My sister's been interested in trying to make her character a bard that doesn't only act as the healer of the party, but can also get their hands dirty in combat. I'm looking for a way to make a bard that has offensive spells and capabilities without just turning it into a wizard. Ideas?
I mean if you want offensive, all you need is vicious mockery 😂
Bards don't get a lot of great "offense" spells in the sense of dealing a bunch of damage; dissonant whispers and thunderwave are some of our best early spells, heat metal is fantastic to have for when it comes up (metal armoured enemy), shatter is a more pure damage version of thunderwave (and easier to use). We don't get much for 3rd and 4th level, 5th you can deal damage with animate objects or more directly with synaptic static.
Really the Bard list is best for control and support, the damage we can do is mostly psychic (usually with a rider) or thunder, if you're going to get damage options then you need to pick them up as Magical Secrets, but you only get a handful of those, or you pick them up some other way.
A warlock multi-class is a good option if you want a more offensive Bard, as it meshes well (same spellcasting ability, short rest refreshing slots), and a two or three level dip can get you a lot of extra toys to play with. Alternatively you could look at taking Magic Initiate (Warlock) for a couple of good damage cantrips and maybe hex, the classic eldritch blast + hex combo is a pretty decent boost even without the Agonizing Blast invocation.
If she is looking to go into melee take a dip into hexblade. This will allow her to use her charisma for to hit/damage plus give her proficiency in medium armor and shields. If she really wants to wade into melee look at college of swords. You get to use your inspiration dice for melee bumps and will get a second attack at bard level 6. I have used this build quite a bit and it is very fun. You may not be the best at anything but you are good in everything. You have skills, spells and melee capability. It's pretty fun to throw a inspiration dice to add to your AC then throw up a shield spell if needed or start combat with mirror image and be able to help other melee classes. If she takes healing word she can even heal as a bonus action while attacking.
I like the multiclass idea a lot. Another option that uses charisma would be to multiclass into sorceror if she wanted to dip her toes into the water of spells like witch bolt and fireball, spells that are usually reserved for arcane classes.
Meanest way to play bard is to go hard on "control" style play as opposed to raw damage; things like bane, charm, confusion, heat metal are all good choices for going harder on offensee then defense and can potentially do more to end a fight then just spamming fireballs or such.
My bard started as a control/buff but has morphed into a more offensive-oriented spellcaster. At level 5 he has Vicious Mockery, Thunderclap, Dissonant Whispers, Thunderwave, Shatter, and Heat Metal for damage. Rounded out with Healing Word, Kinetic Jaunt, Hideous Laughter (just because he thinks this spell is hilarious) and Bestow Curse (versatile for damage or giving disadvantage). College of Lore so at 6th level he can choose 2 bonus spells - probably choose Eldritch Blast for at least one of those since a. It's a cantrip and b. one of the party is a Warlock and he's seen it used. Others that I will consider at that time will probably also be damage spells - probably something lightning related because it fits his personality. So what I'm saying here is that it's possible to build an offense-oriented bard without multiclassing.
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"...at worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
My idea for an offensive minded bard uses 4 levels of Dao Warlock and gets the pseudodragon. Yes, you start off life living as a warlock, but with sanctuary, armor of agathys, hellish rebuke and some loving as an athletic char so you can grapple and you get very offensive very fast. Also, I went Shaddar Kai so I could get resist to all damage types for a full turn at a time.
From there, the rest of the levels are all Spirits Bard. By level 14 I have 3 pets out, the Pseudodragon, a Saber-toothed tiger and a Shadowspawn.
The basic Idea is to create a stealthed character who TPs into range and commands the baddie to slap me. It allows me to spike with as much as 3 different powers and then hellish rebuke before the bad guy gets a chance to attack me. Next turn everything hits him and it'll hurt em plenty.
