I hope I do not get too many eye rolls at my latest character idea. But I was hoping to get a bit of help in regards to fitting class combinations as well as if there is a better order to multi class. I can also mention that I have never multi classed before so there are things I probably do not understand.
Character concept/backstory: I am playing a female drow dancer from Menzoberranzan. She is the 3rd daughter of a very minor noble family. Through her love for dance she feels the presence of Eilistraee and while she might not understand the concept right away of another drow goddess, this presence allows her to find love and joy through dancing. Rising to become one of the best dancers in Menzoberranzan, she is able to put off joining Arach-Tinilith for quite a few years. Eventually her mother forces her to join to help prepare for a house war (thinking long-term). During the first few years here she comes has to put her dancing on pause but at the same time comes into contact with an undercover Eilistraee worshiper in the temple of Lolth. At some point over the next few years a group of houses have banded together to take out her family. While out scouting with a larger group from the academies she is attacked, but escapes and is rescued by the undercover agent mentioned above. This agent is able to help her return to Menzoberranzan, hide her and eventually get her through one of Eilistraees secret portals that are located in the city. From there she is sent to the Promenade (the main temple of Eilistraee which is located in Skullport). She spends years dancing, working for the goddess in the temple, being rehabilitated from the mental damage that has been caused by living in Menzoberranzan, and eventually scouting in the under dark to help other drow escape from Menzoberranzan.
Now (when I actually start playing the character), she has left the Promenade to take part in The Run, a ritual where followers of Eilistraee journey across the surface, relying on their skills and kindness to not be killed for being a drow. While also helping those in need and to show other races that drow can be good. This is her first time to the surface and our game began with her waiting and preparing for the first full moon where she could finally dance in moonlight for Eilistraee. Unknown to her others had heard her music and song, and come to see what it could be.
Mechanics: I began playing as a bard since this is the main entertainer class and my character is first and foremost a dancer. At the moment and after reading a lot about the different subclasses I am torn. According to the guides I have read most pure bards tend to end up relying mostly on their magical skills in combat. I on the other hand would love for her to follow in the footsteps of Eilistraee teachings and become a longsword wielding dancing warrior... but I am not exactly sure how to do this. As of right now I think the best thing might be to take a few levels in Paladin to get the martial aspect that I am looking for. But which subclass to pick? From what I have read, valor bard seems to be more defensive while swords bard is more offensive... and honestly I would prefer to be more offensive in fighting style. But then I wonder if there will be too much overlap in the fighting skills from taking paladin levels... that I should just take the lore bard subclass.
I also wonder if it is better to start out as a bard and then pick up paladin levels or the other way around? And at which point does it make most sense to actually do this?
Edit: if there are other classes/subclasses out there that you think might be able to give me the feel that I am going for then I would be more than happy to hear about them. I just read over swashbuckler and feel like that could be a good option. But it would also potentially be more of an investment compared to paladin. Any thoughts?
Any suggestions or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. :D
Go swords if you want a pure bard. Dip hexblade if you want less MAD using the longswords. The mobility swords gives fits well with the dancer concept and that college is pretty much the least spell castery (cannot use flourishes with spell actions) bard option.
If you plan on using a long sword you will want to use strength anyway. Unless you can get a sunblade.
Dancing around I vision someone in light armor so dex is needed as well.
Con should be at least a 14 to be in the fray.
You don't need 20 Cha but inspiration will be a tight resource until you get them back on short rests.
If you want to focus melee I would go fighter or paladin 6 and lore bard 14. Grab haste at bard 6. This takes awhile to get both extra attack and short rest inspiration dice.
Or you can go sword bard 16 to 18 with paladin 2 or fighter 2 to 4.
Of course entertainer is a background. :P But I meant that seeing as she has a background as a dancer, then it makes a lot of sense to be a bard. ;)
As for dipping into hex blade, I just feel like the idea of going warlock doesn't fit with the purity of the character and her love for dance and Eilistraee. But I totally agree that it is a great option otherwise.
Totally agree, and battle master seems like a very good choice as well. So many options to what you can do. But if I were to go lowest levels of fighter/Paladin possible. Would you do that first or go with some bard levels first?
