This is my first time at posting on D&D Beyond, super new to the posting part.
I’m trying to make a character that starts as a bard then multi-classes into Warlock later on. I like to take the time and plan a head when deciding on the sub-class and how many levels I’m going to take when it comes to multi classing. Only problem now is I’m having a difficulty deciding between two different sub-classes for bard and how many levels of each class should I take.
I’m trying to decide between being a College of Lore Bard or A College of Eloquence Bard. I want my warlock to have a packed with The Genie. Any advice on which bard subclass I should take would be very appreciated.
I also want to get the best qualities of both classes but I’m willing to make compromises if that’s not possible when it comes to leveling. Any tips on how many levels I should take in both classes if we also be appreciated.
I would love your guises feedback because I’d like some help with this.
Bard and Warlock can absolutely work together, especially as a way to double-down on spellcasting and get access to a lot of really good spells on the Warlock list without requiring Magical Secrets or feats. I don't think there are any wrong choices for combinations either, though I will say you probably don't want too many levels in Warlock (maximum of 3 unless you're hoping to get an extra attack out of it in which case you need 5).
For the choice of college, this is going to depend a lot on the type of character you want to play both in and out of combat. College of Lore and College of Eloquence are both excellent colleges, but support slightly different types of build.
College of Eloquence is a fantastic toolkit for social checks (Silver Tongue means you can't roll less than 10 for Charisma Deception and Persuasion), and you can also use your Bardic Inspiration to interfere with enemy saves, ideal for Charm Person and similar spells or abilities. It's also got some really solid support potential thanks to Unfailing Inspiration at 6th-level (allies only lose an inspiration dice once it succeeds, so can throw it at long-shot rolls without fear of wasting it), and Universal Speech is basically Tongues for free. As Eloquence you'll want to be the party's face (who does most of the talking), but in combat you should probably lean towards control and/or support.
College of Lore is a trickier beast; it gets a bunch of extra skill proficiencies for out of combat versatility, and it gets a really good ability in Cutting Words* which has a lot of potential uses for interference and support. But where College of Lore really shines are its two Magical Secrets at 6th-level. The difficulty is that Magical Secrets literally gives you access to any spell you want (that you can cast) so you want to have a clear idea of what you intend to get out of it, i.e- which spells from other lists do you need to achieve your aims? You can become a powerful healer, pick up some impressive damage, gain Counterspell which Bards are very good at (as Jack of All Trades applies to it) and so-on. But the sheer amount of choice makes things more difficult. If you're multiclassing Warlock though, then this can get you access to higher level Warlock spells (and Mystic Arcanums) without having to dip further, and getting two choices at 6th level means this still comes in at a reasonable time for a shorter campaign (ending around 10th-level) whereas a multiclass with College of Eloquence may not see any Magical Secrets at all.
On the Warlock side I don't think there are any bad choices. Genie is a fine choice for a Bard, and I can see the Bottled Respite being a lot of fun to have available. But for a Bardlock I think you can basically pick whatever you like the look of best, or whatever fits your theme best.
With that in mind, it may help to know what your character might be like, or how you'd like to play them (the face, control, support, blaster, all rounder etc.)?
Also, when starting from a lower level, the other tricky part is decide how many levels to take and when; Warlock is great in that you get so much from each of the first three levels, so even if you only add one at a time here and there, you should never feel like you're lagging behind too much. That said, one drawback to Warlock is that since it's not a full caster it does slow your Bard spell progression a bit; this is why you don't want to go too high, as you don't want to lose access to higher level spells from Bard, and if you're not the only caster in your party you may find yourself envying them every few levels as they get crazy new spells, but it helps to focus on what you're getting instead, and you wanted it.
