I'm relatively new and about to hop into a campaign with some serious min/maxers. I want a Druid build (multi class) that breaks something in a good way, i want to carry my weight with a group of pro's. I RP more than most of them and I'm not worried about Damage... group and setting below.
I'm looking at Druid/Monk Druid/Barbarian right now?! but i need help with the full build (perks, talent points, background, etc)
Setting: Region used to be a pillar of trade and tech but a creepy haunted forest overtook much of the region hundreds of years ago. Now the remnant factions try and survive on the edges. (Slavery elves - Steampunk Dwarves - Human Mercs)
I will be jumping in at level 8 or 9 - RP, adding to the story, and group support is my main focus.
If you are at level 9, you need to compare CR 3 beasts you could wildshape into with the specific build for either of them. You could do 6/3 and have a character that can wild shape into CR2 beasts, has their first totem feature, can rage and reckless attack. I don’t know if that is more useful than missing out on forms like the giant snapping turtle.
I personally never find much use for multiclassing a druid: it delays your spell casting (your single most important feature, even for moon druids) and your wild shape progression for moon druids. A 9th level druid can cast 5th level spells, and druids get some great 5th level control spells.
Anyway, no matter what, you’re going to have trouble beating the output of an optimized paladin or echo knight.
Yeah the Paladin and Echo Knight is why im not super worried about damage during fights - the way it's been explained to me they just rick-roll everything and the DM is tuning the fights to deal with them specifically.
Man, i was hoping there was some combo between perks and backgrounds that let druids do "something" ridiculous.
Your response is right in line with everywhere else online, thanks for the input WolfOftheBees
Is my interpretation correct "Multiclassing druids helps you get through the lower levels easier but you are crippling yourself for late game"
My view is that a multiclass requires a specific end-state in mind. You might find a quite powerful build at a specific level by taking the right levels in the right classes. But I always find that those builds work at specific levels or level ranges and are generally quite poor before they come online and get surpassed if you go too far beyond their target build level.
Moon druids are very strong at character level 2, but wild shape falls off dramatically beyond that (with a decently sized bump at 10 and a huge bump at 20). It is their casting that keeps moon druids competitive between those strong points. Multiclassing delays spell progression, and with the barbarian, essentially prohibits spellcasting as part of combat. Again, you might find a particular combination that provides some value: A bear totem/bear might be able to take a hit like no one’s business while still putting out OK damage, and delaying spellcasting might be worthwhile for that concept.
No other druid subclass multiclasses well with the barbarian because of rage’s incompatibility with spells. I’m not thematically or mechanically a fan of the monk, so other than unarmored defense, I don’t know of any real synergies. Natural weapon attacks usually don’t count as monk weapons, so I think many of the monk features don’t work for the actions in a beast’s stat block anyway.
I might consider a druid/ranger or druid/cleric MC if you’re not going for Moon druid. A spores druid might mix well with a fighter or another weapon using class (but again, probably not barbarian). Then again, a straight shepherd, stars, or wildfire druid can be quite interesting in and of themselves. But to repeat, no matter what, If it is a MC build, I’d want to have an idea where it was going to end up: I need this feature from this druid subclass and this feature from this class to work, and then the build is set.
Yeah the Paladin and Echo Knight is why im not super worried about damage during fights - the way it's been explained to me they just rick-roll everything and the DM is tuning the fights to deal with them specifically.
Man, i was hoping there was some combo between perks and backgrounds that let druids do "something" ridiculous.
Your response is right in line with everywhere else online, thanks for the input WolfOftheBees
Is my interpretation correct "Multiclassing druids helps you get through the lower levels easier but you are crippling yourself for late game"
Yes that would be a decent interpretation. If you are coming in a t L9/10 I would look over Druid levels 9- at least 15 as well as the spell lists for those levels I think you will find quite a range of support capabilities as well some interesting damage spells to go along with a pretty hefty wildshape.
