I'd write a backstory and see what fits best, but I've found Swords to be powerful and fun, especially if you take Tenser's transformation as one of your 14th level magical secrets.
I read over the different bards and it seems that the swords bard is kinda selfish with their bardic inspiration. And I wanted to play a more controller and utility role. Is there a way I could play the swords bard to fit that niche and focus on giving out the bardic inspiration to the other party members?
I read over the different bards and it seems that the swords bard is kinda selfish with their bardic inspiration. And I wanted to play a more controller and utility role. Is there a way I could play the swords bard to fit that niche and focus on giving out the bardic inspiration to the other party members?
I don't know, really. Most subclasses are good for support and I haven't played as many bards as I'd like.
Just here to out my two cents in. I always like to play a subclass that's uncommon, to do something different. Whispers Bards are hard to play sometimes, but the reward flavor wise, RP wise, and the moments you kick butt with Psychic Blades and outrogue the rogue with your subclass abilities feels great. So far thanks to my abilities and being able to use my Inspiration dice for my allies and to do damage I've been instrumental to my party's success multiple times.
I don't think there is a "best" College as much as one that is best suited for the specific character. You said you want to make a controller and utility character? Well the Bard class as a whole tends towards control and utility. You were right that the College that supports that playstyle the least is the College of Swords, so we can probably cut that one out, but literally every single other College is good for different flavors of control and utility.
Creation - Kind of a pet class, but can also do overtly magical seeming support using their Bardic Inspiration to fuel their Mote of Potential, so pick this College if you want to use your music to summon obviously enchanting effects like glowing motes the buff people or literally making furniture come to life and dance like the Sorcerer's Apprentice.
Eloquence - Starts off very very good at control, with a minimum of 10 to Persuasion and Deception rolls as well as the ability to convince enemies to fail their saving throws. Then a little later you get much better at utility with your Bardic Inspiration not going away if they fail the roll.
Glamour - Another takes on control and utility, a Glamour Bard is going to control enemies with sheer charismatic power. Also has a very good mobility option in combat, allowing a Glamour Bard to serve as a good leader/tactician in combat.
Lore - Probably the most versatile of the bunch, Lore gets a lot of utility from extra skill proficiencies and control from Cutting Words. The Extra Magical Secrets makes Lore Bards able to specialize even further with spells gleaned from any spell list. At 6th level you can learn any spell up to 3rd level. Imagine the difference between a Lore Bard that picks say, Conjure Animals compared to one that picks Aura of Vitality.
Valor - Probably not as much control and utility as you're looking for, but even here the option to support your party's damage with your Bardic Inspiration is a decent option.
Whispers - Control and utility geared more toward social intimidation, deception, and manipulation. Notice that you can whisper into someone's ear and make them afraid of another creature of your choice. They don't even have to be there. Great for planting seeds of discord or stacking the deck in your favor ahead of a confrontation. Takes some subtlety and skill to use, but hey that's what the College is about.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I would pick lore, since they get additional magical secrets at 6th level (Around when spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt are coming into play). Their cutting words ability is also very powerful. They also get more skills. The peerless skill is okay too, allowing you to almost NEVER fail on ability checks. Overall, it fits the classic bard perfectly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Erean Cabenrith a Variant Human Cleric (Light Domain)
Definitely glamour bard if you desire to use your inspiration for the party and have control. I am currently playing one in Princes of the Apocalypse, and I have complete control over allies and enemies alike.
I feel the Lord Bard is the Bard's Bard; the best.
A Bard is not going to be a fighter like a 'fighter class' character can be. But a bard can do some great things supporting the other party members in combat, and is fantastic out of combat as the face of the party and the skills. Being a Charisma build with plenty of proficiencies he can become the best Persuader, Intimidator and Deceiver, and still have skill proficiencies left over for some dex based skills, particularly if you don't have a Rogue in the party. Give him the right background and he gets proficiency with Thief's Tools.
The Lore Bard get two extra early Magical Secrets at 6th level, one of the things that make Bards a great class. At 6th level you can grab the popular Counterspell well before other Bard subclasses.
The use of Cutting Words is a GREAT way to make use of Bardic Inspiration.
Unless you've already played a Lore Bard, I strongly recommend you give it a shot.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Control and utility sounds like Creation, since you can literally make any item your party may need (with some limitations on size and monetary value) and then your Dancing Item puts another creature on the board that can also slow down or speed up other creatures.
All bards are going to have a decent amount of control and utility because that's kind of what the base class is all about. Swords and Valor are the two subs that aren't geared towards it. Lore and Eloquence are probably the mechanically superior choices, but I don't think that means Glamour, Creation or Whispers can't lead to extremely enjoyable (and powerful) characters with a similar playstyle goal.
