I’ve been staring at the bard page in xge and i can’t help but think how overpowered sword bard sounds? Is it just my mind or is it really actually good?
I’ve been staring at the bard page in xge and i can’t help but think how overpowered sword bard sounds? Is it just my mind or is it really actually good?
Good compared to what?
I prefer valor bards for the shield proficiency, all martial weapons, and combat inspiration. A personal AC bonus that doesn't use up the bardic inspiration dice allows using BI on others, and those others are more likely to make better use of the bonuses in a group. My issue with flourishes is that they use up a limited resource to benefit the bard and that ends up either incentivizing the player to not use inspiration on others, or not have the benefit of flourishes after having used bardic inspiration on others.
Another issue with a swords bard is a flourish can only be used with an attack action, only once on a turn, only when the bard hits, and only on the bard's turn. Among other things, this means casting a spell prevents using a flourish so there's a conflict between the subclass feature and a major clash feature.
The valor bard, OTOH, benefits from better armor via shield all the time and (potentially) better damage options via weapons without using inspiration dice and therefore continues to give those options to other party members that includes more options than the swords bard can give.
No, Swords Bard is not OP. The Flourishes are a useful but limited resource until 14th level, by which time your higher level spells will be so powerful that your flourishes will not seem very useful most of the time. Overall, the strongest Bard resource is spellcasting since Bards are a primary spellcaster. As such, the Bard subclasses that enhance that feature tend to be the strongest in most campaigns. Lore Bards get more Magical Secrets. Eloquence Bards impair the saving throws of hostiles. If you want the best use of your spell slots, these are generally the best Bard subclasses.
I don't think College of Swords is overpowered, it divert ressources often best used elsewhere. My preference when playing a bard is to inspire my allies so i prefer other College but it's certainly one of the good ones nonetheless.
Swords bard is great, but so are most of the other subclasses.
I personally think Creation is prolly the most OP, but even then it's not completely so.
Most fun, IMO, would be Spirits. Some think it's underpowered but I say it's such a blast, who cares if you can't get the exact tale you want at the exact time you want. You can still do so much with it.
Treantmonk made a series of videos comparing all the subclasses, swords came out good but far from the most powerful bard subclass, here is the video on bard subclasses
Creation Bards can create their own expensive material components for spells, enabling them to more freely cast spells that have costs that frequently prevent other characters from casting them.
Eloquence Bards can by L4 with a standard ability score array can't roll lower than a 20 on all Deception and Persuasion checks (Expertise, 18 Charisma, and Expertise). I'd consider that the most OP Bardic option if you're including social encounters and not just combat.
Swords bard is only really good if you have a starting dip in fighter of paladin, or a later dip into hexblade.
Otherwise, a purebred swords bard actually kinda sucks if you attempt to melee. No shield proficiency, and weapon selection sucks. This is why the aforementioned dips are necessary if you're looking for a melee combatant with a full spellcaster's progression.
A fighter 1/swords bard x, for example, gives you all armor and weapon proficiencies, more fighting styles, and con save proficiency. This delays extra attack until lvl 7 total, but there ways to build around that. But ultimately, it gives you most of the martial package while you maintain a full spellcaster's progression, albeit a level (or two) behind.
What spells then should you take if you want to max on sword bard, maybe multi class fighter.
im thinking healing word, heroism for early levels, and silvery barbs?
I want to be a more frontline fighter but bards frailty definitely doesn’t help
If you want to frontline then you do not want to multiclass Fighter, instead get a 1 level Hexblade Warlock dip. It gives you decent ranged (Eldritch Blast) and melee (Booming Blade) cantrips. Lets you use medium armor and shields. Lets you attack with CHA. But the really big selling point is that you get access to the Shield spell which can greatly improve your survivability (do note that you will need the Warcaster feat to cast Shield while you are using sword and board).
What spells then should you take if you want to max on sword bard, maybe multi class fighter.
im thinking healing word, heroism for early levels, and silvery barbs?