I've played a Moon Druid-Monk, the same character twice, built out diffently each time in terms of level balance, and I have to say it's hard to determine how to distribute levels... d4 and even d6 unarmored strikes are kind of MEH at that level, but they still have their use in some instances (IE, giant constrictor snake once they are constricted). I have no first hand experience with a barb moon druid, but have toyed with the idea a lot. As everyone else said, you'll be delaying a lot of other goodies, but there is some synergy with both options
Personally, I feel the 1-level Monk and emphasising on Druid was better.. but if you want to split more evenly, make sure you at least get CR 2 BEASTS for while shape (level 6 Druid). The HP and ability to just LOCK DOWN a single target with Giant constrictor snake, and reach+mobility of Giant Elk are nice (not to mention you will have a respectable AC with beast dex + your wisdom). CR 3 doesnt have enough options, and while Giant Scorpion has 3 attacks and 2 Restrict attacks, it has little benifit from Monk's Martial Arts and a pitiful +5 to attack rolls at that level of play (however the range of blindsight is amazing if you want to use with fog cloud )... CR 1 does not hold up in combat, but that's not to say I don't still use giant spider in specific situations
I would recommend a Monk 1/Druid 8 or Monk 3 / Druid 6. I really liked the Mercy Monk, and could use the Hands of Harm or Healing if I used monk attacks in wildshape.. but I was super restricted by Ki points in this build.
If you play barbarian, a 3 level dip into Totem or Beast might work, but the rage/unarmored benifit would be dependent on your BEAST's stats. So wildshaping into a Bear, which has gold CON might work could give you a slight bump in AC, but they have crappy Dex so it will only be 1 or 2 points higher. Still RAGE can be huge for extending a wild shape duration in combat. A giant constrictor snake has 60 HP, and if you constrict a melee character you effective can soak up a lot of damage with rage. Also, if you start with Barbarian, you'll get Con Save for proficiency
Feats.
Lean more towards the Druid on this... while in beast form, you dont always have a Bonus Action that you can use.. so a half ASI feat like Telekenetic is great... boost your Wisdom by an additional +1 and get the option to push or pull a target using your Wisdom DC with your bonus action. IE.. cast Moon Beam, targets take damage when they enter the AOE on anyones turn.. so you can technically cause AOE's to do damage twice if they took damage at the start then moved out, and you still retain your wildshape.
Obviously the proficiency in Constitution is sonething that you will want and you may get it if you multiclasses and started with Barbarian... but otherwise Resilience (CON) is a good choice.
Lastly, Crusher is a descent feat too, if you don't need resilience but still have an odd point... but the damage type of each beast will vary generally between piercing (bites) and bludgeoning (constriction or ram attacks, or your unarmed monk strikes), so the push effect can be limited.
I am not sure what you would benefit from multiclassing. If you are dong it to try and keep up with the min maxers, I wouldn't do it. Generally speaking multiclassing either reduces the effectivness of a character accross the board or only really takes shape at the later levels. Moon Druid / Barb might be the exception to this in that it makes your wild shape tougher (though you only get 2 rage per day unless you go 3 levels which really holds back your druid), but then a Druid 5/ Barb 1 can only wold shape into CR1 creatures,
As long as you don't mind not being in the limelight, I would concentrate on maximising the effectiveness of the group. The person who gets the killing blow gets the fame but often it would have missed if it wasn't for faerie fire being cast on it, in combat I would concentrate on buffing your friends or de-buffing the enemies..
Druids have some great spells for out of combat such as tree stride (the party doesn't have anyone who can cast teleportation circle and word of recall can only get you "home" and not until you get to level 11). Control water can get you though quite aa few out of combat chellenges as well as being of use in combat in or near water.
There seems to be an assumption you are going to be a moon druid but you didn't actually say. Especially given you are starting at 8 or 9 I would consider other circles so you can concentrate on spell casting. (This has a double meaning for circle of stars as at level 9 Circle of Stars druid in Dragon form can not fail a con save to maintain concentration unless they take 40 damage in a single hit)
Another thing you can do is help the party get the jump of combat (or at least avoid being surprised by really upping your perception. If your DM mainly uses passive perception take observent, if not take skill expert (or if you REALLY want to MC take a level of ranger for canny)
Here are your options as I see them ( I’m going to assume the DM let’s you enter as a L10 character): 1) L10 moon Druid (or other Druid if you want to try something different) 2) L2 monk/ L8 Druid - if you go any higher as a monk you start losing big time as a Druid. You gain martial arts ( doesn’t carry over to wildshape), unarmored movement (Dex +Wis bonus), 2 Ki points (nearly useless), unarmored movement +10’ if not wearing armor or using a shield, might carry over to wild shape. You give up elemental wildshapes an L5 spells. I don’t suggest this. 3) L2 barbarian/ L8 Druid: you give up elemental wild shape And L5 Spells. You get rage, unarmored defense (Dex + Con), reckless attack, danger sense. This isn’t bad, the problem comes when you try to push past L2. Barbarian L3-5 are all very useful - enough so that you are tempted to take them all but that means you are now giving up L4&5 spells (a big deal) and the L6 Druid ability (for moon Druid this is CR 2 wildshapes with magic claws) at this point it’s starting to be about whether Druid gives you anything worthwhile to your barbarian than about whether barbarian adds something worthwhile to your Druid.
I can see going to L3 bear totem barbarian/L6/7 moon Druid but that is as far up the barbarian tree as I would take it. That means delaying your first ASI and completely missing your second that way, Going B2/D8 at least gives you both ASIs and only delays them by 2 levels.
you will have to decide whether to start as a barbarian (HPs, S & C saves), or as a Druid (I & W saves).
Why not go ranger? They get druid spells and it seems like other party members have close combat covered. Gnomes and goblins are just asking for someone to shoot arrows over their heads. A gloomstalker could work well with the rogue and could darkly hog the spotlight in ways frontline combatants can't.
Lots of classes are great for multiclassing, but Druid is not one of them. You are really only making your character less effective in the long run. Just stick to Druid and accept your role as battlefield control that helps your allies get the most of their economy.
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I'm relatively new and about to hop into a campaign with some serious min/maxers.
I want a Druid build (multi class) that breaks something in a good way, i want to carry my weight with a group of pro's.
I RP more than most of them and I'm not worried about Damage... group and setting below.
I'm looking at Druid/Monk Druid/Barbarian right now?! but i need help with the full build (perks, talent points, background, etc)
Group:
Gnome Samurai
?? Rogue
?? Life Cleric
Goblin Paladin
Echo Knight Fighter
Setting:
Region used to be a pillar of trade and tech but a creepy haunted forest overtook much of the region hundreds of years ago. Now the remnant factions try and survive on the edges.
(Slavery elves - Steampunk Dwarves - Human Mercs)
I will be jumping in at level 8 or 9 - RP, adding to the story, and group support is my main focus.
If you are at level 9, you need to compare CR 3 beasts you could wildshape into with the specific build for either of them. You could do 6/3 and have a character that can wild shape into CR2 beasts, has their first totem feature, can rage and reckless attack. I don’t know if that is more useful than missing out on forms like the giant snapping turtle.
I personally never find much use for multiclassing a druid: it delays your spell casting (your single most important feature, even for moon druids) and your wild shape progression for moon druids. A 9th level druid can cast 5th level spells, and druids get some great 5th level control spells.
Anyway, no matter what, you’re going to have trouble beating the output of an optimized paladin or echo knight.
Yeah the Paladin and Echo Knight is why im not super worried about damage during fights - the way it's been explained to me they just rick-roll everything and the DM is tuning the fights to deal with them specifically.
Man, i was hoping there was some combo between perks and backgrounds that let druids do "something" ridiculous.
Your response is right in line with everywhere else online, thanks for the input WolfOftheBees
Is my interpretation correct "Multiclassing druids helps you get through the lower levels easier but you are crippling yourself for late game"
My view is that a multiclass requires a specific end-state in mind. You might find a quite powerful build at a specific level by taking the right levels in the right classes. But I always find that those builds work at specific levels or level ranges and are generally quite poor before they come online and get surpassed if you go too far beyond their target build level.
Moon druids are very strong at character level 2, but wild shape falls off dramatically beyond that (with a decently sized bump at 10 and a huge bump at 20). It is their casting that keeps moon druids competitive between those strong points. Multiclassing delays spell progression, and with the barbarian, essentially prohibits spellcasting as part of combat. Again, you might find a particular combination that provides some value: A bear totem/bear might be able to take a hit like no one’s business while still putting out OK damage, and delaying spellcasting might be worthwhile for that concept.
No other druid subclass multiclasses well with the barbarian because of rage’s incompatibility with spells. I’m not thematically or mechanically a fan of the monk, so other than unarmored defense, I don’t know of any real synergies. Natural weapon attacks usually don’t count as monk weapons, so I think many of the monk features don’t work for the actions in a beast’s stat block anyway.
I might consider a druid/ranger or druid/cleric MC if you’re not going for Moon druid. A spores druid might mix well with a fighter or another weapon using class (but again, probably not barbarian). Then again, a straight shepherd, stars, or wildfire druid can be quite interesting in and of themselves. But to repeat, no matter what, If it is a MC build, I’d want to have an idea where it was going to end up: I need this feature from this druid subclass and this feature from this class to work, and then the build is set.
Yes that would be a decent interpretation. If you are coming in a t L9/10 I would look over Druid levels 9- at least 15 as well as the spell lists for those levels I think you will find quite a range of support capabilities as well some interesting damage spells to go along with a pretty hefty wildshape.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I've played a Moon Druid-Monk, the same character twice, built out diffently each time in terms of level balance, and I have to say it's hard to determine how to distribute levels... d4 and even d6 unarmored strikes are kind of MEH at that level, but they still have their use in some instances (IE, giant constrictor snake once they are constricted). I have no first hand experience with a barb moon druid, but have toyed with the idea a lot. As everyone else said, you'll be delaying a lot of other goodies, but there is some synergy with both options
Personally, I feel the 1-level Monk and emphasising on Druid was better.. but if you want to split more evenly, make sure you at least get CR 2 BEASTS for while shape (level 6 Druid). The HP and ability to just LOCK DOWN a single target with Giant constrictor snake, and reach+mobility of Giant Elk are nice (not to mention you will have a respectable AC with beast dex + your wisdom). CR 3 doesnt have enough options, and while Giant Scorpion has 3 attacks and 2 Restrict attacks, it has little benifit from Monk's Martial Arts and a pitiful +5 to attack rolls at that level of play (however the range of blindsight is amazing if you want to use with fog cloud )... CR 1 does not hold up in combat, but that's not to say I don't still use giant spider in specific situations
I would recommend a Monk 1/Druid 8 or Monk 3 / Druid 6. I really liked the Mercy Monk, and could use the Hands of Harm or Healing if I used monk attacks in wildshape.. but I was super restricted by Ki points in this build.
If you play barbarian, a 3 level dip into Totem or Beast might work, but the rage/unarmored benifit would be dependent on your BEAST's stats. So wildshaping into a Bear, which has gold CON might work could give you a slight bump in AC, but they have crappy Dex so it will only be 1 or 2 points higher. Still RAGE can be huge for extending a wild shape duration in combat. A giant constrictor snake has 60 HP, and if you constrict a melee character you effective can soak up a lot of damage with rage. Also, if you start with Barbarian, you'll get Con Save for proficiency
Feats.
Lean more towards the Druid on this... while in beast form, you dont always have a Bonus Action that you can use.. so a half ASI feat like Telekenetic is great... boost your Wisdom by an additional +1 and get the option to push or pull a target using your Wisdom DC with your bonus action. IE.. cast Moon Beam, targets take damage when they enter the AOE on anyones turn.. so you can technically cause AOE's to do damage twice if they took damage at the start then moved out, and you still retain your wildshape.
Obviously the proficiency in Constitution is sonething that you will want and you may get it if you multiclasses and started with Barbarian... but otherwise Resilience (CON) is a good choice.
Lastly, Crusher is a descent feat too, if you don't need resilience but still have an odd point... but the damage type of each beast will vary generally between piercing (bites) and bludgeoning (constriction or ram attacks, or your unarmed monk strikes), so the push effect can be limited.
I am not sure what you would benefit from multiclassing. If you are dong it to try and keep up with the min maxers, I wouldn't do it. Generally speaking multiclassing either reduces the effectivness of a character accross the board or only really takes shape at the later levels. Moon Druid / Barb might be the exception to this in that it makes your wild shape tougher (though you only get 2 rage per day unless you go 3 levels which really holds back your druid), but then a Druid 5/ Barb 1 can only wold shape into CR1 creatures,
As long as you don't mind not being in the limelight, I would concentrate on maximising the effectiveness of the group. The person who gets the killing blow gets the fame but often it would have missed if it wasn't for faerie fire being cast on it, in combat I would concentrate on buffing your friends or de-buffing the enemies..
Druids have some great spells for out of combat such as tree stride (the party doesn't have anyone who can cast teleportation circle and word of recall can only get you "home" and not until you get to level 11). Control water can get you though quite aa few out of combat chellenges as well as being of use in combat in or near water.
There seems to be an assumption you are going to be a moon druid but you didn't actually say. Especially given you are starting at 8 or 9 I would consider other circles so you can concentrate on spell casting. (This has a double meaning for circle of stars as at level 9 Circle of Stars druid in Dragon form can not fail a con save to maintain concentration unless they take 40 damage in a single hit)
Another thing you can do is help the party get the jump of combat (or at least avoid being surprised by really upping your perception. If your DM mainly uses passive perception take observent, if not take skill expert (or if you REALLY want to MC take a level of ranger for canny)
Here are your options as I see them ( I’m going to assume the DM let’s you enter as a L10 character):
1) L10 moon Druid (or other Druid if you want to try something different)
2) L2 monk/ L8 Druid - if you go any higher as a monk you start losing big time as a Druid. You gain martial arts ( doesn’t carry over to wildshape), unarmored movement (Dex +Wis bonus), 2 Ki points (nearly useless), unarmored movement +10’ if not wearing armor or using a shield, might carry over to wild shape. You give up elemental wildshapes an L5 spells. I don’t suggest this.
3) L2 barbarian/ L8 Druid: you give up elemental wild shape And L5 Spells. You get rage, unarmored defense (Dex + Con), reckless attack, danger sense. This isn’t bad, the problem comes when you try to push past L2. Barbarian L3-5 are all very useful - enough so that you are tempted to take them all but that means you are now giving up L4&5 spells (a big deal) and the L6 Druid ability (for moon Druid this is CR 2 wildshapes with magic claws) at this point it’s starting to be about whether Druid gives you anything worthwhile to your barbarian than about whether barbarian adds something worthwhile to your Druid.
I can see going to L3 bear totem barbarian/L6/7 moon Druid but that is as far up the barbarian tree as I would take it. That means delaying your first ASI and completely missing your second that way, Going B2/D8 at least gives you both ASIs and only delays them by 2 levels.
you will have to decide whether to start as a barbarian (HPs, S & C saves), or as a Druid (I & W saves).
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Why not go ranger? They get druid spells and it seems like other party members have close combat covered. Gnomes and goblins are just asking for someone to shoot arrows over their heads. A gloomstalker could work well with the rogue and could darkly hog the spotlight in ways frontline combatants can't.
Or, if your set on a Druid MC try a Druid/ranger MC. Here is an example:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sheet-pdfs/wcwilson82355_61133659.pdf
an arracokra Fey Wanderer 5/Shepherd Druid 5. I went 5/5 to get the ranger’s second attack.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Lots of classes are great for multiclassing, but Druid is not one of them. You are really only making your character less effective in the long run. Just stick to Druid and accept your role as battlefield control that helps your allies get the most of their economy.