Personally I'd recommend getting at least your third level in Bard for the sub-class before you take a level in Warlock, whether you do this before or after 4th level will depend on how much you need to bump one of your scores; since both classes favour Charisma, and you don't need your other scores to be super high right away you can usually get away with taking the first level in Warlock at 4th level. Whether you take a 2nd or 3rd after that is then going to be largely up to you; it'll delay your Bard spellcasting, but you will get Eldritch Invocations then boosted Warlock casting plus a Pact Boon if you do it, so you'll need to decide how soon you need those.
I've been going through something similar recently, though on a character I'm bringing back into a campaign re-specced after an absence, so my experience may not be quite as directly useful though hopefully it can help. Basically my character is more con-man than musician; I originally built him as College of Lore because Eloquence wasn't available (or at least my group didn't have it before Tasha's Cauldron), but I don't think I chose my spells very well as I didn't have a clear idea of how I actually wanted him to play so ended up just picking at each level and making a bit of a mess of things. Now that he's returning after an absence, I'm re-speccing him as College of Eloquence as it so perfectly fits the con-man vibe, and taking levels in Warlock because both of my 6th-level Magical Secrets were from the Warlock list anyway, plus some things I picked up as feats, so multiclassing actually made it possible to simply the build, even though it means slowing his Bard spell progression down.
Since the characters in the campaign are at level 12, my build is going to be 10 levels Bard (College of Eloquence) and 2 levels Warlock (Archfey) and I'm very happy with how that's shaping up, here's the current character sheet if you're interested in that (fair warning, I've renamed a bunch of items and spells to make them a little bit rude). Also do note that we're playing quite a magic item heavy campaign, and got two bonus feats, so we've had a lot of freedom in building our characters. My intention is take the 3rd level in Warlock at 13th, probably with Pact of the Tome for even more cantrips, then stick with Bard up to level 20. While I still have a few damage options in Green Flame Blade + Hex, Dissonant Whispers, and a summonable protector via Summon Fey, I've focused a lot more on having control/support options so that my allies will be dealing more damage (which is all mine if they hit/damage more because of me 😈).
*One small issue with Cutting Words is that it has been overshadowed by the hideously broken Silvery Barbs spell, which enables anyone that can take it to do basically the same thing but better. You may see on my character I'm using a (hopefully) more balanced homebrew version so I can keep some of that ability after switching (as the character did use it a lot).
Sorry for the enormous wall of text; your conundrum was just too similar to something I've been thinking a lot about over the past couple of weeks, got a bit carried away. Hopefully there's something useful in there for you!
Personally, my preference for Multiclassing is to focus on one primary class with another class that's dipped into for other features. That said, you've already set Genie Warlock in stone, so the question for me is... which Bard Subclass pays off the most right at level 3? I feel like Genie is one of those classes that pays out a lot at higher levels... you get a Bonus Action Fly speed at level 6, a 10-minute Short Rest for yourself and your allies at level 10, and limited Wish at level 14. This is all great stuff, but honestly the Genie's level 1 features, while not terrible, aren't exactly great... you really need to invest a few more levels to get the most out of the Genie Subclass.
With that said, my recommendation is to go for Eloquence Bard. Silver Tongue is such a good social skill that it's honestly just outright broken, especially if you put your expertises in Persuasion and Deception... but even without expertise or even proficiency, if you max out your CHA then you're guaranteed a 15 in every major Charisma check, which is enough to succeed at most challenges. That alone is a beastly feature, but then you get Unsettling Words on top of that? Even though your Bardic Inspiration Die will only ever be a d6, subtracting a d6 from an enemy's Saving Throw is still a pretty big boost. And fortunately your number of Inspirations keys off of your CHA modifier, so you'll still have a good number of uses per day. That pairs especially well with a Warlock multiclass... you don't get many spell slots, so when you do drop a major Saving-Throw-Based spell on the battlefield, you can help make sure that it lands.
This is my first time at posting on D&D Beyond, super new to the posting part.
I’m trying to make a character that starts as a bard then multi-classes into Warlock later on. I like to take the time and plan a head when deciding on the sub-class and how many levels I’m going to take when it comes to multi classing. Only problem now is I’m having a difficulty deciding between two different sub-classes for bard and how many levels of each class should I take.