I want to be a more frontline fighter but bards frailty definitely doesn’t help
If you want to frontline then you do not want to multiclass Fighter, instead get a 1 level Hexblade Warlock dip. It gives you decent ranged (Eldritch Blast) and melee (Booming Blade) cantrips. Lets you use medium armor and shields. Lets you attack with CHA. But the really big selling point is that you get access to the Shield spell which can greatly improve your survivability (do note that you will need the Warcaster feat to cast Shield while you are using sword and board).
Fighter 1 IS a good idea. You don't even need CHA for it to work. There's plenty enough spells that don't rely on DC to work. If you wanted a fairly competitive frontliner, I'd build a v.human that starts with GWM then boosts STR at every given chance. A hexblade multi can't deliver that sort of melee damage with cantrips and a one-handed weapon.
What spells then should you take if you want to max on sword bard, maybe multi class fighter.
im thinking healing word, heroism for early levels, and silvery barbs?
I want to be a more frontline fighter but bards frailty definitely doesn’t help
If you want to frontline then you do not want to multiclass Fighter, instead get a 1 level Hexblade Warlock dip. It gives you decent ranged (Eldritch Blast) and melee (Booming Blade) cantrips. Lets you use medium armor and shields. Lets you attack with CHA. But the really big selling point is that you get access to the Shield spell which can greatly improve your survivability (do note that you will need the Warcaster feat to cast Shield while you are using sword and board).
Fighter 1 IS a good idea. You don't even need CHA for it to work. There's plenty enough spells that don't rely on DC to work. If you wanted a fairly competitive frontliner, I'd build a v.human that starts with GWM then boosts STR at every given chance. A hexblade multi can't deliver that sort of melee damage with cantrips and a one-handed weapon.
I was trying to address Bybyroro's concerns about survivability, not trying to maximize damage.
What spells then should you take if you want to max on sword bard, maybe multi class fighter.
im thinking healing word, heroism for early levels, and silvery barbs?
I want to be a more frontline fighter but bards frailty definitely doesn’t help
If you want to frontline then you do not want to multiclass Fighter, instead get a 1 level Hexblade Warlock dip. It gives you decent ranged (Eldritch Blast) and melee (Booming Blade) cantrips. Lets you use medium armor and shields. Lets you attack with CHA. But the really big selling point is that you get access to the Shield spell which can greatly improve your survivability (do note that you will need the Warcaster feat to cast Shield while you are using sword and board).
Fighter 1 IS a good idea. You don't even need CHA for it to work. There's plenty enough spells that don't rely on DC to work. If you wanted a fairly competitive frontliner, I'd build a v.human that starts with GWM then boosts STR at every given chance. A hexblade multi can't deliver that sort of melee damage with cantrips and a one-handed weapon.
I was trying to address Bybyroro's concerns about survivability, not trying to maximize damage.
I mean, being able to start with anywhere between 17-19 AC at level 1 is good from a defensive point of view, even if you can't cast shield.
I mean, being able to start with anywhere between 17-19 AC at level 1 is good from a defensive point of view, even if you can't cast shield.
You make a very good point. However the problem is most campaigns do not stay at level 1.
What exactly are you trying to say? AC isn't a static value either, it improves with a campaign's progression as well. Being able to cast shield is nice, but lacking doesn't automatically translate to unfeasible survivability. What you do get is still nice from a defensive point of view.
From my point of view, while you may not have access to the burst in AC thanks to shield spell, you gain access to good weaponry which allows for competitive melee damage while still maintaining acceptable levels of survivability.
I mean, being able to start with anywhere between 17-19 AC at level 1 is good from a defensive point of view, even if you can't cast shield.
You make a very good point. However the problem is most campaigns do not stay at level 1.
What exactly are you trying to say? AC isn't a static value either, it improves with a campaign's progression as well. Being able to cast shield is nice, but lacking doesn't automatically translate to unfeasible survivability. What you do get is still nice from a defensive point of view.
