While I really like the idea of the Trickery Domain in theory as a fun twist on your standard Cleric, I always find it a bit underwhelming when I try to build and play as one. The main problems being that the Cleric spell list just doesn't have a lot of good "trickery" spells, illusion in particular, Cloak of Shadows is a bit weak as a channel divinity (being fully invisible for a round isn't bad but the value seems poor when there are now more ways than ever to get Invisibility thanks to Shadow Touched and similar feats), and Invoke Duplicity while a lot of fun can ruin the action economy.
So I decided to create a modified version of the sub-class, with tweaks to the spell list, the ability to choose from the Bard spell list, and doubling down a bit on Invoke Duplicity.
Trickster deities embody chaos, deception and mischief.
Trickster Domain Spells
In addition to the domain spells shown below, whenever your spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a cantrip or prepare a spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from either the Bard or the Cleric spell lists.
You can use your action to touch a willing creature other than yourself to give it advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks. This blessing lasts for 1 hour or until you use this feature again.
Channel Divinity: Invoke Duplicity
2nd-level Trickster Domain feature
You may use your bonus action to create a perfect illusory duplicate of yourself that lasts for 1 minute and occupies your concentration (as if concentrating upon a spell). The illusion appears in an unoccupied space you can see within 30 feet. At the start of each of your turns, you can move the illusion up to 30 feet to a space you can see, but it must remain within 120 feet of you. If the duplicate is ever further than 120 feet from you then it will disappear.
For the duration, you can cast spells as though you were in the illusion’s space, but you must use your own senses. Additionally, when both you and your illusion are within 5 feet of a creature that can see the illusion, you have advantage on attack rolls against that creature, given how distracting the illusion is to the target.
So long as it lasts, the duplicate is totally convincing, and creatures that do not know it is an illusion must assume that it could be the original. If a creature attacks the duplicate it may make an Insight check at the end of its turn against your spell save DC, it may also make this check if it witnesses the duplicate acting strangely. On a success, that creature will realise the duplicate is an illusion, will perceive it as translucent and may choose to ignore it.
Enhanced Duplicity
6th-level Trickster Domain feature
Invoke Duplicity no longer occupies your concentration as if concentrating upon a spell.
In addition, at the start of each of your turns you may choose whether to use your own senses, or those of one of your duplicates. Your duplicates' senses are identical to your own, excluding any conditions that may be currently affecting you.
While occupying a duplicate's senses it has a weak yet tangible presence, enabling you to do the following:
You can manipulate objects within 5 feet of the duplicate that weigh no more than 10 pounds. If manipulating the object would require the Use an Object action, you must use your action to do this.
You can use your action to Grapple or Shove a target within 5 feet of the duplicate. A creature cannot be grappled by a duplicate if it either knows it is an illusion, or if you have returned to your senses.
You can use your action to make a single attack against a target within range of the duplicate. This attack can be made using any weapon that the duplicate appears to be holding. Attacks by a duplicate are magical, but receive no bonuses from equipment or spell effects you may have – a duplicate of a mace, +3 is merely a mace etc.
Divine Strike
8th-level Trickster Domain feature
Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d8 poison damage to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8.
Prolonged Duplicity
8th-level Trickster Domain feature
Your Invoke Duplicity now lasts up to 10 minutes.
Supreme Duplicity
17th-level Trickster Domain feature
You can create up to four duplicates, instead of one, when you use Invoke Duplicity. These no longer need to be duplicates of only yourself but can instead be duplicates of any humanoid creature(s) that you can see within 60 feet. Whenever you could move one duplicate you can now move any number of duplicates up to 30 feet each.
In addition, your Invoke Duplicity now lasts up to one hour, however the duration is reduced by 15 minutes for each additional duplicate after the first.
Notes
The main changes are:
Dropped Dispel Magic for Hypnotic Pattern and Dominate Monster for Mislead. These spells are still available as ordinary choices, but the new ones feel more trickstery to me (Dispel Magic feels too practical, and Dominate Person just feels mean rather than mischievous IMO).
You may now choose cantrips and prepare spells from the Bard or Cleric spell list.
Dropped Cloak of Shadows (as you can now just take Invisibility as an ordinary spell).
Invoke Duplicity clarifies how the illusion works, and no longer requires a bonus action to move it.
New 6th level feature Enhanced Duplicity eliminates concentration to maintain the duplicate, and grants the ability to switch to the duplicate's senses. While using the duplicate's senses you can also use it to manipulate objects, grapple, shove or even attack a target.
Duration of your duplicate increases to 10 minutes at 8th level.
17th level feature renamed Supreme Duplicity but largely similar; main change is that your duplicates can now be of any humanoid(s) you see within 60 feet instead of just yourself, giving you more ways to cause chaos.
The idea is to keep the changes relatively minor; the addition of the Bard spell list is definitely the biggest change. My original intention was just to give access to all Illusion spells but I don't think there's actually a way to do that in D&D Beyond homebrew, so adding the Bard list seemed the cleanest alternative (plus it adds some other decent options). With easy access to proper invisibility spells Cloak of Shadows became redundant, so I decided to double-down a bit on Invoke Duplicity instead.
So long as the Trickery CD requires concentration, it'll remain the worst CD in the game and the subclass will feel underwhelming.
It's a Channel Divinity that creates a completely invincible duplicate that lasts for a full minute (most other CDs are instantaneous) and enables you to cast touch spells against an enemy without ever putting yourself at risk; it may pale in comparison to Twilight's Channel Divinity, but then that's because Twilight's is one of the most blindingly obviously unbalanced features released in years.
I have considered changing how the duplicate functions entirely, but that's a lot more complicated to implement (and balance). For example, if it doesn't occupy concentration then how else is it balanced? Hitpoints and AC? Should it count as a proper creature or function entirely as an illusion? The vanilla duplicate can be a very powerful ability when used properly, so it needs to be balanced carefully. Concentration and action economy do that in the vanilla version, but they present a scaling problem which is why I opted to drop the bonus action to move at 6th level when most other Clerics (and classes) scale out of tier 1. As for the concentration, this is only a problem if you remain a position where you're likely to get hit; the purpose of the duplicate is distraction, if you're just standing out in the open obviously being the real source of the spells its casting then you've done it wrong.
Also "the worst CD in the game", really? I'd argue it's one of the better ones. If you want worst look at Arcana Domain's Arcane Abjuration (Turn Undead for different creature types, but only a single target), or Forge Domain's Artisan's Blessing (create some basic equipment, not terrible, but highly situational and even when you can get the most out of it rarely massive). To be clear, I like both of these domains, but I don't pick them for their channel divinities, whereas Trickster I partly would, I just wish it didn't need a bonus action to move at higher levels (when you've got a lot more you want to use your bonus action for).
The problem with the CD is it's Illusion based and Illusion magic is so open to DM interpertation.
To me, if there's a *perfect* illusionary duplicate, enemies shouldn't know to not attack them. Especially if you're doing touch spells from their location
But RAW doesn't force DMs to waste attacks on it. Add gives disadvantage to incoming attack rolls and it's much better
And for the love of god, give Trickery Clerics access to Minor Illusion
And just like with Echo Knights, Trickery Clerics should be able to move it for free at level 2
The problem with the CD is it's Illusion based and Illusion magic is so open to DM interpertation.
To me, if there's a *perfect* illusionary duplicate, enemies shouldn't know to not attack them. Especially if you're doing touch spells from their location
But RAW doesn't force DMs to waste attacks on it. Add gives disadvantage to incoming attack rolls and it's much better
That sounds like more of an issue with your DM(s); a DM should not need to be forced to treat illusions as convincing, just like they shouldn't be forced to attack something for it to work as a tank. DMs who metagame are not DMs, they're arseholes.
I could add a line that more explicitly sets out how a DM should already be running this feature I guess, something like:
So long as it lasts, the duplicate is totally convincing, and creatures that do not know it is an illusion must act as they would towards the original. If a creature attacks the duplicate it may make an Insight check at the end of its turn against your spell save DC, it may also make this check if it witnesses the duplicate acting strangely. On a success, that creature will realise the duplicate is an illusion, will perceive it as translucent and may choose to ignore it.
This is pretty much how it should be played already though; when something is described as a "perfect illusion" a DM is already being told that enemies can't just ignore it.
The Insight check isn't strictly RAW already but it's an obvious way to handle it since an enemy wouldn't necessarily immediately realise that their weapons passing through means that the target is an illusion (as opposed to having a weird Shield, some form of etherealness etc.).
And for the love of god, give Trickery Clerics access to Minor Illusion
Already have; the biggest change in my version is access to the Bard spell list. Not my preferred solution (I really only wanted more illusion spells) but it gives you access to a huge amount of added trickery options.
And just like with Echo Knights, Trickery Clerics should be able to move it for free at level 2
I'll have a think about how to make the duplicate more well defined without being overly complicated, but I'm not sure Echo Knight is a good point of comparison as it's Critical Role content.
A lot of spells and creature companion type features involve a bonus action to control them; while I want to see that lifted for later levels so your bonus action is being blocked off when competition for it increases, doing that right away seems too soon, as it's still a ranged Inflict Wounds delivery vehicle, making it extremely strong even if your DM is a total dickhead about how they treat the illusion.
The spell list was perfect man idk what you're talking about. As shown by the fact you only switched out TWO spells from its domain list, and honestly not really for the better imo.
a couple of ideas I had with trickery domain was to at least give it two abilities at first level like the other domains. Here are some that I jostled in my head:
Sly One's Step. If you are wearing armor that gives you disadvantage on Dexterity (stealth) checks, you ignore that penalty. | Optional Add-On: You gain a 5 ft. bonus to your movement speed. | Maybe it let's you choose between the two things instead of giving both or the like?
Bells and Whistles. You gain proficiency in two of your choice: Stealth, Thieves' Tools, Deception, or Sleight of Hand. Additionally, you learn the minor illusion cantrip. The cantrip counts as a cleric cantrip for you and doesn't count against your number of cantrips known.
When you cast minor illusion, you can create both a sound and an image with a single casting of the spell.
As someone who actually plays a trickery cleric, I never use Invoke Duplicity. I've used it ONCE out of combat, and that was it. That's the only time it is useful. As long as it requires concentration I will never use it in combat because it just isn't worth it. There so many better things to concentrate on as a cleric that the fact this costs concentration is ludicrous in all honesty. Why pick THIS over Spirit Guardians? Bless? Shield of Faith? Hold Person? Silence? Spirit Shroud? Banishment? Aura of Vitality?
Now, that's a bit of the thing though. A trickery cleric is better for non-combat scenarios than combat ones (or at least, for their trickster specific stuff. They're still clerics after all.), that's where they shine. But this is a combat focused game, and it's pretty clear Invoke Duplicity was intended to be used in combat (seeing as combat benefits were explicitly given to the ability). But it just doesn't work in combat when it's an actively shit choice for concentration. Invoke Duplicity will only, realistically, work for 1 round at most and then boom. Now the monster knows that thing's an illusion and you got 1 round of use for a 1 minute ability when you could've instead used your action for something meaningful. Like spirit guardians or toll the dead. Or dodging.
But...
Your changes to the ability make it a much more interesting and versatile channel divinity. But you have to wait until the high levels before it even gets good. Would be nice if you could speak through the illusion.
Also why the hell keep divine strike? Divine strike is shit. Especially poison damage! Potent spellcasting definitely fits better and is less useless.
I think Cloak of Shadows should simply be another resource to use instead of getting rid of it or having it be a CD. It shouldn't give Invoke Duplicity competition because then Invoke Duplicity will see even less use. Just let folks use it an amount of times equal to their wisdom mod and it's golden.
I do believe there is a way to give access to all illusion spells on DDB, you might've just missed it. I'll go check for myself and report back.
EDIT: You'd have to add each spell individually.
EDIT 2: To bring this more on-topic and address your specific changes more, I do think giving access to the bard spell list is an AMAZING choice. Honestly, just doing that and this becomes like one of the top 5 at least for cleric subclasses.
The spell list was perfect man idk what you're talking about. As shown by the fact you only switched out TWO spells from its domain list, and honestly not really for the better imo.
The two I swapped out I did-so because they're not necessary with access to the Bard list (you can just take them normally if you want them).
a couple of ideas I had with trickery domain…
Lots of interesting ideas and good points here!
I'll give it all more of a think, I really need to go through as much of the concentration spells as I can to see the impact of not being concentration would have on Invoke Duplicity, or if there's a better way to balance it; one possibility would be giving the duplicate either durability (hitpoints and AC) so enemies have a way to get rid of it (and prevent you casting through it) once they know it's an illusion.
The alternative is to keep it concentration but allow the trickster to concentrate on it in addition to another spell (so losing concentration will still end both), but I'm concerned it could be too abusable somehow.
So I just wanted to post an update with some of the changes I've made so far; I've been distracted by a load of other homebrew recently so I've mostly focused on the duplicate, with the following changes:
Added a paragraph clarifying how the duplicate's illusory nature is intended to work. I believe this is basically how it's supposed to work in the official release but this makes it explicit.
Moving duplicates is no longer a bonus action, it just triggers at the start of your turn. I went back and forth on this but I can't really see any way that it's especially exploitable, same with triggering it on a bonus action; worst thing you can do is cast through it on the turn it arrives, but you need to be in a position to see your target so it's not really a problem. having the free move at the start of the turn does mean that on the turn it appears the duplicate can't move, so this does still produce a lag before you can use it offensively unless you're happy to summon it in front of an enemy who'll immediately know it's an illusion.
Enhanced Duplicity at 6th removes the concentration requirement, and gives the ability to use the duplicate's senses. In addition to allowing you to see what you're casting at through it, switching to its senses also gives you a few other options for mischief including manipulating light objects, or grappling, shoving or attacking a target near the duplicate. In the case of grappling a target that knows it's an illusion can't remain grappled. And for attacking you get no benefits for equipment or spell effects (elemental weapon cast on you has no effect on the duplicate, a magic weapon is just mundane for them etc.).
The duration of the duplicate increases at 8th alongside Divine Strike. It's worth noting that I've tried to make the wording of Enhanced Duplicity's attack compatible with this, so you while your duplicate's weapon is just an ordinary version of whatever it appears to be holding, it can still deal a bit of poison damage for good measure.
I'd still like to open it up a bit with some other features that aren't all about the duplicate; I'm leaning towards having the duration increase at 6th rather than 8th, and have a bonus feature at 8th to compensate for poison being a generally weaker damage type for Divine Strike. Though it's tricky, as the ability to Divine Strike through a duplicate maybe already balances it a bit?
An alternative might be to move some of Enhanced Duplicity into Invoke Duplicity in the first place, leaving room for something new at 6th?
Divine Strike is unoriginal and boring. The fact that a Trickery Cleric, out of all the Clerics, also get it just makes it worse.
It would make much more sense for a Trickster Cleric to be able to impose the Charmed or Poisoned condition with a melee weapon attack. Have it be usable a # of times equal to 1/3 your Cleric levels. The other trade-off for the power of the effect is you only do 1 hit point of damage to that creature when you want to apply the Charmed or Poisoned condition via the feature. And the creature gets to make a WIS or CON saving throw (charmed or poisoned, respectively) every round to end the condition.
Divine Strike is unoriginal and boring. The fact that a Trickery Cleric, out of all the Clerics, also get it just makes it worse.
It would make much more sense for a Trickster Cleric to be able to impose the Charmed or Poisoned condition with a melee weapon attack. Have it be usable a # of times equal to 1/3 your Cleric levels. The other trade-off for the power of the effect is you only do 1 hit point of damage to that creature when you want to apply the Charmed or Poisoned condition via the feature. And the creature gets to make a WIS or CON saving throw (charmed or poisoned, respectively) every round to end the condition.
That's a fun idea!
How about something like:
Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can force it to take a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you choose whether it is charmed or poisoned until the end of its next turn.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1), regaining all spent uses when you finish a long rest. When you reach 14th-level you regain all uses of this feature when you finish a short rest.
Idea is to try and keep it fairly simple; it's an interesting mix of conditions as well, as charmed is good for protecting yourself, poisoned makes them a lot less danger (and opens them up to Grapple, Shove and similar).
I think that's okay. I understand the aim of simplicity - to help combat flow faster and to reduce the amount of rule bloat. I'm wary, though, that the concept loses some of its theme when the weapon attack used actually was a big wallop. Imagine a Fire Giant being "crit" by a Trickster Cleric who then tries to impose the Charmed condition. Makes it thematically disconnected.
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While I really like the idea of the Trickery Domain in theory as a fun twist on your standard Cleric, I always find it a bit underwhelming when I try to build and play as one. The main problems being that the Cleric spell list just doesn't have a lot of good "trickery" spells, illusion in particular, Cloak of Shadows is a bit weak as a channel divinity (being fully invisible for a round isn't bad but the value seems poor when there are now more ways than ever to get Invisibility thanks to Shadow Touched and similar feats), and Invoke Duplicity while a lot of fun can ruin the action economy.
So I decided to create a modified version of the sub-class, with tweaks to the spell list, the ability to choose from the Bard spell list, and doubling down a bit on Invoke Duplicity.
Trickster deities embody chaos, deception and mischief.
Trickster Domain Spells
In addition to the domain spells shown below, whenever your spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a cantrip or prepare a spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from either the Bard or the Cleric spell lists.
1st
charm person, disguise self
3rd
mirror image, pass without trace
5th
blink, hypnotic pattern
7th
dimension door, polymorph
9th
mislead, modify memory
Blessing of the Trickster
1st-level Trickster Domain feature
You can use your action to touch a willing creature other than yourself to give it advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks. This blessing lasts for 1 hour or until you use this feature again.
Channel Divinity: Invoke Duplicity
2nd-level Trickster Domain feature
You may use your bonus action to create a perfect illusory duplicate of yourself that lasts for 1 minute and occupies your concentration (as if concentrating upon a spell). The illusion appears in an unoccupied space you can see within 30 feet. At the start of each of your turns, you can move the illusion up to 30 feet to a space you can see, but it must remain within 120 feet of you. If the duplicate is ever further than 120 feet from you then it will disappear.
For the duration, you can cast spells as though you were in the illusion’s space, but you must use your own senses. Additionally, when both you and your illusion are within 5 feet of a creature that can see the illusion, you have advantage on attack rolls against that creature, given how distracting the illusion is to the target.
So long as it lasts, the duplicate is totally convincing, and creatures that do not know it is an illusion must assume that it could be the original. If a creature attacks the duplicate it may make an Insight check at the end of its turn against your spell save DC, it may also make this check if it witnesses the duplicate acting strangely. On a success, that creature will realise the duplicate is an illusion, will perceive it as translucent and may choose to ignore it.
Enhanced Duplicity
6th-level Trickster Domain feature
Invoke Duplicity no longer occupies your concentration as if concentrating upon a spell.
In addition, at the start of each of your turns you may choose whether to use your own senses, or those of one of your duplicates. Your duplicates' senses are identical to your own, excluding any conditions that may be currently affecting you.
While occupying a duplicate's senses it has a weak yet tangible presence, enabling you to do the following:
Divine Strike
8th-level Trickster Domain feature
Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d8 poison damage to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8.
Prolonged Duplicity
8th-level Trickster Domain feature
Your Invoke Duplicity now lasts up to 10 minutes.
Supreme Duplicity
17th-level Trickster Domain feature
You can create up to four duplicates, instead of one, when you use Invoke Duplicity. These no longer need to be duplicates of only yourself but can instead be duplicates of any humanoid creature(s) that you can see within 60 feet. Whenever you could move one duplicate you can now move any number of duplicates up to 30 feet each.
In addition, your Invoke Duplicity now lasts up to one hour, however the duration is reduced by 15 minutes for each additional duplicate after the first.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
So long as the Trickery CD requires concentration, it'll remain the worst CD in the game and the subclass will feel underwhelming.
It's a Channel Divinity that creates a completely invincible duplicate that lasts for a full minute (most other CDs are instantaneous) and enables you to cast touch spells against an enemy without ever putting yourself at risk; it may pale in comparison to Twilight's Channel Divinity, but then that's because Twilight's is one of the most blindingly obviously unbalanced features released in years.
I have considered changing how the duplicate functions entirely, but that's a lot more complicated to implement (and balance). For example, if it doesn't occupy concentration then how else is it balanced? Hitpoints and AC? Should it count as a proper creature or function entirely as an illusion? The vanilla duplicate can be a very powerful ability when used properly, so it needs to be balanced carefully. Concentration and action economy do that in the vanilla version, but they present a scaling problem which is why I opted to drop the bonus action to move at 6th level when most other Clerics (and classes) scale out of tier 1. As for the concentration, this is only a problem if you remain a position where you're likely to get hit; the purpose of the duplicate is distraction, if you're just standing out in the open obviously being the real source of the spells its casting then you've done it wrong.
Also "the worst CD in the game", really? I'd argue it's one of the better ones. If you want worst look at Arcana Domain's Arcane Abjuration (Turn Undead for different creature types, but only a single target), or Forge Domain's Artisan's Blessing (create some basic equipment, not terrible, but highly situational and even when you can get the most out of it rarely massive). To be clear, I like both of these domains, but I don't pick them for their channel divinities, whereas Trickster I partly would, I just wish it didn't need a bonus action to move at higher levels (when you've got a lot more you want to use your bonus action for).
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
The problem with the CD is it's Illusion based and Illusion magic is so open to DM interpertation.
To me, if there's a *perfect* illusionary duplicate, enemies shouldn't know to not attack them. Especially if you're doing touch spells from their location
But RAW doesn't force DMs to waste attacks on it. Add gives disadvantage to incoming attack rolls and it's much better
And for the love of god, give Trickery Clerics access to Minor Illusion
And just like with Echo Knights, Trickery Clerics should be able to move it for free at level 2
That sounds like more of an issue with your DM(s); a DM should not need to be forced to treat illusions as convincing, just like they shouldn't be forced to attack something for it to work as a tank. DMs who metagame are not DMs, they're arseholes.
I could add a line that more explicitly sets out how a DM should already be running this feature I guess, something like:
This is pretty much how it should be played already though; when something is described as a "perfect illusion" a DM is already being told that enemies can't just ignore it.
The Insight check isn't strictly RAW already but it's an obvious way to handle it since an enemy wouldn't necessarily immediately realise that their weapons passing through means that the target is an illusion (as opposed to having a weird Shield, some form of etherealness etc.).
Already have; the biggest change in my version is access to the Bard spell list. Not my preferred solution (I really only wanted more illusion spells) but it gives you access to a huge amount of added trickery options.
I'll have a think about how to make the duplicate more well defined without being overly complicated, but I'm not sure Echo Knight is a good point of comparison as it's Critical Role content.
A lot of spells and creature companion type features involve a bonus action to control them; while I want to see that lifted for later levels so your bonus action is being blocked off when competition for it increases, doing that right away seems too soon, as it's still a ranged Inflict Wounds delivery vehicle, making it extremely strong even if your DM is a total dickhead about how they treat the illusion.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
The spell list was perfect man idk what you're talking about. As shown by the fact you only switched out TWO spells from its domain list, and honestly not really for the better imo.
a couple of ideas I had with trickery domain was to at least give it two abilities at first level like the other domains. Here are some that I jostled in my head:
Sly One's Step. If you are wearing armor that gives you disadvantage on Dexterity (stealth) checks, you ignore that penalty. | Optional Add-On: You gain a 5 ft. bonus to your movement speed. | Maybe it let's you choose between the two things instead of giving both or the like?
Bells and Whistles. You gain proficiency in two of your choice: Stealth, Thieves' Tools, Deception, or Sleight of Hand. Additionally, you learn the minor illusion cantrip. The cantrip counts as a cleric cantrip for you and doesn't count against your number of cantrips known.
When you cast minor illusion, you can create both a sound and an image with a single casting of the spell.
As someone who actually plays a trickery cleric, I never use Invoke Duplicity. I've used it ONCE out of combat, and that was it. That's the only time it is useful. As long as it requires concentration I will never use it in combat because it just isn't worth it. There so many better things to concentrate on as a cleric that the fact this costs concentration is ludicrous in all honesty. Why pick THIS over Spirit Guardians? Bless? Shield of Faith? Hold Person? Silence? Spirit Shroud? Banishment? Aura of Vitality?