I’m trying to decide between being a College of Lore Bard or A College of Eloquence Bard. I want my warlock to have a packed with The Genie. Any advice on which bard subclass I should take would be very appreciated.
I also want to get the best qualities of both classes but I’m willing to make compromises if that’s not possible when it comes to leveling. Any tips on how many levels I should take in both classes if we also be appreciated.
I would love your guises feedback because I’d like some help with this.
Eloquence, not Lore. Lore gets you extra magical secrets but multiclassing gets you effectively the same thing.
The best subGenie is overall Dao, if you were looking for advice on that, partially because it adds the best damage type to your blasts.
Generically speaking, you should take one of these combinations:
Bard 19/Warlock 1: Warlock Subclass bennies!
Bard 18/Warlock 2: Invocations
Bard 17/Warlock 3: Optimal number of Warlock Slots relative to invested levels, Pact Boon - but you still get L9 spell access.
Warlock 17/Bard 3: Genie 17 is the most powerful class in the game and can only be stopped by a DM specifically house-ruling away the abilities the game says you have. After that, your remaining 3 levels can be in anything you damn well please.
Warlock 15/Bard 5: Optimal Inspiration Dice relative to invested levels, although you've given up L9 spells - you'll never go higher than 8.
Since that's only a 5-item list, think hard about what you want to get out of Bard, and go for it.
Funny enough I had a couple thoughts of a little multiclassing my Collage Of Glamour Bard & pact of arch fey it, to double down on Fey, but I'm not sure, the last feat with archfey pacy has to be an illusion of a forest right?
Funny enough I had a couple thoughts of a little multiclassing my Collage Of Glamour Bard & pact of arch fey it, to double down on Fey, but I'm not sure, the last feat with archfey pacy has to be an illusion of a forest right?
If you mean Dark Delirium, it just says "misty realm", otherwise the appearance is entirely up to you. Requires 14 levels in Warlock though, so depends if you want to go that far, as you have a few spell options on Bard that can serve the same purpose.
I would go Eloquence Bard with a single dip of Hexblade. It gives you amazing synergy. Hexblade gives you medium armor and shield, dramatically increasing your AC, and then you can also pick up the Shield spell. You will be waaaay harder to hit with just a single level dip. Just make sure you put your Dex to 14 so you get the full benefit of medium armor.
It also gives you access to Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, and it will allow you to use any one-handed martial weapon and use Charisma for attacks and damage. You now have a very effective damage cantrip, something the Bard is normally lacking.
Then you get Hexblade's Curse, which is okay but I'm more in it for the other two things.
You can make reasonable arguments for 2 or 3 levels of Hexblade, and it's not bad, but when I'm a full caster I like to avoid delaying my spell and spell slot progression as much as possible.
This is my first time at posting on D&D Beyond, super new to the posting part.
I’m trying to make a character that starts as a bard then multi-classes into Warlock later on. I like to take the time and plan a head when deciding on the sub-class and how many levels I’m going to take when it comes to multi classing. Only problem now is I’m having a difficulty deciding between two different sub-classes for bard and how many levels of each class should I take.
I’m trying to decide between being a College of Lore Bard or A College of Eloquence Bard. I want my warlock to have a packed with The Genie. Any advice on which bard subclass I should take would be very appreciated.
I also want to get the best qualities of both classes but I’m willing to make compromises if that’s not possible when it comes to leveling. Any tips on how many levels I should take in both classes if we also be appreciated.
I would love your guises feedback because I’d like some help with this.
Bard and Warlock can absolutely work together, especially as a way to double-down on spellcasting and get access to a lot of really good spells on the Warlock list without requiring Magical Secrets or feats. I don't think there are any wrong choices for combinations either, though I will say you probably don't want too many levels in Warlock (maximum of 3 unless you're hoping to get an extra attack out of it in which case you need 5).
