but its technically possible I guess.
2. Example Builds
This generally helps get the point across and how you foresee the build coming to reality.
For a lot of people it's not about optimising. It's about theme. If the theme is playing a Dexterity Barbarian - whether that's ranged or melee - then they're not going to want to swing around heavy Strength weapons half the time - it would break character.
Actually, thinking about an example build, I would be tempted to just halt with Barbarian at levels 4 or 8, and muticlass into fighter or maybe even rogue. I would already have a decent number of rages, reckless attack, a subclass ability, advantage on dex saves, and great unarmored defense.
So 4 levels of dex barb into rogue could make a terribly tanky rogue. This could especially work well with ambushes, since Danger Sense would give advantage to a barb/rogue in initiative.
Edit: Reckless Attack would also proc sneak attack if using a finesse weapon
Or 8 levels of dex barb and then 4 into fighter/battlemaster for more damage and tricks in combat and a more dps kind of build.
For a lot of people it's not about optimising. It's about theme. If the theme is playing a Dexterity Barbarian - whether that's ranged or melee - then they're not going to want to swing around heavy Strength weapons half the time - it would break character.
The theme doesn't really match either is the problem....a DEX based barbarian is fairly against theme overall as the vast majority of features encourage you to use STR.
This falls into the "Purposefully unoptimized" category of builds that I generally find distasteful. They are as much (or in my experience much more so) disruptive as they generally underperform to the level its pretty clear to the rest of the party and call it out. "Lol he's so bad at being a barbarian! Isn't that funny?"
Granted this is my own opinion and if someone enjoys it immensely and trys to play it for the story/character sake I would not mind having it in the game. But if the purpose for it is some convoluted attempt to "Prove" it works I would just suggest they roll up a different character.
Actually, thinking about an example build, I would be tempted to just halt with Barbarian at levels 4 or 8, and muticlass into fighter or maybe even rogue. I would already have a decent number of rages, reckless attack, a subclass ability, advantage on dex saves, and great unarmored defense.
So 4 levels of dex barb into rogue could make a terribly tanky rogue. This could especially work well with ambushes, since Danger Sense would give advantage to a barb/rogue in initiative.
Edit: Reckless Attack would also proc sneak attack if using a finesse weapon
Or 8 levels of dex barb and then 4 into fighter/battlemaster for more damage and tricks in combat and a more dps kind of build.
and with BA disengage you could get out of their before they even have a chance to hit you with ADV.....
Obviously they didn't think the synergy through all the way.
Actually, thinking about an example build, I would be tempted to just halt with Barbarian at levels 4 or 8, and muticlass into fighter or maybe even rogue. I would already have a decent number of rages, reckless attack, a subclass ability, advantage on dex saves, and great unarmored defense.
So 4 levels of dex barb into rogue could make a terribly tanky rogue. This could especially work well with ambushes, since Danger Sense would give advantage to a barb/rogue in initiative.
Edit: Reckless Attack would also proc sneak attack if using a finesse weapon
Or 8 levels of dex barb and then 4 into fighter/battlemaster for more damage and tricks in combat and a more dps kind of build.
and with BA disengage you could get out of their before they even have a chance to hit you with ADV.....
Obviously they didn't think the synergy through all the way.
I'm guessing you know this, but just in case, it would have to be a strength-based Rogue.
Actually, thinking about an example build, I would be tempted to just halt with Barbarian at levels 4 or 8, and muticlass into fighter or maybe even rogue. I would already have a decent number of rages, reckless attack, a subclass ability, advantage on dex saves, and great unarmored defense.
So 4 levels of dex barb into rogue could make a terribly tanky rogue. This could especially work well with ambushes, since Danger Sense would give advantage to a barb/rogue in initiative.
Edit: Reckless Attack would also proc sneak attack if using a finesse weapon
Or 8 levels of dex barb and then 4 into fighter/battlemaster for more damage and tricks in combat and a more dps kind of build.
and with BA disengage you could get out of their before they even have a chance to hit you with ADV.....
Obviously they didn't think the synergy through all the way.
I'm guessing you know this, but just in case, it would have to be a strength-based Rogue.
Not at all. With just a 14 in strength and reckless attack, it would be as much chance to hit as with a straight dex attack. Its also doubtful that they'll have to depend on it all the time for sneak attack.
I realize that this guide is a couple of years old now but you might want to consider getting the new books and updating it. It's the first guide of its kind that I've seen and it would be a shame if it became obsolete.
Actually, thinking about an example build, I would be tempted to just halt with Barbarian at levels 4 or 8, and muticlass into fighter or maybe even rogue. I would already have a decent number of rages, reckless attack, a subclass ability, advantage on dex saves, and great unarmored defense.
So 4 levels of dex barb into rogue could make a terribly tanky rogue. This could especially work well with ambushes, since Danger Sense would give advantage to a barb/rogue in initiative.
Edit: Reckless Attack would also proc sneak attack if using a finesse weapon
Or 8 levels of dex barb and then 4 into fighter/battlemaster for more damage and tricks in combat and a more dps kind of build.
and with BA disengage you could get out of their before they even have a chance to hit you with ADV.....
Obviously they didn't think the synergy through all the way.
I'm guessing you know this, but just in case, it would have to be a strength-based Rogue.
