Not sure if my train of thought is rule breaking or if these guys lack imagination.
So I thought I'd ask for some feed back.
I was wondering what your thoughts are on using off Druid abilities while in Wild Shape.
I like to take the Grappler feat and if a beast could practically restraint a target I treat it as a grapple.
A bear could pin following a multi attack. If successful, bite has advantage but claw has disadvantage and requires a pin check after the attack as the target has to be released to be struck.
A wolf could bite and hold onto a limb like an attack dog or choke out the target if I successfully attack the throat. Further attacks are foregone as long as I hold the target, but the target can take reduced bite damage as I tighten my grip.
A poisonous snake could trip up targets by binding the legs or disarm them by binding their hands/arms or choking out the target if wrapped around their neck.
My personal favorite is the giant spider, by jumping on top of the target and locking my legs around it. I could grapple and bite as well as have advantage on web. If successfully webbed, the target was fully bound head to toe and had disadvantage on strength checks to break free not to mention unable to perform either Somatic or Verbal spell components.
These guys don't think grappling should be used unless its part of the beasts ability list and not based on real world examples functionality.
The list of Feats they've given me that they think are usable in Wild Shape are things like Alert, Keen Mind, Lucky, Mobile, Skulker, and Tough.
All of which are pretty much passive skills.
I've also asked them about multi classing and they appear to only be keen on a class's physical abilities such as a Rogue, Barbarian or Monk.
This got me thinking about cross class abilities and what should or shouldn't be permitted in Wild Shape.
Do you think active Feats like Grappler, War Caster, Sentinel, and Mage Slayer can be used?
What about Unarmored Defense and Movement abilities? Can these be used in Wild Shape given that in wild shape all armour is dropped and would you use them all the time or only when the values are higher then the standard beast stats?
I got to thinking. If a Monks abilities are permitted would their Ki point based abilities also be permitted?
If so what then about the Sorcerers SP abilities?
SP can be used to replenish spent spell slots used in Wild Shape for healing
They can also be used to active Metamagic abilities.
If so then as early as level 5 (Druid 2/Sorcerer 3) your PC could have access to the Druids level 18 Beast Spells.
By spending 1 SP, the Metamagic ability Subtle Spell can be used to cast a spell without using Somatic or Verbal components but still requiring Material components. Exactly like Beast Spells with the exception that all spell types can be cast, not just Druid spells.
Wild Shape as a rule states that you can't cast spells and your ability to speak and use your hands is limited to the capabilities of the beasts you've taken the firm of.
But Beast Spells implies that its this lack of vocal and somatic abilities that prevent casing while in Wild Shape.
Also as an after thought. Would you permit the wearing of a chain that holds a Druidic and/or Arcane focus while in Wild Shape to allow for all spells to be cast be it through Subtle Spell or Beat Spells?
There are several great guides for Moon druids that cover a lot of what you're asking, but a few quick answers to your questions:
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
So that should cover most of your questions about what feats, class abilities etc are available in wild shape, but there's a lot of nuance to beast forms.
Your example of a bear and the <feat>Grappler</feat> feat. Multi-attack is an attack action in and of itself. It is not a fighter making an basic attack action, and also having the extra attack feature. So a bear can not mutli-attack AND grapple in the same turn. It must take it's attack action to either multi-attack or grapple. Beyond that, you're right, there's no reason that a Bear couldn't grapple someone on one turn, and gain advantage on a claw or bite (multi-attack would require that you let the target go) on the next. You could even take two turns to pin someone. Heck if you multi-classed into fighter and picked up extra attack, you could do it in one round, but you still wouldn't be able to use multi-attack and most druids don't want to blow spell and class progression by multi-classing that far.
Another thing you need to be aware of is pre-reqs. If at any point you no longer satisfy the pre-req for a feat, you can no longer use it.
Your spider example also doesn't work. You can't bite and grapple in the same turn for the same reason as above, but in addition you won't get advantage on the web attack because it's a ranged weapon attack, and any range attack in melee is at disadvantage.
Just to cover the rest of your feats, War Caster is pretty much a must for any moon druid or resilient (con) because you're going to be rolling a lot of concentration saves. The Attack of Opportunity bit does not help you out in wild shape, I'll cover why a bit later (this is true even with your metamagic workaround). Mage Slayer and Sentinal work just fine (though they have varying degrees of value, seriously go find those guides).
Monks and druid.... long and short. increased damage die doesn't help, and dipping for wis mod to armor isn't clear cut. Most creatures have natural armor that isn't specifically called out in their stat block, it's just wrapped up in their AC. This natural armor does NOT stack with monk armor bonuses. It's one or the other. Ki points still work, but you start getting into the weird action economy that I mentioned with the bear and the grappling.
Spell points, yes you can use them in beast form! Yay!, They're still almost worthless. Here' the catch:
You can’t cast spells, and your ability to speak or take any action that requires hands is limited to the capabilities of your beast form. Transforming doesn’t break your concentration on a spell you’ve already cast, however, or prevent you from taking actions that are part of a spell, such as call lightning, that you’ve already cast.