For the choice of college, this is going to depend a lot on the type of character you want to play both in and out of combat. College of Lore and College of Eloquence are both excellent colleges, but support slightly different types of build.
College of Eloquence is a fantastic toolkit for social checks (Silver Tongue means you can't roll less than 10 for Charisma Deception and Persuasion), and you can also use your Bardic Inspiration to interfere with enemy saves, ideal for Charm Person and similar spells or abilities. It's also got some really solid support potential thanks to Unfailing Inspiration at 6th-level (allies only lose an inspiration dice once it succeeds, so can throw it at long-shot rolls without fear of wasting it), and Universal Speech is basically Tongues for free. As Eloquence you'll want to be the party's face (who does most of the talking), but in combat you should probably lean towards control and/or support.
College of Lore is a trickier beast; it gets a bunch of extra skill proficiencies for out of combat versatility, and it gets a really good ability in Cutting Words* which has a lot of potential uses for interference and support. But where College of Lore really shines are its two Magical Secrets at 6th-level. The difficulty is that Magical Secrets literally gives you access to any spell you want (that you can cast) so you want to have a clear idea of what you intend to get out of it, i.e- which spells from other lists do you need to achieve your aims? You can become a powerful healer, pick up some impressive damage, gain Counterspell which Bards are very good at (as Jack of All Trades applies to it) and so-on. But the sheer amount of choice makes things more difficult. If you're multiclassing Warlock though, then this can get you access to higher level Warlock spells (and Mystic Arcanums) without having to dip further, and getting two choices at 6th level means this still comes in at a reasonable time for a shorter campaign (ending around 10th-level) whereas a multiclass with College of Eloquence may not see any Magical Secrets at all.
On the Warlock side I don't think there are any bad choices. Genie is a fine choice for a Bard, and I can see the Bottled Respite being a lot of fun to have available. But for a Bardlock I think you can basically pick whatever you like the look of best, or whatever fits your theme best.
With that in mind, it may help to know what your character might be like, or how you'd like to play them (the face, control, support, blaster, all rounder etc.)?
Also, when starting from a lower level, the other tricky part is decide how many levels to take and when; Warlock is great in that you get so much from each of the first three levels, so even if you only add one at a time here and there, you should never feel like you're lagging behind too much. That said, one drawback to Warlock is that since it's not a full caster it does slow your Bard spell progression a bit; this is why you don't want to go too high, as you don't want to lose access to higher level spells from Bard, and if you're not the only caster in your party you may find yourself envying them every few levels as they get crazy new spells, but it helps to focus on what you're getting instead, and you wanted it.
Personally I'd recommend getting at least your third level in Bard for the sub-class before you take a level in Warlock, whether you do this before or after 4th level will depend on how much you need to bump one of your scores; since both classes favour Charisma, and you don't need your other scores to be super high right away you can usually get away with taking the first level in Warlock at 4th level. Whether you take a 2nd or 3rd after that is then going to be largely up to you; it'll delay your Bard spellcasting, but you will get Eldritch Invocations then boosted Warlock casting plus a Pact Boon if you do it, so you'll need to decide how soon you need those.
I've been going through something similar recently, though on a character I'm bringing back into a campaign re-specced after an absence, so my experience may not be quite as directly useful though hopefully it can help. Basically my character is more con-man than musician; I originally built him as College of Lore because Eloquence wasn't available (or at least my group didn't have it before Tasha's Cauldron), but I don't think I chose my spells very well as I didn't have a clear idea of how I actually wanted him to play so ended up just picking at each level and making a bit of a mess of things. Now that he's returning after an absence, I'm re-speccing him as College of Eloquence as it so perfectly fits the con-man vibe, and taking levels in Warlock because both of my 6th-level Magical Secrets were from the Warlock list anyway, plus some things I picked up as feats, so multiclassing actually made it possible to simply the build, even though it means slowing his Bard spell progression down.
