As a druid layer I've really begun to like the idea of creating some cool builds associated with my subclass but after reading and re-reading the spore druid class and attempting to really try and make it make sense with any build, I'm kind of lost now. reading the spore druid it feels like the class's abilities in comparison to ones like wildfire, are drastically insignificant and I know at low levels most classes shouldn't be powerful, but circle of spores leaves me confused on what to do. abilities like halo of spores with a 10ft radius make me think well i got to get close or get the enemies to want to get close to me so i can deal damage utilizing that constant ability that is the base of my subclass being Halo of Spores, but the damage scaling is really low at low levels until level 6 where it finally goes up to just 1d6 but also where most creature's health at that level will out do my halo damage and just feel tickled by the spores.
so then i think of ways to increase my melee damage (cause we can't go around firing spells at close range with disadvantage) but then i look at the list of melee weapons that druids have access to which seems to aim to make us use trash weapons as none of them can go above the damage of 1d6 unless we end up with enchanted or magic weapons. so here i am dealing 1d6+1d4 being the quarter staff and halo until later all the way to level 6 where i can deal 1d6+1d6 which after all that calculation and build planning, the paladin at level 1uses big sword and bonk enemy on head for literally the same thing and more with just a great sword and i feel like that's underwhelming plus i don't think a quarterstaff (A stick) really fits the dark necromancy druid look.
so then we decide to add the wild shape ability replacement called symbiotic entity. now this ability allows me to double my damage of halo of spores to 2d4 which is a total of 8, and later if my character with this subclass survives to level 6 i can deal 2d6 halo damage which starts to get better but, till that point, there's not much damage there :( but also i can deal 1d6 extra with a melee weapon so i guess that's cool and again seems to really push the idea that this druid subclass wants you to fight with melee weapons at close range but (and i can't stress this enough) it doesn't scale up at all for higher levels anywhere in the ability text so what happened, is this a flaw or is 1d6 for a melee-oriented subclass all i get up to level 20. i traded turning into a giant beast that can potentially do 2 or 3d8 and has 40 to 60 hit points for almost 2 to 4 hours for 10 minutes of 1d6 and let's say level 4 i get 16 temp hit points reminding you i don't have a high AC as a druid until i can get my hands on good armor later where i can get 18 with 50pg scale mail cause i amped my Dex for melee fighting plus a shield and plus depending on my race.
so lets add up the total of a level 3 circle of spores druid utilizing the melee of this class as intended as an example and please tell me if i missed a potential damage buffing step here. Step 1: i use my bonus action and enter into symbiotic entity form and let's say I, by the grace of god have the initiative over whatever is gonna beat my cheeks. Step 2: i used my bonus action already so no flame blade, so i enter into the enemy's space for an attack not with my quarterstaff cause that thing sucks so i aim for a hit with primal savagery for 1d10 which doesn't count as a melee weapon and says specifically melee spell attack but hopefully my dm is on my side with how unfair that terminology seems, and technically the enemy has moved into my 10ft radius so i force them to make a consave which hopefully they don't pass my easy dc at this level cause i wish i had the hex spell. Step 3: after they now took 2d4 which rolled, i dealt 5 damage out of the potential 8 :( now i hit with Primal Savagery for 4 acid plus luckily 6 extra necrotic damage. and i can't move away so i don't give opportunity attack and end my turn.
In total i have dealt with an entire planning and long drawn-out explanation to the dm 15 damage. that was enough damage to waste on overkilling one goblin out of the probably 7 or 8 that are waiting to kill me with 7hp average and 12 max or exactly enough to kill 1 orc out of the 3 or 4 waiting to destroy me. now a paladin oath of conquest for example would have used their oath to deal +10 damage straight no rolls required plus a 2d6 dealing great sword plus str plus divine smite if he wanted to which does potentially somewhere over 25 damage in one go. when playing dnd usually a druid isn't alone in combat, he or she is a part of a team working to take down crowds of enemies and protect each other from being swarmed but i still build my characters to take on scenarios where I'm not lucky enough to have my team. i feel like any and every class should aim to have a build to solo a story, not just play a support role and feel content to not want your character to be a legend like Tasha and so many others and aside from that we just don't have any druid hype characters on Tasha's level which makes me want to build my druid more. this will probably have to just be a homebrew improvement on my end to make the spore druid better but if it could get brought to a higher attention to receive a buff then i think this class would get picked up more.
Things i want to see improved is 1. Make the transformation of symbiotic entity longer and not just 10 minutes in comparison to its counterpart being 2 hours average 2.Make the point of symbiotic entity's damage much more worth it if it only has 10 minutes which includes adding a scaling to the 1d6 extra melee damage like you do for the halo of spores at higher levels or while in the form give us an AC bonus to make this melee oriented subclass have survivability. 3. give us more text, make the subclasses have small little additions early on that either add to the roleplay aspect of a game or give small bonuses like the grave domain cleric with spare the dying or the warlock genie with changing their damage type. 4. Let us conjure a weapon befitting of a spore druid of the players choice similar to warlock pack weapons that does set damage based on what you deem fair and balanced that allows sweeping attacks in a set radius that applies that extra damage while in symbiotic form 5. Give the halo of spores a stack negative effect to those who choose to stay in the cloud for multiple turns or increase the radius with the players level. i have so many ideas but i know that putting them here wont do much and this post most likely will go unnoticed but something today just said to make it known that i care about the future and past of the druid class and just want to see it thrive and appeal to more people. thank you for your time.
Why are you not factoring in Shillelagh? You do a melee attack, with your casting stat, for a d8 and add the halo damage. Then as a reaction, do halo damage again when the enemy starts its turn. Plus, of course, you're a full caster.
There's a spore druid in my current party, and she's doing solid damage, but her spells have really pulled us out of the fire a few times. The bigger problem she was having, particularly at lower levels, is the symbiotic entity going away when you lose the thp it gives.
There's also Primal Savagery, which scales better at higher levels. 2d10 averages out to 11 with a max of 20 before crits, 1d8+5 is about 10 with a max of 13.
Edit: Missed that you need to be making a weapon attack to get the bonus damage. Yeah, honestly Spores Druid is a little weird because it wants you to do more melee weapon attacks, but doesn't give you any alternatives to Shillelagh.
Oh i have no doubt that a druid can absolutely save a party, ive done it multiple times and the spell we get are a collection of wonderful crowd control spells but spells and our subclass abilities are two separate things. i dont want a change to our spells, i just want a buff to our subclass abilities so we can save our spells and make the subclass more fun.
Yeah i factored in primal savagery in the damage portion above instead of using the stick (Quarterstaff) cause 1d10 is much better than 1d6 and counts as magic damage early on if you ever deal with a resistance that early. Again that just brings up more spell uses so save a dying subclass that focuses on melee that should be giving a buff in itself to melee but just doesnt make it worth. when i calculated the damage i gave an example of being at level 3 or 4 cause for alot of dnd players they dont always play stories where the dm just gives them alot of xp early on so players sit at low levels for a long time which of course when "I" run a campaign i either make the xp easier so everyone can get their subclasses or i just start players at lvl3 so we can get on with the fun stuff and they can learn more about their style. but that time between level 1 and level 6 is a treacherous no scaling horror so in this case till level 5 or 6 primal savagery wont be much of a change. the only really cool saving grace i love about the symbiotic entity is the temp health which even at low levels is pretty cool but i still dont like the 10 minute thing and in my campaigns i just do away with the shape change time limit for alittle slice of homebrew for all druid subclasses.
to make abit of a better response to the gentleman or Lady up top (Xalthu) sorry for the small response i wanted to get to this one here first. i Love druids i make druid subclasses and builds almost as much as i make homebrew campaigns and magic items as i have for 8 years now. i love to see players pick druids and build characters that i as a player or dm in the moment can just idolize, i consider myself a druid in real life with all the plants i grown in my small apartment. saying this i do my best to see the best in druid subclasses whether its here or in pathfinder and ive noticed some bugs in other classes but i wanted to bring attention to circle of spores cause as i said before, halo of spores makes sense despite wanting it to be buffed but i think we can all agree that the symbiotic entity +1d6 melee thing really needs to be scaled. it literally just stops at 1d6 and never goes up.
in situations like this where at least a rune knights force damage increases with level and size, at level 2 when your druid fire spirit just appears it can just deal 2d6 fire damage that scales, it can fly, teleport you and your team infinitely while dealing damage, the star chart druid gets two free spells and 3 constellations that do pretty cool stuff that scale evenly (Talking again about those extra roleplay mechanics that would help), the twilight druid gets this (Starting at 2nd level, you learn to unravel and harvest the life energy of other creatures. You can augment your spells to drain the life force from creatures. You have a pool of energy represented by a number of d10s equal to your druid level.) and you can just use those d10 that scale up with level to just deal extra damage and heal teammates at the same time. these subclasses greatly overshadow others. maybe we just need to make sure they dont do that in the future or bring the ones that got overshadowed to the light.
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As a druid layer I've really begun to like the idea of creating some cool builds associated with my subclass but after reading and re-reading the spore druid class and attempting to really try and make it make sense with any build, I'm kind of lost now. reading the spore druid it feels like the class's abilities in comparison to ones like wildfire, are drastically insignificant and I know at low levels most classes shouldn't be powerful, but circle of spores leaves me confused on what to do. abilities like halo of spores with a 10ft radius make me think well i got to get close or get the enemies to want to get close to me so i can deal damage utilizing that constant ability that is the base of my subclass being Halo of Spores, but the damage scaling is really low at low levels until level 6 where it finally goes up to just 1d6 but also where most creature's health at that level will out do my halo damage and just feel tickled by the spores.
so then i think of ways to increase my melee damage (cause we can't go around firing spells at close range with disadvantage) but then i look at the list of melee weapons that druids have access to which seems to aim to make us use trash weapons as none of them can go above the damage of 1d6 unless we end up with enchanted or magic weapons. so here i am dealing 1d6+1d4 being the quarter staff and halo until later all the way to level 6 where i can deal 1d6+1d6 which after all that calculation and build planning, the paladin at level 1 uses big sword and bonk enemy on head for literally the same thing and more with just a great sword and i feel like that's underwhelming plus i don't think a quarterstaff (A stick) really fits the dark necromancy druid look.
so then we decide to add the wild shape ability replacement called symbiotic entity. now this ability allows me to double my damage of halo of spores to 2d4 which is a total of 8, and later if my character with this subclass survives to level 6 i can deal 2d6 halo damage which starts to get better but, till that point, there's not much damage there :( but also i can deal 1d6 extra with a melee weapon so i guess that's cool and again seems to really push the idea that this druid subclass wants you to fight with melee weapons at close range but (and i can't stress this enough) it doesn't scale up at all for higher levels anywhere in the ability text so what happened, is this a flaw or is 1d6 for a melee-oriented subclass all i get up to level 20. i traded turning into a giant beast that can potentially do 2 or 3d8 and has 40 to 60 hit points for almost 2 to 4 hours for 10 minutes of 1d6 and let's say level 4 i get 16 temp hit points reminding you i don't have a high AC as a druid until i can get my hands on good armor later where i can get 18 with 50pg scale mail cause i amped my Dex for melee fighting plus a shield and plus depending on my race.
so lets add up the total of a level 3 circle of spores druid utilizing the melee of this class as intended as an example and please tell me if i missed a potential damage buffing step here. Step 1: i use my bonus action and enter into symbiotic entity form and let's say I, by the grace of god have the initiative over whatever is gonna beat my cheeks. Step 2: i used my bonus action already so no flame blade, so i enter into the enemy's space for an attack not with my quarterstaff cause that thing sucks so i aim for a hit with primal savagery for 1d10 which doesn't count as a melee weapon and says specifically melee spell attack but hopefully my dm is on my side with how unfair that terminology seems, and technically the enemy has moved into my 10ft radius so i force them to make a consave which hopefully they don't pass my easy dc at this level cause i wish i had the hex spell. Step 3: after they now took 2d4 which rolled, i dealt 5 damage out of the potential 8 :( now i hit with Primal Savagery for 4 acid plus luckily 6 extra necrotic damage. and i can't move away so i don't give opportunity attack and end my turn.
In total i have dealt with an entire planning and long drawn-out explanation to the dm 15 damage. that was enough damage to waste on overkilling one goblin out of the probably 7 or 8 that are waiting to kill me with 7hp average and 12 max or exactly enough to kill 1 orc out of the 3 or 4 waiting to destroy me. now a paladin oath of conquest for example would have used their oath to deal +10 damage straight no rolls required plus a 2d6 dealing great sword plus str plus divine smite if he wanted to which does potentially somewhere over 25 damage in one go. when playing dnd usually a druid isn't alone in combat, he or she is a part of a team working to take down crowds of enemies and protect each other from being swarmed but i still build my characters to take on scenarios where I'm not lucky enough to have my team. i feel like any and every class should aim to have a build to solo a story, not just play a support role and feel content to not want your character to be a legend like Tasha and so many others and aside from that we just don't have any druid hype characters on Tasha's level which makes me want to build my druid more. this will probably have to just be a homebrew improvement on my end to make the spore druid better but if it could get brought to a higher attention to receive a buff then i think this class would get picked up more.
