You are comparing 2 v 1 instead of 1v1 ... And the only way a fighter can use their bonus action to attack is with an off handed weapon. By your logic someone could also cast haste on me meaning I still attack more....
Partially, maybe, when it comes to 6th level, but it'a a party being optimized in such a statement. A person can argue the 2v1 but applyung 2v1 with swift quiver doesn't increase the number of attacks while maintaining apples to apples.
The fighter with the bonus action attack in an archer build is doing it with bonus feats to include crossbow expertise and sharpshooter. TWF is just an alternative option for the number of atracks. Polearm mastery would also work.
The argument that adding swift quiver is OP using secrets because it's a ranger spell was invalidated when I pointed out the same bard could pick up the same number of attacks in a lower level slot by picking up haste instead, and haste also adds AC and movement too. It's the same concentration cost and uses the bonus action attack also from crossbow expertise, twf, or some other source. Plus haste can be handed out.
It's also invalidated because spells are rated for roughly equivalent power levels by spell level independently of character level. It's in the beginning of the PHB section on magic for reference.
actiually, the swift quiver spell allows you to make two ranged attacks with a single bonus action, wereas haste has an prerequisite were the single additional action per turn can only be used to make a single attack, not multiple, still haste might be better due to added versatillity
I know that.
The point was swift quiver uses the bonus action and concentration. Using the same bonus action from another source plus the same concentratration with haste also gives 2 bonus attacks but with a lower level more versatile spell. Therefore using secrets for swiftquiver cannot possibly be OP just because it's normally exclusive to rangers.
That seems pretty obvious.
of course yes, your point still stands, it is still an balanced spell even in the hands of an bard, perhaps even a bit underpowered but hey if you are an archery based valor bard it might be worth a try, of course also if you are not an valor bard or an sword bard you might be better of picking up some other spell, notably the 6th level spell tensers transformation
There are so many good spells it's hard to pick, lol. I usually have raise dead and greater restoration for 5th level spells. Animate objects is a strong way to go for extra attacks with a bonus action and doesn't require secrets at all. ;-)
Tensor's transformation leaves a level of exhaustion on a failed save, duplictates extra attack, and gives proficienciy for armor that needs to be carried and donned for the spell. I have not tried it on a bard but the spell doesn't appeal to me enough.
ah yes but consider this: find greater steed, and then use true polymorph on your CR 2 steed to turn it into a CR 2 centaur, any spell that targets only you also targets steed, so you get to double dip since your centaur buddy can weild weapons, get a bunch of lances for the heck of it and yeah probably suboptimal but defenetly fun
also this post is about the magical secrets feature, the one that allows you to steal any spell from any spell list, those 5th level spells are all from the bard list...
That's because bard spells are included in the spells available to magical secrets. Magical secrets is any list including bard, and at 10th level when it becomes available there is no other way to pick up more of those 5th level bard spells.
I would not skip good bard spells with secrets just because I can also use secrets for other lists. I need to add those good spells somehow too. ;-)
yeah but it is just such a waste, yeah you can pick up bard spells but like, you get so many opportunities to learn new bard spells, you can do so all the time, and you can replace bard spells you already know with new ones, but to learn a spell outside the bard list is something you only get when you reach 10th level and only once every two levels, so only two more opportunities after 10th level to ever do this, it just feels so frivoulous, so wrong to not use this opportunity, like i get it if you simply feel that everything you want for your character exists in the bard spell list, and i am not saying you absolutely must pick outside the bard list if doing so does not fit your character, but it just feels like an massive waste
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
You are comparing 2 v 1 instead of 1v1 ... And the only way a fighter can use their bonus action to attack is with an off handed weapon. By your logic someone could also cast haste on me meaning I still attack more....
Partially, maybe, when it comes to 6th level, but it'a a party being optimized in such a statement. A person can argue the 2v1 but applyung 2v1 with swift quiver doesn't increase the number of attacks while maintaining apples to apples.
The fighter with the bonus action attack in an archer build is doing it with bonus feats to include crossbow expertise and sharpshooter. TWF is just an alternative option for the number of atracks. Polearm mastery would also work.
The argument that adding swift quiver is OP using secrets because it's a ranger spell was invalidated when I pointed out the same bard could pick up the same number of attacks in a lower level slot by picking up haste instead, and haste also adds AC and movement too. It's the same concentration cost and uses the bonus action attack also from crossbow expertise, twf, or some other source. Plus haste can be handed out.
It's also invalidated because spells are rated for roughly equivalent power levels by spell level independently of character level. It's in the beginning of the PHB section on magic for reference.
actiually, the swift quiver spell allows you to make two ranged attacks with a single bonus action, wereas haste has an prerequisite were the single additional action per turn can only be used to make a single attack, not multiple, still haste might be better due to added versatillity
I know that.
The point was swift quiver uses the bonus action and concentration. Using the same bonus action from another source plus the same concentratration with haste also gives 2 bonus attacks but with a lower level more versatile spell. Therefore using secrets for swiftquiver cannot possibly be OP just because it's normally exclusive to rangers.
That seems pretty obvious.
of course yes, your point still stands, it is still an balanced spell even in the hands of an bard, perhaps even a bit underpowered but hey if you are an archery based valor bard it might be worth a try, of course also if you are not an valor bard or an sword bard you might be better of picking up some other spell, notably the 6th level spell tensers transformation
There are so many good spells it's hard to pick, lol. I usually have raise dead and greater restoration for 5th level spells. Animate objects is a strong way to go for extra attacks with a bonus action and doesn't require secrets at all. ;-)
Tensor's transformation leaves a level of exhaustion on a failed save, duplictates extra attack, and gives proficienciy for armor that needs to be carried and donned for the spell. I have not tried it on a bard but the spell doesn't appeal to me enough.
ah yes but consider this: find greater steed, and then use true polymorph on your CR 2 steed to turn it into a CR 2 centaur, any spell that targets only you also targets steed, so you get to double dip since your centaur buddy can weild weapons, get a bunch of lances for the heck of it and yeah probably suboptimal but defenetly fun
also this post is about the magical secrets feature, the one that allows you to steal any spell from any spell list, those 5th level spells are all from the bard list...
That's because bard spells are included in the spells available to magical secrets. Magical secrets is any list including bard, and at 10th level when it becomes available there is no other way to pick up more of those 5th level bard spells.
I would not skip good bard spells with secrets just because I can also use secrets for other lists. I need to add those good spells somehow too. ;-)
yeah but it is just such a waste, yeah you can pick up bard spells but like, you get so many opportunities to learn new bard spells, you can do so all the time, and you can replace bard spells you already know with new ones, but to learn a spell outside the bard list is something you only get when you reach 10th level and only once every two levels, so only two more opportunities after 10th level to ever do this, it just feels so frivoulous, so wrong to not use this opportunity, like i get it if you simply feel that everything you want for your character exists in the bard spell list, and i am not saying you absolutely must pick outside the bard list if doing so does not fit your character, but it just feels like an massive waste
Picking a good spell is not a waste and there are many on the bard spell list. Replacing a good spell with another good spell still lost a good spell and learning new spells is still limited to the spells known limitation on the bard advancement table. A person cannot just learn all the good bard spells all the time. ;-)
The fact that a spell become available that's not on the bard spell list doesn't make that spell somehow more powerful or optimal than the spells already on the bard spell list. Taking swift quiver at 10th level when I could have animate objects already at 9th level is a prime example. There's no reason not to use secrets for more bard spells other than "because you don't have to" and that's not a strong reason. It's always a case of examining all the options (bard spells and other lists) to make those choices.
You are comparing 2 v 1 instead of 1v1 ... And the only way a fighter can use their bonus action to attack is with an off handed weapon. By your logic someone could also cast haste on me meaning I still attack more....
Partially, maybe, when it comes to 6th level, but it'a a party being optimized in such a statement. A person can argue the 2v1 but applyung 2v1 with swift quiver doesn't increase the number of attacks while maintaining apples to apples.
The fighter with the bonus action attack in an archer build is doing it with bonus feats to include crossbow expertise and sharpshooter. TWF is just an alternative option for the number of atracks. Polearm mastery would also work.
The argument that adding swift quiver is OP using secrets because it's a ranger spell was invalidated when I pointed out the same bard could pick up the same number of attacks in a lower level slot by picking up haste instead, and haste also adds AC and movement too. It's the same concentration cost and uses the bonus action attack also from crossbow expertise, twf, or some other source. Plus haste can be handed out.
It's also invalidated because spells are rated for roughly equivalent power levels by spell level independently of character level. It's in the beginning of the PHB section on magic for reference.
actiually, the swift quiver spell allows you to make two ranged attacks with a single bonus action, wereas haste has an prerequisite were the single additional action per turn can only be used to make a single attack, not multiple, still haste might be better due to added versatillity
I know that.
The point was swift quiver uses the bonus action and concentration. Using the same bonus action from another source plus the same concentratration with haste also gives 2 bonus attacks but with a lower level more versatile spell. Therefore using secrets for swiftquiver cannot possibly be OP just because it's normally exclusive to rangers.
That seems pretty obvious.
of course yes, your point still stands, it is still an balanced spell even in the hands of an bard, perhaps even a bit underpowered but hey if you are an archery based valor bard it might be worth a try, of course also if you are not an valor bard or an sword bard you might be better of picking up some other spell, notably the 6th level spell tensers transformation
There are so many good spells it's hard to pick, lol. I usually have raise dead and greater restoration for 5th level spells. Animate objects is a strong way to go for extra attacks with a bonus action and doesn't require secrets at all. ;-)
Tensor's transformation leaves a level of exhaustion on a failed save, duplictates extra attack, and gives proficienciy for armor that needs to be carried and donned for the spell. I have not tried it on a bard but the spell doesn't appeal to me enough.
ah yes but consider this: find greater steed, and then use true polymorph on your CR 2 steed to turn it into a CR 2 centaur, any spell that targets only you also targets steed, so you get to double dip since your centaur buddy can weild weapons, get a bunch of lances for the heck of it and yeah probably suboptimal but defenetly fun
also this post is about the magical secrets feature, the one that allows you to steal any spell from any spell list, those 5th level spells are all from the bard list...
That's because bard spells are included in the spells available to magical secrets. Magical secrets is any list including bard, and at 10th level when it becomes available there is no other way to pick up more of those 5th level bard spells.
I would not skip good bard spells with secrets just because I can also use secrets for other lists. I need to add those good spells somehow too. ;-)
yeah but it is just such a waste, yeah you can pick up bard spells but like, you get so many opportunities to learn new bard spells, you can do so all the time, and you can replace bard spells you already know with new ones, but to learn a spell outside the bard list is something you only get when you reach 10th level and only once every two levels, so only two more opportunities after 10th level to ever do this, it just feels so frivoulous, so wrong to not use this opportunity, like i get it if you simply feel that everything you want for your character exists in the bard spell list, and i am not saying you absolutely must pick outside the bard list if doing so does not fit your character, but it just feels like an massive waste
Picking a good spell is not a waste and there are many on the bard spell list. Replacing a good spell with another good spell still lost a good spell and learning new spells is still limited to the spells known limitation on the bard advancement table. A person cannot just learn all the good bard spells all the time. ;-)
The fact that a spell become available that's not on the bard spell list doesn't make that spell somehow more powerful or optimal than the spells already on the bard spell list. Taking swift quiver at 10th level when I could have animate objects already at 9th level is a prime example. There's no reason not to use secrets for more bard spells other than "because you don't have to" and that's not a strong reason. It's always a case of examining all the options (bard spells and other lists) to make those choices.
yeah but its like, you are in a bakery, have all these tasty pastries baguettes, cinnamon rolls, i wish i could go on but i dont eat, and then you pick out the plain white bread. Nothing wrong with the choice, a fine choice, but amid these endless possibilities the choice just seems so incredebly dull, like you could pick all these diffrent options, create hordes of the dead, fling balls of fire, summon fiends from the lower planes, completely nullify the spells of other spellcasters (something bards do excell at), and yet you choose to take a few spells from the normal bard spell list, an compartively grounded choice, staying humle like yes the bard spell list on it own has some pretty ridiculous things like i can just have an army of sentient bears who are all charmed by me, or give a semplence of life to lifeless objects or raise the dead, all of them are of course great spells, but it feels like a missed opportunity, a sunk cost
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
There's no reason not to use secrets for more bard spells other than "because you don't have to" and that's not a strong reason. It's always a case of examining all the options (bard spells and other lists) to make those choices.
While its true that you should grab whatever spells are optimal for you--Bard spell or non-Bard spell--it seems odd that one would almost ever go for Bard spells with Magical Secrets.
Bard Spells are only a subset of all the ones available at a given level; there will always be more spells that are non-Bard spells at that level, and the idea that none of those non-Bard spells would be just as tempting as the Bard spells is suspect.
Now, that said, if that's how you genuinely see it, you do you. But that's not advice I'd give a new player, because in the majority of cases, I'd suspect they're not thinking things through and would be far better off (and far happier) if they spent the time thoroughly examining all the extra options Magical Secrets is providing.
There's no reason not to use secrets for more bard spells other than "because you don't have to" and that's not a strong reason. It's always a case of examining all the options (bard spells and other lists) to make those choices.
While its true that you should grab whatever spells are optimal for you--Bard spell or non-Bard spell--it seems odd that one would almost ever go for Bard spells with Magical Secrets.
Bard Spells are only a subset of all the ones available at a given level; there will always be more spells that are non-Bard spells at that level, and the idea that none of those non-Bard spells would be just as tempting as the Bard spells is suspect.
Now, that said, if that's how you genuinely see it, you do you. But that's not advice I'd give a new player, because in the majority of cases, I'd suspect they're not thinking things through and would be far better off (and far happier) if they spent the time thoroughly examining all the extra options Magical Secrets is providing.
My advice is look at all the spells and then make a choice. The alternative advice seems to be ignore bard spells and then make a choice. Looking at all the spells is a more informed decision of the options and better advice. It makes zero sense to ignore options when choosing which spells might be desired for the build.
Case in point would be the healing builds. Mass cure wounds, greater restoration, and raise dead are typical healing spells but impossible for the bard to take without using secrets to add them. Bard spell progression give one 5th level spell at 9th level. The only way to expand on that is to swap out spells presumably taken because they were already useful (upswapping from a lower level spell known) or selecting a 5th level spell later on instead of a higher level spell, which would lock out an entire level's worth of bard spells following the idea that magical secrets should never be used for bard spells.
Spell progression allows for 1 5th level spell (at 9th level), 1 6th level spell (at 11th level), 1 7th level spell (at 13th level), 1 8th level spell (at 15th level), and 1 9th level spell (at 17th level). It makes no sense to swap a lot of lower level spells because that's where all the spell slots are. Looking specifically outside of bard spells requires the assumption that bard spells are not as good as other spell lists, which is untrue, and focusses on more non-bard spells than bard spells (6 vs 5) when adding additional spells known for spell levels of 5th and above.
Are you seriously going to tell me there aren't several high level bard spells worth adding? Just because a spell is on the bard list does not make it a poor choice for secrets.
There's no reason not to use secrets for more bard spells other than "because you don't have to" and that's not a strong reason. It's always a case of examining all the options (bard spells and other lists) to make those choices.
While its true that you should grab whatever spells are optimal for you--Bard spell or non-Bard spell--it seems odd that one would almost ever go for Bard spells with Magical Secrets.
Bard Spells are only a subset of all the ones available at a given level; there will always be more spells that are non-Bard spells at that level, and the idea that none of those non-Bard spells would be just as tempting as the Bard spells is suspect.
Now, that said, if that's how you genuinely see it, you do you. But that's not advice I'd give a new player, because in the majority of cases, I'd suspect they're not thinking things through and would be far better off (and far happier) if they spent the time thoroughly examining all the extra options Magical Secrets is providing.
My advice is look at all the spells and then make a choice. The alternative advice seems to be ignore bard spells and then make a choice. Looking at all the spells is a more informed decision of the options and better advice. It makes zero sense to ignore options when choosing which spells might be desired for the build.
I agree with this.
My point though, is that when you're looking at ALL the spells available, and not just Bard spells, the chances of a Bard spell being the optimal choice will usually be (my estimate) less than 50-50 for at least two reasons: (1) There are plenty of non-Bard spells just as good as the Bard spells, and (2) you'll have plenty more chances later to pick up more Bard spells, then you will to pick up more non-Bard spells.
Case in point would be the healing builds. Mass cure wounds, greater restoration, and raise dead are typical healing spells but impossible for the bard to take without using secrets to add them.
But it's NOT impossible, even if you're talking about taking all three of them.
If you want just one of them, take it at 9th level.
If you want two of them, then take one at 9th level, and either take the second at 11th level or replace a lower-level spell with it.
If you want all three, then take one at 9th level, replace a lower-level spell with the second, and either take the third at 11th level or replace a lower-level spell with it at 10th level.
At no point are you forced to lose any of them. Sure, if for some reason this combination is so important that it can't wait until 11th level, and yet you ALSO can't lose any of your previous spells (even though apparently none of them were healing,) then ok, use Magical Secrets to grab two of them. But even if you decide that that's the right call for your build, it's highly likely for most people that that will be a painfully sub-optimal decision.
It makes no sense to swap a lot of lower level spells because that's where all the spell slots are.
I think this belief is what is most heavily influencing your perspective. Personally, I find that as my Bards progress in level, I almost never find myself wishing I had more low-level spells. I usually find myself wishing I had more high-level spell options, even at the expense of lower-level ones. I suspect that most people have no problem swapping out Healing Word and replacing it with Mass Cure Wounds. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. Or with replacing Tasha's Hideous Laughter with ANY of these three, if they're deemed that necessary. Again, I'm not saying your decision to NOT swap is wrong, just that I strongly suspect most people don't have that hang-up.
Looking specifically outside of bard spells requires the assumption that bard spells are not as good as other spell lists, which is untrue,
No, it doesn't. It just requires recognizing that (1) there are plenty of non-Bard spells that are at least just as good, and (2) you only get a few shots at getting those non-Bard spells. You can swap in another awesome Bard spell any time you want.
Of course, if you treat swapping out low-level spells like chopping off a limb, then yes, you'll have to rely solely on immediate utility to determine which spells to pick (although even then, Bard spells are still less than 50% of what's available to you with Magical Secrets.)
Are you seriously going to tell me there aren't several high level bard spells worth adding?
Of course not. That said, I do think that past 5th-level, Bard spells start being outshined by those of other classes more and more (which isn't really a problem, since, y'know, Magical Secrets and all.) Bluntly, if I saw someone playing a Bard with spells up to 8th-level, but ALL of the high-level spell slots were Bard spells, I'd probably suspect they were a novice.
Just because a spell is on the bard list does not make it a poor choice for secrets.
Not always. But more often it does, if you allow yourself to instead swap in those same Bard spells by replacing lower-level ones.
Because then you can fill your 16 normal spell options with the 16 best Bard spells, AND fill your 6 Magical Secrets spell options with the 6 best non-Bard spells in the game. That's the best of both worlds.
Whereas if you pick Bard spells for Magical Secrets, you're filling your 22 spell options with the 16 best Bard spells... and then the 17th- through 22nd-best Bard spells as well.
yeah but it is just such a waste, yeah you can pick up bard spells but like, you get so many opportunities to learn new bard spells, you can do so all the time, and you can replace bard spells you already know with new ones, but to learn a spell outside the bard list is something you only get when you reach 10th level and only once every two levels, so only two more opportunities after 10th level to ever do this, it just feels so frivoulous, so wrong to not use this opportunity, like i get it if you simply feel that everything you want for your character exists in the bard spell list, and i am not saying you absolutely must pick outside the bard list if doing so does not fit your character, but it just feels like an massive waste
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Picking a good spell is not a waste and there are many on the bard spell list. Replacing a good spell with another good spell still lost a good spell and learning new spells is still limited to the spells known limitation on the bard advancement table. A person cannot just learn all the good bard spells all the time. ;-)
The fact that a spell become available that's not on the bard spell list doesn't make that spell somehow more powerful or optimal than the spells already on the bard spell list. Taking swift quiver at 10th level when I could have animate objects already at 9th level is a prime example. There's no reason not to use secrets for more bard spells other than "because you don't have to" and that's not a strong reason. It's always a case of examining all the options (bard spells and other lists) to make those choices.
yeah but its like, you are in a bakery, have all these tasty pastries baguettes, cinnamon rolls, i wish i could go on but i dont eat, and then you pick out the plain white bread. Nothing wrong with the choice, a fine choice, but amid these endless possibilities the choice just seems so incredebly dull, like you could pick all these diffrent options, create hordes of the dead, fling balls of fire, summon fiends from the lower planes, completely nullify the spells of other spellcasters (something bards do excell at), and yet you choose to take a few spells from the normal bard spell list, an compartively grounded choice, staying humle like yes the bard spell list on it own has some pretty ridiculous things like i can just have an army of sentient bears who are all charmed by me, or give a semplence of life to lifeless objects or raise the dead, all of them are of course great spells, but it feels like a missed opportunity, a sunk cost
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
While its true that you should grab whatever spells are optimal for you--Bard spell or non-Bard spell--it seems odd that one would almost ever go for Bard spells with Magical Secrets.
Bard Spells are only a subset of all the ones available at a given level; there will always be more spells that are non-Bard spells at that level, and the idea that none of those non-Bard spells would be just as tempting as the Bard spells is suspect.
Now, that said, if that's how you genuinely see it, you do you. But that's not advice I'd give a new player, because in the majority of cases, I'd suspect they're not thinking things through and would be far better off (and far happier) if they spent the time thoroughly examining all the extra options Magical Secrets is providing.
Whistler
Titus - V. Human Battle Master Fighter 3 - [Pic] - [Pic2] - [Traits] - in Shadowglass
Locke - V. Human Shadow Monk 3 / Undead Warlock 2 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in FOW - DMless West Marches
Flèche - V. Human Swords Bard 10 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in The Scarlet Mist
Sterling - V. Human Bard 1 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
My advice is look at all the spells and then make a choice. The alternative advice seems to be ignore bard spells and then make a choice. Looking at all the spells is a more informed decision of the options and better advice. It makes zero sense to ignore options when choosing which spells might be desired for the build.
Case in point would be the healing builds. Mass cure wounds, greater restoration, and raise dead are typical healing spells but impossible for the bard to take without using secrets to add them. Bard spell progression give one 5th level spell at 9th level. The only way to expand on that is to swap out spells presumably taken because they were already useful (upswapping from a lower level spell known) or selecting a 5th level spell later on instead of a higher level spell, which would lock out an entire level's worth of bard spells following the idea that magical secrets should never be used for bard spells.
Spell progression allows for 1 5th level spell (at 9th level), 1 6th level spell (at 11th level), 1 7th level spell (at 13th level), 1 8th level spell (at 15th level), and 1 9th level spell (at 17th level). It makes no sense to swap a lot of lower level spells because that's where all the spell slots are. Looking specifically outside of bard spells requires the assumption that bard spells are not as good as other spell lists, which is untrue, and focusses on more non-bard spells than bard spells (6 vs 5) when adding additional spells known for spell levels of 5th and above.
Are you seriously going to tell me there aren't several high level bard spells worth adding? Just because a spell is on the bard list does not make it a poor choice for secrets.
I agree with this.
My point though, is that when you're looking at ALL the spells available, and not just Bard spells, the chances of a Bard spell being the optimal choice will usually be (my estimate) less than 50-50 for at least two reasons: (1) There are plenty of non-Bard spells just as good as the Bard spells, and (2) you'll have plenty more chances later to pick up more Bard spells, then you will to pick up more non-Bard spells.
But it's NOT impossible, even if you're talking about taking all three of them.
If you want just one of them, take it at 9th level.
If you want two of them, then take one at 9th level, and either take the second at 11th level or replace a lower-level spell with it.
If you want all three, then take one at 9th level, replace a lower-level spell with the second, and either take the third at 11th level or replace a lower-level spell with it at 10th level.
At no point are you forced to lose any of them. Sure, if for some reason this combination is so important that it can't wait until 11th level, and yet you ALSO can't lose any of your previous spells (even though apparently none of them were healing,) then ok, use Magical Secrets to grab two of them. But even if you decide that that's the right call for your build, it's highly likely for most people that that will be a painfully sub-optimal decision.
Not always. But more often it does, if you allow yourself to instead swap in those same Bard spells by replacing lower-level ones.
Because then you can fill your 16 normal spell options with the 16 best Bard spells, AND fill your 6 Magical Secrets spell options with the 6 best non-Bard spells in the game. That's the best of both worlds.
Whereas if you pick Bard spells for Magical Secrets, you're filling your 22 spell options with the 16 best Bard spells... and then the 17th- through 22nd-best Bard spells as well.
Most people would find that undesirable.
Whistler
Titus - V. Human Battle Master Fighter 3 - [Pic] - [Pic2] - [Traits] - in Shadowglass
Locke - V. Human Shadow Monk 3 / Undead Warlock 2 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in FOW - DMless West Marches
Flèche - V. Human Swords Bard 10 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in The Scarlet Mist
Sterling - V. Human Bard 1 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf