Just wondering if there are additional references to consider when deciding whether a harengon druid can use their rabbit hop ability while in a wildshape of a form of beast.
Rules for wildshape include that: "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense."
Harengon Traits
As a harengon, you have the following racial traits.
Creature Type
You are a Humanoid.
Size
You are Medium or Small. You choose the size when you select this race.
Speed
Your walking speed is 30 feet.
Hare-Trigger
You can add your proficiency bonus to your initiative rolls.
When you fail a Dexterity saving throw, you can use your reaction to roll a d4 and add it to the save, potentially turning the failure into a success. You can’t use this reaction if you’re prone or your speed is 0.
Rabbit Hop
As a bonus action, you can jump a number of feet equal to five times your proficiency bonus, without provoking opportunity attacks. You can use this trait only if your speed is greater than 0. You can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Questions can clearly be raised as to the nature of the harengon's abilities such as rabbit hop and to the extent to which these capabilities are dependent on the harengon physical form.
Are there other relevant references to look at on this? What rulings would work?
Agreed with Brian.. it's up to your DM... but because it's a Racial feature, I don't think it's meant to carry over, so same way decision or other Racial sense dont carry over
Agreed with Brian.. it's up to your DM... but because it's a Racial feature, I don't think it's meant to carry over, so same way decision or other Racial sense dont carry over
The wild shape rule actually specifies race features as among those that can carry over.
The important stipulation is the "physically capable of doing so" part, which prevents you from turning into a horse and then carrying on with your day job repairing pocket watches. 😂
In this specific case it'd be up to your DM, but I'd say that it heavily depends on the type of beast you're turning into; having legs is not the same as having the right type of legs for performing a rabbit hop, so you might end up limited to still being some form of rabbit, or maybe a kangaroo or similar. I wouldn't expect to be able to bunny hop as a bear… well, you could, but I don't think it would receive the benefit of your Harengon racial trait.
I think the intent is that "physically capable" means that if a racial trait is specific to physiology (like a leap) then it would not carry over when your physical body changes. I would imagine it is your rabbit like legs that allow you to leap and not your leporine intuition.
RAW a Druid can use any of it's racial trait while Wild Shaped if the new form is physically capable of doing so yes a druid in beast form capable of jumping should be able to Rabbit Hop.
...if the new form is physically capable of doing so...
And there's the rub, is it not? The reason why Harengon can do the Rabbit Hop is because it's physically set up to do so. The legs are almost purpose built in order to do rabbit hops. Therefore, it could easily be argued that any creature that doesn't already have a similar setup for their legs (the vast majority) doesn't qualify.
The problem is that most racial features are based physical features. Therefore, how do you interpret "physically capable", since that seems like it's basically saying no?
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...if the new form is physically capable of doing so...
And there's the rub, is it not? The reason why Harengon can do the Rabbit Hop is because it's physically set up to do so. The legs are almost purpose built in order to do rabbit hops. Therefore, it could easily be argued that any creature that doesn't already have a similar setup for their legs (the vast majority) doesn't qualify.
The problem is that most racial features are based physical features. Therefore, how do you interpret "physically capable", since that seems like it's basically saying no?
I interpret physically capable of doing so as having a physical that can do it, not necessarily perfectly though. So anything with legs that can jump so a serpent would not be able.
If we require perfect physical match, most racial traits will never be usable unless the new beast form is physically identical.
Two problems: 1) It is your interpretation, so other DMs might interpret things differently. 2) "Physically capable" is vague. In fact, all of wild shape is problematically vague. But we know that simply having eyes isn't enough for, say, something like darkvision to carry over. We also know that having a mouth isn't enough for having your languages carry over. No reason to assume that simply having legs is enough for your jump to carry over. Do loxodon druids get to carry over their natural armor? Is having skin enough to have that trait carry over? It depends on the DM.
Two problems: 1) It is your interpretation, so other DMs might interpret things differently. 2) "Physically capable" is vague. In fact, all of wild shape is problematically vague. But we know that simply having eyes isn't enough for, say, something like darkvision to carry over. We also know that having a mouth isn't enough for having your languages carry over. No reason to assume that simply having legs is enough for your jump to carry over. Do loxodon druids get to carry over their natural armor? Is having skin enough to have that trait carry over? It depends on the DM.
As per Sage Advice, your language are always carried over, but only usable as long you the new form can speak. It is a great exemple of physically capable of doing something while not perfectly a physical match. Having some form of mouth and being able to speak let you use any known languages, just like having some legs and being able to jump could let you use Rabbit Hop. It is my interpretation of the rules as written. You are absolutely right other DM can rule otherwise.
In a Dragon Talk podcast on Druid Wild Shape (5:40) Jeremy Crawford mention not physically capable when it ''lacks anatomy'' for it. More precisely ''You are limited by the anatomy of the creature you transform into''' At 20:31 mark ''now this is very open ended and we were very purposeful in being this open ended because there's so many type of animals you can turn into if we got too specific we would end up far too restrictive than we intend to be and really the message i want to give is this rule is written in a spirit of permissiveness. We actually want to to be able to use as many of your race and class features as possible with a limit more on narrative than game balance''
So if the new form has anatomy that let's it jump or speak, you should be able to still do so since Rabbit Hop doesn't specifically require the anatomy of rabbit legs. The Devs mention he would allow a dragonborn use its breath if the new form has a mouth. He mention some classes' Unarmored Armor and other Natural armor are still usable, you use the highest AC value between yours and the new form. So physically capable is intentionally permissive and open ended.
Can a Circle of the Moon druid speak the languages it knows while in the form of an elemental? Yes, since the elementals listed in Elemental Wild Shape can speak. A literal interpretation (RAW) of Wild Shape could reasonably lead you to think that transformed druids can speak only languages that appear in an elemental’s stat block, but the intent (RAI) is that druids retain their knowledge, including of languages, when they transform and can speak the languages they know if an adopted form can speak.
But anyway, that is a bit beyond the point. Your response only provided opinion again. A vague rule and opinion for guidance only leaves DM discretion as the final say.
But the literally says that it is incapable of speaking those languages, and wild shape only allows you to do things that the new form is capable of. Now you are throwing the rules out the window.
But the literally says that it is incapable of speaking those languages, and wild shape only allows you to do things that the new form is capable of. Now you are throwing the rules out the window.
Which rule am i throwing out the window? The official ruling in Sage Advice clearly say Druids can speak the languages they know if an adopted form can speak.
But anyway, that is a bit beyond the point. Your response only provided opinion again. A vague rule and opinion for guidance only leaves DM discretion as the final say.
I'm offering guidance from official sources, my response refers to the Devs opinion in a podcast and official rulings in Sage Advice. Nothing vague here.
DM discretion as the final say in any situation.
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Just wondering if there are additional references to consider when deciding whether a harengon druid can use their rabbit hop ability while in a wildshape of a form of beast.
Rules for wildshape include that:
"You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense."
Harengon Traits
As a harengon, you have the following racial traits.
Creature Type
You are a Humanoid.
Size
You are Medium or Small. You choose the size when you select this race.
Speed
Your walking speed is 30 feet.
Hare-Trigger
You can add your proficiency bonus to your initiative rolls.
Leporine Senses
You have proficiency in the Perception skill.
Lucky Footwork
When you fail a Dexterity saving throw, you can use your reaction to roll a d4 and add it to the save, potentially turning the failure into a success. You can’t use this reaction if you’re prone or your speed is 0.
Rabbit Hop
As a bonus action, you can jump a number of feet equal to five times your proficiency bonus, without provoking opportunity attacks. You can use this trait only if your speed is greater than 0. You can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Questions can clearly be raised as to the nature of the harengon's abilities such as rabbit hop and to the extent to which these capabilities are dependent on the harengon physical form.
Are there other relevant references to look at on this?
What rulings would work?
Each DM may rule differently so check with your DM.
Agreed with Brian.. it's up to your DM... but because it's a Racial feature, I don't think it's meant to carry over, so same way decision or other Racial sense dont carry over
The wild shape rule actually specifies race features as among those that can carry over.
The important stipulation is the "physically capable of doing so" part, which prevents you from turning into a horse and then carrying on with your day job repairing pocket watches. 😂
In this specific case it'd be up to your DM, but I'd say that it heavily depends on the type of beast you're turning into; having legs is not the same as having the right type of legs for performing a rabbit hop, so you might end up limited to still being some form of rabbit, or maybe a kangaroo or similar. I wouldn't expect to be able to bunny hop as a bear… well, you could, but I don't think it would receive the benefit of your Harengon racial trait.
