Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
This is one of those questions that only a truly bored DM could think up.
Seeing as how their race sheet doesn't specify that they cannot play wind instruments despite the obvious physical limitations, I guess the answer is yes because magic. However, I think homeruling Warforged bards as being forced to play percussion would be both appropriate and hilarious.
Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
Like eating, it simply says they do not need to breath, not that they are incapable of doing so, nothing would prevent them from playing a wind instrument.
I see no reason they couldn't have an integrated bellows which would allow them to play an instrument. Once I made a warforged with their integrated tool being bagpipes, great when you Nat 1 a stealth check
Warforged can modify themselves, so why not a lips add on? Considering how tired my flesh lips get playing the oboe, it'd be really nice to have metal lips that never don't get tired in the middle of Mahler!
Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
Just me personally, It would depend on if its a player character design or a GM NPC. I would generally have warforge as machines of war not built in a world since for such things. I would usually consider a PC warforge to be a prototype. So if a player had a warforge bard from level 1 that played a flute, I would allow it as prototype design built for the purpose. You can always justify war forge experimentation on a small scale as part of the arms race development or as a warforge modifying itself after being liberated to stand out from other warforged of the same model and gain personal identity. I generally don't do it with random warforge NPCs unless its for a specific story hook so that unique player Warforged are more rare and more interesting from the player and the world prospective. If I was going to make it a related story hook worforged NPC, it would likely be related to the players warforged background. If I had a warforged bard in my group for example, I might have them once been part of a warforged band, used to gather intelligence and/or entertaining troops in a combat zone etc. Each of those designed to play a specific instrument or something. However, that would be a one time hook with characters that might pop in a couple of times and if they died they would be irrepealable. That way a player has agency over their character and also has impact on the world through their choices but I don't have to adjust the rest of the world to them. Its also easy to justify that they had not gone into mass production or that the nature of the adjustment for use would make them less effective if it became common practice since people might pick up on what their true intent was and stop talking around them. etc.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
Just me personally, It would depend on if its a player character design or a GM NPC. I would generally have warforge as machines of war not built in a world since for such things. I would usually consider a PC warforge to be a prototype. So if a player had a warforge bard from level 1 that played a flute, I would allow it as prototype design built for the purpose. You can always justify war forge experimentation on a small scale as part of the arms race development or as a warforge modifying itself after being liberated to stand out from other warforged of the same model and gain personal identity. I generally don't do it with random warforge NPCs unless its for a specific story hook so that unique player Warforged are more rare and more interesting from the player and the world prospective. If I was going to make it a related story hook worforged NPC, it would likely be related to the players warforged background. If I had a warforged bard in my group for example, I might have them once been part of a warforged band, used to gather intelligence and/or entertaining troops in a combat zone etc. Each of those designed to play a specific instrument or something. However, that would be a one time hook with characters that might pop in a couple of times and if they died they would be irrepealable. That way a player has agency over their character and also has impact on the world through their choices but I don't have to adjust the rest of the world to them. Its also easy to justify that they had not gone into mass production or that the nature of the adjustment for use would make them less effective if it became common practice since people might pick up on what their true intent was and stop talking around them. etc.
I think you are overthinking this, Warforged have humanoid heads and mouths, they can eat and drink and while they don't have to breath, they certainly can.
Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
Let me ask you, how do they make sound?
To me not needing to breathe means they don't have to respirate to live. I invision their creators made most of them in their own image (bi-pedal humanoids). So making a device like a larynx which moves air to make sound seems like an obvious decision. Instead of trying to whole cloth make something new. This means they can take in air to speak or play instruments, but it's not necessary to live.
In the same way no one asks how a vampire speaks or if it can play a flute, because it doesn't "need" air to live.
Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
Just me personally, It would depend on if its a player character design or a GM NPC. I would generally have warforge as machines of war not built in a world since for such things. I would usually consider a PC warforge to be a prototype. So if a player had a warforge bard from level 1 that played a flute, I would allow it as prototype design built for the purpose. You can always justify war forge experimentation on a small scale as part of the arms race development or as a warforge modifying itself after being liberated to stand out from other warforged of the same model and gain personal identity. I generally don't do it with random warforge NPCs unless its for a specific story hook so that unique player Warforged are more rare and more interesting from the player and the world prospective. If I was going to make it a related story hook worforged NPC, it would likely be related to the players warforged background. If I had a warforged bard in my group for example, I might have them once been part of a warforged band, used to gather intelligence and/or entertaining troops in a combat zone etc. Each of those designed to play a specific instrument or something. However, that would be a one time hook with characters that might pop in a couple of times and if they died they would be irrepealable. That way a player has agency over their character and also has impact on the world through their choices but I don't have to adjust the rest of the world to them. Its also easy to justify that they had not gone into mass production or that the nature of the adjustment for use would make them less effective if it became common practice since people might pick up on what their true intent was and stop talking around them. etc.
I think you are overthinking this, Warforged have humanoid heads and mouths, they can eat and drink and while they don't have to breath, they certainly can.
You can dismiss my point of view as over thinking if you want but its really not that complicated enough to be overthinking. I am just wordy and in-concise. I mean do you really thing that idea that "military design is almost entirely base on function and not unnecessary aesthetics that would raise cost and slow production" is complicated? The are warforged, made in mass for war. If they break the common mold in production it was done for specific reason for a specific series. If they were altered after the fact, its unique to that unit as to why. Eather way, those are generally the kind of background choice I would leave to a player... again not complicated. Nothing says, warforged can or can not drink, eat, breath... so your adding rules that don't exist and taking player agency if that's not what they want...why?
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The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
Let me ask you, how do they make sound?
To me not needing to breathe means they don't have to respirate to live. I invision their creators made most of them in their own image (bi-pedal humanoids). So making a device like a larynx which moves air to make sound seems like an obvious decision. Instead of trying to whole cloth make something new. This means they can take in air to speak or play instruments, but it's not necessary to live.
In the same way no one asks how a vampire speaks or if it can play a flute, because it doesn't "need" air to live.
But by rules, their is nothing requiring that. So maybe they speak using a vibrating enchanted rock in the mount and have not throat. Sure they are bi-pedal humanoids it makes them easier to interact and understand how to make them operate in a primarily bi-pedal world. There is however no rule or reason, they could not operate differently. The who ever makes it needs to write it down and if its not the GM , the GM needs to agree to allow it. Just like blue tieflings with crazy horns or anything else. If its different from the Warfoged the GM is using as a default, but the GM is okay with it being a special line or prototype than it just adds flavor and details to the campaign and world. There is no official, right answer here. I simply suggest the its generally better to grant Players agency over their character design as much as possible. Make them aware that impact to game play should be slight and if they exist the GM can use them too. For example, if tiefling was ice based and used hellish rebuke as ICE damage that would be fine... it then means, it doesn't get to change back to fire when it suites them and if they run across another tiefling that's the same, unless we have established and maybe still ten they are entirely unique.
That said, if you GM wants a players character to be "just like" other characters despite being a warforged… that's between you and your GM. Some GM don't care about player agency and its got to be their way. If that's your GM and you want to play under them then you have to except that. Some players can still have fun playing with a Story Teller GM dictating everything and just enjoying the show like a movie. Other player's can't stand that and want input into a shared world being primarily reasonable control about parts of their character that are not locked down by the rules. You might change as a player or GM and start with open player agency but then decide a campaign on rails is fine. You could also start on rails like training wheels but one day want them off to gain freedom to experiment and immerser yourself further in the world you want to now help form. People play both types of games. RPG table top or video games have variations of character creation vs static pregens for greater focus on story telling or stories that follow the same rails vs stories where you choose your own path, other are find just watching and rolling the dice once in a while like they are just watch movies and if the leave the table happy like leaving the theater after a good movie that's fine. You need to find out what works and what doesn't work at your table. If there is no rule, don't let others dictated what the right fun is. Everything here should be taken as a suggestion or point of thought not "the better or correct way to play".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
Just me personally, It would depend on if its a player character design or a GM NPC. I would generally have warforge as machines of war not built in a world since for such things.
