Bear totem barbarian is one of the most durable classes in the game, maybe even the most durable. With all that durability comes the potential for enemies to not even bother. Intelligent enemies run straight past to get to the squishy interior. One of the few things that can increase that tanking factor is the sentinel feat. Bear totem with sentinel is a pretty good tank.
I want to avoid bear totem with the next barbarian I make and go ancestral guardians. Ancestral guardians has a great built in tanking ability so I can probably be fairly effective even without sentinel. It also has a consistent way to utilize my reaction, but not so for the bonus action.
I've never played a non-bear barbarian so I don't know how well the rage damage resistance holds up without the bear bonuses. Will I want a shield? Will I want sentinel anyways? How can I utilize my bonus action (shield master or polearm master maybe)? If I go sword and board, will my damage just seem ineffectual (maybe that's okay if my goal is to tank)?
I've never played a non-bear barbarian so I don't know how well the rage damage resistance holds up without the bear bonuses. You should do fine. A lot of the damage monsters deal is bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing, which rage will take care of. Your large HP pool should take care of the rest.
Will I want a shield? I'd say so. Look at my suggestions below.
Will I want sentinel anyways? I would max STR first.
How can I utilize my bonus action (shield master or polearm master maybe)? After 6 levels of barbarian, why not multiclass into Mastermind rogue? That will give you a great use of your bonus action.
If I go sword and board, will my damage just seem ineffectual (maybe that's okay if my goal is to tank)? This is where rogue will help.
I probably wouldn't bother with Sentinel as an Ancestral Guardian Barbarian because it will conflict with Spirit Shield at level 6. At level 14 it conflicts even more because you can do damage with Spirit Shield.
If your tanking, take a shield and medium armor if your loading strength. Otherwise (especially if your going with a starting array and your two highest stats are 15 and 14 before applying racials) make sure Dex and Con are the highest. A tank should mitigate damage not blindly bleed the party dry of healing. Barbarians have a lot of hitpoints, that translates to a large gas tank to refill after a tough fight. Will you do less damage? Yes, own it if you want to be the dedicated line holder. If not your moving yourself into a hybrid skirmisher role.
The only type of creatures you will be less effective against when raging than a bear barbarian that you will encounter often enough to have you rue not being a bear totem are creatures with poison and if your Dm is cruel and / or you are in Ravenloft. Undead dealing necrotic damage. In those circumstances remember that sometimes dodging is better if they are attacking you and not your allies especially if they are applying rider effects like poisoned or str loss or max hp loss - you could lose rage though so before you rage put your arm in mantrap and shake it about each round to take some damage. Problem solved and myth of the berserker so angry he hurts himself to intimidate enemies begun.
If you are going this way, you could take 3 level of fighter and go cavalier.
Gives you unwaverering mark, which is good for tanking (gives disadvantage on attack to other members of the group) AND provide a potential use for extra damage on bonus action (if target attacks someone else than you, you get to do an extra attack with your bonus attack)...
... plus you get to have an action surge and a fighting style to help improve your character (you can tank more with +1 AC, or improve your dps a bit with dueling style for +2 damage per attack, which, with strength and rage will end up being noticeable).
Don't get bogged down by the knight aspect of the cavalier. The "born in the saddle" works great for a Barbarian. I mean, Europe was devastated by a horde of horse riding "barbarians". You'd just be a horse riding protector barbarian. I can see that working :)
I don't think I want to multiclass, at least outside of my warlock plans. I know the restrictions with casting and rage, but I think there's enough synergy to make it work. But now I'm considering the cavalier instead of barbarian entirely. I've already played the luchador barbarian/rogue, and it's awesome.
You have convinced me that I will probably want a shield. I was considering the dual-wielder feat for a time, but the future possibility of getting a shield with some kind of bonus makes dual-wielder less attractive even if it allow some additional damage.
I play an Ancestral Spirit barbarian. She has a shield, Sentinel, and now Shield Master. Even though Sentinel "conflicts" with Ancestral Spirits, Ancestral Spirits won't help you if all attention is on you. Sentinel can keep someone stuck like glue on you, and let's you throw in a little extra damage if they swing and miss your friend, opening up to the Sentinel Reaction Attack.
Bonus action is not used aside from raging, which was largely why I took Shield Master. The ability to shove at advantage during a rage is a huge draw. The added defense is icing on the cake. Also many items can be activated as a bonus action.
I play an Ancestral Spirit barbarian. She has a shield, Sentinel, and now Shield Master. Even though Sentinel "conflicts" with Ancestral Spirits, Ancestral Spirits won't help you if all attention is on you. Sentinel can keep someone stuck like glue on you, and let's you throw in a little extra damage if they swing and miss your friend, opening up to the Sentinel Reaction Attack.
Bonus action is not used aside from raging, which was largely why I took Shield Master. The ability to shove at advantage during a rage is a huge draw. The added defense is icing on the cake. Also many items can be activated as a bonus action.
It's got a lot of complexity, but a ton of fun.
I don't get why in the first paragraph you mention that Ancestral Spirits don't help you if you are targeted by all foes. Yet I don't see how Sentinel would help there, either. Yet if you are getting all the agro, well, than you are tanking! So this should be a good thing.
I do see Shield Master helping out: improving your AC and knocking people prone with the shove action is also useful to limit their mobility. Thanks for pointing out that the shove action is opposed athletics, I always think of it as an attack, since it can replace an attack in the attack action. Yet, as I read the wording of Shield Master: "If you take the Attack action on your turn..." [Edit: it's only after all attacks are made] I wonder if you can Shove as a bonus action before, in between or only after the complete Attack action. The wording would have been better: if you have taken the Attack action because I can't imagine that you are allowed to shove first to gain advantage if you successfully knock you opponent prone.
I really like your build, it seems a very effective Tank.
Yes getting all aggro is a good thing. It just does not trigger Ancestral Spirits. And they fight over your reaction.
The shove is supposed to come after your action, and not between. Only movement is supposed to break up your attacks but most people won’t bug you about it.
Bear totem barbarian is one of the most durable classes in the game, maybe even the most durable. With all that durability comes the potential for enemies to not even bother. Intelligent enemies run straight past to get to the squishy interior. One of the few things that can increase that tanking factor is the sentinel feat. Bear totem with sentinel is a pretty good tank.
I want to avoid bear totem with the next barbarian I make and go ancestral guardians. Ancestral guardians has a great built in tanking ability so I can probably be fairly effective even without sentinel. It also has a consistent way to utilize my reaction, but not so for the bonus action.
I've never played a non-bear barbarian so I don't know how well the rage damage resistance holds up without the bear bonuses. Will I want a shield? Will I want sentinel anyways? How can I utilize my bonus action (shield master or polearm master maybe)? If I go sword and board, will my damage just seem ineffectual (maybe that's okay if my goal is to tank)?
As an Ancestral Guardian, you have a really excellent reaction (especially once you get Vengeful Ancestors). Also, your allies have Resistance against Attacks of all damage types (even Psychic) and Disadvantage to be hit and damage reduction and retribution from your reaction. Basically, unlike a Bear Totem Barbarian, you don't really need to redirect attacks to yourself. If anything, you want enemies to be attacking your allies sometimes, to the point that you might occasionally do things like ping someone with a javelin and run out of range. Your wards really are that good. Also, if you really want enemies to stay put, you can just prone/grapple them.
I'd put a higher priority on things like Resilient, since making an Ancestral Guardian fail a Wisdom save is one of the easiest ways to dislodge an otherwise suffocating lockdown.
Regarding PAM vs Sword and Board:
PAM is good, but you already have a top shelf reaction without it, and its impact on your damage contribution is limited by the fact that activating Rage takes up your first turn bonus action. As nice as GWM/PAM is, you only have so many ASIs; with point buy and any race other than VHuman you wouldn't be able to get max strength + PAM + GWM until level 16. And that'd leave you without things like Resilient (Wisdom), which can very easily lead to use losing turns and the like.
Sword and board allows you to set up a situation where everyone in the party is an undesirable target. And the DPR isn't as far behind PAM/GWM as you might suspect, if you build well (math provided in the link above). Just to get an idea, if you take PAM/GWM instead of +4 Strength, you're basically at -7 to hit / +8 damage. You'll also have a notably worse AC, which matters since your allies might actually not be better targets than you (thanks to your spirits). And you'll be worse at shoving/grappling and have worse Strength saves. And PAM/GWM won't make any difference at all on attacks where you're kiting with javelins, shoving, grappling, etc.
Going VHuman can help a lot with the PAM/GWM route though.
Multiclassing notes:
A 1-level dip in Rogue will give you some sneak attack (you can sneak attack with a rapier even if you're using Strength to attack) and expertise on Athletics, essentially making your shoves/grapples guaranteed (between 20 Strength / Advantage / Expertise).
3 levels in Battle Master will give you a fighting style, Action Surge, and a bunch of useful maneuvers. It gives you a chance to dish out some real nova damage, even as a sword and board type. And gives you even more tools for locking down enemies, both in melee and at range.
I wonder if you can Shove as a bonus action before, in between or only after the complete Attack action.
After. After you've completed the action.
If you feel like wading through multiple pages of grown adults yelling at each other over whether you can claim something has been done before it's actually been done, there's a spectacularly horrible thread on the subject that you can search for.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Tanking as a barbarian comes down to what kind of barbarian are you playing?
If your a Berserker. Your offense is your parties defense. The point here is to do enough damage and cause enough disruption and destruction that the enemy CAN'T ignore you because you will take apart their support, their backline, and/or their front line faster than they can take down yours. Your also immune after a certain point to some things that would stop you from doing that and rely on your party to handle the rest. Berserkers are good at being the biggest target in the room out of sheer need to mitigate them somehow.
Bear Totem is well known as a strong personal defense and then your goal is to just turn as much attention into that defense as possible. That's not entirely different to what many fighter class tanks do anyway.
Things like Wolf Totem(or a couple others) and Spirit Guardian. their tanking really is in benefits to the group and working with the group to maximise those while also applying penalties to the enemies trying to take advantage of the group. It's Teamwork tanking. There are times where your better off if the enemy isn't actually going after you and then for the big enemies that are going to really hurt squishies you've still got the health pool to get up in something's face and take it toe to toe while the party pours resources into you instead.
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Bear totem barbarian is one of the most durable classes in the game, maybe even the most durable. With all that durability comes the potential for enemies to not even bother. Intelligent enemies run straight past to get to the squishy interior. One of the few things that can increase that tanking factor is the sentinel feat. Bear totem with sentinel is a pretty good tank.
I want to avoid bear totem with the next barbarian I make and go ancestral guardians. Ancestral guardians has a great built in tanking ability so I can probably be fairly effective even without sentinel. It also has a consistent way to utilize my reaction, but not so for the bonus action.
I've never played a non-bear barbarian so I don't know how well the rage damage resistance holds up without the bear bonuses. Will I want a shield? Will I want sentinel anyways? How can I utilize my bonus action (shield master or polearm master maybe)? If I go sword and board, will my damage just seem ineffectual (maybe that's okay if my goal is to tank)?
You should do fine. A lot of the damage monsters deal is bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing, which rage will take care of. Your large HP pool should take care of the rest.
I'd say so. Look at my suggestions below.
I would max STR first.
After 6 levels of barbarian, why not multiclass into Mastermind rogue? That will give you a great use of your bonus action.
This is where rogue will help.
