IMO, everyone ragging on Life Clerics as dull/boring aren't playing them right.
Just because someone is better than someone else at a particular thing doesn't mean they have to focus on that thing. Life Clerics are better at healing when they choose to heal.
My Life Cleric focuses on things that keep my party from getting in trouble in the first place (often needing to save them from themselves). Out of combat, he's a leader, strategist, diplomat, mediator, and therapist. He uses a lot of utility spells (mostly cast as rituals, but not always). A battle avoided is a battle won. In combat, he's a front-line beast. Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and a good 'ol Warhammer & Shield are the usual go-to moves with other combat spells peppered in as appropriate.
I rarely actually use spell slots on healing unless the situation is in danger of spiraling downhill. When I need or want to use a slot on healing, I get the largest return on my investment. If one of my spell slots can heal as much as two slots from another healer, that's an extra slot for me to do whatever else I need/want to do.
It's just my opinion as someone who prefers a sub-class with more nuance and complex ways to help the party/solve the problem. That's why I enjoy illusionists, druids, and bards. I don't like to just hit things with a hammer and cast heal spells. If I were to play a Cleric, it would be Grave or Trickery. You're entitled to your own opinion and to craft your Cleric however you like to, though. And if I were your DM, I would have no opinions on the subject whatsoever b/c it's your right to build your vision of what is fun for you.
IMO, everyone ragging on Life Clerics as dull/boring aren't playing them right.
Just because someone is better than someone else at a particular thing doesn't mean they have to focus on that thing. Life Clerics are better at healing when they choose to heal.
My Life Cleric focuses on things that keep my party from getting in trouble in the first place (often needing to save them from themselves). Out of combat, he's a leader, strategist, diplomat, mediator, and therapist. He uses a lot of utility spells (mostly cast as rituals, but not always). A battle avoided is a battle won. In combat, he's a front-line beast. Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and a good 'ol Warhammer & Shield are the usual go-to moves with other combat spells peppered in as appropriate.
I rarely actually use spell slots on healing unless the situation is in danger of spiraling downhill. When I need or want to use a slot on healing, I get the largest return on my investment. If one of my spell slots can heal as much as two slots from another healer, that's an extra slot for me to do whatever else I need/want to do.
It's just my opinion as someone who prefers a sub-class with more nuance and complex ways to help the party/solve the problem. That's why I enjoy illusionists, druids, and bards. I don't like to just hit things with a hammer and cast heal spells.
This is why I say Life Cleric is being played wrong. You assume all I do is smash & heal when I was clear that those are my last options.
Sub-class features (Domain) for Cleric don't change the core of Cleric so much as to cut off or develop entirely different options for play style. The largest single difference is whether you have a domain that gives Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike. Cantrip damage or melee weapon damage? While there are lots of interesting features & channel divinity uses, everything is more or less the same. There's no single domain that completely changes how the Cleric plays, although Arcana & Trickery do offer the most differentiation in overall possibilities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This is why I say Life Cleric is being played wrong. You assume all I do is smash & heal when I was clear that those are my last options.
Sub-class features (Domain) for Cleric don't change the core of Cleric so much as to cut off or develop entirely different options for play style. The largest single difference is whether you have a domain that gives Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike. Cantrip damage or melee weapon damage? While there are lots of interesting features & channel divinity uses, everything is more or less the same. There's no single domain that completely changes how the Cleric plays, although Arcana & Trickery do offer the most differentiation in overall possibilities.
All the options that you mentioned that Life Clerics can do, most other Cleric domains can also do. Life Domain spells are all Cleric spells, aren't they? The singular aspect that stands out for the Life Cleric are its bonuses to heal spells and the Preserve Life ability is like a heal spell. The only non-heal feature is Divine Strike for radiant damage.
If healing involved more meaningful choices for me as a player, perhaps I would be inclined to pick this sub-class. As rules currently stand, a domain that distinguishes itself based on more healing just doesn't offer me much compared to other domains out there b/c I like having a variety of options to address a variety of obstacles.