I'm a huge fan of Creation Bards myself. Open ended creation abilities have utility out the wazoo. They can also animate a large object into a large, flying object, which can then serve as a mount. Access to a large sized flyer is quite rare in 5E. You can also pull off some amazing control against armored enemies. Animate the armor and have it float in the air, all the while beating the poor levitating bastard to death. Summons in general are great for control and Animating Performance definitely delivers.
I don't think there is a "best" College as much as one that is best suited for the specific character. You said you want to make a controller and utility character? Well the Bard class as a whole tends towards control and utility. You were right that the College that supports that playstyle the least is the College of Swords, so we can probably cut that one out, but literally every single other College is good for different flavors of control and utility.
Creation - Kind of a pet class, but can also do overtly magical seeming support using their Bardic Inspiration to fuel their Mote of Potential, so pick this College if you want to use your music to summon obviously enchanting effects like glowing motes the buff people or literally making furniture come to life and dance like the Sorcerer's Apprentice.
Eloquence - Starts off very very good at control, with a minimum of 10 to Persuasion and Deception rolls as well as the ability to convince enemies to fail their saving throws. Then a little later you get much better at utility with your Bardic Inspiration not going away if they fail the roll.
Glamour - Another takes on control and utility, a Glamour Bard is going to control enemies with sheer charismatic power. Also has a very good mobility option in combat, allowing a Glamour Bard to serve as a good leader/tactician in combat.
Lore - Probably the most versatile of the bunch, Lore gets a lot of utility from extra skill proficiencies and control from Cutting Words. The Extra Magical Secrets makes Lore Bards able to specialize even further with spells gleaned from any spell list. At 6th level you can learn any spell up to 3rd level. Imagine the difference between a Lore Bard that picks say, Conjure Animals compared to one that picks Aura of Vitality.
Valor - Probably not as much control and utility as you're looking for, but even here the option to support your party's damage with your Bardic Inspiration is a decent option.
Whispers - Control and utility geared more toward social intimidation, deception, and manipulation. Notice that you can whisper into someone's ear and make them afraid of another creature of your choice. They don't even have to be there. Great for planting seeds of discord or stacking the deck in your favor ahead of a confrontation. Takes some subtlety and skill to use, but hey that's what the College is about.
Let's get this out of the way: Valor bards suck and they're not going to stop sucking any time soon. Whisper bards are also quite, quite bad.
Lore and Eloquence are the top of the heap, and Creation and Glamour are both quite good. Swords are beneath all four, and Valor and Whispers are both worse than Swords.
I read over the different bards and it seems that the swords bard is kinda selfish with their bardic inspiration. And I wanted to play a more controller and utility role. Is there a way I could play the swords bard to fit that niche and focus on giving out the bardic inspiration to the other party members?
Yes, of course. Lore Bards are Swords Bards but better when it comes to defending the party against attacks, because instead of adding bardic inspiration to your own AC, you can debuff any incoming attack from a nearby attacker (attack roll or damage roll, your choice). Creation Bards are Swords Bards but better when it comes to handing out extra damage - you'll buff a friend's attack roll and add AOE Thunder damage that's resisted with a Constitution save. And yes, Thunder damage will murder lycanthropes and ghosts.
Let's get this out of the way: Valor bards suck and they're not going to stop sucking any time soon. Whisper bards are also quite, quite bad.
Lore and Eloquence are the top of the heap, and Creation and Glamour are both quite good. Swords are beneath all four, and Valor and Whispers are both worse than Swords.
This is all pretty subjective of course, but I will point out that the College of Swords does nothing that synergizes with the Bard class, except for using weapons as a spellcasting focus, which eases up some of the need for War Caster. Take it from someone whose favorite character is a Swords Bard, all the martial abilities gained form the subclass only bring you up to the effectiveness of like a third of a martial class and also do nothing to help you Bard better. Valor is kind of boring, but at least it adds a feature that makes you a better Bard. Again, while Swords is my favorite Bard College, mechanically it's the worst at actually being a Bard and doesn't make up for it by making you an effective martial class either.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I don't think either Swords or Valor were written to make the character a "better Bard", because I think Bards are support when they are being a Bard during an encounter, unless it is a talkie-talkie encounter. Swords and Valor were written to allow the Bard to be a little more Martial; they add armor and weapon proficiencies and they allow the bard to use Bardic Inspiration on themselves to enhance themselves as martial members of the team.