It's that 'you can’t cast spells, and' section. A druids inability to cast spells has nothing to do with their inability to speak, or wave their hands. They simply can't cast spells in wild-shape until druid 17... flat out end of statement. I think it was less clear in some of the earlier books, but The Sage has said, a druid can not cast spells in wild shape until 17th, then he gives some mumbo jumbo explanation about how wild-shape is an inherently magic intensive state and the druid is spending all their time focusing on maintaining that state and only has a little sliver of magic mental processing available to maintain concentration on any spell they cast before going into wild-shape.
So the truth is somewhere in the middle of your expectations and your groups restrictions. I think an argument could easily be made that no other class requires quite as much understanding of the rules as a Moon druid.
I believe is ckelley717 correct about the Bear, but not the Giant Spider. Multiattack excludes you from the Attack Action. If you use a single Bite or Claw or the Spider's Bite that is an Attack Action with your (natural) weapon attacks.
That said Grappler says nothing about using the Attack Action. It says if you are grappling an enemy you have Advantage on Attack Rolls, and gives you a special action to "pin" your opponant, but that's super dumb because you are BOTH restrained. So only people not in the grapple get Advantage on attacks. (You have Adv & Dis so you roll normally).
If you're trying to use Tavern Brawler to initiate grapples as a bonus action, that won't work either. Here is the problem with Tavern Brawler it states "When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike" and attacks in Wild Shape are not unarmed strikes. They are weapon attacks. The brown bear says "Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d8 + 4) piercing damage."
Also nothing in Grappling says the enemy can't cast spells while they are grappled. Your speed drops to 0. As a note the Giant Octopus is a favorite for this because it can hold it's breath for an hour and has 15' reach AND grapples. So it's possible to hold the enemy in a grapple where they can't attack you back. Plus the target is restrained. Also Note Restrained targets can STILL cast spells, they just have Disadvantage on attacks rolls, but Spell Saves are uneffected.
Side Note. Multi-classing the Moon Druid is hard because the moon druid is very dependent on level, because from 2-5th they have CR:1 creatures, 6-8th is CR:2, etc... 5th lvl also gets you magical attacks which is very important for overcoming damage resistance. So EVERY level you sink outside of Druid is ultimately lowering your long term power and really needs to be worth it.
Common Multiclass combos: 1) 1 levels in Monk means out of Wild Shape you are good in combat and have good AC naked. You lose the ability to use a Shield though. It's a good fluff for "becoming the beast by foregoing weapons and armor" and in Wild Shape your AC is still Wis + Dex, if you keep pumping your Wisdom every 4 levels you'll have a rock hard AC even as a bear. Low AC is the flaw in Beasts. You can "unarmed strike" in Wild Shape, but your not using your natural attacks which are probably superior. 2) 1 level in Barbarian. This is especially good to start with, because you get Martial Weapon Proficiency and 12hp at 1st level. Then you can RAGE as a Beast and so all your attacks get +2 damage while raging and you have resistance to non magical attacks. It also gives you AC of CON+DEX, which in Wild Shape is generally 0-1 point of better AC. 3) 1 level of Sorcerer. This benefits from improving your spell slot progression, 4 cantrips and much better attack/damage cantrips, but they are based on your CHA not WIS. This is important because spell slots are how you heal in Wild Shape. Common sub-classes are either Dragon for the 13+Dex AC which applies to your Wild Shape or Shadow Sorcerer to give all your Wild Shapes Dark Vision to 120' and Strength of the Grave so it gives you one last chance to stay IN the fight and not drop to 0. 3a) You CAN'T cast spells in Wild Shape, ignore Somatic Components with Metamagic doesn't help. It's a FULL STOP you can't do it, until 18th level. Being an Elemental at 10th still doesn't allow it even though you have a humanoid shape and can speak.
War Caster (to keep Concentration), Sentinel, and Mage Slayer can all be used when in Wild Shape. Nothing about them says otherwise.
The only shaky ground is Racial Abilities. Because only those based on form can't be used. So if you have Darkvision you lose that, but a Drow in Wild Shape doesn't lose Sunlight Sensitive, because it's not her eyes that are sensitive it's a supernatural quality. Dragonborn can still use Breath Weapons in Wild Shape. A Tiefling can't use Hellish Rebuke though, because it's still casting a spell, until lvl 18. Half Orcs should keep Relentless Endurance and Savage Attacks Halfings should keep Lucky and Brave, but maybe not Nimbleness. Lizardfolk lose Natural Armor, maybe Hold Breath. They should keep Bite as long as the Wild Shape form has a Bite attack. Some are clear cut some are not.
The only time I've ever used Grapple in Wild Shape was when a Ghost possessed a party member, and my bear grappled him to hold him in place until the ghost left. The 2nd was when I turned into a Female Steader. In Out of the Abyss they are Beasts in MtoF, they are now monstrosity. If you move while grappling you halve you movement unless they are 2 sizes smaller (so small). I enjoyed grappling a target then using Extraordinary Leap to jump 90ft, then drop them.
I believe is ckelley717 correct about the Bear, but not the Giant Spider. Multiattack excludes you from the Attack Action. If you use a single Bite or Claw or the Spider's Bite that is an Attack Action with your (natural) weapon attacks.
I should have said "you can't bite and initiate a grapple in the same turn". My bad, thought that's what the OP wanted to do, but after re-reading that's possibly not that case.