Totally agree, and battle master seems like a very good choice as well. So many options to what you can do. But if I were to go lowest levels of fighter/Paladin possible. Would you do that first or go with some bard levels first?
Fighter or paladin gives better save proficiencies. Take them first if that's splash you want.
Hmm, I honestly do not know how far I would want to go with them. I just really like the feel of bards... I just want a bit more hit behind their punch.
Will be playing around with different combinations to see if there is something that I like. :D
Honestly I'd probably go swords bard. I'm definitely going to dip a level of hexblade, even though I dislike it. Bard and longsword just do /not/ go together well. Fluff the dip as a pact with one of Eilistraee's lost https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Singing_sword and you're called to locate and wield it.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I've thought a lot about how to create a worshipper of Eilistraee in 5e, and to be honest, there's no perfect fit.
My best takes so far are Bard (Sword or Valor), with a possible MC of some levels of Paladin if you want some smiting and potential religious aspects (Oath of Ancients seems fitting); Bladesinger, whose extra skills mimic much of the Bardic nature (performance, dancing, etc.), although Eilistraee's followers were traditionally more Divine than Arcane; and lastly you can focus more on the Divine nature than melee with a Twilight Cleric (UA material, but hopefully canon soon with Tasha's).
Honestly, though, my favourite of the three is probably a Bard X / Paladin 2 or 3 using a longsword with two hands to emulate the bastard sword is a good setup, unless you can somehow convince your DM to get you a finesse-able longsword. STR build is tricky here, but if you want to be accurate, that was her weapon of choice traditionally. Sword works best here for damage output and dancing around a battlefield, although Valor later in life becomes a true gish with the cast + slash option. Your choice.
If you're sticking to the PHB, then College of Valor. If not, then College of Swords. And I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest some ability scores...
12 str, 15 dex, 14 con, 8 int, 10 wis, and 16 cha (Assuming you don't shuffle things around using Tasha's or the new DDAL rules)
The higher-than-normal strength because either way you gain proficiency with medium armor and you'll probably want it. The 15 dex is to help break ties on Initiative rolls, and it gives you the freedom to pick up Elven Accuracy and/or Medium Armor Master. (You can have both and 20 charisma by 16th level.) You could also take up proficiency in Athletics and the Shield Master feat if you choose Valor.
The intelligence and wisdom scores are, honestly, interchangeable. I just went that way because of their innate Perception, but if you want more intelligence skills then I say put the 10 there.
And it looks like your backgrounds ideas lean either towards Entertainer or Noble. I find entertainers more like carnies, and a noble would learn how to dance. Having a 4th instrument proficiency seems redundant to me. Even the 3 from bard is more than enough. And it never says you have to belong to a major house. Peerages are massive and lower-ranking, destitute noble families did exist historically. The likely still do. Either way, your bard sounds like a rebellious younger daughter. The only question is did she run away to join the circus?
Or is she a surface acolyte of a heretical god to her people?
Eilistraee is a good drow goddess who's focused on redeeming the drow.
She's very heretical to lolthite drow.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Start with the entertainer background. Starting stats, 8/16/14/10/10/16.
Take a rapier, shield (ask your DM if you can start with leather armor instead of chain mail, otherwise just take off your chain mail until you can buy some light or medium armor) and a dagger. You have good dexterity so you can also run with a longbow.
Maybe take Magic Initiate: Warlock or Sorcerer at level 4 so you can get a ranged cantrip and some utility spells (I quite like Eldritch Blast and Mage Hand).
I will have to check out the Twilight Cleric and see what that is about. I agree with you as well with the Bladesinger idea being similar but also quite different. My problem with going pure blade singer is that I fear once I get up a few levels I will end up just being a wizard. Which is what I played in the last campaign I was a part of.
When you have looked at creating this type of character, did you give any thought of doing a 1 level dip into hexblade and reskinning the weapon as one of Eilistraees singing longswords? I see the appeal since I would get proff. in long swords and being able to use your cha. bonus and therefore being able to do away with the strength aspect of character building. Would end up with a level 19 sword/valor bard and a level 1 hexblade.
Thanks for some great information and suggesting ability scores. I will also be looking into the feats you have suggested.
As for the background I have created one of my own from a Eilistraee follower packet I picked up on DMsguild. It was for 3.5 but I feel like I made it work pretty well.
Secret Moondancer
You are one of these drow, a Secret Moondancer. You felt the call of the Dark Dancer and chose to embrace what she stands for. You may have already fled to the surface, or be still living underground in a drow city. Perhaps you are a noble or priestess who fell out of Lolth's favor, only to be saved from your rivals by a Sword Dancer, finding the opportunity of a new beginning. Or you could be a commoner who grew weary of his or her life, and found solace and hope in the embrace of Eilistraee; or yet a slave or prisoner rescued by the followers of the goddess. Alternatively, you can choose to be one of her clerics, brave enough to risk your life to bring her light where few would dare. In either case, you live (or used to) in a drow city, dominated by Lolth, forced to act in utter secrecy and to hide your faith, in order to let it flourish.
Your safety is constantly on the line, endangering yourself and all you love, as to be caught is to be sentenced to death. You have to choose with extreme care when, where, and to whom you can bring knowledge of the Dark Maiden; and to be ever watchful of every detail around you and of those who might suspect of your heresy--a single misstep could bring to the worst. Despite all that, you still work to bring the hope that you have found to those who have not, and to teach children about Eilistraee, so that they may not have to grow without knowing what it is to be loved. Through your effort, the light of the Dark Maiden can shine even amidst the darkness of the Underdark.
With this I have given her the safe haven background feature and two skills, a tool proficiency and a language (undercommon).
I looked at both the entertainer and the noble backgrounds though.
As for how I picture her. She discovered something more than Lolth through dance while she was a youth in Menzoberranzan. But was unsure of what that exactly was. At some later point during a family war she is saved by an undercover agent of Eilistraee who helps her escape to the surface.
Hmmm, not exactly sure what a Dexadin is? Care to elaborate more on how you see this build fitting into the backstory/theme that I am going for?
Dexadin is a Paladin built focusing on dexterity rather than strength. Its downside is you can't multiclass or wear heavy armour, but you roll better on initiative and medium armour is only 1 point behind heavy in terms of overall AC. Use the dueling fighting style to maximize damage with your rapier.
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I hope I do not get too many eye rolls at my latest character idea. But I was hoping to get a bit of help in regards to fitting class combinations as well as if there is a better order to multi class. I can also mention that I have never multi classed before so there are things I probably do not understand.
Character concept/backstory: I am playing a female drow dancer from Menzoberranzan. She is the 3rd daughter of a very minor noble family. Through her love for dance she feels the presence of Eilistraee and while she might not understand the concept right away of another drow goddess, this presence allows her to find love and joy through dancing. Rising to become one of the best dancers in Menzoberranzan, she is able to put off joining Arach-Tinilith for quite a few years. Eventually her mother forces her to join to help prepare for a house war (thinking long-term). During the first few years here she comes has to put her dancing on pause but at the same time comes into contact with an undercover Eilistraee worshiper in the temple of Lolth. At some point over the next few years a group of houses have banded together to take out her family. While out scouting with a larger group from the academies she is attacked, but escapes and is rescued by the undercover agent mentioned above. This agent is able to help her return to Menzoberranzan, hide her and eventually get her through one of Eilistraees secret portals that are located in the city. From there she is sent to the Promenade (the main temple of Eilistraee which is located in Skullport). She spends years dancing, working for the goddess in the temple, being rehabilitated from the mental damage that has been caused by living in Menzoberranzan, and eventually scouting in the under dark to help other drow escape from Menzoberranzan.
Now (when I actually start playing the character), she has left the Promenade to take part in The Run, a ritual where followers of Eilistraee journey across the surface, relying on their skills and kindness to not be killed for being a drow. While also helping those in need and to show other races that drow can be good. This is her first time to the surface and our game began with her waiting and preparing for the first full moon where she could finally dance in moonlight for Eilistraee. Unknown to her others had heard her music and song, and come to see what it could be.
Mechanics:
I began playing as a bard since this is the main entertainer class and my character is first and foremost a dancer. At the moment and after reading a lot about the different subclasses I am torn. According to the guides I have read most pure bards tend to end up relying mostly on their magical skills in combat. I on the other hand would love for her to follow in the footsteps of Eilistraee teachings and become a longsword wielding dancing warrior... but I am not exactly sure how to do this. As of right now I think the best thing might be to take a few levels in Paladin to get the martial aspect that I am looking for. But which subclass to pick? From what I have read, valor bard seems to be more defensive while swords bard is more offensive... and honestly I would prefer to be more offensive in fighting style. But then I wonder if there will be too much overlap in the fighting skills from taking paladin levels... that I should just take the lore bard subclass.
I also wonder if it is better to start out as a bard and then pick up paladin levels or the other way around? And at which point does it make most sense to actually do this?
Edit: if there are other classes/subclasses out there that you think might be able to give me the feel that I am going for then I would be more than happy to hear about them. I just read over swashbuckler and feel like that could be a good option. But it would also potentially be more of an investment compared to paladin. Any thoughts?
Any suggestions or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. :D
Entertainer is a background, not a class. ;-)
Go swords if you want a pure bard. Dip hexblade if you want less MAD using the longswords. The mobility swords gives fits well with the dancer concept and that college is pretty much the least spell castery (cannot use flourishes with spell actions) bard option.
Paladin is tough since you need 13 str.
If you plan on using a long sword you will want to use strength anyway. Unless you can get a sunblade.
Dancing around I vision someone in light armor so dex is needed as well.
Con should be at least a 14 to be in the fray.
You don't need 20 Cha but inspiration will be a tight resource until you get them back on short rests.
If you want to focus melee I would go fighter or paladin 6 and lore bard 14. Grab haste at bard 6. This takes awhile to get both extra attack and short rest inspiration dice.
Or you can go sword bard 16 to 18 with paladin 2 or fighter 2 to 4.
Of course entertainer is a background. :P But I meant that seeing as she has a background as a dancer, then it makes a lot of sense to be a bard. ;)
As for dipping into hex blade, I just feel like the idea of going warlock doesn't fit with the purity of the character and her love for dance and Eilistraee. But I totally agree that it is a great option otherwise.
I hate the flavour of a hexblade dip as well.
Battlemaster can be a good option picking things like riposte and parry to go with defensive flourish.
Totally agree, and battle master seems like a very good choice as well. So many options to what you can do. But if I were to go lowest levels of fighter/Paladin possible. Would you do that first or go with some bard levels first?
Fighter or paladin gives better save proficiencies. Take them first if that's splash you want.
It depends on how high you are going in paladin or fighter.
You don't want to out off extra attack forever.
I'd go fighter 1 and then bard 6 if doing swords.
Maybe paladin 2 and then bard 6 as well.
If you want fighter or paladin 6 then I may go with them straight with a dip in bard for flavour and switch to bard afterwards at level 7.
Hmm, I honestly do not know how far I would want to go with them. I just really like the feel of bards... I just want a bit more hit behind their punch.
Will be playing around with different combinations to see if there is something that I like. :D
I'd start fighter 1 with entertainer. This gives a fighting style and con saves.
I'd then go to bard 6 for extra attack. Dipping back into fighter as needed.
You could do the same starting with 2 pal and then into bard.
Dip back whenever you feel like it. I took fighter 2 after bard 6 for action surge.
Planned on taking fighter 3 after but I took a level into sorcerer because of story reasons.
Honestly I'd probably go swords bard. I'm definitely going to dip a level of hexblade, even though I dislike it. Bard and longsword just do /not/ go together well. Fluff the dip as a pact with one of Eilistraee's lost https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Singing_sword and you're called to locate and wield it.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
That is a great idea... and actually one I have thought about a bit. :D It would also give her a lot more purpose in her explorations.
Will seriously have to think about this one. :D
I've thought a lot about how to create a worshipper of Eilistraee in 5e, and to be honest, there's no perfect fit.
My best takes so far are Bard (Sword or Valor), with a possible MC of some levels of Paladin if you want some smiting and potential religious aspects (Oath of Ancients seems fitting); Bladesinger, whose extra skills mimic much of the Bardic nature (performance, dancing, etc.), although Eilistraee's followers were traditionally more Divine than Arcane; and lastly you can focus more on the Divine nature than melee with a Twilight Cleric (UA material, but hopefully canon soon with Tasha's).
Honestly, though, my favourite of the three is probably a Bard X / Paladin 2 or 3 using a longsword with two hands to emulate the bastard sword is a good setup, unless you can somehow convince your DM to get you a finesse-able longsword. STR build is tricky here, but if you want to be accurate, that was her weapon of choice traditionally. Sword works best here for damage output and dancing around a battlefield, although Valor later in life becomes a true gish with the cast + slash option. Your choice.
If you're sticking to the PHB, then College of Valor. If not, then College of Swords. And I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest some ability scores...
12 str, 15 dex, 14 con, 8 int, 10 wis, and 16 cha (Assuming you don't shuffle things around using Tasha's or the new DDAL rules)
The higher-than-normal strength because either way you gain proficiency with medium armor and you'll probably want it. The 15 dex is to help break ties on Initiative rolls, and it gives you the freedom to pick up Elven Accuracy and/or Medium Armor Master. (You can have both and 20 charisma by 16th level.) You could also take up proficiency in Athletics and the Shield Master feat if you choose Valor.
The intelligence and wisdom scores are, honestly, interchangeable. I just went that way because of their innate Perception, but if you want more intelligence skills then I say put the 10 there.
And it looks like your backgrounds ideas lean either towards Entertainer or Noble. I find entertainers more like carnies, and a noble would learn how to dance. Having a 4th instrument proficiency seems redundant to me. Even the 3 from bard is more than enough. And it never says you have to belong to a major house. Peerages are massive and lower-ranking, destitute noble families did exist historically. The likely still do. Either way, your bard sounds like a rebellious younger daughter. The only question is did she run away to join the circus?
Or is she a surface acolyte of a heretical god to her people?
Eilistraee is a good drow goddess who's focused on redeeming the drow.
She's very heretical to lolthite drow.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Another possibility is a single class Dexadin.
Start with the entertainer background. Starting stats, 8/16/14/10/10/16.
Take a rapier, shield (ask your DM if you can start with leather armor instead of chain mail, otherwise just take off your chain mail until you can buy some light or medium armor) and a dagger. You have good dexterity so you can also run with a longbow.
Maybe take Magic Initiate: Warlock or Sorcerer at level 4 so you can get a ranged cantrip and some utility spells (I quite like Eldritch Blast and Mage Hand).
Proficiencies: Perception, Acrobatics, Performance, Intimidation, Persuasion, Disguise Kit, Instrument (Lute?).
Oath of the Ancients is (mechanically) my favorite Oath, but Devotion gives you a magic sword and Vengeance gives you Haste on your spell list.
Thanks for some great feedback! :D
I will have to check out the Twilight Cleric and see what that is about. I agree with you as well with the Bladesinger idea being similar but also quite different. My problem with going pure blade singer is that I fear once I get up a few levels I will end up just being a wizard. Which is what I played in the last campaign I was a part of.
When you have looked at creating this type of character, did you give any thought of doing a 1 level dip into hexblade and reskinning the weapon as one of Eilistraees singing longswords? I see the appeal since I would get proff. in long swords and being able to use your cha. bonus and therefore being able to do away with the strength aspect of character building. Would end up with a level 19 sword/valor bard and a level 1 hexblade.
Thanks for some great information and suggesting ability scores. I will also be looking into the feats you have suggested.
As for the background I have created one of my own from a Eilistraee follower packet I picked up on DMsguild. It was for 3.5 but I feel like I made it work pretty well.
Hmmm, not exactly sure what a Dexadin is? Care to elaborate more on how you see this build fitting into the backstory/theme that I am going for?
Dexadin is a Paladin built focusing on dexterity rather than strength. Its downside is you can't multiclass or wear heavy armour, but you roll better on initiative and medium armour is only 1 point behind heavy in terms of overall AC. Use the dueling fighting style to maximize damage with your rapier.