From my point of view, while you may not have access to the burst in AC thanks to shield spell, you gain access to good weaponry which allows for competitive melee damage while still maintaining acceptable levels of survivability.
My point is just having Plate armor while using a 2handed weapon limits your ability to raise your AC as the campaign progresses. Especially in regards to increases to hit modifiers of enemies and other factors such as multi attack.
For example if your party finds a +1 shield. You cannot use it to improve your AC because you are using a 2handed weapon.
Also I feel you are underestimating the amount of damage the the sword and board HexBard can do. Sure you do not get the big +10 per hit that GWM grants (not to mention you will not be using it all the time due to the -5 to hit) but that can be mitigated to a degree from the +2 damage from the dueling fighting style (which a GWM Fighter Bard wastes) and the d6 from Hex. Not to mention the deterrence that a Warcaster OA Booming Blade gives from enemies trying to get past you to attack a backline party member.
Creation Bards can create their own expensive material components for spells, enabling them to more freely cast spells that have costs that frequently prevent other characters from casting them.
Eloquence Bards can by L4 with a standard ability score array can't roll lower than a 20 on all Deception and Persuasion checks (Expertise, 18 Charisma, and Expertise). I'd consider that the most OP Bardic option if you're including social encounters and not just combat.
And Eloquence Bards can also cause your foe to have to make a save on any spell you cast with a minus 1d6(1d8 at fith level). So many of the good Bard spells have a wisdom or other save's and you can make it near impossible for them to make the save.. You also can talk to in any language for an hour at level 6. Truly a fun class with unique powers.
No I don't think sword is the best bard class. It's solid, but Lore and Glamour are both better by a long shot imo.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
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I’ve been staring at the bard page in xge and i can’t help but think how overpowered sword bard sounds? Is it just my mind or is it really actually good?
for melee yes but for charming and getting others to do your dirty work I like Glamour.
Good compared to what?
I prefer valor bards for the shield proficiency, all martial weapons, and combat inspiration. A personal AC bonus that doesn't use up the bardic inspiration dice allows using BI on others, and those others are more likely to make better use of the bonuses in a group. My issue with flourishes is that they use up a limited resource to benefit the bard and that ends up either incentivizing the player to not use inspiration on others, or not have the benefit of flourishes after having used bardic inspiration on others.
Another issue with a swords bard is a flourish can only be used with an attack action, only once on a turn, only when the bard hits, and only on the bard's turn. Among other things, this means casting a spell prevents using a flourish so there's a conflict between the subclass feature and a major clash feature.
The valor bard, OTOH, benefits from better armor via shield all the time and (potentially) better damage options via weapons without using inspiration dice and therefore continues to give those options to other party members that includes more options than the swords bard can give.
No, Swords Bard is not OP. The Flourishes are a useful but limited resource until 14th level, by which time your higher level spells will be so powerful that your flourishes will not seem very useful most of the time. Overall, the strongest Bard resource is spellcasting since Bards are a primary spellcaster. As such, the Bard subclasses that enhance that feature tend to be the strongest in most campaigns. Lore Bards get more Magical Secrets. Eloquence Bards impair the saving throws of hostiles. If you want the best use of your spell slots, these are generally the best Bard subclasses.
I don't think College of Swords is overpowered, it divert ressources often best used elsewhere. My preference when playing a bard is to inspire my allies so i prefer other College but it's certainly one of the good ones nonetheless.
Swords bard is great, but so are most of the other subclasses.
I personally think Creation is prolly the most OP, but even then it's not completely so.
Most fun, IMO, would be Spirits. Some think it's underpowered but I say it's such a blast, who cares if you can't get the exact tale you want at the exact time you want. You can still do so much with it.
Treantmonk made a series of videos comparing all the subclasses, swords came out good but far from the most powerful bard subclass, here is the video on bard subclasses
Bards have a lot of good options. For example:
Creation Bards can create their own expensive material components for spells, enabling them to more freely cast spells that have costs that frequently prevent other characters from casting them.