With giant spider if grappling a target you can bite with advantage as its a normal attack which benefits from grappling.
Not attack then grapple, or bite then web, sorry my bad.
But web should also gain advantage and not be considered a ranged spell in this situation, as well as being stronger as it would be a controlled web application, much like how IRL spiders wrap their prey.
Yes yes it is a ranged spell but in this situation its a natural function where a spider would hold its prey and spin them around while encasing them.
I should have stated with regards to the bear grapples that it would have been a multi class with either a barbarian, fighter or ranger for their 5th level extra attacks.
I haven't used grapple Wild shape in a while and my last group was all for creative design. So I'm guessing these guys might be a little more precise when it comes to rules and wording.
My last Druid was classed with a necro wizard flavoured life giving over necro energy, just remade undead into plants, everything else was untouched. Not sure if it would fly with these guys.
Now that I'm looking at a new druid I want to try a mix I've never used before which is Monk or Sorcerer (never touched sorcerer before at all).
If Metamagic Subtle Spell can't be an exploit to bypass the no spells rule then its not a viable 2ndry class for my planned direction.
Shame, I thought I was onto something.
If barbarians rage or Dragonborn fire breath can be used in Wild shape then Ki points shouldn't be a problem.
I see no issue with using Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense or Step of the Wind, all of which use Ki points. Way of the Open Hand also doesn't have any conflicts I can see.
I don't have the book on my right now but there are about 3/4 Way of the Four Elements that don't cast any spells and are wholly unique for that subclass, flaming tentacles, air blasts, water manipulation that sort of thing.
Would these be usable in form or are they also classed as spells even tho they don't appear in the spell list anywhere.
What about unarmored defense and movement, are they carried over in Wild Shape?
As I've said I've not used a monk druid hybrid before and my last group was supportive of creativity and would have allowed the barbarian unarmored AC to be used if it was higher then the beasts form.
So what exactly is the rules on that?
If I can present a plausible argument to the DM and they agree then I can learn to work within the confines of their limitations.
If they want only generic PCs then its not a group for me.
As Per Giant Spiders and Web. It's not a spell attack, it's a Ranged Weapon Attack. So it technically benefits from the Ranged Fighting Style. Any target hit by the Web is restrained, and so everyone gets Adv on attack rolls unless they succeed in a DC:12 Strength test or hit it's AC: 10 dealing 5hp... both of which are pretty easy. Even though the target would have DisAdv on attack rolls hitting AC:10 is pretty easy, and a dagger can cut through 5hp. I've been in games and used the Giant Spider form after a combat to "tie up" baddies for interrogation.
Ok, you were talking about getting 5 lvl of a Martial Class to let your Bear form attack twice as an Attack Action. This does technically work but I caution against it for a few reasons. Fighting Styles are generally not compatible with natural weapons (Giant Spider is an edge case) In my opinion, and it's only that. This requires 7th lvl before you can do it. That means you are Fighter:5, Druid:2. This means you can Claw twice instead of using the Multiattack to Claw and Bite. On the other hand a 7th level Druid can turn into a Cave Bear with +7 to hit and +5 damage on each attack instead of +5 to hit and +4 damage, and has 8 more hit points. 8th lvl is when you gain access to forms with Fly. It's doable and if you have a cool concept it and it works and you're having fun that's great. I'd just be cautious because you'll probably be more Fighter then Moon Druid, and so your forms may start lagging behind and not being as useful.
I'd also re-read Wild Shape like 5 times. It's a confusing section. Key Points are below
You can’t cast spells, and your ability to speak or take any action that requires hands is limited to the capabilities of your beast form.
Transforming doesn’t break your concentration on a spell you’ve already cast, however, or prevent you from taking actions that are part of a spell
When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. However, if you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form.
Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours.
You choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature’s shape and size. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it.
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. This is the main wiggle room, but it's very abstract. Keep in mind there is discussion over magical equipment, because magical equipment does autoresize, so there is discussion if magical gear could or would change with the form. The General gentleman's agreement I've seen is it will if the new form as anatomy to wear it.
Yes Unarmored Defense and movement bonuses from class are carried over into Wild Shape. Racial Traits are also carried over but on a "does it require anatomy to do so"? The reason. Remember you can HAVE multiple AC Calculations but you only use one (the best) of them. Also remember you can only ever have 1 Unarmored Defense, so monk/barbarian multiclasses only get the ability from their first class.
You hit the most important thing. Talk to your DM. Your DM probably has NEVER considered all of these possibilities. So bring it up ahead of time, tell him what you're thinking and then give him a week to think about it and flip through the forums. Moon Druids are weird class and depend on a lot from the GM. One thing I hate about the Moon Druid is the idea of "finding new forms". No other class is as restricted by GM fiat as the Druid.
As an example in a game I'm running I have a Warforged Moon Druid. Normally the +1 AC for being Warforged would probably not carry over to Wild Shape. I decided to give the player a choice at 2nd lvl. He can EITHER get the +1 AC for being Warforged, but he will then always look like a horrific transformer and obviously be not natural. Or he can look like a natural creature and not gain the AC. The player choose to look like a horrifying semi-organic transformer.