This is why I say Life Cleric is being played wrong. You assume all I do is smash & heal when I was clear that those are my last options.
Sub-class features (Domain) for Cleric don't change the core of Cleric so much as to cut off or develop entirely different options for play style. The largest single difference is whether you have a domain that gives Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike. Cantrip damage or melee weapon damage? While there are lots of interesting features & channel divinity uses, everything is more or less the same. There's no single domain that completely changes how the Cleric plays, although Arcana & Trickery do offer the most differentiation in overall possibilities.
All the options that you mentioned that Life Clerics can do, most other Cleric domains can also do. Life Domain spells are all Cleric spells, aren't they? The singular aspect that stands out for the Life Cleric are its bonuses to heal spells and the Preserve Life ability is like a heal spell. The only non-heal feature is Divine Strike for radiant damage.
If healing involved more meaningful choices for me as a player, perhaps I would be inclined to pick this sub-class. As rules currently stand, a domain that distinguishes itself based on more healing just doesn't offer me much compared to other domains out there b/c I like having a variety of options to address a variety of obstacles.
See this is kind of my issue. I personally want a bit more variety in what I'm doing with casters. Life clerics to me just have the various basic cleric tactics at their disposal. they don't have spells that other clerics don't normally get. They're features don't really feel like much of anything special. yes they have extra healing but that doesn't usually make me feel like I'm doing something all that unique. That's why I compared them to Champion Fighters. it's not that they aren't good and that their powers aren't useful. it's a matter of perception and personal play style. I tend to like my magic users to have their magic to reflect their style. Where as with fighters I'm used to fighting being what they can do and their style being all about me and the way I describe things and the tactics that I use instead of relying on their powers because I grew up with them being light on powers and abilitites to begin with.
This is why I say Life Cleric is being played wrong. You assume all I do is smash & heal when I was clear that those are my last options.
Sub-class features (Domain) for Cleric don't change the core of Cleric so much as to cut off or develop entirely different options for play style. The largest single difference is whether you have a domain that gives Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike. Cantrip damage or melee weapon damage? While there are lots of interesting features & channel divinity uses, everything is more or less the same. There's no single domain that completely changes how the Cleric plays, although Arcana & Trickery do offer the most differentiation in overall possibilities.
All the options that you mentioned that Life Clerics can do, most other Cleric domains can also do. Life Domain spells are all Cleric spells, aren't they? The singular aspect that stands out for the Life Cleric are its bonuses to heal spells and the Preserve Life ability is like a heal spell. The only non-heal feature is Divine Strike for radiant damage.
If healing involved more meaningful choices for me as a player, perhaps I would be inclined to pick this sub-class. As rules currently stand, a domain that distinguishes itself based on more healing just doesn't offer me much compared to other domains out there b/c I like having a variety of options to address a variety of obstacles.
That's what I'm talking about. Most Cleric domains can do everything that the other domains do. The differentiation between the core Cleric and the domain specific features/spells is minimal.
All Clerics get the entire Cleric spell list. That is a vastassortment of spells from every school of magic which can support any play style by default. Life Clerics don't have to focus on healing. Life Clerics shouldn't have to focus on healing unless something's already gone horribly wrong. Knowing that my healing capability is maximized allows me to tap into the utility of the core Cleric's vast toolkit far more regularly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This is why I say Life Cleric is being played wrong. You assume all I do is smash & heal when I was clear that those are my last options.
Sub-class features (Domain) for Cleric don't change the core of Cleric so much as to cut off or develop entirely different options for play style. The largest single difference is whether you have a domain that gives Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike. Cantrip damage or melee weapon damage? While there are lots of interesting features & channel divinity uses, everything is more or less the same. There's no single domain that completely changes how the Cleric plays, although Arcana & Trickery do offer the most differentiation in overall possibilities.
All the options that you mentioned that Life Clerics can do, most other Cleric domains can also do. Life Domain spells are all Cleric spells, aren't they? The singular aspect that stands out for the Life Cleric are its bonuses to heal spells and the Preserve Life ability is like a heal spell. The only non-heal feature is Divine Strike for radiant damage.
