That is fairly open ended. Without knowing anything about you and your party, it would be difficult to give you much advice. I presume you are considering or preparing to play your first Bard.
I started my first Bard earlier this year. My first bit of advice is consider playing a Half-Elf. Their racial characteristics blend very well with building a good Bard. Second, consider taking a background other than performer or entertainer. I would consider Urchin so you can have proficiency with Thieves Tools. Next, consider which branch best suits you. If you have a small party (no more than three PCs) then you may wish to consider getting a subclass that will give you proficiency with Medium Armor because staying out of the fight might be very difficult. If you have many players in your party you have a little more going for you as a Lore Bard that does not get proficiency with medium armor.
My Bard is a Lord Bard. I hesitate to recommend it fully only because I haven't played any other type. I am having a great deal of fun playing my Bard so I do recommend it, but not knowing more about your situation I don't know if I recommend it for you.
As for the basic build, I recommend Prestidigitation and Vicious Mockery Cantrips; Bane, Dissonant Whispers and Healing Word for first level spells. I also selected Charm Person, but that may not be the best choice for you. On second level there are some good spells including Heat Metal (situational), Phantasmal Force, Silence and Invisibility, among others. If you take a Lord Bard you will probably want to grab Counterspell when you get magical Secrets at level 6.
As for skills, I recommend the Charisma based skills and the Dexterity based skills. The Dexterity route allows you to fulfil most of the role of a rogue except backstabbing. For Ability Scores, Charisma is definitely your top stat priority. With a Half-Elf you should be able to get 16 or better because you get +2 on your charisma score. This will give you three Bardic Inspiration to start and a Spell Casting DC=13. Dexterity is your second most priority so you can get damage for the dex based weapons you will have and getting good numbers on the dexterity based skills you use. I also think you will want a good Wisdom and Constitution Score. That pretty much leaves strength and intelligence as dump stats. On the whole I think Strength makes a better dump stat for a Charisma build but you may see it another way.
I hope you enjoy RP and have a lot of fun with it. Nothing beats a Bard as the Face of the party. At fourth level I would boost your Charisma score. As a Lord Bard, at fifth level you will love Cutting Words, a reaction that helps your party quite a bit.
Good luck and have fun.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Here is a completely different build. It is weapon-focus when come dealing damage. The spell slots are reserved for healing.
Race: half-Elf
Start with a rogue on lv1 then multiclass in bard
Multiclass split: Rogue 6 / Bard 14
The prioritize feature for multiclass: Rogue subclass at lv3, Extra Attack at Bard lv6
Bard Subclass: Swords for melee or Valor for melee/range
Rogue Subclass: up to personal style
Skills: 9 skills in total with 8 Expertise choice. If it is scot rogue, 11 skills in total with 10 Expertise. Jack of All Trades with other skills. There are 18 skills in total, so proficiency with at least half of them.
Magical Secrets can provide more useful ritual spells such as Find Familiar, Commune with Nature, Water Walk/Breathing, Detect Poison and Disease..etc
Combat style:
Swashbuckler + College of Swords:
Using in and out fighting style to deal damage and stay behind the front-tank.
Move-in and attack. The Sneak attack should pop. Use Cunning Action Dash to move behind the front line. The front-line should provide some protection when we stay behind them.
The damage output should be decent with Defensive Flourish, Sneak Attack and Extra attack. It is nowhere near the martial fighting class but it should be better than other healers.
Ability stats:
Str: most likely to be a dump
Dex: try to have +4 ~ +5
Con: not too low
Wis/Int: depending on the skill. If there are a good amount of Wis skills, try to have at least +1 in Wis. Same thing for Int.
Cha: try to have +4~+5
Feat suggestion:
Shield training (UA)/modaterly armoured for College of Swords
I don't take proficiency in skills where I have a higher ability score bonus because I still get jack-of-all-trades bonus. I take proficiency in skills lacking good ability score bonus to make up the difference a bit for more rounded skill bonuses over bigger bonuses.
Lore is my favorite. It's a caster / skills oriented choice. Valor is my second favorite as the most typical bard option. Swords is the other typical melee option and a bit more self sufficient in using inspiration. Glamour, whispers, and eloquence lean more towards social aspects.
The question I would ask is what do you want from the class? Bards are one of the most customizable classes to match various concepts or crack-fill for what the party is missing. They are also at their best using inspiration and spells to support the party.
I don't take proficiency in skills where I have a higher ability score bonus because I still get jack-of-all-trades bonus. I take proficiency in skills lacking good ability score bonus to make up the difference a bit for more rounded skill bonuses over bigger bonuses.
That is why I said nine skills and but didn't say which one. Take nine skills that the others don't have. For some examples: Take the Charisma skills if the team doesn't have a "face". Take the Wis skill if the team needs a wild guide and/or look-out. Take the Arcana and Investigation if the team doesn't have a Wizard.