Careful, you're making assumptions about the Giant Spider that there are no game rules to support. The web attack in the giant spider's stat block specifically calls it out as a ranged weapon attack. According to the game, for all intents and purposes it functions like bow and arrow, with no melee combat functionality. Yes in the real world, web spinning spiders wrap their prey, but the game has no clear cut mechanics on how that works so you'll be asking your DM to create a custom rule set. While the mechanic may seem cut and dry, I don't think it is, here's a list of concerns I think would need to be addressed.
Web spinning spiders don't "grapple" their prey in order to wrap them in silk, it's their pre-constructed web that immobilizes their prey and the spider manipulates the webbing in order to position their prey so they can wrap them in silk. Spiders have 8 legs, but can a spider maintain a grapple, manipulate it's target in order to wrap it, and competently manipulate it's silk while wrapping it? That's a lot of work without some sort of assistance.
IRL spider venom begins working on their prey immediately, weakening it (though not necessarily paralyzing it) so that the spider can more easily wrap them is silk. Often a spider will bite and retreat in order to give the venom time to do it's thing. However DnD spider venom does damage, and only paralyzes the target upon the target reaching 0 hit points, with no affect on the targets ability to resist being wrapped in silk while it remains conscious.
How long does it take to wrap a target in silk? I don't think it would be a single round of combat. How does the wrapping progress? Are there stages where it becomes harder for the target to escape, or does it take the same amount of effort throughout the whole process?
How does escaping the cocoon work? Is it the same as the basic rules for the web attack? Spiders spin all kinds of silk, is cocoon silk different than the silk in the ranged web attack (a thing which real spiders can't actually do)?
I honestly think DnD spiders can't wrap a target in silk during combat and I would't allow it if I were a DM. If you look at the mechanics of the Giant Spider's attacks it appears that they're intended to allow the spider to fight until it's prey reaches 0 HP where it's paralyzed or dead, then the spider can leisurely wrap it's prey in silk.
Yes all the key point abilities should work, but remember that with flurry of blows the additional attacks would be with the monk's martial arts damage die, not the wild-shaped forms natural attacks. All those abilities work, but as with flurry of blows, unarmed attacks is not the same as a beasts natural weapons. As stated before, unarmored defense works as does the barbarians bonus based on Con, however many beasts don't have great con and the monk ability is generally better for AC increase. Unarmored movement is a bit trickier since most animals have natural armor it's generally a DM call. (I'm guessing yours is going to say no).
Now regarding multi-classing. It sounds like you're planning to go pretty deep into some of your secondary classes. This is generally a bad idea. Remember that even though Moon Druids get improved wild-shape they are first and foremost a caster class. They get a lot of their power from their spells combined with wild-shape. Going too deep into another class starts to mess with your spell progression and spell slots if you choose a martial secondary class. In addition your wild-shape progression gets hampered because it's based purely on druid level, not character level. So if you went 5 levels of fighter, and 5 levels of druid, you're still only turning into a giant spider, dire wolf or brown bear at level 10 with their measly +5 or +6 to hit, and not a whole lot of HP to make up for their mediocre AC even with monk or barb buffs, with very few magic items to help improve that situation (remember wild-shape does interesting stuff with your magic items and it's basically up to DM to determine what you're allowed to keep). If you enjoy a moment of brilliance every couple of gaming sessions while generally being a sub par combat character, a build like that could work, but if you want to be a steady contributor to combat it's generally better to only dip one or two levels in another class.
As an example in a game I'm running I have a Warforged Moon Druid. Normally the +1 AC for being Warforged would probably not carry over to Wild Shape. I decided to give the player a choice at 2nd lvl. He can EITHER get the +1 AC for being Warforged, but he will then always look like a horrific transformer and obviously be not natural. Or he can look like a natural creature and not gain the AC. The player choose to look like a horrifying semi-organic transformer.
LOL, that's bonkers. I'm imagining Bender getting druid powers and just rolling with it, with lots of complaints about being a meat-bag/shield.
I'm aware, something like 30/60 or 90 or something, no idea why I wrote spell.
When I design a PC I plan for a long term direction, not just for the campaign at hand and focus on RP not min/max.
If at the end of this campaign and I'm at 10th level, its the experiences from this campaign that has governed my development.
I still have my road map laid out but I'm prepared for detours and may never get to the target due to forced experiences, just like in real life.
In later campaigns if the starting level is 10-12 instead of creating a new PC I'll use this one adjusting their level if needed, stating it as due to their journey here, ambushes, small quests along the way and what not. The past campaign(s) are now incorporated into their back story and shape their persona.
I require limitations and hurdles and always impose disadvantages to the PC builds to stop me from falling into old habits/play styles (like in Skyrim the bow is just so tempting, so I refuse to pick it up in order to avoid temptation no mater what) so to ensure that I'm not going a heavy moon build I'm looking to utilize elemental attacks as well as rapid attacks there go Ki.
As the rules are fluid in that if an ability's rules break core rules, the ability's rules overrule the core rules rules. So I thought that Subtle Spell might be able to bypass the need for beast spells while being limited to SP count for use, its not like I'd be spamming fire ball in Rat form or anything as there's only going to be limited uses.
But the consensus is that Wild Shape rules forbid it, so be it.
There's still the option of Ki, the Four elements state cast this spell or that spell in all but a few of the abilities, emphasis on Cast. So those spells are a no go. But what about the ones that don't state cast, they just describe the effect such a fire tentacles that can push or pull a single target.
