I'm playing a Lore Bard, and I'm picking up my first set of magical secrets.
I'm curious what people think of having Find Familiar as a bard. It's generally a useful spell, though in this case it's competing with everything else I could take. It also doesn't seem like the Bard spell list has a lot of touch-range spells that would be useful for that element of the familiar.
Any thoughts? Has anyone found it to be useful, or did it end up being a wasted opportunity for you?
Its honestly going to depend on what you and your party needs. Being able to use the Help action is less useful on a Bard than, say, a warlock or a wizard casting a cantrip. Being able to scout is handy, and bards do potentially learn Invisibility, but does your group need a familiar to scout with? Do you want an owl to carry messages back and forth? An extra pair of eyes while just being around? A cat or dog that can Help you during social situations to give you advantage on that Charisma check, by being distracting and cute?
The fundamental question at this point is this - what use would you have for the familiar if you got it?
A familiar is good for some scouting and also nice to add some flavor to your party. My biggest question is, did you take counter spell? IMO, that is a must have from the magical secrets. Amazing, party saving, brilliant spell.
The fundamental question at this point is this - what use would you have for the familiar if you got it?
Largely for scouting purposes. We're in a mega dungeon, and I thought the familiar would be better suited to exploring unseen rooms and corridors than any of us poking our heads around the corners. I guess it could deliver healing spells in a pinch.
A familiar is good for some scouting and also nice to add some flavor to your party. My biggest question is, did you take counter spell? IMO, that is a must have from the magical secrets. Amazing, party saving, brilliant spell.
Ah, yes, Counterspell is indeed amazing, though kind of boring (all things being equal.) Our wizard already has it, so it didn't seem like a priority. (Yet he didn't take Find Familiar. Go figure.)
I intend to pick up Counterspell and Thunderstep when I get Magical secrets. I will use Thunderstep to get our Rogue out of trouble every once in a while. He often gets himself in over his head.
Find Familiar is a great spell for first level, but I hate to burn it on a potentially available 3rd level spell. I know you don't cast it at 3rd level, but to give away one of your two magical secrets spells that you gain at 6th level by selecting a first level spell, well, I'd have to have a huge RP reason to do this. Maybe, but I don't see it.
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I use an owl on my tome pact warlock, and I love it. That said, I wouldn't burn Magical Secrets on it. I'd pick up Find Familiar via a feat instead.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If your party lacks a familiar and you want one, then sure, go for it. You are basically trading a spell known for a class feature, not a bad deal i'd say. I considered it for my bard, but picked conjure animals and counterspell. Two sessions since ding CA have found tons of use, and I wouldn't trade it for anything, but I haven't cast counterspell yet. Hopefully I will be glad i picked it eventually...
Find familiar is a GREAT spell, an easy default for 1st level spell. The problem here is that it is competing with higher level spells, so personally I would definitely not take it.
If you'll be facing spellcasters, Counterspell is a GREAT choice. Bards are better at Counterspell than Wizards, because you add half of your proficiency bonus to the ability check, if you end up needing to roll to counter it.
I don't really think the "it's a first level spell so not worth it"- argument holds any merit at all. Find familiar could easily be a 3rd level spell, and every wizard above 5th level would still have it and cast it.
I would love a familiar, but I can’t turn down a counter Spell, even if the group already has one , two would be amazing. Really shut down any large magic threat. Then... fireball! What can I say, I’m a fan of the old ways xD
I don't really think the "it's a first level spell so not worth it"- argument holds any merit at all. Find familiar could easily be a 3rd level spell, and every wizard above 5th level would still have it and cast it.
I would never use a third level spell slot on find familiar. Ever.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I don't really think the "it's a first level spell so not worth it"- argument holds any merit at all. Find familiar could easily be a 3rd level spell, and every wizard above 5th level would still have it and cast it.
I would never use a third level spell slot on find familiar. Ever.
I don't really think the "it's a first level spell so not worth it"- argument holds any merit at all. Find familiar could easily be a 3rd level spell, and every wizard above 5th level would still have it and cast it.
I would never use a third level spell slot on find familiar. Ever.
👆This.
I guess you mean "choose it as a spell known", because neither Wizards nor bards actually have to spend slots to cast it. Still - that surprises me, sincerely, but I am not the one to judge.
Well, the question for "third level spell known on find familiar" runs up against a simple problem - if you're already having issues with enough spell slots for the spells you do know at level 3... getting another third slot is questionable. Its all about opportunity costs.
Find Familiar is a great spell, but we are running into diminishing returns past level 6 here. I honestly don't have enough play experience as a wizard to really say.
I don't really think the "it's a first level spell so not worth it"- argument holds any merit at all. Find familiar could easily be a 3rd level spell, and every wizard above 5th level would still have it and cast it.
I would never use a third level spell slot on find familiar. Ever.
👆This.
I guess you mean "choose it as a spell known", because neither Wizards nor bards actually have to spend slots to cast it. Still - that surprises me, sincerely, but I am not the one to judge.
You don't always have the time or the luxury to cast something as a ritual. The point is, if you wouldn't be willing to expend a 3rd level spell slot for Find Familiar, but you would for, say, Fireball or Hypnotic Pattern... then obviously you're valuing those more.
I don't really think the "it's a first level spell so not worth it"- argument holds any merit at all. Find familiar could easily be a 3rd level spell, and every wizard above 5th level would still have it and cast it.
I would never use a third level spell slot on find familiar. Ever.
👆This.
I guess you mean "choose it as a spell known", because neither Wizards nor bards actually have to spend slots to cast it. Still - that surprises me, sincerely, but I am not the one to judge.
You don't always have the time or the luxury to cast something as a ritual. The point is, if you wouldn't be willing to expend a 3rd level spell slot for Find Familiar, but you would for, say, Fireball or Hypnotic Pattern... then obviously you're valuing those more.
Sorry, but that logic makes no sence at all, since you are pretending the ritual mechanic doesn't exist and doesn't change the value of a spell.
It's like saying tiny hut is a bad spell because you you would rather spend a slot on fireball, when part of the reason why tiny hut is a great spell, is that you don't have to spend spell slots for it.
I would value tiny hut and find familiar at about the same power level. Both are great spells I think every wizard should have in their book. Perhaps find familiar is a litle stronger...
I dont think find familiar have diminishing returns at higher levels at all, that's about the time when you can start getting into the borderline abusive stuff, utilizing magical items etc on your familiar.
I don't really think the "it's a first level spell so not worth it"- argument holds any merit at all. Find familiar could easily be a 3rd level spell, and every wizard above 5th level would still have it and cast it.
I would never use a third level spell slot on find familiar. Ever.
👆This.
I guess you mean "choose it as a spell known", because neither Wizards nor bards actually have to spend slots to cast it. Still - that surprises me, sincerely, but I am not the one to judge.
You don't always have the time or the luxury to cast something as a ritual. The point is, if you wouldn't be willing to expend a 3rd level spell slot for Find Familiar, but you would for, say, Fireball or Hypnotic Pattern... then obviously you're valuing those more.
Sorry, but that logic makes no sence at all, since you are pretending the ritual mechanic doesn't exist and doesn't change the value of a spell.
It's like saying tiny hut is a bad spell because you you would rather spend a slot on fireball, when part of the reason why tiny hut is a great spell, is that you don't have to spend spell slots for it.
I would value tiny hut and find familiar at about the same power level. Both are great spells I think every wizard should have in their book. Perhaps find familiar is a litle stronger...
I dont think find familiar have diminishing returns at higher levels at all, that's about the time when you can start getting into the borderline abusive stuff, utilizing magical items etc on your familiar.
That's a fair point that being a ritual spell adds to the value. Still, I just don't see it competing with things like Hypnotic Pattern, or Counterspell (especially on a Bard), or several other spells. If you stack it against every 1st through 3rd level spell in the game, I don't see it making the top 2. But that's all subjective.
If I wanted it that badly I could get it through magic initiate. And if another party member can get it, that severely diminishes (though not totally eliminates) its value.
OP - I recommend that if you wish to add Find Familiar to your arsenal of tools, then you should give thought to picking up Ritual Caster feat as Crzyhawk alluded to earlier. For the two spells you get with this feat, you could have Find Familiar and Comprehend Languages, another spell that is great for a Bard for RP and to fill his niche in the party.
I think Find Familiar is a very good spell. It is a lot of fun and very helpful for the utility of it to have a familiar that can scout ahead, or add to your party's ability to watch out for threats during a long rest.
I don't think, among all the 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells in the game, that this is one of the two spells I would take with my Magical Secrets at 6th level Lord Bard. I play a Lore Bard. I've given a lot of thought to it. Counterspell is almost universally acclaimed to be one of the two spells to select with the 6th level Magical Secrets improvement. This leaves you with one other spell to choose from.
Consider looking at how you would like your character built on level 8. I understand level 8 can be a long way from level 6, but consider it. Would you rather have the Find Familiar Ritual Spell, another Ritual Spell, Counterspell and another spell up to level 3 when you reach level 8 with your Lore Bard? I would, but you have to decide for yourself.
The alternative, at Level 8, is for your Lore bard to have Find Familiar and another spell up to 3rd level (covered by your Magical Secrets options), and the free use of your ASI at level 8 to do something you would like. This still allows you to build a nice Lord Bard.
Is Find Familiar really something you want that bad? Are you going to get plenty of play from this? Probably. But as I mention, you could pick it up at level 8 too.
Have you talked to your DM about it? Would he homebrew something that could give you F-F without using a slot in your M-S?
You will have some fun with Find Familiar, I'm sure, regardless of when you take the spell. Enjoy.
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Hey folks, just wanted to check back in here. Thanks for all the input; it ended up being a moot point. The game is a mega dungeon (Rappan Athuk) and we wandered into an encounter too much for the party; a failed concentration check to maintain Hypnotic Pattern lead to a natural 1 on a death saving throw.
Oh well. Being a bard was fun while it lasted.
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I'm playing a Lore Bard, and I'm picking up my first set of magical secrets.
I'm curious what people think of having Find Familiar as a bard. It's generally a useful spell, though in this case it's competing with everything else I could take. It also doesn't seem like the Bard spell list has a lot of touch-range spells that would be useful for that element of the familiar.
Any thoughts? Has anyone found it to be useful, or did it end up being a wasted opportunity for you?
Its honestly going to depend on what you and your party needs. Being able to use the Help action is less useful on a Bard than, say, a warlock or a wizard casting a cantrip. Being able to scout is handy, and bards do potentially learn Invisibility, but does your group need a familiar to scout with? Do you want an owl to carry messages back and forth? An extra pair of eyes while just being around? A cat or dog that can Help you during social situations to give you advantage on that Charisma check, by being distracting and cute?
The fundamental question at this point is this - what use would you have for the familiar if you got it?
A familiar is good for some scouting and also nice to add some flavor to your party. My biggest question is, did you take counter spell? IMO, that is a must have from the magical secrets. Amazing, party saving, brilliant spell.
Largely for scouting purposes. We're in a mega dungeon, and I thought the familiar would be better suited to exploring unseen rooms and corridors than any of us poking our heads around the corners. I guess it could deliver healing spells in a pinch.
Ah, yes, Counterspell is indeed amazing, though kind of boring (all things being equal.) Our wizard already has it, so it didn't seem like a priority. (Yet he didn't take Find Familiar. Go figure.)
I intend to pick up Counterspell and Thunderstep when I get Magical secrets. I will use Thunderstep to get our Rogue out of trouble every once in a while. He often gets himself in over his head.
Find Familiar is a great spell for first level, but I hate to burn it on a potentially available 3rd level spell. I know you don't cast it at 3rd level, but to give away one of your two magical secrets spells that you gain at 6th level by selecting a first level spell, well, I'd have to have a huge RP reason to do this. Maybe, but I don't see it.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I use an owl on my tome pact warlock, and I love it. That said, I wouldn't burn Magical Secrets on it. I'd pick up Find Familiar via a feat instead.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
If your party lacks a familiar and you want one, then sure, go for it. You are basically trading a spell known for a class feature, not a bad deal i'd say. I considered it for my bard, but picked conjure animals and counterspell. Two sessions since ding CA have found tons of use, and I wouldn't trade it for anything, but I haven't cast counterspell yet. Hopefully I will be glad i picked it eventually...
Find familiar is a GREAT spell, an easy default for 1st level spell. The problem here is that it is competing with higher level spells, so personally I would definitely not take it.
If you'll be facing spellcasters, Counterspell is a GREAT choice. Bards are better at Counterspell than Wizards, because you add half of your proficiency bonus to the ability check, if you end up needing to roll to counter it.