I mean...armies in our world used to be led by guys like this: :)
Nothing says, warforged can or can not drink, eat, breath... so your adding rules that don't exist and taking player agency if that's not what they want...why?
I am not adding rules, as you say, it doesn't say they can't, the original question was "can they play wind instrument" The answer is yes. Anything beyond that to me is overthinking it. If you want to go nuts describing how they have these big assembly lines and are rolling theses things out like Model Ts and come up with a million little details of production go for it, this forum is all about discussion, but let's not pretend it isn't a dumb thing to argue about, it's all just silly fun.
Well, bellows are just stupid lungs. Fans would allow for indefinite notes, too.
I mean so would two independent bellows ;)
As would modulating the force and the aperture of the bellows. As would a mechanical form of circular breathing, which humans can do with their lungs and mouth.
Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
Just me personally, It would depend on if its a player character design or a GM NPC. I would generally have warforge as machines of war not built in a world since for such things.
I mean...armies in our world used to be led by guys like this: :)
Yep and they served a purpose. Some of their songs are used to push orders because they are louder than a person yelling. They also help with moral. On top of that their uniforms and instruments are assembly line simple, just as I would expect a warforged to be built. Those bright red coats were mostly so you didn't shoot the troops on your side. Even in the medieval period drums and flags were often used to form better trained troops.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
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Warforged do not breathe and have no lips to form a seal over an instrument. Can they play wind instruments if they want to (like they can eat if they want to even though they don't need to) or are they limited to other instruments?
This is one of those questions that only a truly bored DM could think up.
Seeing as how their race sheet doesn't specify that they cannot play wind instruments despite the obvious physical limitations, I guess the answer is yes because magic. However, I think homeruling Warforged bards as being forced to play percussion would be both appropriate and hilarious.
"The Epic Level Handbook wasn't that bad, guys.
Guys, pls."
Like eating, it simply says they do not need to breath, not that they are incapable of doing so, nothing would prevent them from playing a wind instrument.
I see no reason they couldn't have an integrated bellows which would allow them to play an instrument. Once I made a warforged with their integrated tool being bagpipes, great when you Nat 1 a stealth check
They are capable of talking, I see no reason they wouldn't be able to play a wind instrument.
Warforged can modify themselves, so why not a lips add on? Considering how tired my flesh lips get playing the oboe, it'd be really nice to have metal lips that never don't get tired in the middle of Mahler!
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
Just me personally, It would depend on if its a player character design or a GM NPC. I would generally have warforge as machines of war not built in a world since for such things. I would usually consider a PC warforge to be a prototype. So if a player had a warforge bard from level 1 that played a flute, I would allow it as prototype design built for the purpose. You can always justify war forge experimentation on a small scale as part of the arms race development or as a warforge modifying itself after being liberated to stand out from other warforged of the same model and gain personal identity. I generally don't do it with random warforge NPCs unless its for a specific story hook so that unique player Warforged are more rare and more interesting from the player and the world prospective. If I was going to make it a related story hook worforged NPC, it would likely be related to the players warforged background. If I had a warforged bard in my group for example, I might have them once been part of a warforged band, used to gather intelligence and/or entertaining troops in a combat zone etc. Each of those designed to play a specific instrument or something. However, that would be a one time hook with characters that might pop in a couple of times and if they died they would be irrepealable. That way a player has agency over their character and also has impact on the world through their choices but I don't have to adjust the rest of the world to them. Its also easy to justify that they had not gone into mass production or that the nature of the adjustment for use would make them less effective if it became common practice since people might pick up on what their true intent was and stop talking around them. etc.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I think you are overthinking this, Warforged have humanoid heads and mouths, they can eat and drink and while they don't have to breath, they certainly can.
Let me ask you, how do they make sound?
To me not needing to breathe means they don't have to respirate to live. I invision their creators made most of them in their own image (bi-pedal humanoids). So making a device like a larynx which moves air to make sound seems like an obvious decision. Instead of trying to whole cloth make something new. This means they can take in air to speak or play instruments, but it's not necessary to live.