Like I said with my last Druid/Wizard I imposed limitations on spell types centered around plants, stone and arcane (life force) I reflavored some abilities to fit the narrative substituting strengths and weakness with others and combining effects and process.
Nothing was rule breaking other than I tweaked necrotic for plant, life feeding on the dead instead of giving the dead life.
The concept was built around the cycle of life, from death comes life from life comes death. Towns and Villages were the natural habitat of a breed of humanoids that had its own ego system, so they were fine, but like locust or hordes of the undead spreading, new settlements ripping up the homes of other creatures just to expand wasn't acceptable and had to be stopped.
I would therefore be having a personality trait that forces this combination of beast and elements.
If I took a favourite form that has attacks that aren't affective against a monster type or I can I have extra limbs, such as a bug or spider, thematically speaking pummeling them with multiple legs is more enjoyable then swinging a simple sword, so unarmed attacks would be better then a resisted attack.
I would incorporate the Ki elements into functions performed by the beast, air blast could be a roar that pushes them back or even the flapping of wings.
All of which are capabilities of the beast at hand. Its not as if I'm expecting wings on a lion.
I personally use grapples as a CC tank method. I hold them down you put the boot in or I use it to hold the target back so that the squishy can run.
Your stance sounds a lot like these guys I'm thinking of joining. The story isn't limited to just the DM telling it, it also needs the players input.
Where in Grappler does it state that grapple ability is a prerequisite? Its prerequisite is 13 strength.
This means that its very reasonable to assume that Grappler grants the grapple ability.
Again I don't have the book on me right now but it more or less says that you've learnt to fight better at close combat.
Yes the spider can't grapple as standard but thematically speaking it has the potential. All it'll take is for 6 of the 8 legs to pin its target to its body and its held.
2 legs can be used to spread the web without having to shoot it so it makes sense that things held can also be webbed through a scratch your butt and spread the shit motion.
Yes real world spiders don't fire their silk but there are spiders that launch there web into the air to catch an up draft to sail off to relocate.
Latching onto a target would allow grappler to permit biting at advantage so this wiping motion should also be at advantage.
Holding the target in place would permit webbing, rear end first. So if the target's upside down that would be head first, if right side up that would be feet first.
The DM would decided how many feet per die roll score, crit 20 would be full binding in one move.
It would follow the same rules/concept of binding with rope and it would give a tighter or thicker wrapping then if shot.
Escape could be a quality of webbing role 1 weak 20 strong.
With escape being reduced the higher the roll.
D&D needs to allow for creative adaptations of abilities and functions as long as its not rule breaking, if a rule isn't precise it can be argued for interpretation and if its an ability rule it can overrule a core rule without breaking the rules.
Obviously my old group was OK with this, we didn't break the game but we did draw inspiration from various rules to bridge the gap.
An example would be if you found a baby creature and wanted it as a companion, we would follow the basic restrictions of a familiar. At no point would we have to point out that its not a familiar, it would be likened to a familiar based on:
Can it attack?
Can it move?
Can it take actions?
Answers: No, Yes it rolls initiative, Yes you can send it to fetch/take/pull and if a reaction can be trigger it can nip at someones ankle or wrist for 1d4.
Obviously animal handling would play a roll in commanding it.
Obviously spells cann't be cast through it nor could it link with you telepathically.
But there's little to nothing that clearly states companion rules in 5e so does that mean they're not allowed due to lack of rules?
No it means the DM needs to dictate what is or isn't acceptable if that opportunity presents itself.
I already clarified that my comment about the spider bite and grapple was not working was if you wanted to initiate a grapple and bite in the same turn. So I agree if a Giant Spider already had it's target in a grapple and did a bite attack, and had the grappler feat, the bite would gain advantage, there's no argument from me against that.
The purpose of my last post was to address what seemed to be your overall question:
Not sure if my train of thought is rule breaking or if these guys lack imagination.
The point of my last post was, there are no rules in the game of DND for a spider to wrap a target in silk during combat. I gave you the rules as they are in an attempt to answer your questions. You've come up with rule set of your own, but they're your rules, not the DnD rules, nor are they rules your DM has established and agreed to. DnD is incredibly flexible and allows for the creation of homebrew. However that's not what you originally asked for. You didn't ask, "How can I make this work?" You asked, "Is this against the rules?"
In an attempt to help further I outlined what would be my own concerns about the scenario and why I would not allow it. I have actually been playing a giant spider a lot lately (level 4 moon druid finding himself in a lot of basements and tunnels). I've given a fair amount of thought about why a giant spider doesn't have a mechanic to wrap up it's prey in combat since I found it odd and my comments above are actually the conclusions I came to for this scenario. Binding a creature during combat is not easily managed nor should it be as such an action has some heavy consequences on balance, which is always a concern for a DM. Balance affects the everyone at the table and has a direct influence on who is having fun.
So while you may not like the answer, it still stands: There are no rules in DnD to allow a spider to wrap it's prey in silk while in combat, even with the grappler feat. There is only the net-like effect of the ranged web attack. If you would like some homebrew rules for it that might work, I"m sure someone on the board can help you out (I don't have any because I think it's a bad idea to introduce that mechanic to combat). However, given the information you've provided about your DM I doubt he/she would be open to them and I would advise you to pick a another battle.
