Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Hi team,
Love the new 2024 Cleric overall, but Divine Order choice at level 1 currently feels like a non-choice.
*Problem:*
Protector gives Heavy Armor + Martial Weapons (huge power boost), while Thaumaturge gives 1 extra cantrip + 1d4 to Arcana/Religion. In actual play, Protector has ∼70% pick rate in my groups and on D&D Beyond discussions for this reason. The original playtest Thaumaturge had an extra Channel Divinity, which was removed.
This makes Thaumaturge thematically cool but mechanically underwhelming.
*Proposal - Reworked Thaumaturge:*
> *Divine Order: Thaumaturge (Revised)*
>
> *Miraculous Scholarship:* You gain proficiency in Arcana if you don't have it. When you make an Arcana or Religion check, you can add 1d4 to the roll after seeing the d20 but before knowing the result. PB per Long Rest.
>
> *Minor Miracles:* You learn one additional Cleric cantrip. When you learn Cleric cantrips, you may choose from Cleric, Wizard, or Druid lists, as long as the cantrip deals no damage.
>
> *Rapid Prodigy:* When you cast a Cleric cantrip that deals no damage, requires no attack roll, and doesn't force a hostile creature to make a saving throw, you can cast it as a Bonus Action.
> Examples: Spare the Dying, Resistance, Light, Thaumaturgy, Mending, Message. Does NOT work with Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead, Word of Radiance.
> PB per Long Rest.
*Why this works:*
1. Fixes Thaumaturge identity: Thaumaturge = wonder-worker. Doing minor miracles as a bonus action is flavorful.
2. Fixes Spare the Dying (15ft but still an Action) and Resistance (never used as Action).
3. Balanced: Limited to PB/LR and no damage cantrips, so it doesn't break action economy or compete with Spiritual Weapon.
4. Doesn't buff all Clerics, only Thaumaturge, restoring parity with Protector.
Thanks for considering!
Thaumaturge adds your WIS to Arcana/Religion checks - all the time, no uses per LR. I don't know what you've been reading but it isn't the rules.
Suggest you 86 this idea and check the rules first.
Life's hard - get a helmet!
Yeah mate, Thaumaturge grants one extra Cleric Cantrip and adds WIS mod to Arcana & Religion checks. That should be a +4 to both skills right out the gate, plus whatever your INT mod is and any proficiencies.
Less melee combat power than Protector, but Thaumaturge is obviously meant to setup a caster Cleric and give out-of-combat utility. Skills are a Cleric's weaker areas, so this allows you to be decent to strong in two skills that fit the class, one of which is a Cleric proficiency (Religion), meaning you could be quite good at this. The other (Arcana) can be a pretty important skill, so if your party is lacking this, you can be decent at least.
The extra cantrip doesn't have the same raw potency as Protector, but it does add options, which is helpful early on when you can only choose 3 cantrips to start, only 4 until level 10. Clerics have good cantrips, and they get a strong damage buff at level 7, so they are worth having. You definitely want Guidance and Toll the Dead, but a case could be made for several others: Sacred Flame & Word of Radiance for different saves & more reliable damage type, and then also Light & Mending & Thaumaturgy for utility. It's hard to know which will be more useful, especially since each campaign is different, so having one more to choose from is pretty solid for a level 1 feature.
A couple of thoughts.
The upgrade to heavy armor functionally is a minimal boost... Plate is AC 18, and Half Plate with a dex of 14 is AC 17. IN particular with the option of using a shield for either the AC boost is minimal to non existent (for example if you want to use a two handed martial weapon then you might be in plate, but you won't have a shield).
The upgrade to martial weapons is important at low levels, but becomes gradually less and les important. Simple weapons caps out at 1d6 (1d8 two handed), martial weapons jumps one handed weapons to 1d8 and two handed to 2d6 (or 1d12). So in general 1 point damage increase one handed and up to 2.5 for two handed.
Meanwhile the thaumaturge gets you a bonus cantrip and a nice skill boost to arcana/religion. This means improved casting flexibility and some skill support.
I find these very balanced. In general the two options represent some different playstyles and build types. Protector enables str based clerics who mix it up (particularly at low levels). Thaumaturgy prvoides some nice caster support. At least in my experience I generally don't have a lot of regrets when I make the choice.
I will also point out that Heavy Armors have a minimum Strength requirement to not suffer penalties. In the case of Plate, it is a minimum of 15. That is a heavy investment that many Clerics would rather not make; Constitution and Dexterity will usually be the more desired abilities scores to invest in for Clerics focused on spellcasting.
Good call. A Point Buy for that would likely have 10 for DEX as opposed to likely 14 DEX if you dumped STR. Your CON & everything else could be just as high. The main tradeoff is the benefits of Heavy Armor (and the weapon dmg. boost) vs. the benefits of DEX (initiative, DEX saves, DEX skills).