I don't really think the "it's a first level spell so not worth it"- argument holds any merit at all. Find familiar could easily be a 3rd level spell, and every wizard above 5th level would still have it and cast it.
So there is no third level spell you would prefer? Or second level? Or even another first level?
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I would love a familiar, but I can’t turn down a counter Spell, even if the group already has one , two would be amazing. Really shut down any large magic threat. Then... fireball! What can I say, I’m a fan of the old ways xD
I would never use a third level spell slot on find familiar. Ever.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
👆This.
I guess you mean "choose it as a spell known", because neither Wizards nor bards actually have to spend slots to cast it. Still - that surprises me, sincerely, but I am not the one to judge.
Well, the question for "third level spell known on find familiar" runs up against a simple problem - if you're already having issues with enough spell slots for the spells you do know at level 3... getting another third slot is questionable. Its all about opportunity costs.
Find Familiar is a great spell, but we are running into diminishing returns past level 6 here. I honestly don't have enough play experience as a wizard to really say.
You don't always have the time or the luxury to cast something as a ritual. The point is, if you wouldn't be willing to expend a 3rd level spell slot for Find Familiar, but you would for, say, Fireball or Hypnotic Pattern... then obviously you're valuing those more.
Sorry, but that logic makes no sence at all, since you are pretending the ritual mechanic doesn't exist and doesn't change the value of a spell.
It's like saying tiny hut is a bad spell because you you would rather spend a slot on fireball, when part of the reason why tiny hut is a great spell, is that you don't have to spend spell slots for it.
I would value tiny hut and find familiar at about the same power level. Both are great spells I think every wizard should have in their book. Perhaps find familiar is a litle stronger...
I dont think find familiar have diminishing returns at higher levels at all, that's about the time when you can start getting into the borderline abusive stuff, utilizing magical items etc on your familiar.
That's a fair point that being a ritual spell adds to the value. Still, I just don't see it competing with things like Hypnotic Pattern, or Counterspell (especially on a Bard), or several other spells. If you stack it against every 1st through 3rd level spell in the game, I don't see it making the top 2. But that's all subjective.
If I wanted it that badly I could get it through magic initiate. And if another party member can get it, that severely diminishes (though not totally eliminates) its value.
OP - I recommend that if you wish to add Find Familiar to your arsenal of tools, then you should give thought to picking up Ritual Caster feat as Crzyhawk alluded to earlier. For the two spells you get with this feat, you could have Find Familiar and Comprehend Languages, another spell that is great for a Bard for RP and to fill his niche in the party.
I think Find Familiar is a very good spell. It is a lot of fun and very helpful for the utility of it to have a familiar that can scout ahead, or add to your party's ability to watch out for threats during a long rest.
I don't think, among all the 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells in the game, that this is one of the two spells I would take with my Magical Secrets at 6th level Lord Bard. I play a Lore Bard. I've given a lot of thought to it. Counterspell is almost universally acclaimed to be one of the two spells to select with the 6th level Magical Secrets improvement. This leaves you with one other spell to choose from.
Consider looking at how you would like your character built on level 8. I understand level 8 can be a long way from level 6, but consider it. Would you rather have the Find Familiar Ritual Spell, another Ritual Spell, Counterspell and another spell up to level 3 when you reach level 8 with your Lore Bard? I would, but you have to decide for yourself.
The alternative, at Level 8, is for your Lore bard to have Find Familiar and another spell up to 3rd level (covered by your Magical Secrets options), and the free use of your ASI at level 8 to do something you would like. This still allows you to build a nice Lord Bard.
Is Find Familiar really something you want that bad? Are you going to get plenty of play from this? Probably. But as I mention, you could pick it up at level 8 too.
Have you talked to your DM about it? Would he homebrew something that could give you F-F without using a slot in your M-S?
You will have some fun with Find Familiar, I'm sure, regardless of when you take the spell. Enjoy.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Hey folks, just wanted to check back in here. Thanks for all the input; it ended up being a moot point. The game is a mega dungeon (Rappan Athuk) and we wandered into an encounter too much for the party; a failed concentration check to maintain Hypnotic Pattern lead to a natural 1 on a death saving throw.
Oh well. Being a bard was fun while it lasted.