The question I would ask is what do you want from the class? Bards are one of the most customizable classes to match various concepts or crack-fill for what the party is missing. They are also at their best using inspiration and spells to support the party.
Agree with this point. It is more about what does the OP wants to play. It shouldn't be what is a good build.
I post the melee build because I would like to play Bard that way and it is different than the second post.
In my current main campaign (just went on hiatus so we can play another) I've been playing as a Tiefling Bard and have had a blast with it.
He's College of Lore, and all about the skills (took a level in Rogue just to get more Expertise picks), and very much the "face" of my group, which I kind of did on purpose, as it forces me to speak as the character a lot more to come out of my normally very introverted shell (even among groups of friends). He's more con-artist than musician, so is very much invested in social skills like persuasion, deception etc. and has the Actor feat plus Enhance Ability and Hex (via Magic Initiative Warlock) to make him potentially unstoppable at these.
In combat he's about support through Bardic Inspiration, has Healing Word to get allies back from unconsciousness without losing the rest of the turn. I still use Dissonant Whispers a lot for damage, as forcing an enemy to use its reaction and move is a really good extra bonus, as it can mean attacks of opportunity for everyone next to it. I also have some fire spells through Magical Secrets and Magic Initiate. A lot of my magic is themed around the Tiefling ancestry, so fire and sinister where possible. Other than that I've got mainstays such as Disguise Self and Invisibility. I've also been enjoying the UA spell [Tooltip Not Found] as it lets me keep away from combat (my Bard is extra-squishy on purpose with a -1 to Constitution), and I just love the ability for my Bard to summon a Small spectral satyr that otherwise look identical to himself (or rather, what he himself thinks he looks like).
Overall, Bards are a really versatile class, and I don't think it has any bad sub-classes; College of Lore is ideal if you want to lean into the spell-casting more, College of Eloquence for inspiration and speech, College of Swords or College of Valor for more non-magical combat, College of Whispers if you want to go a bit Rogue without having to invest too much in multi-classing.
The main thing is to pick a theme that clicks with you and have fun with it; the Bard spell list has some definite limitations, but it's also got some great picks as well, and Magical Secrets can let you gain a couple of must-have spells here and there from other lists.
Thanks for all the advice! this has really helped. I personally want bard because I like the roleplaying aspects of bard. I think I'll go with a lore bard and the spells you all have reccomended!
In my current main campaign (just went on hiatus so we can play another) I've been playing as a Tiefling Bard and have had a blast with it.
He's College of Lore, and all about the skills (took a level in Rogue just to get more Expertise picks), and very much the "face" of my group, which I kind of did on purpose, as it forces me to speak as the character a lot more to come out of my normally very introverted shell (even among groups of friends). He's more con-artist than musician, so is very much invested in social skills like persuasion, deception etc. and has the Actor feat plus Enhance Ability and Hex (via Magic Initiative Warlock) to make him potentially unstoppable at these.
In combat he's about support through Bardic Inspiration, has Healing Word to get allies back from unconsciousness without losing the rest of the turn. I still use Dissonant Whispers a lot for damage, as forcing an enemy to use its reaction and move is a really good extra bonus, as it can mean attacks of opportunity for everyone next to it. I also have some fire spells through Magical Secrets and Magic Initiate. A lot of my magic is themed around the Tiefling ancestry, so fire and sinister where possible. Other than that I've got mainstays such as Disguise Self and Invisibility. I've also been enjoying the UA spell Summon Fey Spirit (UA) as it lets me keep away from combat (my Bard is extra-squishy on purpose with a -1 to Constitution), and I just love the ability for my Bard to summon a Small spectral satyr that otherwise look identical to himself (or rather, what he himself thinks he looks like).
Overall, Bards are a really versatile class, and I don't think it has any bad sub-classes; College of Lore is ideal if you want to lean into the spell-casting more, College of Eloquence for inspiration and speech, College of Swords or College of Valor for more non-magical combat, College of Whispers if you want to go a bit Rogue without having to invest too much in multi-classing.
The main thing is to pick a theme that clicks with you and have fun with it; the Bard spell list has some definite limitations, but it's also got some great picks as well, and Magical Secrets can let you gain a couple of must-have spells here and there from other lists.
Check with your DM about their interpretation on the Dissonant Whispers in regards to whether they view it as forced movement or not. If it's forced movement, then OAs are not allowed. If the DM rules that the character is choosing to move and the spell gives them the mechanics to do it now rather than on their turn, then OAs will be valid. The spell still has plenty of value if OAs aren't allowed, but being on the same page as your DM before informing your party to OA will save some hassle if it's not allowed.
Check with your DM about their interpretation on the Dissonant Whispers in regards to whether they view it as forced movement or not. If it's forced movement, then OAs are not allowed. If the DM rules that the character is choosing to move and the spell gives them the mechanics to do it now rather than on their turn, then OAs will be valid. The spell still has plenty of value if OAs aren't allowed, but being on the same page as your DM before informing your party to OA will save some hassle if it's not allowed.
