I'm making a Stout Halfling character who I plan to be third level with two levels in Life Cleric and one level in Divine Soul Sorcerer. They're very much a Lawful Good chosen disciple of the god of agriculture. However as I am making the character, I am wondering about how useful and effective this multiclass would actually be. I am considering at later levels having three levels in Sorcerer and seventeen in Cleric if that helps.
If you are doing it for role play reasons why are you thinking a chosen disciple of the God of agricuture should have both obtained magic as a sorcerer and as a cleric.
From the Divine Soul Sourcerer section
A Divine Soul, with a natural magnetism, is seen as a threat by some religious hierarchies. As an outsider who commands sacred power, a Divine Soul can undermine an existing order by claiming a direct tie to the divine.
In some cultures, only those who can claim the power of a Divine Soul may command religious power. In these lands, ecclesiastical positions are dominated by a few bloodlines and preserved over generations.
So as a divine soul sorcerer you can either be a maverick opposed by organised religion or a potential leader of the religion depending on the culture you are in. I would suggest unless you have a very clear idea why your character shouldn't be a single class from a role play point of view you should stick with either cleric or sorcerer.
From a mechanical point of view it is also sub optimal, if you plan on going mostly cleric you will want wisdom to be your primary stat.
If you go heavy armor you will want strength at 15 (at least after you level 4 ASI as you will expect to get plate after that), even if your DM waves encumberance I would say this is the case, while a wood elf might be OK with the movement penalty for wearing heavy armor (down form 35 to 25) a halfling would only be able ot move 15ft per round without dashing, you just wouldn't be able ot get around the battlefield. Throw in some difficult terrain and you are really stuck. If you go medium armour you have a lower AC and still want 14 Dex.
As a front liner (and even if you aren't) you want hit points and that comes from a decent DC
To multiclass with sorcerer you need at least 13 charisma and if you keep at it that your sorcerer spells will need to be those that don't rely on charisma,
The main pull of divine soul scorcerer is you get access to the cleric spell list, but you get them as a cleric anyway. The main pull of multiclassing two full casting classes is the versatility of knowing a lot more spells but the sorcer knows so few levelled spells all you are gaining is versatility with your cantrips. 3 sorcery points will not go very far, (or even 9 if you convert all your sorcerer spells to sorcery points) and you will always be significantly behind on your cleric abilities.
I would strongly suggest you pick one or the other and stick with it as a single class.
I think the trick here is figuring out what you want to steal from sorcerer.
Here are the things 1 level of sorcerer at the start can do for you: 4 cantrips (I recommend going utility here, mage hand, shape water, etc toss in something like firebolt or chill touch as an attack cantrip) Constitution saving throws, now you don't need to take resilient/warcaster 2 spells, now you need to avoid spells that use your caster stat, magic missile for damage and your choice of absorb elements or shield for the long term. If you want to go dex/medium armor long term I recommend absorb elements. If you plan on going str heavy armor go shield.
Subclass: Now I really like choice of lawful for divine soul. Normally I would go this way, but you mentioned you are going life cleric. Here the bonus spell of bless is redundant with life cleric's bonus spell. Instead I recommend Clockwork Soul to pick up alarm/prot from evil good. Also meshes with the lawful alignment.
For race I would go half-elf and put the floating +1's into wisdom and either dex or str depending on which route you want to take. Point buy wisdom to 15, Cha to 12 or 14 and get str to 14. Funnel the rest into other stats as necessary although constitution is probably next best.
Level 2 go Cleric. Make sure you get Toll the Dead as a cantrip because you will need it for reliable damage. Take cleric to level 5 or 6 before taking another level in sorcerer.
The build is neutral on spell slots, has a wealth of cantrip options, and has constitution saves to help with concentration. That is a very good haul. Add in either shield or absorb elements and you have some good things to add to a cleric. Its going to always be a level or so behind. In my view this is going to feel worst at level 5 when you won't have spirit guardians. Next worry is getting greater restoration which is a critical maintenance duty for the cleric.
Normally on the half elf I would recommend the half Drow option for some more free spells, but you want to be a farmer. Maybe a mushroom farmer.
Didn't notice the stout halfling choice. That is hard. +1 to Con, and +2 to Dex really don't help either casting stat. Still workable, but you are going to want to point buy the cha to 14 and the wisdom to 15.
You are generally going to feel behind on your caster stat your entire career.
What are your intended goals in mixing Cleric and Sorcerer for this character?
In general the big advantage of the Divine Soul is that you get access to the full Cleric spell list, which means that if your plan is to be a support/blaster type full caster then you don't need any levels in Cleric at all, as this lets you advance your metamagics and sorcery points faster (as well as your spell level progression). You also get one hell of a bonus for Cleric spell casting; you can use the Quickened Spell metamgic to cast Bless as a bonus action, rather than losing a turn (or having to be cast ahead of a fight). You can add this to any Cleric using the Metamagic Adept feat, but that's a costly investment to only do it once per long rest.
On the other hand, compared to clerics who get armour and weapons to fallback on at close range, you'll end up with a flimsier caster overall, especially when your magic is interfered with (whereas a Cleric without magic can still use Channel Divinity and cast mace).
But it really depends what your goals for the character are; I will always argue that those trump mechanical concerns, though it's worth keeping in mind the trade offs. Cleric/Sorcerer means you want both Wisdom and Charisma to be good, but that unless you roll for ability scores and roll really well then that means there'll be some trade off, probably on physical attributes, though if you don't intend to use weapons much that may not matter. You also don't need to maximise both stats, a +2's and +3's will serve you well enough through the bulk of a campaign, especially if the added flexibility is what you want most. You'll also lose spell level progression though; while your slots will progress normally, the level of spell you can learn is limited to each class, so a Cleric 2/Sorcer 1 will have 2nd level slots but no 2nd level spells (though you can upcast 1st levels as normal). You also lose higher level features, but this depends how high level you expect your campaign to get.
It can work, but it'll be a tough balancing act, but it if you a clear character reason to mix both then I'd still consider it.
I'd say if metamagic is the draw, even if you can only do it twice a day max, the feat may still be the way to go. I just put that feat on my own Life Cleric -- you can double the distance of your healing spells, which will help with your slower walking speed, and you can quicken, as mentioned, or a number of other things.
Sorcerer with a dip into Cleric can be very potent if you're focusing on meta magic. I'd suggest taking the meta magic feat too in order to get more options.
If you're taking life to be a better healer then I'd suggest twilight instead since it's so effective.
Very effective. Starting off as a cleric you get all the armor proficiencies along with chainmail and a shield in your equipment. With divine soul you can not only grab a bunch of healing spells of the cleric, but also all the arcane goodies of the sorcerer (and CON prof if you take that as your starting class). Like shield, haste, polymorph, silvery barbs if your DM didn't do a day 1 ban, etc. May I ask why 3 levels cleric and not 1 level? That's the build a player went with on this oneshot server I run on and it's a very "optimize as much as possible" server in my experience. Going just 3 levels means you'll lose out on an ASI, and you'll be even more behind than the rest of the parties with your progression. You have the high level slots that any other full casters might have but you won't have the high level spells. Any other full caster would, at 8th level, have an ASI and access to 4th level spells whilst you'd only have JUST ACQUIRED 3rd level spells.
1 cleric level is much better in this respect, if it matters to you that is, as it gives you all the healing benefits you might want, all the armors, access to the best 1st level spells on the cleric list (healing word, sanctuary, bless, shield of faith, etc) with the ability to prepare them instead of spending a known spell on them, and the life cleric subclass takes care of one of those preparations for you anywho.
If you want to make your DM cry you could also instead just go 1 level twilight cleric, you'd lose the healing but gain some more utility and martial weapons (I don't suggest being a frontline fighter though unless you don't have any in the party. But of course that's just an internet stranger's opinion).
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I was hoping to ask some options I am starting a neutral war forged life cleric and wanted to multiclass to sorcerer for meta magic for twinned spell and quickened spell is there any advice on some good choices to invest in as I progress. My aim in to be effective at keeping people alive, as I tend to play healing classes in mmorpgs
I was hoping to ask some options I am starting a neutral war forged life cleric and wanted to multiclass to sorcerer for meta magic for twinned spell and quickened spell is there any advice on some good choices to invest in as I progress. My aim in to be effective at keeping people alive, as I tend to play healing classes in mmorpgs
Is there anything from the cleric side that you specifically want/need for your character? The first question with Cleric/Sorcerer should always be "why not just go divine soul?" as it gives you access to the entire cleric spell list as a Sorcerer so it's already a best of both, and by focusing on Sorcerer you will gain more sorcery points sooner along with more Metamagics etc.
Cleric domains do have access to some neat features though, but you may not need many levels in Cleric to get the bits you really want; for example, newer Cleric domains have 1st-level features tied to proficiency rather than Wisdom or class level, so they'll improve even if you have low Wisdom and take most of your levels in Sorcerer, some also give you bonus armour and weapon proficiencies so you may want to be mindful of the order you take Cleric and Sorcerer levels if you'd really like to be an armoured Cleric/Sorcerer. Channel divinity powers are also usually worth having, though some domains are better than others for these.
Hi yall!
I'm making a Stout Halfling character who I plan to be third level with two levels in Life Cleric and one level in Divine Soul Sorcerer. They're very much a Lawful Good chosen disciple of the god of agriculture. However as I am making the character, I am wondering about how useful and effective this multiclass would actually be. I am considering at later levels having three levels in Sorcerer and seventeen in Cleric if that helps.
Thanks!
If you are doing it for role play reasons why are you thinking a chosen disciple of the God of agricuture should have both obtained magic as a sorcerer and as a cleric.
From the Divine Soul Sourcerer section
So as a divine soul sorcerer you can either be a maverick opposed by organised religion or a potential leader of the religion depending on the culture you are in. I would suggest unless you have a very clear idea why your character shouldn't be a single class from a role play point of view you should stick with either cleric or sorcerer.
From a mechanical point of view it is also sub optimal, if you plan on going mostly cleric you will want wisdom to be your primary stat.
If you go heavy armor you will want strength at 15 (at least after you level 4 ASI as you will expect to get plate after that), even if your DM waves encumberance I would say this is the case, while a wood elf might be OK with the movement penalty for wearing heavy armor (down form 35 to 25) a halfling would only be able ot move 15ft per round without dashing, you just wouldn't be able ot get around the battlefield. Throw in some difficult terrain and you are really stuck. If you go medium armour you have a lower AC and still want 14 Dex.
As a front liner (and even if you aren't) you want hit points and that comes from a decent DC
To multiclass with sorcerer you need at least 13 charisma and if you keep at it that your sorcerer spells will need to be those that don't rely on charisma,
The main pull of divine soul scorcerer is you get access to the cleric spell list, but you get them as a cleric anyway. The main pull of multiclassing two full casting classes is the versatility of knowing a lot more spells but the sorcer knows so few levelled spells all you are gaining is versatility with your cantrips. 3 sorcery points will not go very far, (or even 9 if you convert all your sorcerer spells to sorcery points) and you will always be significantly behind on your cleric abilities.
I would strongly suggest you pick one or the other and stick with it as a single class.
Thank you, this was incredibly helpful!
I think the trick here is figuring out what you want to steal from sorcerer.
Here are the things 1 level of sorcerer at the start can do for you:
4 cantrips (I recommend going utility here, mage hand, shape water, etc toss in something like firebolt or chill touch as an attack cantrip)
Constitution saving throws, now you don't need to take resilient/warcaster
2 spells, now you need to avoid spells that use your caster stat, magic missile for damage and your choice of absorb elements or shield for the long term. If you want to go dex/medium armor long term I recommend absorb elements. If you plan on going str heavy armor go shield.
Subclass: Now I really like choice of lawful for divine soul. Normally I would go this way, but you mentioned you are going life cleric. Here the bonus spell of bless is redundant with life cleric's bonus spell. Instead I recommend Clockwork Soul to pick up alarm/prot from evil good. Also meshes with the lawful alignment.
For race I would go half-elf and put the floating +1's into wisdom and either dex or str depending on which route you want to take. Point buy wisdom to 15, Cha to 12 or 14 and get str to 14. Funnel the rest into other stats as necessary although constitution is probably next best.
Level 2 go Cleric. Make sure you get Toll the Dead as a cantrip because you will need it for reliable damage. Take cleric to level 5 or 6 before taking another level in sorcerer.
The build is neutral on spell slots, has a wealth of cantrip options, and has constitution saves to help with concentration. That is a very good haul. Add in either shield or absorb elements and you have some good things to add to a cleric. Its going to always be a level or so behind. In my view this is going to feel worst at level 5 when you won't have spirit guardians. Next worry is getting greater restoration which is a critical maintenance duty for the cleric.
Normally on the half elf I would recommend the half Drow option for some more free spells, but you want to be a farmer. Maybe a mushroom farmer.
Didn't notice the stout halfling choice. That is hard. +1 to Con, and +2 to Dex really don't help either casting stat. Still workable, but you are going to want to point buy the cha to 14 and the wisdom to 15.
You are generally going to feel behind on your caster stat your entire career.
What are your intended goals in mixing Cleric and Sorcerer for this character?
In general the big advantage of the Divine Soul is that you get access to the full Cleric spell list, which means that if your plan is to be a support/blaster type full caster then you don't need any levels in Cleric at all, as this lets you advance your metamagics and sorcery points faster (as well as your spell level progression). You also get one hell of a bonus for Cleric spell casting; you can use the Quickened Spell metamgic to cast Bless as a bonus action, rather than losing a turn (or having to be cast ahead of a fight). You can add this to any Cleric using the Metamagic Adept feat, but that's a costly investment to only do it once per long rest.
On the other hand, compared to clerics who get armour and weapons to fallback on at close range, you'll end up with a flimsier caster overall, especially when your magic is interfered with (whereas a Cleric without magic can still use Channel Divinity and cast mace).
But it really depends what your goals for the character are; I will always argue that those trump mechanical concerns, though it's worth keeping in mind the trade offs. Cleric/Sorcerer means you want both Wisdom and Charisma to be good, but that unless you roll for ability scores and roll really well then that means there'll be some trade off, probably on physical attributes, though if you don't intend to use weapons much that may not matter. You also don't need to maximise both stats, a +2's and +3's will serve you well enough through the bulk of a campaign, especially if the added flexibility is what you want most. You'll also lose spell level progression though; while your slots will progress normally, the level of spell you can learn is limited to each class, so a Cleric 2/Sorcer 1 will have 2nd level slots but no 2nd level spells (though you can upcast 1st levels as normal). You also lose higher level features, but this depends how high level you expect your campaign to get.
It can work, but it'll be a tough balancing act, but it if you a clear character reason to mix both then I'd still consider it.
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I'd say if metamagic is the draw, even if you can only do it twice a day max, the feat may still be the way to go. I just put that feat on my own Life Cleric -- you can double the distance of your healing spells, which will help with your slower walking speed, and you can quicken, as mentioned, or a number of other things.
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Sorcerer with a dip into Cleric can be very potent if you're focusing on meta magic. I'd suggest taking the meta magic feat too in order to get more options.
If you're taking life to be a better healer then I'd suggest twilight instead since it's so effective.
Very effective. Starting off as a cleric you get all the armor proficiencies along with chainmail and a shield in your equipment. With divine soul you can not only grab a bunch of healing spells of the cleric, but also all the arcane goodies of the sorcerer (and CON prof if you take that as your starting class). Like shield, haste, polymorph, silvery barbs if your DM didn't do a day 1 ban, etc. May I ask why 3 levels cleric and not 1 level? That's the build a player went with on this oneshot server I run on and it's a very "optimize as much as possible" server in my experience. Going just 3 levels means you'll lose out on an ASI, and you'll be even more behind than the rest of the parties with your progression. You have the high level slots that any other full casters might have but you won't have the high level spells. Any other full caster would, at 8th level, have an ASI and access to 4th level spells whilst you'd only have JUST ACQUIRED 3rd level spells.
1 cleric level is much better in this respect, if it matters to you that is, as it gives you all the healing benefits you might want, all the armors, access to the best 1st level spells on the cleric list (healing word, sanctuary, bless, shield of faith, etc) with the ability to prepare them instead of spending a known spell on them, and the life cleric subclass takes care of one of those preparations for you anywho.
If you want to make your DM cry you could also instead just go 1 level twilight cleric, you'd lose the healing but gain some more utility and martial weapons (I don't suggest being a frontline fighter though unless you don't have any in the party. But of course that's just an internet stranger's opinion).
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Buying the physical books does not entitle you to free digital versions.
I was hoping to ask some options I am starting a neutral war forged life cleric and wanted to multiclass to sorcerer for meta magic for twinned spell and quickened spell is there any advice on some good choices to invest in as I progress. My aim in to be effective at keeping people alive, as I tend to play healing classes in mmorpgs
Is there anything from the cleric side that you specifically want/need for your character? The first question with Cleric/Sorcerer should always be "why not just go divine soul?" as it gives you access to the entire cleric spell list as a Sorcerer so it's already a best of both, and by focusing on Sorcerer you will gain more sorcery points sooner along with more Metamagics etc.
Cleric domains do have access to some neat features though, but you may not need many levels in Cleric to get the bits you really want; for example, newer Cleric domains have 1st-level features tied to proficiency rather than Wisdom or class level, so they'll improve even if you have low Wisdom and take most of your levels in Sorcerer, some also give you bonus armour and weapon proficiencies so you may want to be mindful of the order you take Cleric and Sorcerer levels if you'd really like to be an armoured Cleric/Sorcerer. Channel divinity powers are also usually worth having, though some domains are better than others for these.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.