Almost all of the "Tales from Beyond" powers can be useful to you and you can give additional inspiration to your pets to make sure of a knock down (tiger) or a poison/sleep (dragon)
Hexblade Bladelock 3/Swords Bard X is a really fun build where you can choose between being in combat or out of combat. Something like a rapier/longsword and a shield and half-plate. From warlock, take the Improved Pact Weapon and Agonizing Blast invocations and Eldritch Blast and Booming Blade as your cantrips. Top it off with the Warcaster feat and you can be wherever you want on the battlefield and still churn out decent damage.
The offense Bard I have in mind currently is simply a College of Creation Bard. The actual fighting ability only really starts from level 6 on so it's probably not a character I'd play in a campaign starting in tier 1 though. Their Animating Performance is their key combat ability after all. I'll probably cast it on some actual weapon like a sword and have that fight for me. Later on I'd pick the Animate Objects spell and cast it on a bunch more swords or daggers or something, potentially created via Creative Crescendo even. I might even use the Magic Secrets to tap into the Ranger spell list to get Conjure Barrage or Conjure Volley.
I'd like to call this character concept a swordmancer. Shame Bards don't get access to Cloud of Daggers though (not going to use up Magical Secrets for that one 😄).
The offense Bard I have in mind currently is simply a College of Creation Bard. The actual fighting ability only really starts from level 6 on so it's probably not a character I'd play in a campaign starting in tier 1 though. Their Animating Performance is their key combat ability after all. I'll probably cast it on some actual weapon like a sword and have that fight for me. Later on I'd pick the Animate Objects spell and cast it on a bunch more swords or daggers or something, potentially created via Creative Crescendo even. I might even use the Magic Secrets to tap into the Ranger spell list to get Conjure Barrage or Conjure Volley.
I'd like to call this character concept a swordmancer. Shame Bards don't get access to Cloud of Daggers though (not going to use up Magical Secrets for that one 😄).
The offense Bard I have in mind currently is simply a College of Creation Bard. The actual fighting ability only really starts from level 6 on so it's probably not a character I'd play in a campaign starting in tier 1 though. Their Animating Performance is their key combat ability after all. I'll probably cast it on some actual weapon like a sword and have that fight for me. Later on I'd pick the Animate Objects spell and cast it on a bunch more swords or daggers or something, potentially created via Creative Crescendo even. I might even use the Magic Secrets to tap into the Ranger spell list to get Conjure Barrage or Conjure Volley.
I'd like to call this character concept a swordmancer. Shame Bards don't get access to Cloud of Daggers though (not going to use up Magical Secrets for that one 😄).
The offense Bard I have in mind currently is simply a College of Creation Bard. The actual fighting ability only really starts from level 6 on so it's probably not a character I'd play in a campaign starting in tier 1 though. Their Animating Performance is their key combat ability after all. I'll probably cast it on some actual weapon like a sword and have that fight for me. Later on I'd pick the Animate Objects spell and cast it on a bunch more swords or daggers or something, potentially created via Creative Crescendo even. I might even use the Magic Secrets to tap into the Ranger spell list to get Conjure Barrage or Conjure Volley.
I'd like to call this character concept a swordmancer. Shame Bards don't get access to Cloud of Daggers though (not going to use up Magical Secrets for that one 😄).
The offense Bard I have in mind currently is simply a College of Creation Bard. The actual fighting ability only really starts from level 6 on so it's probably not a character I'd play in a campaign starting in tier 1 though. Their Animating Performance is their key combat ability after all. I'll probably cast it on some actual weapon like a sword and have that fight for me. Later on I'd pick the Animate Objects spell and cast it on a bunch more swords or daggers or something, potentially created via Creative Crescendo even. I might even use the Magic Secrets to tap into the Ranger spell list to get Conjure Barrage or Conjure Volley.
I'd like to call this character concept a swordmancer. Shame Bards don't get access to Cloud of Daggers though (not going to use up Magical Secrets for that one 😄).
Uh ... for some reason I looked only at level 1 spells lol. Don't mind me, Cloud of Daggers Bard swordmancer is a go! :D
I would dip a level in Sorcerer or Warlock to grab the Sword Burst cantrip just for extra flavor.