I probably wouldn't bother with Sentinel as an Ancestral Guardian Barbarian because it will conflict with Spirit Shield at level 6. At level 14 it conflicts even more because you can do damage with Spirit Shield.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
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If your tanking, take a shield and medium armor if your loading strength. Otherwise (especially if your going with a starting array and your two highest stats are 15 and 14 before applying racials) make sure Dex and Con are the highest. A tank should mitigate damage not blindly bleed the party dry of healing. Barbarians have a lot of hitpoints, that translates to a large gas tank to refill after a tough fight. Will you do less damage? Yes, own it if you want to be the dedicated line holder. If not your moving yourself into a hybrid skirmisher role.
The only type of creatures you will be less effective against when raging than a bear barbarian that you will encounter often enough to have you rue not being a bear totem are creatures with poison and if your Dm is cruel and / or you are in Ravenloft. Undead dealing necrotic damage. In those circumstances remember that sometimes dodging is better if they are attacking you and not your allies especially if they are applying rider effects like poisoned or str loss or max hp loss - you could lose rage though so before you rage put your arm in mantrap and shake it about each round to take some damage. Problem solved and myth of the berserker so angry he hurts himself to intimidate enemies begun.
Have fun.
#edited for a face palming spelling error
If you are going this way, you could take 3 level of fighter and go cavalier.
Gives you unwaverering mark, which is good for tanking (gives disadvantage on attack to other members of the group) AND provide a potential use for extra damage on bonus action (if target attacks someone else than you, you get to do an extra attack with your bonus attack)...
... plus you get to have an action surge and a fighting style to help improve your character (you can tank more with +1 AC, or improve your dps a bit with dueling style for +2 damage per attack, which, with strength and rage will end up being noticeable).
Don't get bogged down by the knight aspect of the cavalier. The "born in the saddle" works great for a Barbarian. I mean, Europe was devastated by a horde of horse riding "barbarians". You'd just be a horse riding protector barbarian. I can see that working :)
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I don't think I want to multiclass, at least outside of my warlock plans. I know the restrictions with casting and rage, but I think there's enough synergy to make it work. But now I'm considering the cavalier instead of barbarian entirely. I've already played the luchador barbarian/rogue, and it's awesome.
You have convinced me that I will probably want a shield. I was considering the dual-wielder feat for a time, but the future possibility of getting a shield with some kind of bonus makes dual-wielder less attractive even if it allow some additional damage.
I play an Ancestral Spirit barbarian. She has a shield, Sentinel, and now Shield Master. Even though Sentinel "conflicts" with Ancestral Spirits, Ancestral Spirits won't help you if all attention is on you. Sentinel can keep someone stuck like glue on you, and let's you throw in a little extra damage if they swing and miss your friend, opening up to the Sentinel Reaction Attack.
Bonus action is not used aside from raging, which was largely why I took Shield Master. The ability to shove at advantage during a rage is a huge draw. The added defense is icing on the cake. Also many items can be activated as a bonus action.
It's got a lot of complexity, but a ton of fun.
Formatting Tooltips, because I always forget
I don't get why in the first paragraph you mention that Ancestral Spirits don't help you if you are targeted by all foes. Yet I don't see how Sentinel would help there, either. Yet if you are getting all the agro, well, than you are tanking! So this should be a good thing.
I do see Shield Master helping out: improving your AC and knocking people prone with the shove action is also useful to limit their mobility.
Thanks for pointing out that the shove action is opposed athletics, I always think of it as an attack, since it can replace an attack in the attack action. Yet, as I read the wording of Shield Master: "If you take the Attack action on your turn..." [Edit: it's only after all attacks are made] I wonder if you can Shove as a bonus action before, in between or only after the complete Attack action. The wording would have been better: if you have taken the Attack action because I can't imagine that you are allowed to shove first to gain advantage if you successfully knock you opponent prone.
I really like your build, it seems a very effective Tank.
Yes getting all aggro is a good thing. It just does not trigger Ancestral Spirits. And they fight over your reaction.