Eloquence Bards can by L4 with a standard ability score array can't roll lower than a 20 on all Deception and Persuasion checks (Expertise, 18 Charisma, and Expertise). I'd consider that the most OP Bardic option if you're including social encounters and not just combat.
I believe the College of Swords Bard was made as an improvement on the College of Valor Bard.
I don't consider it OP.
I still think College of Lore is the Best subclass and I will stick with that. And I don't believe the College of Lore is OP either.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Swords bard is only really good if you have a starting dip in fighter of paladin, or a later dip into hexblade.
Otherwise, a purebred swords bard actually kinda sucks if you attempt to melee. No shield proficiency, and weapon selection sucks. This is why the aforementioned dips are necessary if you're looking for a melee combatant with a full spellcaster's progression.
A fighter 1/swords bard x, for example, gives you all armor and weapon proficiencies, more fighting styles, and con save proficiency. This delays extra attack until lvl 7 total, but there ways to build around that. But ultimately, it gives you most of the martial package while you maintain a full spellcaster's progression, albeit a level (or two) behind.
What spells then should you take if you want to max on sword bard, maybe multi class fighter.
im thinking healing word, heroism for early levels, and silvery barbs?
I want to be a more frontline fighter but bards frailty definitely doesn’t help
If you want to frontline then you do not want to multiclass Fighter, instead get a 1 level Hexblade Warlock dip. It gives you decent ranged (Eldritch Blast) and melee (Booming Blade) cantrips. Lets you use medium armor and shields. Lets you attack with CHA. But the really big selling point is that you get access to the Shield spell which can greatly improve your survivability (do note that you will need the Warcaster feat to cast Shield while you are using sword and board).
Fighter 1 IS a good idea. You don't even need CHA for it to work. There's plenty enough spells that don't rely on DC to work. If you wanted a fairly competitive frontliner, I'd build a v.human that starts with GWM then boosts STR at every given chance. A hexblade multi can't deliver that sort of melee damage with cantrips and a one-handed weapon.
I was trying to address Bybyroro's concerns about survivability, not trying to maximize damage.
I mean, being able to start with anywhere between 17-19 AC at level 1 is good from a defensive point of view, even if you can't cast shield.
You make a very good point. However the problem is most campaigns do not stay at level 1.
What exactly are you trying to say? AC isn't a static value either, it improves with a campaign's progression as well. Being able to cast shield is nice, but lacking doesn't automatically translate to unfeasible survivability. What you do get is still nice from a defensive point of view.
From my point of view, while you may not have access to the burst in AC thanks to shield spell, you gain access to good weaponry which allows for competitive melee damage while still maintaining acceptable levels of survivability.
My point is just having Plate armor while using a 2handed weapon limits your ability to raise your AC as the campaign progresses. Especially in regards to increases to hit modifiers of enemies and other factors such as multi attack.
For example if your party finds a +1 shield. You cannot use it to improve your AC because you are using a 2handed weapon.
Also I feel you are underestimating the amount of damage the the sword and board HexBard can do. Sure you do not get the big +10 per hit that GWM grants (not to mention you will not be using it all the time due to the -5 to hit) but that can be mitigated to a degree from the +2 damage from the dueling fighting style (which a GWM Fighter Bard wastes) and the d6 from Hex. Not to mention the deterrence that a Warcaster OA Booming Blade gives from enemies trying to get past you to attack a backline party member.
And Eloquence Bards can also cause your foe to have to make a save on any spell you cast with a minus 1d6(1d8 at fith level). So many of the good Bard spells have a wisdom or other save's and you can make it near impossible for them to make the save.. You also can talk to in any language for an hour at level 6. Truly a fun class with unique powers.
No I don't think sword is the best bard class. It's solid, but Lore and Glamour are both better by a long shot imo.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha