I love Adrian Von Ziegler and his music on YouTube. I particularly like the song 'Goblinized', which he said came from the idea of a goblin that plays quirky music to enchant and turn people into goblins. To me this is a bard. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or ideas on how to make this bard?
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I guess that depends on whether the character will be from the stated Forgotten Realms goblin culture or some other variant. I have some ideas:
Achag 'vo Ginj is a Booyagh Whip, blessed by Khurgorbaeyag with the ability to inspire his fellow goblins into a euphoric frenzy. He has achieved a high position in his clan and his chieftan is currently mulling over whether to use him to bolster her position further or to have him assassinated before be becomes a threat to her rule. Achag has his own plans, of course. He is a College of Glamour Bard because I think it works well even if you divorce it from the "fey" trappings.
Ibania Twoblades is an expert knife thrower and juggler and founding member of Madame Mittermeier's Mob of Misfits and Malcontents. Their circus troupe makes rounds up and down the Sword Coast entertaining folk with their antics. Most of the troupe consist of so called 'monstrous' races and they titillate the genteel folk of the north with their ne'er-do-well act. All coordinated by the mysterious Madame Mittermeier, whose lineage is unknown, even to the troupe members, as she never removes the widow's veil she wears. Ibania herself is a College of Swords Bard who wields her signature daggers with flourish and vim, astonishing audiences with her blindfolded throws.
The Spider, as they are known to various figures in the underworld, is a ruthless assassin who specializes in untraceable 'accidents' and whose victims never see them coming. People who have hired The Spider in the past say that they never appear the same way twice, changing race and gender every time. Rumours abound that The Spider is a doppleganer. They never quite remember the obsequious little goblin clerk who sets up appointments and takes payments from the clients. In truth The Spider is that very same little goblin clerk, a College of Whispers Bard who manipulates hapless marks into posing as The Spider and conveniently acting as a decoy for competitors or the families of angry marks.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I wouldn't know how to have music turn people into goblins, but maybe illusion and mind control spells? Maybe a goblin in the circus idea I had, but instead of a knife juggler you have the creepy hurdy gurdy player with a weird monkey?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I was thinking of something like getting polymorph. For the idea, maybe a hermit that just lives in a swamp/forest and plays their music on a mushroom. Illusion and mind control seem to fit very well, thanks for that.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
Polymorph is a fourth level spell so you won't get access to it until level seven, but I bet we could make lower level spells work for this concept. Dissonant Whispers can inflict visions of being small and cowardly. Phantasmal Force can convince them that they are a goblin slave being whipped by a goblin that is the same size as them. Crown of Madness again can inflict visions of being a fear crazed goblin. Ooh, Bestow Curse has creative license to do a lot of things, so making their skin start to turn green and maybe shrinking them a bit wouldn't be too out of line, I think. Enemies Abound can accomplish the Crown of Madness thing, but better. Your version of Confusion might make it's victims believe they have been turned to goblins.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
A goblin bard will be pretty rough to pull off. If you do end up going bard, you pretty much have to (in the sense of good optimization) go for a melee oriented subclass (valor or swords).
Which subclass you choose is up to you but swords is more offensively oriented out of the two.
By the sounds of it the important things are being a goblin and the ability to use polymorph. If music is a heavy component send Bard is a good fit but druids, sorcerers, and wizards also have access to spell (Basic spell lists). You could just as easily make it so see "Music" portion of the spell is just how this goblin cast spells. Like the only way it can remember spells is to put a tune to them.
In response to everything: I was actually thinking that glamour could work, as it ties in with the background. Or whispers. I had thought about druid, but it just didn't seem right, also bards have some nature-y spells.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
A goblin bard will be pretty rough to pull off. If you do end up going bard, you pretty much have to (in the sense of good optimization) go for a melee oriented subclass (valor or swords).
Which subclass you choose is up to you but swords is more offensively oriented out of the two.
I don't... follow... why this is true?
A goblin gets Dex and Con bonuses, extra damage to a single attack once per rest, darkvision, and the ability to hide or disengage as a bonus action. None of those features demand you be in melee, and the bonus action feature actually encourages you to escape or avoid melee. In fact, rp-wise, being a spellcaster means you have booyagh. In goblin culture, this means you likely belong to one of the leadership castes, and goblin leadership tends to be more back-line oriented (don't believe me? See Goblin Boss, who has an ability to literally throw other goblins in their path to avoid getting hit).
A goblin glamour bard would be a radical support caster, and being feytouched would definitely justify the kind of character you have in mind. Every now and then, you can give a damaging spell a little extra zip with your Fury of the Small feature, you can cast spells from hiding, and if you get caught in the thick of the fighting, you can use disengage to escape. Extra Dex and Con allow you to be a little bolder, so you can get a little closer to use the glamour support abilities than a paper-thin charisma-based class.
As for pursuing the ability to turn people into goblins, talk to your DM about a homebrew magic item. Maybe your character could make something like one of the instruments of the bards, except it casts polymorph, and can only change targets into goblins. I think that's a magic item that would be really fun to make, and would be really memorable.
I think you answered your own question without realizing it.
You can certainly go with any subclass but those features which you described are great for a melee caster bard. You have great stat buffs for the melee side of things (vs the heavier spell caster sub class which would look for a charisma boost).
Also the ability to escape combat is excellent. If you get caught up somewhere having the ability to disengage is great, especially if you want to switch focus to spell-casting and need to avoid your concentration being broken (con stat boost is nice for this too as well as dexterity for AC). Fury of the small works great for your attacks (you can apply it to attack of opportunity which you most likely wouldn’t do going for a full-caster class).
I’m not saying this would put the subclass a whole notch above the rest, my point is that the race/subclass combo, for optimization purpose, is the better option than going full-caster (remember to keep in mind there’s no stat boost to charisma).
Half elf lore bards are very good. As for starting with a lower charisma I entirely understand that it’s possible and can work just fine, however for character optimization, it’s best to maximize your charisma stat (obviously) for spellcasting and being the face of your property (even if you don’t end up being the face, it’s never a bad thing to have high persuasion/deception/intimidation).
Seeming sounds like the spell you want, though it doesn't come online for a long time. Possibly a watered-down version could be homebrewed to act like Countercharm, where you have to spend your action playing your instrument to maintain the effect.
It has a saving throw, but at least it affects an unlimited number of targets (in range)... I can't think of any other way to turn a room full of people into Goblins... True Polymorph would do one creature per long rest. With a high level slot.
Yes, and I completely understand that. I was stating if they preferred to go for the optimized route with a goblin bard that was your best bet.
I seriously think you are all misunderstanding my stance. I am not saying it is the only subclass a goblin bard can play, I am saying it’s the best options you have as an optimized goblin bard.
I love Adrian Von Ziegler and his music on YouTube. I particularly like the song 'Goblinized', which he said came from the idea of a goblin that plays quirky music to enchant and turn people into goblins. To me this is a bard. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or ideas on how to make this bard?
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
I guess that depends on whether the character will be from the stated Forgotten Realms goblin culture or some other variant. I have some ideas:
Achag 'vo Ginj is a Booyagh Whip, blessed by Khurgorbaeyag with the ability to inspire his fellow goblins into a euphoric frenzy. He has achieved a high position in his clan and his chieftan is currently mulling over whether to use him to bolster her position further or to have him assassinated before be becomes a threat to her rule. Achag has his own plans, of course. He is a College of Glamour Bard because I think it works well even if you divorce it from the "fey" trappings.
Ibania Twoblades is an expert knife thrower and juggler and founding member of Madame Mittermeier's Mob of Misfits and Malcontents. Their circus troupe makes rounds up and down the Sword Coast entertaining folk with their antics. Most of the troupe consist of so called 'monstrous' races and they titillate the genteel folk of the north with their ne'er-do-well act. All coordinated by the mysterious Madame Mittermeier, whose lineage is unknown, even to the troupe members, as she never removes the widow's veil she wears. Ibania herself is a College of Swords Bard who wields her signature daggers with flourish and vim, astonishing audiences with her blindfolded throws.
The Spider, as they are known to various figures in the underworld, is a ruthless assassin who specializes in untraceable 'accidents' and whose victims never see them coming. People who have hired The Spider in the past say that they never appear the same way twice, changing race and gender every time. Rumours abound that The Spider is a doppleganer. They never quite remember the obsequious little goblin clerk who sets up appointments and takes payments from the clients. In truth The Spider is that very same little goblin clerk, a College of Whispers Bard who manipulates hapless marks into posing as The Spider and conveniently acting as a decoy for competitors or the families of angry marks.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I wouldn't know how to have music turn people into goblins, but maybe illusion and mind control spells? Maybe a goblin in the circus idea I had, but instead of a knife juggler you have the creepy hurdy gurdy player with a weird monkey?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I was thinking of something like getting polymorph. For the idea, maybe a hermit that just lives in a swamp/forest and plays their music on a mushroom. Illusion and mind control seem to fit very well, thanks for that.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
Polymorph is a fourth level spell so you won't get access to it until level seven, but I bet we could make lower level spells work for this concept. Dissonant Whispers can inflict visions of being small and cowardly. Phantasmal Force can convince them that they are a goblin slave being whipped by a goblin that is the same size as them. Crown of Madness again can inflict visions of being a fear crazed goblin. Ooh, Bestow Curse has creative license to do a lot of things, so making their skin start to turn green and maybe shrinking them a bit wouldn't be too out of line, I think. Enemies Abound can accomplish the Crown of Madness thing, but better. Your version of Confusion might make it's victims believe they have been turned to goblins.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
A goblin bard will be pretty rough to pull off. If you do end up going bard, you pretty much have to (in the sense of good optimization) go for a melee oriented subclass (valor or swords).
Which subclass you choose is up to you but swords is more offensively oriented out of the two.
By the sounds of it the important things are being a goblin and the ability to use polymorph. If music is a heavy component send Bard is a good fit but druids, sorcerers, and wizards also have access to spell (Basic spell lists). You could just as easily make it so see "Music" portion of the spell is just how this goblin cast spells. Like the only way it can remember spells is to put a tune to them.
In response to everything: I was actually thinking that glamour could work, as it ties in with the background. Or whispers. I had thought about druid, but it just didn't seem right, also bards have some nature-y spells.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
I don't... follow... why this is true?
A goblin gets Dex and Con bonuses, extra damage to a single attack once per rest, darkvision, and the ability to hide or disengage as a bonus action. None of those features demand you be in melee, and the bonus action feature actually encourages you to escape or avoid melee. In fact, rp-wise, being a spellcaster means you have booyagh. In goblin culture, this means you likely belong to one of the leadership castes, and goblin leadership tends to be more back-line oriented (don't believe me? See Goblin Boss, who has an ability to literally throw other goblins in their path to avoid getting hit).
A goblin glamour bard would be a radical support caster, and being feytouched would definitely justify the kind of character you have in mind. Every now and then, you can give a damaging spell a little extra zip with your Fury of the Small feature, you can cast spells from hiding, and if you get caught in the thick of the fighting, you can use disengage to escape. Extra Dex and Con allow you to be a little bolder, so you can get a little closer to use the glamour support abilities than a paper-thin charisma-based class.
As for pursuing the ability to turn people into goblins, talk to your DM about a homebrew magic item. Maybe your character could make something like one of the instruments of the bards, except it casts polymorph, and can only change targets into goblins. I think that's a magic item that would be really fun to make, and would be really memorable.
I think you answered your own question without realizing it.
You can certainly go with any subclass but those features which you described are great for a melee caster bard. You have great stat buffs for the melee side of things (vs the heavier spell caster sub class which would look for a charisma boost).
Also the ability to escape combat is excellent. If you get caught up somewhere having the ability to disengage is great, especially if you want to switch focus to spell-casting and need to avoid your concentration being broken (con stat boost is nice for this too as well as dexterity for AC). Fury of the small works great for your attacks (you can apply it to attack of opportunity which you most likely wouldn’t do going for a full-caster class).
I’m not saying this would put the subclass a whole notch above the rest, my point is that the race/subclass combo, for optimization purpose, is the better option than going full-caster (remember to keep in mind there’s no stat boost to charisma).
I'm currently playing a high elf bard, started with 15 charisma. I went lore bard, and took my charisma to 17 at level 4. It works perfectly fine.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
Half elf lore bards are very good. As for starting with a lower charisma I entirely understand that it’s possible and can work just fine, however for character optimization, it’s best to maximize your charisma stat (obviously) for spellcasting and being the face of your property (even if you don’t end up being the face, it’s never a bad thing to have high persuasion/deception/intimidation).
Seeming sounds like the spell you want, though it doesn't come online for a long time. Possibly a watered-down version could be homebrewed to act like Countercharm, where you have to spend your action playing your instrument to maintain the effect.
It has a saving throw, but at least it affects an unlimited number of targets (in range)... I can't think of any other way to turn a room full of people into Goblins... True Polymorph would do one creature per long rest. With a high level slot.
Sometimes people don't care to fully optimize their characters and would rather go for flavor. That's okay, too.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yes, and I completely understand that. I was stating if they preferred to go for the optimized route with a goblin bard that was your best bet.
I seriously think you are all misunderstanding my stance. I am not saying it is the only subclass a goblin bard can play, I am saying it’s the best options you have as an optimized goblin bard.
Yes, I understood. I may have to consider the subclasses, as the more I think, the harder it becomes. The ideas just keep on coming!
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
On the off chance that it existed, I googled "goblin hurdy gurdy" and lo and behold!
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
That's slightly creepy... I'll post a picture later of what they will look like.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!