True! Just not sure with which subclass I'd go in that case as Sorcerer and Warlock subclasses add some really heavy flavor as well. I guess I'd go with either Divine Soul or Wild Magic as they give the biggest and most "neutral" benefit at level 1. Also dipping into Sorcerer allows you to pick Ice Knife as level 1 spell which fits the theme pretty well too.
If you start out as Sorcerer you'd even get proficiency in CON saves which is pretty neat if the plan is to rely on concentration spells like Animate Object. You'd be missing out on a weapon proficiency though so it depends on whether you wanted to lean a bit into Gish territory with that build or not I guess.
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I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
A good way to build an offensive Bard is to take the Crossbow Expert feat. You have proficiency with hand crossbows, so if you take the attack action on your turn you can make a hand crossbow attack with your bonus action.
You can ignore the loading property so you can fire it twice, making it your main attack and your bonus attack, and since you don't have disadvantage when something is next to you, it's basically Two Weapon Fighting for Bards. I'd argue it's even better than TWF because you have the option of attacking at range or melee.
I assume you are talking about melee and combat when you say offensive because bards are naturally offensive just by talking truth to power comedically. For melee/combat you need to decide whether you want to be a “pure” bard or a multiclass bard. While many of the colleges grant powers that are offensive in one way or another only the valor and sword bards get an actual second attack as well as access to medium armor. Sword bards get a fighting style and “flourishes” while valor bards eventually get to cast and make a weapon attack in the same round. They will never have the HP of a true martial but but they can get to AC 19 without magical armor.
Multiclassing, as you’ve seen from the various posts above brings its own delemas. Which class to take and when and for how many levels? For pure combat/melee ability day in and day out nothing really beats a fighter because there are no expendable resources except action surge and you get access to heavy armors. The big thing Hexblade actually gives valor and sword bards is the ability to use their charisma stat instead of strength for attacks which can be very helpful. It does grant you some offensive spells as well but you can get them via magic initiate: warlock as easily. Paladin, Ranger and Artificer all call for a multilevel dip. Paladin grants heavy armor but you need to go 5 levels deep before you get more than a couple of smites. Ranger and artificer don’t really add much offensively without going deep and that slows your spell slot progression. cleric and Druid may not slow the spellslot progression but they don’t add much in terms of combat ability. ( they could still be fun to play) Wizard and Sorceror keep the slot progression going and they both grant you access to really nice combat spells. However to get much more than some extra cantrips your going to have to take a number of levels slowing down your bard progression. Wizard also gives you access to ritual spells from your spellbook but if you lose the book your lost. Sorceror is more limited but it works off your charisma so it’s not MAD. I can see as much as a 6 level dip giving you 5 cantrips, 7 known spells, 6 sorcery points for metamagic and access to L3 evocation spells to upcast.which type of sorceror is upto you as all can be pretty good. My favorites are storm and draconic but you will have to pick for yourself.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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My sister's been interested in trying to make her character a bard that doesn't only act as the healer of the party, but can also get their hands dirty in combat. I'm looking for a way to make a bard that has offensive spells and capabilities without just turning it into a wizard. Ideas?
Orange Juice!
I mean if you want offensive, all you need is vicious mockery 😂
Bards don't get a lot of great "offense" spells in the sense of dealing a bunch of damage; dissonant whispers and thunderwave are some of our best early spells, heat metal is fantastic to have for when it comes up (metal armoured enemy), shatter is a more pure damage version of thunderwave (and easier to use). We don't get much for 3rd and 4th level, 5th you can deal damage with animate objects or more directly with synaptic static.
Really the Bard list is best for control and support, the damage we can do is mostly psychic (usually with a rider) or thunder, if you're going to get damage options then you need to pick them up as Magical Secrets, but you only get a handful of those, or you pick them up some other way.
A warlock multi-class is a good option if you want a more offensive Bard, as it meshes well (same spellcasting ability, short rest refreshing slots), and a two or three level dip can get you a lot of extra toys to play with. Alternatively you could look at taking Magic Initiate (Warlock) for a couple of good damage cantrips and maybe hex, the classic eldritch blast + hex combo is a pretty decent boost even without the Agonizing Blast invocation.
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Thanks for the idea
Orange Juice!
If she is looking to go into melee take a dip into hexblade. This will allow her to use her charisma for to hit/damage plus give her proficiency in medium armor and shields. If she really wants to wade into melee look at college of swords. You get to use your inspiration dice for melee bumps and will get a second attack at bard level 6. I have used this build quite a bit and it is very fun. You may not be the best at anything but you are good in everything. You have skills, spells and melee capability. It's pretty fun to throw a inspiration dice to add to your AC then throw up a shield spell if needed or start combat with mirror image and be able to help other melee classes. If she takes healing word she can even heal as a bonus action while attacking.
I like the multiclass idea a lot. Another option that uses charisma would be to multiclass into sorceror if she wanted to dip her toes into the water of spells like witch bolt and fireball, spells that are usually reserved for arcane classes.
Orange Juice!
Not sure what level this is for or going to...but Bards with Telekinesis and Cutting Words can truly own a battlefield.
Paladin 2/Swords bard X one of the most effective melees there is. Can get super high ac, nova damage.
Meanest way to play bard is to go hard on "control" style play as opposed to raw damage; things like bane, charm, confusion, heat metal are all good choices for going harder on offensee then defense and can potentially do more to end a fight then just spamming fireballs or such.
My bard started as a control/buff but has morphed into a more offensive-oriented spellcaster. At level 5 he has Vicious Mockery, Thunderclap, Dissonant Whispers, Thunderwave, Shatter, and Heat Metal for damage. Rounded out with Healing Word, Kinetic Jaunt, Hideous Laughter (just because he thinks this spell is hilarious) and Bestow Curse (versatile for damage or giving disadvantage). College of Lore so at 6th level he can choose 2 bonus spells - probably choose Eldritch Blast for at least one of those since a. It's a cantrip and b. one of the party is a Warlock and he's seen it used. Others that I will consider at that time will probably also be damage spells - probably something lightning related because it fits his personality. So what I'm saying here is that it's possible to build an offense-oriented bard without multiclassing.
"...at worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
My idea for an offensive minded bard uses 4 levels of Dao Warlock and gets the pseudodragon. Yes, you start off life living as a warlock, but with sanctuary, armor of agathys, hellish rebuke and some loving as an athletic char so you can grapple and you get very offensive very fast. Also, I went Shaddar Kai so I could get resist to all damage types for a full turn at a time.
From there, the rest of the levels are all Spirits Bard. By level 14 I have 3 pets out, the Pseudodragon, a Saber-toothed tiger and a Shadowspawn.
The basic Idea is to create a stealthed character who TPs into range and commands the baddie to slap me. It allows me to spike with as much as 3 different powers and then hellish rebuke before the bad guy gets a chance to attack me. Next turn everything hits him and it'll hurt em plenty.
Almost all of the "Tales from Beyond" powers can be useful to you and you can give additional inspiration to your pets to make sure of a knock down (tiger) or a poison/sleep (dragon)
Hexblade Bladelock 3/Swords Bard X is a really fun build where you can choose between being in combat or out of combat. Something like a rapier/longsword and a shield and half-plate. From warlock, take the Improved Pact Weapon and Agonizing Blast invocations and Eldritch Blast and Booming Blade as your cantrips. Top it off with the Warcaster feat and you can be wherever you want on the battlefield and still churn out decent damage.
The offense Bard I have in mind currently is simply a College of Creation Bard. The actual fighting ability only really starts from level 6 on so it's probably not a character I'd play in a campaign starting in tier 1 though. Their Animating Performance is their key combat ability after all. I'll probably cast it on some actual weapon like a sword and have that fight for me. Later on I'd pick the Animate Objects spell and cast it on a bunch more swords or daggers or something, potentially created via Creative Crescendo even. I might even use the Magic Secrets to tap into the Ranger spell list to get Conjure Barrage or Conjure Volley.
I'd like to call this character concept a swordmancer.
Shame Bards don't get access to Cloud of Daggers though (not going to use up Magical Secrets for that one 😄).I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Bards do get access to Cloud of Daggers though.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/class/bard
Uh ... for some reason I looked only at level 1 spells lol. Don't mind me, Cloud of Daggers Bard swordmancer is a go! :D
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
I would dip a level in Sorcerer or Warlock to grab the Sword Burst cantrip just for extra flavor.
True! Just not sure with which subclass I'd go in that case as Sorcerer and Warlock subclasses add some really heavy flavor as well. I guess I'd go with either Divine Soul or Wild Magic as they give the biggest and most "neutral" benefit at level 1. Also dipping into Sorcerer allows you to pick Ice Knife as level 1 spell which fits the theme pretty well too.
If you start out as Sorcerer you'd even get proficiency in CON saves which is pretty neat if the plan is to rely on concentration spells like Animate Object. You'd be missing out on a weapon proficiency though so it depends on whether you wanted to lean a bit into Gish territory with that build or not I guess.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
I'm not clear on your vision of "an offensive Bard that isn't a Wizard."
Do you mean you want a Bard that is a frontliner and not one that deals damage from the rear?
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A good way to build an offensive Bard is to take the Crossbow Expert feat. You have proficiency with hand crossbows, so if you take the attack action on your turn you can make a hand crossbow attack with your bonus action.
You can ignore the loading property so you can fire it twice, making it your main attack and your bonus attack, and since you don't have disadvantage when something is next to you, it's basically Two Weapon Fighting for Bards. I'd argue it's even better than TWF because you have the option of attacking at range or melee.
Psst.. start one level of fighter then go swords bard the rest of the way, or pick up another level of fighter for action surge. You're welcome.
I assume you are talking about melee and combat when you say offensive because bards are naturally offensive just by talking truth to power comedically. For melee/combat you need to decide whether you want to be a “pure” bard or a multiclass bard. While many of the colleges grant powers that are offensive in one way or another only the valor and sword bards get an actual second attack as well as access to medium armor. Sword bards get a fighting style and “flourishes” while valor bards eventually get to cast and make a weapon attack in the same round. They will never have the HP of a true martial but but they can get to AC 19 without magical armor.
Multiclassing, as you’ve seen from the various posts above brings its own delemas. Which class to take and when and for how many levels?
For pure combat/melee ability day in and day out nothing really beats a fighter because there are no expendable resources except action surge and you get access to heavy armors.
The big thing Hexblade actually gives valor and sword bards is the ability to use their charisma stat instead of strength for attacks which can be very helpful. It does grant you some offensive spells as well but you can get them via magic initiate: warlock as easily.
Paladin, Ranger and Artificer all call for a multilevel dip. Paladin grants heavy armor but you need to go 5 levels deep before you get more than a couple of smites. Ranger and artificer don’t really add much offensively without going deep and that slows your spell slot progression.
cleric and Druid may not slow the spellslot progression but they don’t add much in terms of combat ability. ( they could still be fun to play)
Wizard and Sorceror keep the slot progression going and they both grant you access to really nice combat spells. However to get much more than some extra cantrips your going to have to take a number of levels slowing down your bard progression. Wizard also gives you access to ritual spells from your spellbook but if you lose the book your lost. Sorceror is more limited but it works off your charisma so it’s not MAD. I can see as much as a 6 level dip giving you 5 cantrips, 7 known spells, 6 sorcery points for metamagic and access to L3 evocation spells to upcast.which type of sorceror is upto you as all can be pretty good. My favorites are storm and draconic but you will have to pick for yourself.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.