All Bard classes are fine. It is how you enjoy playing as a bard that matters which sub-class you want to play. Some Bards are better at supporting the party while they do the killing, and some bards have other things they can do that are a little less focused on aiding other party members.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I don't think either Swords or Valor were written to make the character a "better Bard", because I think Bards are support when they are being a Bard during an encounter, unless it is a talkie-talkie encounter. Swords and Valor were written to allow the Bard to be a little more Martial; they add armor and weapon proficiencies and they allow the bard to use Bardic Inspiration on themselves to enhance themselves as martial members of the team.
This last is only true of Swords Bards, not Valor Bards. A Valor Bard's Combat Inspiration can only be used on others.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Bard is a --> LEARNER OF ALL - MASTER OF NOTHING .
So, taking this as a prior rule, you can learn playing musical instruments, and at the same time, casting Rituals using that Instrument as your Arcane Focus. Anyone never saw that possibility ?? Casting Rituals with songs can be more hilarious if it envolves the enemies with it. Because you could expend 1 action in Charming plus a Bonus action to cast a Ritualistic spell.
Tadaaaaaaa !!! The fun it's served on a silver's plate.
I don't think either Swords or Valor were written to make the character a "better Bard", because I think Bards are support when they are being a Bard during an encounter, unless it is a talkie-talkie encounter. Swords and Valor were written to allow the Bard to be a little more Martial; they add armor and weapon proficiencies and they allow the bard to use Bardic Inspiration on themselves to enhance themselves as martial members of the team.
This last is only true of Swords Bards, not Valor Bards. A Valor Bard's Combat Inspiration can only be used on others.
Yes, I was mistaken about the Valor Bard's use of bardic Inspiration. I thought it also allowed him to benefit from it, but the rules say for others. I don't play those sorts of Bards, yet, because if I want to play a martial character, I'm going to use another class. But if I play long enough, maybe I could experience the Valor and Swords Bards.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I have grown to quickly love the creation bard. as Heiro said above you can do so much with that animation ability AND use your inspiration all in the same turn!! That is effectively 2 BA! its nuts. For action economy id say creation is easily tops.
I have grown to quickly love the creation bard. as Heiro said above you can do so much with that animation ability AND use your inspiration all in the same turn!! That is effectively 2 BA! its nuts. For action economy id say creation is easily tops.
Creation bards have some powerfully fun tricks, like literally spending the entire fight inside a flying wardrobe-mech and then at the end of the fight finally coming out of the closet, to much applause.
So, I’m making a bard for a campaign. I’ve only played a bard once before and I just wanted some feedback on what subclass is best.
I'd write a backstory and see what fits best, but I've found Swords to be powerful and fun, especially if you take Tenser's transformation as one of your 14th level magical secrets.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
I read over the different bards and it seems that the swords bard is kinda selfish with their bardic inspiration. And I wanted to play a more controller and utility role. Is there a way I could play the swords bard to fit that niche and focus on giving out the bardic inspiration to the other party members?
I don't know, really. Most subclasses are good for support and I haven't played as many bards as I'd like.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Just here to out my two cents in. I always like to play a subclass that's uncommon, to do something different. Whispers Bards are hard to play sometimes, but the reward flavor wise, RP wise, and the moments you kick butt with Psychic Blades and outrogue the rogue with your subclass abilities feels great. So far thanks to my abilities and being able to use my Inspiration dice for my allies and to do damage I've been instrumental to my party's success multiple times.
But I admit, it's not for everyone.
Thanks for the feedback!
I don't think there is a "best" College as much as one that is best suited for the specific character. You said you want to make a controller and utility character? Well the Bard class as a whole tends towards control and utility. You were right that the College that supports that playstyle the least is the College of Swords, so we can probably cut that one out, but literally every single other College is good for different flavors of control and utility.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I would pick lore, since they get additional magical secrets at 6th level (Around when spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt are coming into play). Their cutting words ability is also very powerful. They also get more skills. The peerless skill is okay too, allowing you to almost NEVER fail on ability checks. Overall, it fits the classic bard perfectly.
Erean Cabenrith a Variant Human Cleric (Light Domain)
Eliem Lightblossom a High Elf Blood Hunter
Check out my Extended Signature Here
Definitely glamour bard if you desire to use your inspiration for the party and have control. I am currently playing one in Princes of the Apocalypse, and I have complete control over allies and enemies alike.
Perfect battle music for the boss fight >>> Here
I feel the Lord Bard is the Bard's Bard; the best.
A Bard is not going to be a fighter like a 'fighter class' character can be. But a bard can do some great things supporting the other party members in combat, and is fantastic out of combat as the face of the party and the skills. Being a Charisma build with plenty of proficiencies he can become the best Persuader, Intimidator and Deceiver, and still have skill proficiencies left over for some dex based skills, particularly if you don't have a Rogue in the party. Give him the right background and he gets proficiency with Thief's Tools.
The Lore Bard get two extra early Magical Secrets at 6th level, one of the things that make Bards a great class. At 6th level you can grab the popular Counterspell well before other Bard subclasses.
The use of Cutting Words is a GREAT way to make use of Bardic Inspiration.
Unless you've already played a Lore Bard, I strongly recommend you give it a shot.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Control and utility sounds like Creation, since you can literally make any item your party may need (with some limitations on size and monetary value) and then your Dancing Item puts another creature on the board that can also slow down or speed up other creatures.
All bards are going to have a decent amount of control and utility because that's kind of what the base class is all about. Swords and Valor are the two subs that aren't geared towards it. Lore and Eloquence are probably the mechanically superior choices, but I don't think that means Glamour, Creation or Whispers can't lead to extremely enjoyable (and powerful) characters with a similar playstyle goal.
I'm a huge fan of Creation Bards myself. Open ended creation abilities have utility out the wazoo. They can also animate a large object into a large, flying object, which can then serve as a mount. Access to a large sized flyer is quite rare in 5E. You can also pull off some amazing control against armored enemies. Animate the armor and have it float in the air, all the while beating the poor levitating bastard to death. Summons in general are great for control and Animating Performance definitely delivers.
Let's get this out of the way: Valor bards suck and they're not going to stop sucking any time soon. Whisper bards are also quite, quite bad.
Lore and Eloquence are the top of the heap, and Creation and Glamour are both quite good. Swords are beneath all four, and Valor and Whispers are both worse than Swords.
Yes, of course. Lore Bards are Swords Bards but better when it comes to defending the party against attacks, because instead of adding bardic inspiration to your own AC, you can debuff any incoming attack from a nearby attacker (attack roll or damage roll, your choice). Creation Bards are Swords Bards but better when it comes to handing out extra damage - you'll buff a friend's attack roll and add AOE Thunder damage that's resisted with a Constitution save. And yes, Thunder damage will murder lycanthropes and ghosts.
This is all pretty subjective of course, but I will point out that the College of Swords does nothing that synergizes with the Bard class, except for using weapons as a spellcasting focus, which eases up some of the need for War Caster. Take it from someone whose favorite character is a Swords Bard, all the martial abilities gained form the subclass only bring you up to the effectiveness of like a third of a martial class and also do nothing to help you Bard better. Valor is kind of boring, but at least it adds a feature that makes you a better Bard. Again, while Swords is my favorite Bard College, mechanically it's the worst at actually being a Bard and doesn't make up for it by making you an effective martial class either.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I don't think either Swords or Valor were written to make the character a "better Bard", because I think Bards are support when they are being a Bard during an encounter, unless it is a talkie-talkie encounter. Swords and Valor were written to allow the Bard to be a little more Martial; they add armor and weapon proficiencies and they allow the bard to use Bardic Inspiration on themselves to enhance themselves as martial members of the team.
All Bard classes are fine. It is how you enjoy playing as a bard that matters which sub-class you want to play. Some Bards are better at supporting the party while they do the killing, and some bards have other things they can do that are a little less focused on aiding other party members.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
This last is only true of Swords Bards, not Valor Bards. A Valor Bard's Combat Inspiration can only be used on others.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Bard is a --> LEARNER OF ALL - MASTER OF NOTHING .
So, taking this as a prior rule, you can learn playing musical instruments, and at the same time, casting Rituals using that Instrument as your Arcane Focus. Anyone never saw that possibility ?? Casting Rituals with songs can be more hilarious if it envolves the enemies with it. Because you could expend 1 action in Charming plus a Bonus action to cast a Ritualistic spell.
Tadaaaaaaa !!! The fun it's served on a silver's plate.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
Yes, I was mistaken about the Valor Bard's use of bardic Inspiration. I thought it also allowed him to benefit from it, but the rules say for others. I don't play those sorts of Bards, yet, because if I want to play a martial character, I'm going to use another class. But if I play long enough, maybe I could experience the Valor and Swords Bards.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I have grown to quickly love the creation bard. as Heiro said above you can do so much with that animation ability AND use your inspiration all in the same turn!! That is effectively 2 BA! its nuts. For action economy id say creation is easily tops.
Creation bards have some powerfully fun tricks, like literally spending the entire fight inside a flying wardrobe-mech and then at the end of the fight finally coming out of the closet, to much applause.