If healing involved more meaningful choices for me as a player, perhaps I would be inclined to pick this sub-class. As rules currently stand, a domain that distinguishes itself based on more healing just doesn't offer me much compared to other domains out there b/c I like having a variety of options to address a variety of obstacles.
That's what I'm talking about. Most Cleric domains can do everything that the other domains do. The differentiation between the core Cleric and the domain specific features/spells is minimal.
All Clerics get the entire Cleric spell list. That is a vastassortment of spells from every school of magic which can support any play style by default. Life Clerics don't have to focus on healing. Life Clerics shouldn't have to focus on healing unless something's already gone horribly wrong. Knowing that my healing capability is maximized allows me to tap into the utility of the core Cleric's vast toolkit far more regularly.
I'm not talking about the vast assortment. A trickery domain cleric for example has spells and powers that no other cleric of a different domain has. Same with most Domains. Life clerics for the most part. All they do is make the numbers a bit bigger for something that ALL clerics not only can but actually do on a regular basis without anything extra that other domains DO NOT do.
Arcane Domain clerics? They have their choice of Wizard Spells that no other Cleric can get and the ability to gain more damage on their cleric cantrips(including the two wizard ones they gain). And they can heal plus do a limited Dispel magic at the same time.
Forge Clerics? They get bonuses to their Defense. Some interesting thematic spells on tap always. And not only resistance but eventually immunity to fire damage. Something that almost no other class feature can claim.
Grave Clerics? Utility to help save downed characters (The moment where things are really going wrong), Improvement to cantrip damage, and the ability to block Crits within certain limits, and eventually an ability to spread about some healing to the party just for enemies dying to the party with certain limits.
Knowledge Domain? Let's face it. They are pretty narrowly focused but they are very good at gathering information and they are given a bunch of ways to do that. Something more often done by mages.
Light Clerics? They are good at imposing Disadvantage in fights. And they have increasing ways to do that and some extra bonuses. This may lead to more enemies missing their attacks. Not to mention they Get fireball and a couple other often coveted Mage spells.
Nature Clerics? Well these are the almost druids. But they have one ability that I really like starting at 6th level. If they are willing to spend their reaction they can give people resistance to elemental types of damage for a single attack. And as a little extra kick they can tailor their divine strike damage a bit to try and avoid it being resisted.
Tempest Clerics? Some nice druid and wizard spells that can be nicely useful. The ability to enhance thunder and lightning spells with maximized damage, A push (potentially on top of spells that already have a push), retaliatory damage for getting hit, and eventually the ability to fly whenever outside.
Trickery Clerics? Mirror Image and Blink alone are strong. Let alone the ability to turn invisible, charm things, and the seeming existance of multiples of yourself.
War Clerics? Pretty straight forward. They influence the ability to hit enemies in combat for the most part and they have the ability to attack twice some of the time.
All of these powers depending on your style can be more interesting and fun than "I heal a little bit more" in a lot of players minds and I accept that. It doesn't make life clerics bad in any way what so ever. Extra healing can be a good thing, But at the same time. It's not strikingly special. Even their domain specific channel divinity is just another healing effect. For all of this healing they really should have more utility spells at hand just as a matter of course because they don't need to try and remember to keep healing spells in their readied spells list. The same goes with spells to bring party members back to life. They are in their spell list. they don't need to decide between having those spells on hand or not like any other cleric. They just have them always there. And why do they have these things and this one advantage when it comes to their spell lists? It's because they are already focused on healing. Even if you don't like the fact that they are and don't want them to be looked on that way. That's the reality of it. They can do other things because they are focused on healing. Any other Domain cleric does other things and has to remember to get the healing consciously mixed in.