I don't think this is a problem; under Opportunity Attacks the condition for whether it works is if the creature is using its own movement. So as long as it's using its walk/fly/swim/whatever speed to move it should count, but if it's being pushed or teleported it won't.
Dissonant Whispers forces the target to use its reaction to try to move "as far as its speed allows"; this does raise the interest occasion of if the target has no movement left, in which case I think it just loses its reaction, but that's still handy for preventing opportunity attacks in return.
Unless there's a separate definition for "forced movement" somewhere else?
Check with your DM about their interpretation on the Dissonant Whispers in regards to whether they view it as forced movement or not. If it's forced movement, then OAs are not allowed. If the DM rules that the character is choosing to move and the spell gives them the mechanics to do it now rather than on their turn, then OAs will be valid. The spell still has plenty of value if OAs aren't allowed, but being on the same page as your DM before informing your party to OA will save some hassle if it's not allowed.
I don't think this is a problem; under Opportunity Attacks the condition for whether it works is if the creature is using its own movement. So as long as it's using its walk/fly/swim/whatever speed to move it should count, but if it's being pushed or teleported it won't.
Dissonant Whispers forces the target to use its reaction to try to move "as far as its speed allows"; this does raise the interest occasion of if the target has no movement left, in which case I think it just loses its reaction, but that's still handy for preventing opportunity attacks in return.
Unless there's a separate definition for "forced movement" somewhere else?
All of those are valid points and part of why I said that people should check with their DM. It's an area that is gray adjacent if not gray. Verifying with your DM is always a good idea, and I was simply pointing this out. I'll use Booming Blade later to show why a DM might rule otherwise.
The movement aspect is an interesting thing to be discussed as well. Do you just keep track of the movement for every creature or just assume that the spell allows for movement regardless of movement used. Scout Rogues get a reaction that specifically gives up to half of your movement without regard to how much you moved (at least explicitly). Dissonant whispers is a little less explicit on the amount in that the amount of movement used could be part of that or it could just be its full movement. It does explicitly say that it uses its reaction, if available, but doesn't actually say anything about whether movement may have been used or not. Both are points of clarification for the DM so that expectations will match results on a more regular basis.
However, if you have a rogue sitting within 5 feet of the creature and the movement does provoke OAs, they'll be loving you since they get a chance to deal sneak attack damage again. Anyone casting Booming Blade will also love you, since that would also trigger its bonus damage, unless the DM rules differently for that than for Dissonant Whispers and OAs.
The wording should be in favor of OAs happening since you are using your reaction to move and that's one of the caveats listed:
You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction.
The wording for Booming Blade talks about willing movement while Dissonant Whispers says that the target must move on a failed save. This might be where the DM may consider the two to be similar and not allow the OAs. It could also just be a house ruling that the DM makes as well.
As I said before, it's still really good with out the OAs but better with them.
Edit: The loss of a reaction is also handy against spellcasters with Counterspell or other reaction spells that cause problems or other creatures with reaction options aside from OAs.
Recently it happened that my party was surrounded by foes and I was keeping them in the game with various spells and using Cutting Words (a reaction). Our Rogue was 1 on 1 with the Boss and I kept him in the fight by focusing on him with my C-W feature, but I didn't think that using D-W might give him a sneak attack if the Boss failed his save. Now of course, the boss may have come back and picked a target that is less attractive than our rogue to fight (like me!!) but for OA sneak attack damage, that might be worth the risk. As it was, we came out pretty good.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Dissonant whispers is a little less explicit on the amount in that the amount of movement used could be part of that or it could just be its full movement.
It's the full movement*:
must immediately use its reaction, if available, to move as far as its speed allows away from you.
Whatever other conditions it faces, it must move "as far as its speed allows", so as far as possible. The DM might of course rule against the use of limited use features or such that could boost its speed, but as long as it has movement leftover from its turn, it must use it to get as far as it can from you, avoiding obvious pitfalls. Of course if it doesn't have enough movement left, it won't trigger attacks of opportunity; unless you have some unusual positioning it's probably going to need at least 5 feet to do that. *Only caveat really is they're not forced to use excess movement if they physically can't get further from you, e.g- they're in a room and can't get out, they don't start running around in circles to use up what's left (though that'd be hilarious).
On which note, regarding triggering opportunity attacks (with or without Sneak Attack), Booming Blade, and so-on, I believe these were exactly what the spell was intended for; I'd be very unhappy with a DM that tried to rule otherwise when the wording is very clear. Bards are designed to be a support class, so spells that work well with others is absolutely on brand.
If you compare Dissonant Whispers to Burning Hands for example it does the same potential damage at 1st level but only to a single target. While Dissonant Whispers has a damage type and save that are less commonly resisted, the ability to hit two or more targets with Burning Hands makes it by far the better damage dealer, so the extra effect on Dissonant Whispers really is the primary feature you want to exploit.
It's the reason I still use the spell at higher levels; at low levels it does good damage, but at higher levels the damage falls off compared to what other casters will be using, and it's not great value to upcast it anyway, however the ability to trigger a bunch of attacks of opportunity and/or deny a target its reaction is always handy.
Anyway, this is all a bit rules discussion-y; Dissonant Whispers is great, I love it on my bard, though it's not crucial to Bard builds as there are a few other options depending whether you want to build a more comical or musical bard. For example, I originally considered Sleep but loved how Dissonant Whispers fit the "infernal ancestry" angle I was going for.
Dissonant whispers is a little less explicit on the amount in that the amount of movement used could be part of that or it could just be its full movement.
It's the full movement*:
must immediately use its reaction, if available, to move as far as its speed allows away from you.
Whatever other conditions it faces, it must move "as far as its speed allows", so as far as possible. The DM might of course rule against the use of limited use features or such that could boost its speed, but as long as it has movement leftover from its turn, it must use it to get as far as it can from you, avoiding obvious pitfalls. Of course if it doesn't have enough movement left, it won't trigger attacks of opportunity; unless you have some unusual positioning it's probably going to need at least 5 feet to do that. *Only caveat really is they're not forced to use excess movement if they physically can't get further from you, e.g- they're in a room and can't get out, they don't start running around in circles to use up what's left (though that'd be hilarious).
I wasn't clear but this was what I was trying to say. Basically, if a typical character uses 15 of it's 30 feet of movement, does Dissonant Whispers only force it to use the remaining 15 or the full 30. I could see arguments going both way. The full 30 would be less accounting for everyone, but the remaining 15 might be a truer way to deal with it. Having the discussion with the DM allows you to have an idea about what to expect as well as potentially broach topics that they haven't had to deal with before. This allows them to look over the material at their leisure instead of trying to do it on the spot or simply making a ruling on the spot which may not favor the party in comparison to the actual rules, ie confusing the OA rules with the Booming Blade ones. It also allows the DM to decide which movement would be needed in the example given above (15 or 30) and allows them to realize that they need to keep track of each NPCs movement in case Dissonant Whispers is cast on them if they decide against the full 30.
I wasn't clear but this was what I was trying to say. Basically, if a typical character uses 15 of it's 30 feet of movement, does Dissonant Whispers only force it to use the remaining 15 or the full 30. I could see arguments going both way. The full 30 would be less accounting for everyone, but the remaining 15 might be a truer way to deal with it. Having the discussion with the DM allows you to have an idea about what to expect as well as potentially broach topics that they haven't had to deal with before. This allows them to look over the material at their leisure instead of trying to do it on the spot or simply making a ruling on the spot which may not favor the party in comparison to the actual rules, ie confusing the OA rules with the Booming Blade ones. It also allows the DM to decide which movement would be needed in the example given above (15 or 30) and allows them to realize that they need to keep track of each NPCs movement in case Dissonant Whispers is cast on them if they decide against the full 30.
Oh right, I think it'd be the 15 in that case; the basic rules for Speed state that a creature's speed(s) are how far they can travel normally in a single round, so all normal movement (forced or otherwise) adds up to that total. Interestingly with it being per round it means if your initiative is ahead of your target's you could potentially rob them of their movement for the entire round, but I expect most DM's would just assume movement resets on creature turn, as that'd be a bit of a weird exploit.
I think most DMs would be fine with just fudging it; if they or the players remember an enemy was 20 feet away, and the creature has a movement of 30 then it should have 10 left and so-on. Most of the time I don't use Dissonant Whispers if I'm not sure if a target has movement left, as if it might be less than 5 feet then unless robbing it of a reaction is your goal it might be a waste.
You should definitely always tell your DM what spells you're taking so they've got some idea what you can do; a session zero is great for discussing character builds and putting joint backstories together (or coming up with ideas if you're stuck), definitely recommended for every campaign.
Bard is a great class to play because on two level-ups, they get access to four spells on any other class's spell list (six times if you're a Lore Bard).
This can allow you the ability to specialize at several different points in the campaign to adjust how you want to play the character, or if the party needs help in a few different aspects (for example, if you don't have anyone in the party capable of performing Counterspell, it's one you're going to want to pick up.)
Bards from the beginning have been jacks of all trades. They're not as skill monkey as a Rogue, but almost. They're can't select their spells like Druids, Clerics, and Wizards, but they do have the largest selection of spells available to a non-selection spellcaster. They're not melee experts, but at least Sword and Valor can contribute, even if they're not ideal frontline fighters.
Remember, page 125 in the Player's Handbook, you can customize your background with skill, tool, and language proficiencies that are already used in backgrounds. I have to specify "used" because you can take herbalism kit proficiency because the Hermit has it, but you can't take poisoner's kit, because no background has it. You can swap skill proficiencies for skill proficiencies, tool/language proficiencies for tool/language proficiencies, and background feature for background feature. So really the only important consideration is the equipment your background lets you start with. Pick the equipment you like, pick the background feature you like, then pick the tool/language and skill proficiencies you like.