Since the characters in the campaign are at level 12, my build is going to be 10 levels Bard (College of Eloquence) and 2 levels Warlock (Archfey) and I'm very happy with how that's shaping up, here's the current character sheet if you're interested in that (fair warning, I've renamed a bunch of items and spells to make them a little bit rude). Also do note that we're playing quite a magic item heavy campaign, and got two bonus feats, so we've had a lot of freedom in building our characters. My intention is take the 3rd level in Warlock at 13th, probably with Pact of the Tome for even more cantrips, then stick with Bard up to level 20. While I still have a few damage options in Green Flame Blade + Hex, Dissonant Whispers, and a summonable protector via Summon Fey, I've focused a lot more on having control/support options so that my allies will be dealing more damage (which is all mine if they hit/damage more because of me 😈).
*One small issue with Cutting Words is that it has been overshadowed by the hideously broken Silvery Barbs spell, which enables anyone that can take it to do basically the same thing but better. You may see on my character I'm using a (hopefully) more balanced homebrew version so I can keep some of that ability after switching (as the character did use it a lot).
Sorry for the enormous wall of text; your conundrum was just too similar to something I've been thinking a lot about over the past couple of weeks, got a bit carried away. Hopefully there's something useful in there for you!
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
Personally, my preference for Multiclassing is to focus on one primary class with another class that's dipped into for other features. That said, you've already set Genie Warlock in stone, so the question for me is... which Bard Subclass pays off the most right at level 3? I feel like Genie is one of those classes that pays out a lot at higher levels... you get a Bonus Action Fly speed at level 6, a 10-minute Short Rest for yourself and your allies at level 10, and limited Wish at level 14. This is all great stuff, but honestly the Genie's level 1 features, while not terrible, aren't exactly great... you really need to invest a few more levels to get the most out of the Genie Subclass.
With that said, my recommendation is to go for Eloquence Bard. Silver Tongue is such a good social skill that it's honestly just outright broken, especially if you put your expertises in Persuasion and Deception... but even without expertise or even proficiency, if you max out your CHA then you're guaranteed a 15 in every major Charisma check, which is enough to succeed at most challenges. That alone is a beastly feature, but then you get Unsettling Words on top of that? Even though your Bardic Inspiration Die will only ever be a d6, subtracting a d6 from an enemy's Saving Throw is still a pretty big boost. And fortunately your number of Inspirations keys off of your CHA modifier, so you'll still have a good number of uses per day. That pairs especially well with a Warlock multiclass... you don't get many spell slots, so when you do drop a major Saving-Throw-Based spell on the battlefield, you can help make sure that it lands.
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Since that's only a 5-item list, think hard about what you want to get out of Bard, and go for it.
Funny enough I had a couple thoughts of a little multiclassing my Collage Of Glamour Bard & pact of arch fey it, to double down on Fey, but I'm not sure, the last feat with archfey pacy has to be an illusion of a forest right?
She/They/it
Keep in mind I'm in the UK so my time zone's GMT.
Definitely not an undead.
If you mean Dark Delirium, it just says "misty realm", otherwise the appearance is entirely up to you. Requires 14 levels in Warlock though, so depends if you want to go that far, as you have a few spell options on Bard that can serve the same purpose.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
I would go Eloquence Bard with a single dip of Hexblade. It gives you amazing synergy. Hexblade gives you medium armor and shield, dramatically increasing your AC, and then you can also pick up the Shield spell. You will be waaaay harder to hit with just a single level dip. Just make sure you put your Dex to 14 so you get the full benefit of medium armor.
It also gives you access to Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, and it will allow you to use any one-handed martial weapon and use Charisma for attacks and damage. You now have a very effective damage cantrip, something the Bard is normally lacking.
Then you get Hexblade's Curse, which is okay but I'm more in it for the other two things.
You can make reasonable arguments for 2 or 3 levels of Hexblade, and it's not bad, but when I'm a full caster I like to avoid delaying my spell and spell slot progression as much as possible.