All of these powers depending on your style can be more interesting and fun than "I heal a little bit more" in a lot of players minds and I accept that. It doesn't make life clerics bad in any way what so ever. Extra healing can be a good thing, But at the same time. It's not strikingly special. Even their domain specific channel divinity is just another healing effect. For all of this healing they really should have more utility spells at hand just as a matter of course because they don't need to try and remember to keep healing spells in their readied spells list. The same goes with spells to bring party members back to life. They are in their spell list. they don't need to decide between having those spells on hand or not like any other cleric. They just have them always there. And why do they have these things and this one advantage when it comes to their spell lists? It's because they are already focused on healing. Even if you don't like the fact that they are and don't want them to be looked on that way. That's the reality of it. They can do other things because they are focused on healing. Any other Domain cleric does other things and has to remember to get the healing consciously mixed in.
It's almost like you guys are actively ignoring what I say, and trying to put words in my mouth.
This is what I've been saying all along: Life Clerics have the freedom to choose a diverse array of spells to fit an individual play style/scenario--customizable every day--because they know their healing capability is always covered.
A Life Cleric does not equal a heal-bot. Of course that would be boring to play! If your benchmark for whether a particular domain is fun/interesting/good/whatever is based on a narrowly focused play style, and not how it impacts the total package of possibilities, I view that as not just playing a particular domain of Cleric wrong; I view that as playing Cleric wrong. I view that as figuratively missing the forest for the trees.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I think most of us feel that YOU are missing the point.
Why pick a Domain that obviously boosts a particular aspect, and then chose to use other abilities and a play style that doesn't maximize that chosen aspect?
I don't seek to use my spell slots on healing, but when I do? Getting two slots worth of healing out of a single slot means I have more resources to work with during an in-game day.
Utility
Healing spells are something that almost every Cleric is going to prepare no matter what, regardless of their usage, so now I have that completely covered. The Life domain list has the least number of spells that I don't care about.
Core Cleric has a HUGE list of utility spells that you do not need a specific domain to utilize well.
I get to prepare what I actually wantto prepare, and my total # of useful prepared spells is maximized.
Some of the utility spells of specific domains are indeed awesome, and there's nothing wrong with playing them. I've never said there is. What is wrong is looking at Life and thinking, "Oh, I don't wanna be a healbot, so this is worthless." It couldn't be further from the truth.
When I look at the Cleric class as a whole, I don't think to myself, "Neat, okay how do I focus this Cleric on other things?" I think, "Wow, there is so much awesome stuff here that can allow me to fill literally any role, and a way to respond to any situation! How do I get more of that? Ahh, Life."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
@Sigred There is nothing wrong with your play style. I never said there was and I don't get the impression that others here are saying that. I also never said that there is anything dysfunctional or inefficient about the Life Cleric (unlike some sub-classes we are familiar with...glances at PHB's BM Ranger). For playing a melee healer, Life Cleric is quite good. This is, almost to a tee, what 1st edition AD&D designers envisioned as the prototypical Cleric. This is why Life Cleric is part of the default available sub-class list playable form DnD Beyond without any add-on purchases. Nothing wrong with that. It's just that some players don't find this to be Amazing Fun compared to other domain options already published, which don't fit as neatly into the archetype of what brand Cleric stands for. To borrow a bit from wordsmiths more lexical than I: "You do you, I'll do me."
Most domains gain abilities that the base cleric doesn't have. Life domain clerics focus on doing what all clerics have in common, but better than any other cleric is able.
Instead of being cleric+rogue, cleric+druid, cleric+Wizard, or cleric+fighter, life domains are cleric+MoarCleric. They are the best at being clerics, and doing what clerics do.
All of these powers depending on your style can be more interesting and fun than "I heal a little bit more" in a lot of players minds and I accept that. It doesn't make life clerics bad in any way what so ever. Extra healing can be a good thing, But at the same time. It's not strikingly special. Even their domain specific channel divinity is just another healing effect. For all of this healing they really should have more utility spells at hand just as a matter of course because they don't need to try and remember to keep healing spells in their readied spells list. The same goes with spells to bring party members back to life. They are in their spell list. they don't need to decide between having those spells on hand or not like any other cleric. They just have them always there. And why do they have these things and this one advantage when it comes to their spell lists? It's because they are already focused on healing. Even if you don't like the fact that they are and don't want them to be looked on that way. That's the reality of it. They can do other things because they are focused on healing. Any other Domain cleric does other things and has to remember to get the healing consciously mixed in.