Things i want to see improved is 1. Make the transformation of symbiotic entity longer and not just 10 minutes in comparison to its counterpart being 2 hours average 2.Make the point of symbiotic entity's damage much more worth it if it only has 10 minutes which includes adding a scaling to the 1d6 extra melee damage like you do for the halo of spores at higher levels or while in the form give us an AC bonus to make this melee oriented subclass have survivability. 3. give us more text, make the subclasses have small little additions early on that either add to the roleplay aspect of a game or give small bonuses like the grave domain cleric with spare the dying or the warlock genie with changing their damage type. 4. Let us conjure a weapon befitting of a spore druid of the players choice similar to warlock pack weapons that does set damage based on what you deem fair and balanced that allows sweeping attacks in a set radius that applies that extra damage while in symbiotic form 5. Give the halo of spores a stack negative effect to those who choose to stay in the cloud for multiple turns or increase the radius with the players level. i have so many ideas but i know that putting them here wont do much and this post most likely will go unnoticed but something today just said to make it known that i care about the future and past of the druid class and just want to see it thrive and appeal to more people. thank you for your time.
Why are you not factoring in Shillelagh? You do a melee attack, with your casting stat, for a d8 and add the halo damage. Then as a reaction, do halo damage again when the enemy starts its turn. Plus, of course, you're a full caster.
There's a spore druid in my current party, and she's doing solid damage, but her spells have really pulled us out of the fire a few times. The bigger problem she was having, particularly at lower levels, is the symbiotic entity going away when you lose the thp it gives.
There's also Primal Savagery, which scales better at higher levels. 2d10 averages out to 11 with a max of 20 before crits, 1d8+5 is about 10 with a max of 13.
Edit: Missed that you need to be making a weapon attack to get the bonus damage. Yeah, honestly Spores Druid is a little weird because it wants you to do more melee weapon attacks, but doesn't give you any alternatives to Shillelagh.
Oh i have no doubt that a druid can absolutely save a party, ive done it multiple times and the spell we get are a collection of wonderful crowd control spells but spells and our subclass abilities are two separate things. i dont want a change to our spells, i just want a buff to our subclass abilities so we can save our spells and make the subclass more fun.
Yeah i factored in primal savagery in the damage portion above instead of using the stick (Quarterstaff) cause 1d10 is much better than 1d6 and counts as magic damage early on if you ever deal with a resistance that early. Again that just brings up more spell uses so save a dying subclass that focuses on melee that should be giving a buff in itself to melee but just doesnt make it worth. when i calculated the damage i gave an example of being at level 3 or 4 cause for alot of dnd players they dont always play stories where the dm just gives them alot of xp early on so players sit at low levels for a long time which of course when "I" run a campaign i either make the xp easier so everyone can get their subclasses or i just start players at lvl3 so we can get on with the fun stuff and they can learn more about their style. but that time between level 1 and level 6 is a treacherous no scaling horror so in this case till level 5 or 6 primal savagery wont be much of a change. the only really cool saving grace i love about the symbiotic entity is the temp health which even at low levels is pretty cool but i still dont like the 10 minute thing and in my campaigns i just do away with the shape change time limit for alittle slice of homebrew for all druid subclasses.
to make abit of a better response to the gentleman or Lady up top (Xalthu) sorry for the small response i wanted to get to this one here first. i Love druids i make druid subclasses and builds almost as much as i make homebrew campaigns and magic items as i have for 8 years now. i love to see players pick druids and build characters that i as a player or dm in the moment can just idolize, i consider myself a druid in real life with all the plants i grown in my small apartment. saying this i do my best to see the best in druid subclasses whether its here or in pathfinder and ive noticed some bugs in other classes but i wanted to bring attention to circle of spores cause as i said before, halo of spores makes sense despite wanting it to be buffed but i think we can all agree that the symbiotic entity +1d6 melee thing really needs to be scaled. it literally just stops at 1d6 and never goes up.
in situations like this where at least a rune knights force damage increases with level and size, at level 2 when your druid fire spirit just appears it can just deal 2d6 fire damage that scales, it can fly, teleport you and your team infinitely while dealing damage, the star chart druid gets two free spells and 3 constellations that do pretty cool stuff that scale evenly (Talking again about those extra roleplay mechanics that would help), the twilight druid gets this (Starting at 2nd level, you learn to unravel and harvest the life energy of other creatures. You can augment your spells to drain the life force from creatures. You have a pool of energy represented by a number of d10s equal to your druid level.) and you can just use those d10 that scale up with level to just deal extra damage and heal teammates at the same time. these subclasses greatly overshadow others. maybe we just need to make sure they dont do that in the future or bring the ones that got overshadowed to the light.