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I think the intent is that "physically capable" means that if a racial trait is specific to physiology (like a leap) then it would not carry over when your physical body changes. I would imagine it is your rabbit like legs that allow you to leap and not your leporine intuition.
It depends on the new animal. If you go for a kangaroo or something naturally hops, then I'd let it go.
Sorry, but it'll be a very firm no if you're a mammoth.
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RAW a Druid can use any of it's racial trait while Wild Shaped if the new form is physically capable of doing so yes a druid in beast form capable of jumping should be able to Rabbit Hop.
And there's the rub, is it not? The reason why Harengon can do the Rabbit Hop is because it's physically set up to do so. The legs are almost purpose built in order to do rabbit hops. Therefore, it could easily be argued that any creature that doesn't already have a similar setup for their legs (the vast majority) doesn't qualify.
The problem is that most racial features are based physical features. Therefore, how do you interpret "physically capable", since that seems like it's basically saying no?
Want to play D&D? Try the following resources first (each section withing vertical bars is a clickable link to find the resource).
|The free Basic Rules.|
|Some free short adventures| and |some more here too.| |Here is a series of encounters, some of which link together form a mini-adventure|.
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I interpret physically capable of doing so as having a physical that can do it, not necessarily perfectly though. So anything with legs that can jump so a serpent would not be able.
If we require perfect physical match, most racial traits will never be usable unless the new beast form is physically identical.
Two problems: 1) It is your interpretation, so other DMs might interpret things differently. 2) "Physically capable" is vague. In fact, all of wild shape is problematically vague. But we know that simply having eyes isn't enough for, say, something like darkvision to carry over. We also know that having a mouth isn't enough for having your languages carry over. No reason to assume that simply having legs is enough for your jump to carry over. Do loxodon druids get to carry over their natural armor? Is having skin enough to have that trait carry over? It depends on the DM.
As per Sage Advice, your language are always carried over, but only usable as long you the new form can speak. It is a great exemple of physically capable of doing something while not perfectly a physical match. Having some form of mouth and being able to speak let you use any known languages, just like having some legs and being able to jump could let you use Rabbit Hop. It is my interpretation of the rules as written. You are absolutely right other DM can rule otherwise.
In a Dragon Talk podcast on Druid Wild Shape (5:40) Jeremy Crawford mention not physically capable when it ''lacks anatomy'' for it. More precisely ''You are limited by the anatomy of the creature you transform into''' At 20:31 mark ''now this is very open ended and we were very purposeful in being this open ended because there's so many type of animals you can turn into if we got too specific we would end up far too restrictive than we intend to be and really the message i want to give is this rule is written in a spirit of permissiveness. We actually want to to be able to use as many of your race and class features as possible with a limit more on narrative than game balance''
So if the new form has anatomy that let's it jump or speak, you should be able to still do so since Rabbit Hop doesn't specifically require the anatomy of rabbit legs. The Devs mention he would allow a dragonborn use its breath if the new form has a mouth. He mention some classes' Unarmored Armor and other Natural armor are still usable, you use the highest AC value between yours and the new form. So physically capable is intentionally permissive and open ended.
So a Druid wildshaped into a giant elk can speak gith but not common?
A Druid wildshaped into a giant elk can speak any languages it knows because the new form can speak.
But anyway, that is a bit beyond the point. Your response only provided opinion again. A vague rule and opinion for guidance only leaves DM discretion as the final say.
A giant elk cannot speak common, elvish, or sylvan. It says so right in the statblock.
It can speak is all that count. Language bears the ability to speak while common, elf etc is knowledge.
But the literally says that it is incapable of speaking those languages, and wild shape only allows you to do things that the new form is capable of. Now you are throwing the rules out the window.
In other words, a druid whild shaped cannot use its known language and speak if the new form statblock has ''Languages —''
Which rule am i throwing out the window? The official ruling in Sage Advice clearly say Druids can speak the languages they know if an adopted form can speak.
I'm offering guidance from official sources, my response refers to the Devs opinion in a podcast and official rulings in Sage Advice. Nothing vague here.
DM discretion as the final say in any situation.