It's almost like you guys are actively ignoring what I say, and trying to put words in my mouth.
This is what I've been saying all along: Life Clerics have the freedom to choose a diverse array of spells to fit an individual play style/scenario--customizable every day--because they know their healing capability is always covered.
A Life Cleric does not equal a heal-bot. Of course that would be boring to play! If your benchmark for whether a particular domain is fun/interesting/good/whatever is based on a narrowly focused play style, and not how it impacts the total package of possibilities, I view that as not just playing a particular domain of Cleric wrong; I view that as playing Cleric wrong. I view that as figuratively missing the forest for the trees.
No. It's more that your ignoring anything that is said about life clerics that doesn't basically equate to. "Life Clerics are the Best!" you got offended and demanded that we not call them boring or talk bad about them. Highlighting only very key pieces of my sentences to try to rearrange them to say what you want does not take away what I have said in that There is nothing different, special, or even unexpected but are instead very straight forward and very basically cleric when it comes to the Life Domain.
I don't seek to use my spell slots on healing, but when I do? Getting two slots worth of healing out of a single slot means I have more resources to work with during an in-game day.
Utility
Healing spells are something that almost every Cleric is going to prepare no matter what, regardless of their usage, so now I have that completely covered. The Life domain list has the least number of spells that I don't care about.
Core Cleric has a HUGE list of utility spells that you do not need a specific domain to utilize well.
I get to prepare what I actually wantto prepare, and my total # of useful prepared spells is maximized.
Some of the utility spells of specific domains are indeed awesome, and there's nothing wrong with playing them. I've never said there is. What is wrong is looking at Life and thinking, "Oh, I don't wanna be a healbot, so this is worthless." It couldn't be further from the truth.
When I look at the Cleric class as a whole, I don't think to myself, "Neat, okay how do I focus this Cleric on other things?" I think, "Wow, there is so much awesome stuff here that can allow me to fill literally any role, and a way to respond to any situation! How do I get more of that? Ahh, Life."
Your Definition of The healing efficiency for most of the leveling of a Life Domain Cleric is a bit of a fallacy. You are not guaranteed to get double the amount of healing with anything but a first or second level healing spell cast by a mid to high level life cleric(healing word being the lowest level one that you can manage and that is done between levels 6 and 9 depending on your spell casting modifier assuming you roll the maximum of 4 on the dice and cast it as a level 1 spell). And your not actually guaranteed it even over level 17. your guaranteed over the average but for somebody that rolls well your not getting nearly the efficiency your declaring. There is also the fact that certain healing spells actually have set healing amounts which means what your adding onto those particular high level spells may only be 20hp of extra healing. which when it comes to Something like the heal spell which does 70hp at it's 6th level base casting your only going to at max push it up to 90 healing. That is less than half and the percentage that your going to heal above what others heal with that particular spell actually gets lower. Because it adds a flat 10hp for a maximum of 30 more hp and maxing out at 100hp by any other cleric and your going to manage to do it at 120hp.
Fateless, it's analogy man. I get more healing out of whatever slot I use. Being able to get roughly the same output out of using a spell at a lower spell slot level than a non-Life Cleric still equates to higher efficiency of spell slot utilization.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
And all your features of Life Domain are committed to healing mechanics even though you say you aren't a healbot and regularly use other tactics. When you choose to heal it's strong, when you aren't healing regularly, your features aren't doing a thing.
That's why I started this thread about Grave Cleric in the first place, the features apply if you heal, if you dps, if you support and if you or someone else gets hit.