Now, that's a bit of the thing though. A trickery cleric is better for non-combat scenarios than combat ones (or at least, for their trickster specific stuff. They're still clerics after all.), that's where they shine. But this is a combat focused game, and it's pretty clear Invoke Duplicity was intended to be used in combat (seeing as combat benefits were explicitly given to the ability). But it just doesn't work in combat when it's an actively shit choice for concentration. Invoke Duplicity will only, realistically, work for 1 round at most and then boom. Now the monster knows that thing's an illusion and you got 1 round of use for a 1 minute ability when you could've instead used your action for something meaningful. Like spirit guardians or toll the dead. Or dodging.
But...
Your changes to the ability make it a much more interesting and versatile channel divinity. But you have to wait until the high levels before it even gets good. Would be nice if you could speak through the illusion.
Also why the hell keep divine strike? Divine strike is shit. Especially poison damage! Potent spellcasting definitely fits better and is less useless.
I think Cloak of Shadows should simply be another resource to use instead of getting rid of it or having it be a CD. It shouldn't give Invoke Duplicity competition because then Invoke Duplicity will see even less use. Just let folks use it an amount of times equal to their wisdom mod and it's golden.
I do believe there is a way to give access to all illusion spells on DDB, you might've just missed it. I'll go check for myself and report back.
EDIT: You'd have to add each spell individually.
EDIT 2: To bring this more on-topic and address your specific changes more, I do think giving access to the bard spell list is an AMAZING choice. Honestly, just doing that and this becomes like one of the top 5 at least for cleric subclasses.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Buying the physical books does not entitle you to free digital versions.
The two I swapped out I did-so because they're not necessary with access to the Bard list (you can just take them normally if you want them).
Lots of interesting ideas and good points here!
I'll give it all more of a think, I really need to go through as much of the concentration spells as I can to see the impact of not being concentration would have on Invoke Duplicity, or if there's a better way to balance it; one possibility would be giving the duplicate either durability (hitpoints and AC) so enemies have a way to get rid of it (and prevent you casting through it) once they know it's an illusion.
The alternative is to keep it concentration but allow the trickster to concentrate on it in addition to another spell (so losing concentration will still end both), but I'm concerned it could be too abusable somehow.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
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Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
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So I just wanted to post an update with some of the changes I've made so far; I've been distracted by a load of other homebrew recently so I've mostly focused on the duplicate, with the following changes:
I'd still like to open it up a bit with some other features that aren't all about the duplicate; I'm leaning towards having the duration increase at 6th rather than 8th, and have a bonus feature at 8th to compensate for poison being a generally weaker damage type for Divine Strike. Though it's tricky, as the ability to Divine Strike through a duplicate maybe already balances it a bit?
An alternative might be to move some of Enhanced Duplicity into Invoke Duplicity in the first place, leaving room for something new at 6th?
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
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Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
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Divine Strike is unoriginal and boring. The fact that a Trickery Cleric, out of all the Clerics, also get it just makes it worse.
It would make much more sense for a Trickster Cleric to be able to impose the Charmed or Poisoned condition with a melee weapon attack. Have it be usable a # of times equal to 1/3 your Cleric levels. The other trade-off for the power of the effect is you only do 1 hit point of damage to that creature when you want to apply the Charmed or Poisoned condition via the feature. And the creature gets to make a WIS or CON saving throw (charmed or poisoned, respectively) every round to end the condition.
That's a fun idea!
How about something like:
Idea is to try and keep it fairly simple; it's an interesting mix of conditions as well, as charmed is good for protecting yourself, poisoned makes them a lot less danger (and opens them up to Grapple, Shove and similar).
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
I think that's okay. I understand the aim of simplicity - to help combat flow faster and to reduce the amount of rule bloat. I'm wary, though, that the concept loses some of its theme when the weapon attack used actually was a big wallop. Imagine a Fire Giant being "crit" by a Trickster Cleric who then tries to impose the Charmed condition. Makes it thematically disconnected.