In the same way no one asks how a vampire speaks or if it can play a flute, because it doesn't "need" air to live.
You can dismiss my point of view as over thinking if you want but its really not that complicated enough to be overthinking. I am just wordy and in-concise. I mean do you really thing that idea that "military design is almost entirely base on function and not unnecessary aesthetics that would raise cost and slow production" is complicated? The are warforged, made in mass for war. If they break the common mold in production it was done for specific reason for a specific series. If they were altered after the fact, its unique to that unit as to why. Eather way, those are generally the kind of background choice I would leave to a player... again not complicated. Nothing says, warforged can or can not drink, eat, breath... so your adding rules that don't exist and taking player agency if that's not what they want...why?
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
But by rules, their is nothing requiring that. So maybe they speak using a vibrating enchanted rock in the mount and have not throat. Sure they are bi-pedal humanoids it makes them easier to interact and understand how to make them operate in a primarily bi-pedal world. There is however no rule or reason, they could not operate differently. The who ever makes it needs to write it down and if its not the GM , the GM needs to agree to allow it. Just like blue tieflings with crazy horns or anything else. If its different from the Warfoged the GM is using as a default, but the GM is okay with it being a special line or prototype than it just adds flavor and details to the campaign and world. There is no official, right answer here. I simply suggest the its generally better to grant Players agency over their character design as much as possible. Make them aware that impact to game play should be slight and if they exist the GM can use them too. For example, if tiefling was ice based and used hellish rebuke as ICE damage that would be fine... it then means, it doesn't get to change back to fire when it suites them and if they run across another tiefling that's the same, unless we have established and maybe still ten they are entirely unique.
That said, if you GM wants a players character to be "just like" other characters despite being a warforged… that's between you and your GM. Some GM don't care about player agency and its got to be their way. If that's your GM and you want to play under them then you have to except that. Some players can still have fun playing with a Story Teller GM dictating everything and just enjoying the show like a movie. Other player's can't stand that and want input into a shared world being primarily reasonable control about parts of their character that are not locked down by the rules. You might change as a player or GM and start with open player agency but then decide a campaign on rails is fine. You could also start on rails like training wheels but one day want them off to gain freedom to experiment and immerser yourself further in the world you want to now help form. People play both types of games. RPG table top or video games have variations of character creation vs static pregens for greater focus on story telling or stories that follow the same rails vs stories where you choose your own path, other are find just watching and rolling the dice once in a while like they are just watch movies and if the leave the table happy like leaving the theater after a good movie that's fine. You need to find out what works and what doesn't work at your table. If there is no rule, don't let others dictated what the right fun is. Everything here should be taken as a suggestion or point of thought not "the better or correct way to play".
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I mean...armies in our world used to be led by guys like this: :)
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
Really? No one brought up internal fans to explain expelling breath?
Someone mentioned bellows. Are fans more obvious?
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
Well, bellows are just stupid lungs. Fans would allow for indefinite notes, too.
I mean so would two independent bellows ;)
I am not adding rules, as you say, it doesn't say they can't, the original question was "can they play wind instrument" The answer is yes. Anything beyond that to me is overthinking it. If you want to go nuts describing how they have these big assembly lines and are rolling theses things out like Model Ts and come up with a million little details of production go for it, this forum is all about discussion, but let's not pretend it isn't a dumb thing to argue about, it's all just silly fun.
As would modulating the force and the aperture of the bellows. As would a mechanical form of circular breathing, which humans can do with their lungs and mouth.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
I just tried imagining how that would feel to my human body and it's remarkably uncomfortable.
Yep and they served a purpose. Some of their songs are used to push orders because they are louder than a person yelling. They also help with moral. On top of that their uniforms and instruments are assembly line simple, just as I would expect a warforged to be built. Those bright red coats were mostly so you didn't shoot the troops on your side. Even in the medieval period drums and flags were often used to form better trained troops.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.