The shove is supposed to come after your action, and not between. Only movement is supposed to break up your attacks but most people won’t bug you about it.
Formatting Tooltips, because I always forget
Here's one very effective way of doing an Ancestral Guardian: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23917496&postcount=103
Regarding Sentinel:
I wouldn't recommend Sentinel, and here's why:
As an Ancestral Guardian, you have a really excellent reaction (especially once you get Vengeful Ancestors). Also, your allies have Resistance against Attacks of all damage types (even Psychic) and Disadvantage to be hit and damage reduction and retribution from your reaction. Basically, unlike a Bear Totem Barbarian, you don't really need to redirect attacks to yourself. If anything, you want enemies to be attacking your allies sometimes, to the point that you might occasionally do things like ping someone with a javelin and run out of range. Your wards really are that good. Also, if you really want enemies to stay put, you can just prone/grapple them.
I'd put a higher priority on things like Resilient, since making an Ancestral Guardian fail a Wisdom save is one of the easiest ways to dislodge an otherwise suffocating lockdown.
Regarding PAM vs Sword and Board:
PAM is good, but you already have a top shelf reaction without it, and its impact on your damage contribution is limited by the fact that activating Rage takes up your first turn bonus action. As nice as GWM/PAM is, you only have so many ASIs; with point buy and any race other than VHuman you wouldn't be able to get max strength + PAM + GWM until level 16. And that'd leave you without things like Resilient (Wisdom), which can very easily lead to use losing turns and the like.
Sword and board allows you to set up a situation where everyone in the party is an undesirable target. And the DPR isn't as far behind PAM/GWM as you might suspect, if you build well (math provided in the link above). Just to get an idea, if you take PAM/GWM instead of +4 Strength, you're basically at -7 to hit / +8 damage. You'll also have a notably worse AC, which matters since your allies might actually not be better targets than you (thanks to your spirits). And you'll be worse at shoving/grappling and have worse Strength saves. And PAM/GWM won't make any difference at all on attacks where you're kiting with javelins, shoving, grappling, etc.
Going VHuman can help a lot with the PAM/GWM route though.
Multiclassing notes:
A 1-level dip in Rogue will give you some sneak attack (you can sneak attack with a rapier even if you're using Strength to attack) and expertise on Athletics, essentially making your shoves/grapples guaranteed (between 20 Strength / Advantage / Expertise).
3 levels in Battle Master will give you a fighting style, Action Surge, and a bunch of useful maneuvers. It gives you a chance to dish out some real nova damage, even as a sword and board type. And gives you even more tools for locking down enemies, both in melee and at range.
Ludic: adjective (formal). showing spontaneous and undirected playfulness.
After. After you've completed the action.
If you feel like wading through multiple pages of grown adults yelling at each other over whether you can claim something has been done before it's actually been done, there's a spectacularly horrible thread on the subject that you can search for.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Tanking as a barbarian comes down to what kind of barbarian are you playing?
If your a Berserker. Your offense is your parties defense. The point here is to do enough damage and cause enough disruption and destruction that the enemy CAN'T ignore you because you will take apart their support, their backline, and/or their front line faster than they can take down yours. Your also immune after a certain point to some things that would stop you from doing that and rely on your party to handle the rest. Berserkers are good at being the biggest target in the room out of sheer need to mitigate them somehow.
Bear Totem is well known as a strong personal defense and then your goal is to just turn as much attention into that defense as possible. That's not entirely different to what many fighter class tanks do anyway.
Things like Wolf Totem(or a couple others) and Spirit Guardian. their tanking really is in benefits to the group and working with the group to maximise those while also applying penalties to the enemies trying to take advantage of the group. It's Teamwork tanking. There are times where your better off if the enemy isn't actually going after you and then for the big enemies that are going to really hurt squishies you've still got the health pool to get up in something's face and take it toe to toe while the party pours resources into you instead.