That said, it sounds like you're used to a much more free form game than this group is willing to provide. I feel like if you and this group try to play together, you'll just end up making each other miserable. Not because someone is trying to play the game "wrong", but because you and the group simply don't play the game for the same kind of fun and I imagine you'll just end up frustrating each other to no end.
Actually having spoken with you, someone who appears to be of a similar mindset to this DM. Its given me the tools I needed to debate my character development with this DM.
Taking your comments into consideration I've presented my PC concept to the DM.
Tho its something that they themselves would never of thought of, they are willing to accept my design and see if my creative approach could further the rest of the groups future PC's
If it fails so be it.
For my elemental wild shape druid we've agreeded on
Blue Dragon born for lighting breath weapon
Monk unarmed attacks can be done if the form has limbs to strike with and retractable claws.
Way of the 4 elements, limited to the none spell list abilities: Fangs of the Fire Snake (flaming claws), Fist of Unbroken Air (big bad wolf/beating wing), and/or Water Whip (tongue lashing).
Coupled with the druid buffs these forms should function for my play style.
Ive found a new group I'm not sure about joining.
Not sure if my train of thought is rule breaking or if these guys lack imagination.
So I thought I'd ask for some feed back.
I was wondering what your thoughts are on using off Druid abilities while in Wild Shape.
I like to take the Grappler feat and if a beast could practically restraint a target I treat it as a grapple.
A bear could pin following a multi attack. If successful, bite has advantage but claw has disadvantage and requires a pin check after the attack as the target has to be released to be struck.
A wolf could bite and hold onto a limb like an attack dog or choke out the target if I successfully attack the throat. Further attacks are foregone as long as I hold the target, but the target can take reduced bite damage as I tighten my grip.
A poisonous snake could trip up targets by binding the legs or disarm them by binding their hands/arms or choking out the target if wrapped around their neck.
My personal favorite is the giant spider, by jumping on top of the target and locking my legs around it. I could grapple and bite as well as have advantage on web. If successfully webbed, the target was fully bound head to toe and had disadvantage on strength checks to break free not to mention unable to perform either Somatic or Verbal spell components.
These guys don't think grappling should be used unless its part of the beasts ability list and not based on real world examples functionality.
The list of Feats they've given me that they think are usable in Wild Shape are things like Alert, Keen Mind, Lucky, Mobile, Skulker, and Tough.
All of which are pretty much passive skills.
I've also asked them about multi classing and they appear to only be keen on a class's physical abilities such as a Rogue, Barbarian or Monk.
This got me thinking about cross class abilities and what should or shouldn't be permitted in Wild Shape.
Do you think active Feats like Grappler, War Caster, Sentinel, and Mage Slayer can be used?
What about Unarmored Defense and Movement abilities? Can these be used in Wild Shape given that in wild shape all armour is dropped and would you use them all the time or only when the values are higher then the standard beast stats?
I got to thinking. If a Monks abilities are permitted would their Ki point based abilities also be permitted?
If so what then about the Sorcerers SP abilities?
SP can be used to replenish spent spell slots used in Wild Shape for healing
They can also be used to active Metamagic abilities.
If so then as early as level 5 (Druid 2/Sorcerer 3) your PC could have access to the Druids level 18 Beast Spells.
By spending 1 SP, the Metamagic ability Subtle Spell can be used to cast a spell without using Somatic or Verbal components but still requiring Material components. Exactly like Beast Spells with the exception that all spell types can be cast, not just Druid spells.
Wild Shape as a rule states that you can't cast spells and your ability to speak and use your hands is limited to the capabilities of the beasts you've taken the firm of.
But Beast Spells implies that its this lack of vocal and somatic abilities that prevent casing while in Wild Shape.
Also as an after thought. Would you permit the wearing of a chain that holds a Druidic and/or Arcane focus while in Wild Shape to allow for all spells to be cast be it through Subtle Spell or Beat Spells?
There are several great guides for Moon druids that cover a lot of what you're asking, but a few quick answers to your questions:
So that should cover most of your questions about what feats, class abilities etc are available in wild shape, but there's a lot of nuance to beast forms.
Your example of a bear and the <feat>Grappler</feat> feat. Multi-attack is an attack action in and of itself. It is not a fighter making an basic attack action, and also having the extra attack feature. So a bear can not mutli-attack AND grapple in the same turn. It must take it's attack action to either multi-attack or grapple. Beyond that, you're right, there's no reason that a Bear couldn't grapple someone on one turn, and gain advantage on a claw or bite (multi-attack would require that you let the target go) on the next. You could even take two turns to pin someone. Heck if you multi-classed into fighter and picked up extra attack, you could do it in one round, but you still wouldn't be able to use multi-attack and most druids don't want to blow spell and class progression by multi-classing that far.
Another thing you need to be aware of is pre-reqs. If at any point you no longer satisfy the pre-req for a feat, you can no longer use it.
Your spider example also doesn't work. You can't bite and grapple in the same turn for the same reason as above, but in addition you won't get advantage on the web attack because it's a ranged weapon attack, and any range attack in melee is at disadvantage.
Just to cover the rest of your feats, War Caster is pretty much a must for any moon druid or resilient (con) because you're going to be rolling a lot of concentration saves. The Attack of Opportunity bit does not help you out in wild shape, I'll cover why a bit later (this is true even with your metamagic workaround). Mage Slayer and Sentinal work just fine (though they have varying degrees of value, seriously go find those guides).
Monks and druid.... long and short. increased damage die doesn't help, and dipping for wis mod to armor isn't clear cut. Most creatures have natural armor that isn't specifically called out in their stat block, it's just wrapped up in their AC. This natural armor does NOT stack with monk armor bonuses. It's one or the other. Ki points still work, but you start getting into the weird action economy that I mentioned with the bear and the grappling.
Spell points, yes you can use them in beast form! Yay!, They're still almost worthless. Here' the catch:
It's that 'you can’t cast spells, and' section. A druids inability to cast spells has nothing to do with their inability to speak, or wave their hands. They simply can't cast spells in wild-shape until druid 17... flat out end of statement. I think it was less clear in some of the earlier books, but The Sage has said, a druid can not cast spells in wild shape until 17th, then he gives some mumbo jumbo explanation about how wild-shape is an inherently magic intensive state and the druid is spending all their time focusing on maintaining that state and only has a little sliver of magic mental processing available to maintain concentration on any spell they cast before going into wild-shape.
So the truth is somewhere in the middle of your expectations and your groups restrictions. I think an argument could easily be made that no other class requires quite as much understanding of the rules as a Moon druid.
I believe is ckelley717 correct about the Bear, but not the Giant Spider.
Multiattack excludes you from the Attack Action.
If you use a single Bite or Claw or the Spider's Bite that is an Attack Action with your (natural) weapon attacks.
That said Grappler says nothing about using the Attack Action. It says if you are grappling an enemy you have Advantage on Attack Rolls, and gives you a special action to "pin" your opponant, but that's super dumb because you are BOTH restrained. So only people not in the grapple get Advantage on attacks. (You have Adv & Dis so you roll normally).
If you're trying to use Tavern Brawler to initiate grapples as a bonus action, that won't work either.
Here is the problem with Tavern Brawler it states "When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike" and attacks in Wild Shape are not unarmed strikes. They are weapon attacks. The brown bear says "Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d8 + 4) piercing damage."
Also nothing in Grappling says the enemy can't cast spells while they are grappled. Your speed drops to 0.
As a note the Giant Octopus is a favorite for this because it can hold it's breath for an hour and has 15' reach AND grapples. So it's possible to hold the enemy in a grapple where they can't attack you back. Plus the target is restrained. Also Note Restrained targets can STILL cast spells, they just have Disadvantage on attacks rolls, but Spell Saves are uneffected.
Side Note. Multi-classing the Moon Druid is hard because the moon druid is very dependent on level, because from 2-5th they have CR:1 creatures, 6-8th is CR:2, etc...
5th lvl also gets you magical attacks which is very important for overcoming damage resistance.
So EVERY level you sink outside of Druid is ultimately lowering your long term power and really needs to be worth it.
Common Multiclass combos:
1) 1 levels in Monk means out of Wild Shape you are good in combat and have good AC naked. You lose the ability to use a Shield though. It's a good fluff for "becoming the beast by foregoing weapons and armor" and in Wild Shape your AC is still Wis + Dex, if you keep pumping your Wisdom every 4 levels you'll have a rock hard AC even as a bear. Low AC is the flaw in Beasts.
You can "unarmed strike" in Wild Shape, but your not using your natural attacks which are probably superior.
2) 1 level in Barbarian. This is especially good to start with, because you get Martial Weapon Proficiency and 12hp at 1st level. Then you can RAGE as a Beast and so all your attacks get +2 damage while raging and you have resistance to non magical attacks. It also gives you AC of CON+DEX, which in Wild Shape is generally 0-1 point of better AC.
3) 1 level of Sorcerer. This benefits from improving your spell slot progression, 4 cantrips and much better attack/damage cantrips, but they are based on your CHA not WIS. This is important because spell slots are how you heal in Wild Shape. Common sub-classes are either Dragon for the 13+Dex AC which applies to your Wild Shape or Shadow Sorcerer to give all your Wild Shapes Dark Vision to 120' and Strength of the Grave so it gives you one last chance to stay IN the fight and not drop to 0.
3a) You CAN'T cast spells in Wild Shape, ignore Somatic Components with Metamagic doesn't help. It's a FULL STOP you can't do it, until 18th level. Being an Elemental at 10th still doesn't allow it even though you have a humanoid shape and can speak.
War Caster (to keep Concentration), Sentinel, and Mage Slayer can all be used when in Wild Shape. Nothing about them says otherwise.
The only shaky ground is Racial Abilities. Because only those based on form can't be used.
So if you have Darkvision you lose that, but a Drow in Wild Shape doesn't lose Sunlight Sensitive, because it's not her eyes that are sensitive it's a supernatural quality.
Dragonborn can still use Breath Weapons in Wild Shape.
A Tiefling can't use Hellish Rebuke though, because it's still casting a spell, until lvl 18.
Half Orcs should keep Relentless Endurance and Savage Attacks
Halfings should keep Lucky and Brave, but maybe not Nimbleness.