Not at all. With just a 14 in strength and reckless attack, it would be as much chance to hit as with a straight dex attack. Its also doubtful that they'll have to depend on it all the time for sneak attack.
With less damage, and rogues already have multiple ways to gain advantage. You’re also sacrificing rogue progression and everything that comes with it, including progression in your sneak attack damage dice.
it’s absolutely playable, but straight rogue is more optimal.
It could make strength based attacks by a dex based barbarian as tempting or more so.
I mean, only having +1 or +2 and advantage on a str weapon with bigger damage dice and rage damage hangs out in the same neighborhood as just using a rapier... but you also get to take advantage of having high AC.
Edit: it makes your barbarian capable of using strength and dex based weapons to some decent efficiency.
I imagine most people making a Dexterity Barbarian will be dumping Strength so they're more likely to have a -1 or a 0 modifier - vs a 3+ for a Rapier. Since Advantage averages to a benefit of roughly 4 (actual benefit depends on the number you need to roll) - it would be about even. And given that Reckless makes you get attacked at advantage - not using it would be wiser - even with a higher AC.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Unless you are in a scenario where you are at DIS anyway or facing a high AC opponent. In either of those cases your DPR would be much higher with Reckless.
Its not as ALWAYS useful as on a STR barbarian but its far from useless.
Why would we assume a dex barbarian is totally dumping strength if they can actively benefit from it in using all the weapons equally well, and attempt to abuse reckless attack?
Getting attacked at advantage isn't ideal, but that is more of an argument against reckless attack as a feature altogether. But its part of the Barbarian repetoire because they can take a hit and want to sponge up damage... which they do even better via high AC.
If you're not dumping strength as a Dexterity Barbarian then you may as well just be a Strength Barbarian - because you would be close enough to do that anyway - and it would be better than being Dexterity based - because of Reckless and Rage damage bonus and so on.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
If you're close enough anyways and you want to enjoy the advantages of a high dex, then why bother playing strength based? That argument goes both ways.
Of course the build isn't hyper optimized to swing a str. based weapon for as much damage as absolutely possible. But the difference isn't that massive either. Its a viable build that can take you to heavy armor levels of AC without too great a sacrifice of offensive ability.
Some other thoughts about the guide:
1. Weapon discussion
One would assume rapier in this case as its the best melee dex weapon available. However, there is a huge lack of discussion around ranged weapons. Do you use them? if so what do you use?
Honestly if you are playing this build to do ranged weapons it kind of boggles my mind as there are so many better options out there...but its technically possible I guess.
2. Example Builds
This generally helps get the point across and how you foresee the build coming to reality.
For a lot of people it's not about optimising. It's about theme. If the theme is playing a Dexterity Barbarian - whether that's ranged or melee - then they're not going to want to swing around heavy Strength weapons half the time - it would break character.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Actually, thinking about an example build, I would be tempted to just halt with Barbarian at levels 4 or 8, and muticlass into fighter or maybe even rogue. I would already have a decent number of rages, reckless attack, a subclass ability, advantage on dex saves, and great unarmored defense.
So 4 levels of dex barb into rogue could make a terribly tanky rogue. This could especially work well with ambushes, since Danger Sense would give advantage to a barb/rogue in initiative.
Edit: Reckless Attack would also proc sneak attack if using a finesse weapon
Or 8 levels of dex barb and then 4 into fighter/battlemaster for more damage and tricks in combat and a more dps kind of build.
The theme doesn't really match either is the problem....a DEX based barbarian is fairly against theme overall as the vast majority of features encourage you to use STR.
This falls into the "Purposefully unoptimized" category of builds that I generally find distasteful. They are as much (or in my experience much more so) disruptive as they generally underperform to the level its pretty clear to the rest of the party and call it out. "Lol he's so bad at being a barbarian! Isn't that funny?"
Granted this is my own opinion and if someone enjoys it immensely and trys to play it for the story/character sake I would not mind having it in the game. But if the purpose for it is some convoluted attempt to "Prove" it works I would just suggest they roll up a different character.
and with BA disengage you could get out of their before they even have a chance to hit you with ADV.....
Obviously they didn't think the synergy through all the way.
I'm guessing you know this, but just in case, it would have to be a strength-based Rogue.
Not at all. With just a 14 in strength and reckless attack, it would be as much chance to hit as with a straight dex attack. Its also doubtful that they'll have to depend on it all the time for sneak attack.
I realize that this guide is a couple of years old now but you might want to consider getting the new books and updating it. It's the first guide of its kind that I've seen and it would be a shame if it became obsolete.
With less damage, and rogues already have multiple ways to gain advantage. You’re also sacrificing rogue progression and everything that comes with it, including progression in your sneak attack damage dice.
it’s absolutely playable, but straight rogue is more optimal.
What about Lizardfolks for race? Volos guide to monsters
My lv 5 Lizardfolk Barbarian has an AC of 42 no magic items or spells.
DruidVSAdventure
Check out my Homebrew Class The Evoker
That's impossible
Break down the math or it didn't happen
Nope look at my thread I posted and you will see how I got it.
DruidVSAdventure
Check out my Homebrew Class The Evoker
Look at my thread I posted asking about AC rules to see how I got that unit of AC
DruidVSAdventure
Check out my Homebrew Class The Evoker