You're not listening. All I'm trying to say is that Life doesn't suck just because the features are all healing oriented. That none of you can see the true value of these features beyond that +X to heals is mind-boggling, but I'm done trying explain integrals to wolves.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It became about Life Clerics when everyone started putting them down.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Each Cleric Domain has different features and Channel Divinities to help what they're good at. Life is better at healing than most domains. Grave will stabilize you and prevent you from death.
This does not mean that each domain should entirely cater to what it's good at, even if it's bad at that thing.
I love this domain, just for flavor reasons. My grave domain cleric is half drow, and worships the spirits of her ancestors. I just really like the idea of being the one who watches out for the dead and the dying, puts wandering spirits to rest, destroys the undead, etc. Any class can be good mechanically, but I love when I really get inspired on the backstory and rp side of things. Since the spells really don't give a way to ease the suffering of the dying like the description says you do, my DM and I actually came up with a little homebrewed class feature. It's called Peaceful Passage. It lets me relieve the pain of a dying creature if I can't or choose not to heal it (for rp purposes only).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It's just my opinion as someone who prefers a sub-class with more nuance and complex ways to help the party/solve the problem. That's why I enjoy illusionists, druids, and bards. I don't like to just hit things with a hammer and cast heal spells. If I were to play a Cleric, it would be Grave or Trickery. You're entitled to your own opinion and to craft your Cleric however you like to, though. And if I were your DM, I would have no opinions on the subject whatsoever b/c it's your right to build your vision of what is fun for you.
This is why I say Life Cleric is being played wrong. You assume all I do is smash & heal when I was clear that those are my last options.
Sub-class features (Domain) for Cleric don't change the core of Cleric so much as to cut off or develop entirely different options for play style. The largest single difference is whether you have a domain that gives Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike. Cantrip damage or melee weapon damage? While there are lots of interesting features & channel divinity uses, everything is more or less the same. There's no single domain that completely changes how the Cleric plays, although Arcana & Trickery do offer the most differentiation in overall possibilities.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
All the options that you mentioned that Life Clerics can do, most other Cleric domains can also do. Life Domain spells are all Cleric spells, aren't they? The singular aspect that stands out for the Life Cleric are its bonuses to heal spells and the Preserve Life ability is like a heal spell. The only non-heal feature is Divine Strike for radiant damage.
If healing involved more meaningful choices for me as a player, perhaps I would be inclined to pick this sub-class. As rules currently stand, a domain that distinguishes itself based on more healing just doesn't offer me much compared to other domains out there b/c I like having a variety of options to address a variety of obstacles.
See this is kind of my issue. I personally want a bit more variety in what I'm doing with casters. Life clerics to me just have the various basic cleric tactics at their disposal. they don't have spells that other clerics don't normally get. They're features don't really feel like much of anything special. yes they have extra healing but that doesn't usually make me feel like I'm doing something all that unique. That's why I compared them to Champion Fighters. it's not that they aren't good and that their powers aren't useful. it's a matter of perception and personal play style. I tend to like my magic users to have their magic to reflect their style. Where as with fighters I'm used to fighting being what they can do and their style being all about me and the way I describe things and the tactics that I use instead of relying on their powers because I grew up with them being light on powers and abilitites to begin with.
That's what I'm talking about. Most Cleric domains can do everything that the other domains do. The differentiation between the core Cleric and the domain specific features/spells is minimal.
All Clerics get the entire Cleric spell list. That is a vast assortment of spells from every school of magic which can support any play style by default. Life Clerics don't have to focus on healing. Life Clerics shouldn't have to focus on healing unless something's already gone horribly wrong. Knowing that my healing capability is maximized allows me to tap into the utility of the core Cleric's vast toolkit far more regularly.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm not talking about the vast assortment. A trickery domain cleric for example has spells and powers that no other cleric of a different domain has. Same with most Domains. Life clerics for the most part. All they do is make the numbers a bit bigger for something that ALL clerics not only can but actually do on a regular basis without anything extra that other domains DO NOT do.
Arcane Domain clerics? They have their choice of Wizard Spells that no other Cleric can get and the ability to gain more damage on their cleric cantrips(including the two wizard ones they gain). And they can heal plus do a limited Dispel magic at the same time.
Forge Clerics? They get bonuses to their Defense. Some interesting thematic spells on tap always. And not only resistance but eventually immunity to fire damage. Something that almost no other class feature can claim.
Grave Clerics? Utility to help save downed characters (The moment where things are really going wrong), Improvement to cantrip damage, and the ability to block Crits within certain limits, and eventually an ability to spread about some healing to the party just for enemies dying to the party with certain limits.
Knowledge Domain? Let's face it. They are pretty narrowly focused but they are very good at gathering information and they are given a bunch of ways to do that. Something more often done by mages.
Light Clerics? They are good at imposing Disadvantage in fights. And they have increasing ways to do that and some extra bonuses. This may lead to more enemies missing their attacks. Not to mention they Get fireball and a couple other often coveted Mage spells.
Nature Clerics? Well these are the almost druids. But they have one ability that I really like starting at 6th level. If they are willing to spend their reaction they can give people resistance to elemental types of damage for a single attack. And as a little extra kick they can tailor their divine strike damage a bit to try and avoid it being resisted.
Tempest Clerics? Some nice druid and wizard spells that can be nicely useful. The ability to enhance thunder and lightning spells with maximized damage, A push (potentially on top of spells that already have a push), retaliatory damage for getting hit, and eventually the ability to fly whenever outside.
Trickery Clerics? Mirror Image and Blink alone are strong. Let alone the ability to turn invisible, charm things, and the seeming existance of multiples of yourself.
War Clerics? Pretty straight forward. They influence the ability to hit enemies in combat for the most part and they have the ability to attack twice some of the time.
All of these powers depending on your style can be more interesting and fun than "I heal a little bit more" in a lot of players minds and I accept that. It doesn't make life clerics bad in any way what so ever. Extra healing can be a good thing, But at the same time. It's not strikingly special. Even their domain specific channel divinity is just another healing effect. For all of this healing they really should have more utility spells at hand just as a matter of course because they don't need to try and remember to keep healing spells in their readied spells list. The same goes with spells to bring party members back to life. They are in their spell list. they don't need to decide between having those spells on hand or not like any other cleric. They just have them always there. And why do they have these things and this one advantage when it comes to their spell lists? It's because they are already focused on healing. Even if you don't like the fact that they are and don't want them to be looked on that way. That's the reality of it. They can do other things because they are focused on healing. Any other Domain cleric does other things and has to remember to get the healing consciously mixed in.
It's almost like you guys are actively ignoring what I say, and trying to put words in my mouth.
This is what I've been saying all along: Life Clerics have the freedom to choose a diverse array of spells to fit an individual play style/scenario--customizable every day--because they know their healing capability is always covered.
A Life Cleric does not equal a heal-bot. Of course that would be boring to play! If your benchmark for whether a particular domain is fun/interesting/good/whatever is based on a narrowly focused play style, and not how it impacts the total package of possibilities, I view that as not just playing a particular domain of Cleric wrong; I view that as playing Cleric wrong. I view that as figuratively missing the forest for the trees.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I think most of us feel that YOU are missing the point.
Why pick a Domain that obviously boosts a particular aspect, and then chose to use other abilities and a play style that doesn't maximize that chosen aspect?
I feel that I've been abundantly clear:
Some of the utility spells of specific domains are indeed awesome, and there's nothing wrong with playing them. I've never said there is. What is wrong is looking at Life and thinking, "Oh, I don't wanna be a healbot, so this is worthless." It couldn't be further from the truth.
When I look at the Cleric class as a whole, I don't think to myself, "Neat, okay how do I focus this Cleric on other things?" I think, "Wow, there is so much awesome stuff here that can allow me to fill literally any role, and a way to respond to any situation! How do I get more of that? Ahh, Life."