Whatever background I take, I swap out one of the tool/language proficiencies for Thieves' Tools, since really that's the only tool that gets regularly used.
So the thing you have to remember about the Bard class is that it is mechanically a full caster with the same spell slot progression as a Wizard, just with a focus on skills and party support rather than ultimate spell versatility. The way to get all the 'juice' out of that is to double down on being a caster, which is why the College of Lore is widely regarded as the most 'optimal' of the Bard Colleges. Every other College is going to be getting you breadth of ability rather than sheer power. So I guess which way you go depends on whether you want to become better at your strong points or shore up what might be weak points.
Just so you know what the base class is built to do, it's cast spells mainly focusing on support and control. From there you can think about how you want to build your Bard. Do you want to double down on the Bard's strong points and become an almost unrivaled support controller and party social fu master? Or do you want to add in a dash of martial prowess? Or did you want to become a sage and knowledge expert in some ways better than a wizard can? The bard is very flexible, but it has certain things it does well and others that it only does so so. Without multiclassing a bard will never be a full martial class in either weapon damage or ability to withstand blows. At most it can be a half martial class. But in terms of being skilled, knowledgeable, or even an effective healer, I think Bards can give other classes a run for their money.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
So as an example of a character build that doubles down on what the class is good with, I threw together a character. They are a Half Elf because of the Charisma focus and the extra skills and this character is built to have a good spellcasting stat while also having a good number of knowledge proficiencies. I chose the Sage background for even more skill proficiencies and languages, it's good to be able to understand what the various peoples you'll encounter are saying. They wear light armor and generally stay at range in combat, using their Vicious Mockery to help prevent the enemy from hitting their party mates and Earth Tremor if they get too close to knock them down, which also helps melee party mates gain Advantage. This is not a high damage dealing build, but just about everything they do helps the party. When they level up they will choose the College of Lore and continue in the track of being skilled and choosing versatile spells that many things at once.
Bard is a great class to play because on two level-ups, they get access to four spells on any other class's spell list (six times if you're a Lore Bard).
This can allow you the ability to specialize at several different points in the campaign to adjust how you want to play the character, or if the party needs help in a few different aspects (for example, if you don't have anyone in the party capable of performing Counterspell, it's one you're going to want to pick up.)
Just correcting some numbers here. Bards get Magical Secrets three times (four for College of Lore). Each time, they get two spells -- ultimately getting to choose six spells (or eight for College of Lore).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello all, this is my first post and I am wondering if anybody has tips for a really good bard build without homebrew?
That is fairly open ended. Without knowing anything about you and your party, it would be difficult to give you much advice. I presume you are considering or preparing to play your first Bard.
I started my first Bard earlier this year. My first bit of advice is consider playing a Half-Elf. Their racial characteristics blend very well with building a good Bard. Second, consider taking a background other than performer or entertainer. I would consider Urchin so you can have proficiency with Thieves Tools. Next, consider which branch best suits you. If you have a small party (no more than three PCs) then you may wish to consider getting a subclass that will give you proficiency with Medium Armor because staying out of the fight might be very difficult. If you have many players in your party you have a little more going for you as a Lore Bard that does not get proficiency with medium armor.
My Bard is a Lord Bard. I hesitate to recommend it fully only because I haven't played any other type. I am having a great deal of fun playing my Bard so I do recommend it, but not knowing more about your situation I don't know if I recommend it for you.
As for the basic build, I recommend Prestidigitation and Vicious Mockery Cantrips; Bane, Dissonant Whispers and Healing Word for first level spells. I also selected Charm Person, but that may not be the best choice for you. On second level there are some good spells including Heat Metal (situational), Phantasmal Force, Silence and Invisibility, among others. If you take a Lord Bard you will probably want to grab Counterspell when you get magical Secrets at level 6.
As for skills, I recommend the Charisma based skills and the Dexterity based skills. The Dexterity route allows you to fulfil most of the role of a rogue except backstabbing. For Ability Scores, Charisma is definitely your top stat priority. With a Half-Elf you should be able to get 16 or better because you get +2 on your charisma score. This will give you three Bardic Inspiration to start and a Spell Casting DC=13. Dexterity is your second most priority so you can get damage for the dex based weapons you will have and getting good numbers on the dexterity based skills you use. I also think you will want a good Wisdom and Constitution Score. That pretty much leaves strength and intelligence as dump stats. On the whole I think Strength makes a better dump stat for a Charisma build but you may see it another way.
I hope you enjoy RP and have a lot of fun with it. Nothing beats a Bard as the Face of the party. At fourth level I would boost your Charisma score. As a Lord Bard, at fifth level you will love Cutting Words, a reaction that helps your party quite a bit.
Good luck and have fun.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Here is a completely different build. It is weapon-focus when come dealing damage. The spell slots are reserved for healing.
Race: half-Elf
Start with a rogue on lv1 then multiclass in bard
Multiclass split: Rogue 6 / Bard 14
The prioritize feature for multiclass: Rogue subclass at lv3, Extra Attack at Bard lv6
Bard Subclass: Swords for melee or Valor for melee/range
Rogue Subclass: up to personal style
Skills: 9 skills in total with 8 Expertise choice. If it is scot rogue, 11 skills in total with 10 Expertise. Jack of All Trades with other skills. There are 18 skills in total, so proficiency with at least half of them.
Tool skills: 1 musical instrument, 1 Thieves’ tools, 0~2 additional tools
language skills: Common, Elvish, 1~3 additional language
Spell choice and slots
Spell slots reserved for healing and some situational use. Use a weapon for normal combat
Spell:
Healing: Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Greater Restoration, Mass Cure Wounds
utility (suggestion/example): Disguise Self, Feather Fall, Plant Growth, Tongues, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Mass Suggestion
Ritual Casting: Since spell slots are reserved for healing and conditional use, ritual casting can bring out more utility.
Suggestion: Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Identify, Speak with Animals, Tiny Hut,
Magical Secrets can provide more useful ritual spells such as Find Familiar, Commune with Nature, Water Walk/Breathing, Detect Poison and Disease..etc
Combat style:
Swashbuckler + College of Swords:
Using in and out fighting style to deal damage and stay behind the front-tank.
Move-in and attack. The Sneak attack should pop. Use Cunning Action Dash to move behind the front line. The front-line should provide some protection when we stay behind them.
The damage output should be decent with Defensive Flourish, Sneak Attack and Extra attack. It is nowhere near the martial fighting class but it should be better than other healers.
Ability stats:
Str: most likely to be a dump
Dex: try to have +4 ~ +5
Con: not too low
Wis/Int: depending on the skill. If there are a good amount of Wis skills, try to have at least +1 in Wis. Same thing for Int.
Cha: try to have +4~+5
Feat suggestion:
Shield training (UA)/modaterly armoured for College of Swords
Fighting Initiate (UA) for College of Valor
Sharpshooter for range College of Valor
I don't take proficiency in skills where I have a higher ability score bonus because I still get jack-of-all-trades bonus. I take proficiency in skills lacking good ability score bonus to make up the difference a bit for more rounded skill bonuses over bigger bonuses.
Lore is my favorite. It's a caster / skills oriented choice. Valor is my second favorite as the most typical bard option. Swords is the other typical melee option and a bit more self sufficient in using inspiration. Glamour, whispers, and eloquence lean more towards social aspects.
The question I would ask is what do you want from the class? Bards are one of the most customizable classes to match various concepts or crack-fill for what the party is missing. They are also at their best using inspiration and spells to support the party.
That is why I said nine skills and but didn't say which one. Take nine skills that the others don't have. For some examples: Take the Charisma skills if the team doesn't have a "face". Take the Wis skill if the team needs a wild guide and/or look-out. Take the Arcana and Investigation if the team doesn't have a Wizard.
Agree with this point. It is more about what does the OP wants to play. It shouldn't be what is a good build.
I post the melee build because I would like to play Bard that way and it is different than the second post.
In my current main campaign (just went on hiatus so we can play another) I've been playing as a Tiefling Bard and have had a blast with it.
He's College of Lore, and all about the skills (took a level in Rogue just to get more Expertise picks), and very much the "face" of my group, which I kind of did on purpose, as it forces me to speak as the character a lot more to come out of my normally very introverted shell (even among groups of friends). He's more con-artist than musician, so is very much invested in social skills like persuasion, deception etc. and has the Actor feat plus Enhance Ability and Hex (via Magic Initiative Warlock) to make him potentially unstoppable at these.
In combat he's about support through Bardic Inspiration, has Healing Word to get allies back from unconsciousness without losing the rest of the turn. I still use Dissonant Whispers a lot for damage, as forcing an enemy to use its reaction and move is a really good extra bonus, as it can mean attacks of opportunity for everyone next to it. I also have some fire spells through Magical Secrets and Magic Initiate. A lot of my magic is themed around the Tiefling ancestry, so fire and sinister where possible. Other than that I've got mainstays such as Disguise Self and Invisibility. I've also been enjoying the UA spell [Tooltip Not Found] as it lets me keep away from combat (my Bard is extra-squishy on purpose with a -1 to Constitution), and I just love the ability for my Bard to summon a Small spectral satyr that otherwise look identical to himself (or rather, what he himself thinks he looks like).
Overall, Bards are a really versatile class, and I don't think it has any bad sub-classes; College of Lore is ideal if you want to lean into the spell-casting more, College of Eloquence for inspiration and speech, College of Swords or College of Valor for more non-magical combat, College of Whispers if you want to go a bit Rogue without having to invest too much in multi-classing.
The main thing is to pick a theme that clicks with you and have fun with it; the Bard spell list has some definite limitations, but it's also got some great picks as well, and Magical Secrets can let you gain a couple of must-have spells here and there from other lists.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
Thanks for all the advice! this has really helped. I personally want bard because I like the roleplaying aspects of bard. I think I'll go with a lore bard and the spells you all have reccomended!
Check with your DM about their interpretation on the Dissonant Whispers in regards to whether they view it as forced movement or not. If it's forced movement, then OAs are not allowed. If the DM rules that the character is choosing to move and the spell gives them the mechanics to do it now rather than on their turn, then OAs will be valid. The spell still has plenty of value if OAs aren't allowed, but being on the same page as your DM before informing your party to OA will save some hassle if it's not allowed.
I don't think this is a problem; under Opportunity Attacks the condition for whether it works is if the creature is using its own movement. So as long as it's using its walk/fly/swim/whatever speed to move it should count, but if it's being pushed or teleported it won't.
Dissonant Whispers forces the target to use its reaction to try to move "as far as its speed allows"; this does raise the interest occasion of if the target has no movement left, in which case I think it just loses its reaction, but that's still handy for preventing opportunity attacks in return.
Unless there's a separate definition for "forced movement" somewhere else?
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
All of those are valid points and part of why I said that people should check with their DM. It's an area that is gray adjacent if not gray. Verifying with your DM is always a good idea, and I was simply pointing this out. I'll use Booming Blade later to show why a DM might rule otherwise.
The movement aspect is an interesting thing to be discussed as well. Do you just keep track of the movement for every creature or just assume that the spell allows for movement regardless of movement used. Scout Rogues get a reaction that specifically gives up to half of your movement without regard to how much you moved (at least explicitly). Dissonant whispers is a little less explicit on the amount in that the amount of movement used could be part of that or it could just be its full movement. It does explicitly say that it uses its reaction, if available, but doesn't actually say anything about whether movement may have been used or not. Both are points of clarification for the DM so that expectations will match results on a more regular basis.
However, if you have a rogue sitting within 5 feet of the creature and the movement does provoke OAs, they'll be loving you since they get a chance to deal sneak attack damage again. Anyone casting Booming Blade will also love you, since that would also trigger its bonus damage, unless the DM rules differently for that than for Dissonant Whispers and OAs.
The wording should be in favor of OAs happening since you are using your reaction to move and that's one of the caveats listed:
You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction.
The wording for Booming Blade talks about willing movement while Dissonant Whispers says that the target must move on a failed save. This might be where the DM may consider the two to be similar and not allow the OAs. It could also just be a house ruling that the DM makes as well.
As I said before, it's still really good with out the OAs but better with them.
Edit: The loss of a reaction is also handy against spellcasters with Counterspell or other reaction spells that cause problems or other creatures with reaction options aside from OAs.
Whoa! I didn't think about that before.
Recently it happened that my party was surrounded by foes and I was keeping them in the game with various spells and using Cutting Words (a reaction). Our Rogue was 1 on 1 with the Boss and I kept him in the fight by focusing on him with my C-W feature, but I didn't think that using D-W might give him a sneak attack if the Boss failed his save. Now of course, the boss may have come back and picked a target that is less attractive than our rogue to fight (like me!!) but for OA sneak attack damage, that might be worth the risk. As it was, we came out pretty good.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
It's the full movement*:
Whatever other conditions it faces, it must move "as far as its speed allows", so as far as possible. The DM might of course rule against the use of limited use features or such that could boost its speed, but as long as it has movement leftover from its turn, it must use it to get as far as it can from you, avoiding obvious pitfalls. Of course if it doesn't have enough movement left, it won't trigger attacks of opportunity; unless you have some unusual positioning it's probably going to need at least 5 feet to do that. *Only caveat really is they're not forced to use excess movement if they physically can't get further from you, e.g- they're in a room and can't get out, they don't start running around in circles to use up what's left (though that'd be hilarious).
On which note, regarding triggering opportunity attacks (with or without Sneak Attack), Booming Blade, and so-on, I believe these were exactly what the spell was intended for; I'd be very unhappy with a DM that tried to rule otherwise when the wording is very clear. Bards are designed to be a support class, so spells that work well with others is absolutely on brand.
If you compare Dissonant Whispers to Burning Hands for example it does the same potential damage at 1st level but only to a single target. While Dissonant Whispers has a damage type and save that are less commonly resisted, the ability to hit two or more targets with Burning Hands makes it by far the better damage dealer, so the extra effect on Dissonant Whispers really is the primary feature you want to exploit.
It's the reason I still use the spell at higher levels; at low levels it does good damage, but at higher levels the damage falls off compared to what other casters will be using, and it's not great value to upcast it anyway, however the ability to trigger a bunch of attacks of opportunity and/or deny a target its reaction is always handy.
Anyway, this is all a bit rules discussion-y; Dissonant Whispers is great, I love it on my bard, though it's not crucial to Bard builds as there are a few other options depending whether you want to build a more comical or musical bard. For example, I originally considered Sleep but loved how Dissonant Whispers fit the "infernal ancestry" angle I was going for.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
I wasn't clear but this was what I was trying to say. Basically, if a typical character uses 15 of it's 30 feet of movement, does Dissonant Whispers only force it to use the remaining 15 or the full 30. I could see arguments going both way. The full 30 would be less accounting for everyone, but the remaining 15 might be a truer way to deal with it. Having the discussion with the DM allows you to have an idea about what to expect as well as potentially broach topics that they haven't had to deal with before. This allows them to look over the material at their leisure instead of trying to do it on the spot or simply making a ruling on the spot which may not favor the party in comparison to the actual rules, ie confusing the OA rules with the Booming Blade ones. It also allows the DM to decide which movement would be needed in the example given above (15 or 30) and allows them to realize that they need to keep track of each NPCs movement in case Dissonant Whispers is cast on them if they decide against the full 30.
Oh right, I think it'd be the 15 in that case; the basic rules for Speed state that a creature's speed(s) are how far they can travel normally in a single round, so all normal movement (forced or otherwise) adds up to that total. Interestingly with it being per round it means if your initiative is ahead of your target's you could potentially rob them of their movement for the entire round, but I expect most DM's would just assume movement resets on creature turn, as that'd be a bit of a weird exploit.
I think most DMs would be fine with just fudging it; if they or the players remember an enemy was 20 feet away, and the creature has a movement of 30 then it should have 10 left and so-on. Most of the time I don't use Dissonant Whispers if I'm not sure if a target has movement left, as if it might be less than 5 feet then unless robbing it of a reaction is your goal it might be a waste.
You should definitely always tell your DM what spells you're taking so they've got some idea what you can do; a session zero is great for discussing character builds and putting joint backstories together (or coming up with ideas if you're stuck), definitely recommended for every campaign.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
Bard is a great class to play because on two level-ups, they get access to four spells on any other class's spell list (six times if you're a Lore Bard).
This can allow you the ability to specialize at several different points in the campaign to adjust how you want to play the character, or if the party needs help in a few different aspects (for example, if you don't have anyone in the party capable of performing Counterspell, it's one you're going to want to pick up.)
Bards from the beginning have been jacks of all trades. They're not as skill monkey as a Rogue, but almost. They're can't select their spells like Druids, Clerics, and Wizards, but they do have the largest selection of spells available to a non-selection spellcaster. They're not melee experts, but at least Sword and Valor can contribute, even if they're not ideal frontline fighters.
Remember, page 125 in the Player's Handbook, you can customize your background with skill, tool, and language proficiencies that are already used in backgrounds. I have to specify "used" because you can take herbalism kit proficiency because the Hermit has it, but you can't take poisoner's kit, because no background has it. You can swap skill proficiencies for skill proficiencies, tool/language proficiencies for tool/language proficiencies, and background feature for background feature. So really the only important consideration is the equipment your background lets you start with. Pick the equipment you like, pick the background feature you like, then pick the tool/language and skill proficiencies you like.
Whatever background I take, I swap out one of the tool/language proficiencies for Thieves' Tools, since really that's the only tool that gets regularly used.
I had some advice that I gave to someone before, where was it?
Just so you know what the base class is built to do, it's cast spells mainly focusing on support and control. From there you can think about how you want to build your Bard. Do you want to double down on the Bard's strong points and become an almost unrivaled support controller and party social fu master? Or do you want to add in a dash of martial prowess? Or did you want to become a sage and knowledge expert in some ways better than a wizard can? The bard is very flexible, but it has certain things it does well and others that it only does so so. Without multiclassing a bard will never be a full martial class in either weapon damage or ability to withstand blows. At most it can be a half martial class. But in terms of being skilled, knowledgeable, or even an effective healer, I think Bards can give other classes a run for their money.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
So as an example of a character build that doubles down on what the class is good with, I threw together a character. They are a Half Elf because of the Charisma focus and the extra skills and this character is built to have a good spellcasting stat while also having a good number of knowledge proficiencies. I chose the Sage background for even more skill proficiencies and languages, it's good to be able to understand what the various peoples you'll encounter are saying. They wear light armor and generally stay at range in combat, using their Vicious Mockery to help prevent the enemy from hitting their party mates and Earth Tremor if they get too close to knock them down, which also helps melee party mates gain Advantage. This is not a high damage dealing build, but just about everything they do helps the party. When they level up they will choose the College of Lore and continue in the track of being skilled and choosing versatile spells that many things at once.
https://ddb.ac/characters/37533680/aAC8YY
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Just correcting some numbers here. Bards get Magical Secrets three times (four for College of Lore). Each time, they get two spells -- ultimately getting to choose six spells (or eight for College of Lore).