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
@Sigred There is nothing wrong with your play style. I never said there was and I don't get the impression that others here are saying that. I also never said that there is anything dysfunctional or inefficient about the Life Cleric (unlike some sub-classes we are familiar with...glances at PHB's BM Ranger). For playing a melee healer, Life Cleric is quite good. This is, almost to a tee, what 1st edition AD&D designers envisioned as the prototypical Cleric. This is why Life Cleric is part of the default available sub-class list playable form DnD Beyond without any add-on purchases. Nothing wrong with that. It's just that some players don't find this to be Amazing Fun compared to other domain options already published, which don't fit as neatly into the archetype of what brand Cleric stands for. To borrow a bit from wordsmiths more lexical than I: "You do you, I'll do me."
Most domains gain abilities that the base cleric doesn't have. Life domain clerics focus on doing what all clerics have in common, but better than any other cleric is able.
Instead of being cleric+rogue, cleric+druid, cleric+Wizard, or cleric+fighter, life domains are cleric+MoarCleric. They are the best at being clerics, and doing what clerics do.
No. It's more that your ignoring anything that is said about life clerics that doesn't basically equate to. "Life Clerics are the Best!" you got offended and demanded that we not call them boring or talk bad about them. Highlighting only very key pieces of my sentences to try to rearrange them to say what you want does not take away what I have said in that There is nothing different, special, or even unexpected but are instead very straight forward and very basically cleric when it comes to the Life Domain.
Your Definition of The healing efficiency for most of the leveling of a Life Domain Cleric is a bit of a fallacy. You are not guaranteed to get double the amount of healing with anything but a first or second level healing spell cast by a mid to high level life cleric(healing word being the lowest level one that you can manage and that is done between levels 6 and 9 depending on your spell casting modifier assuming you roll the maximum of 4 on the dice and cast it as a level 1 spell). And your not actually guaranteed it even over level 17. your guaranteed over the average but for somebody that rolls well your not getting nearly the efficiency your declaring. There is also the fact that certain healing spells actually have set healing amounts which means what your adding onto those particular high level spells may only be 20hp of extra healing. which when it comes to Something like the heal spell which does 70hp at it's 6th level base casting your only going to at max push it up to 90 healing. That is less than half and the percentage that your going to heal above what others heal with that particular spell actually gets lower. Because it adds a flat 10hp for a maximum of 30 more hp and maxing out at 100hp by any other cleric and your going to manage to do it at 120hp.
Fateless, it's analogy man. I get more healing out of whatever slot I use. Being able to get roughly the same output out of using a spell at a lower spell slot level than a non-Life Cleric still equates to higher efficiency of spell slot utilization.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
And all your features of Life Domain are committed to healing mechanics even though you say you aren't a healbot and regularly use other tactics. When you choose to heal it's strong, when you aren't healing regularly, your features aren't doing a thing.
That's why I started this thread about Grave Cleric in the first place, the features apply if you heal, if you dps, if you support and if you or someone else gets hit.
You're not listening. All I'm trying to say is that Life doesn't suck just because the features are all healing oriented. That none of you can see the true value of these features beyond that +X to heals is mind-boggling, but I'm done trying explain integrals to wolves.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This thread isn't about Life Clerics.
It became about Life Clerics when everyone started putting them down.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Each Cleric Domain has different features and Channel Divinities to help what they're good at. Life is better at healing than most domains. Grave will stabilize you and prevent you from death.
This does not mean that each domain should entirely cater to what it's good at, even if it's bad at that thing.
Dungeons and Dragons is meant to be creative.
You can do what ever you want with each class.
YOU CAN DO ANYTHING. IT DOES NOT MATTER.
I love this domain, just for flavor reasons. My grave domain cleric is half drow, and worships the spirits of her ancestors. I just really like the idea of being the one who watches out for the dead and the dying, puts wandering spirits to rest, destroys the undead, etc. Any class can be good mechanically, but I love when I really get inspired on the backstory and rp side of things. Since the spells really don't give a way to ease the suffering of the dying like the description says you do, my DM and I actually came up with a little homebrewed class feature. It's called Peaceful Passage. It lets me relieve the pain of a dying creature if I can't or choose not to heal it (for rp purposes only).