Lizardfolk lose Natural Armor, maybe Hold Breath. They should keep Bite as long as the Wild Shape form has a Bite attack.
Some are clear cut some are not.
The only time I've ever used Grapple in Wild Shape was when a Ghost possessed a party member, and my bear grappled him to hold him in place until the ghost left.
The 2nd was when I turned into a Female Steader. In Out of the Abyss they are Beasts in MtoF, they are now monstrosity.
If you move while grappling you halve you movement unless they are 2 sizes smaller (so small). I enjoyed grappling a target then using Extraordinary Leap to jump 90ft, then drop them.
I should have said "you can't bite and initiate a grapple in the same turn". My bad, thought that's what the OP wanted to do, but after re-reading that's possibly not that case.
I should of worded the attack process better.
With giant spider if grappling a target you can bite with advantage as its a normal attack which benefits from grappling.
Not attack then grapple, or bite then web, sorry my bad.
But web should also gain advantage and not be considered a ranged spell in this situation, as well as being stronger as it would be a controlled web application, much like how IRL spiders wrap their prey.
Yes yes it is a ranged spell but in this situation its a natural function where a spider would hold its prey and spin them around while encasing them.
I should have stated with regards to the bear grapples that it would have been a multi class with either a barbarian, fighter or ranger for their 5th level extra attacks.
I haven't used grapple Wild shape in a while and my last group was all for creative design. So I'm guessing these guys might be a little more precise when it comes to rules and wording.
My last Druid was classed with a necro wizard flavoured life giving over necro energy, just remade undead into plants, everything else was untouched. Not sure if it would fly with these guys.
Now that I'm looking at a new druid I want to try a mix I've never used before which is Monk or Sorcerer (never touched sorcerer before at all).
If Metamagic Subtle Spell can't be an exploit to bypass the no spells rule then its not a viable 2ndry class for my planned direction.
Shame, I thought I was onto something.
If barbarians rage or Dragonborn fire breath can be used in Wild shape then Ki points shouldn't be a problem.
I see no issue with using Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense or Step of the Wind, all of which use Ki points. Way of the Open Hand also doesn't have any conflicts I can see.
I don't have the book on my right now but there are about 3/4 Way of the Four Elements that don't cast any spells and are wholly unique for that subclass, flaming tentacles, air blasts, water manipulation that sort of thing.
Would these be usable in form or are they also classed as spells even tho they don't appear in the spell list anywhere.
What about unarmored defense and movement, are they carried over in Wild Shape?
As I've said I've not used a monk druid hybrid before and my last group was supportive of creativity and would have allowed the barbarian unarmored AC to be used if it was higher then the beasts form.
So what exactly is the rules on that?
If I can present a plausible argument to the DM and they agree then I can learn to work within the confines of their limitations.
If they want only generic PCs then its not a group for me.
As Per Giant Spiders and Web.
It's not a spell attack, it's a Ranged Weapon Attack. So it technically benefits from the Ranged Fighting Style.
Any target hit by the Web is restrained, and so everyone gets Adv on attack rolls unless they succeed in a DC:12 Strength test or hit it's AC: 10 dealing 5hp... both of which are pretty easy. Even though the target would have DisAdv on attack rolls hitting AC:10 is pretty easy, and a dagger can cut through 5hp.
I've been in games and used the Giant Spider form after a combat to "tie up" baddies for interrogation.
Ok, you were talking about getting 5 lvl of a Martial Class to let your Bear form attack twice as an Attack Action.
This does technically work but I caution against it for a few reasons.
Fighting Styles are generally not compatible with natural weapons (Giant Spider is an edge case)
In my opinion, and it's only that. This requires 7th lvl before you can do it. That means you are Fighter:5, Druid:2. This means you can Claw twice instead of using the Multiattack to Claw and Bite.
On the other hand a 7th level Druid can turn into a Cave Bear with +7 to hit and +5 damage on each attack instead of +5 to hit and +4 damage, and has 8 more hit points. 8th lvl is when you gain access to forms with Fly.
It's doable and if you have a cool concept it and it works and you're having fun that's great. I'd just be cautious because you'll probably be more Fighter then Moon Druid, and so your forms may start lagging behind and not being as useful.
As for Grappling. I'd read these sections carefully. In my opinion grappling in 5e isn't like grappling in 3.5e. It's still useful, but not as devistating as it used to be.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/combat#Grappling
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Grappled
I'd also re-read Wild Shape like 5 times. It's a confusing section. Key Points are below
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. This is the main wiggle room, but it's very abstract. Keep in mind there is discussion over magical equipment, because magical equipment does autoresize, so there is discussion if magical gear could or would change with the form. The General gentleman's agreement I've seen is it will if the new form as anatomy to wear it.
Yes Unarmored Defense and movement bonuses from class are carried over into Wild Shape. Racial Traits are also carried over but on a "does it require anatomy to do so"?
The reason. Remember you can HAVE multiple AC Calculations but you only use one (the best) of them. Also remember you can only ever have 1 Unarmored Defense, so monk/barbarian multiclasses only get the ability from their first class.
You hit the most important thing. Talk to your DM. Your DM probably has NEVER considered all of these possibilities. So bring it up ahead of time, tell him what you're thinking and then give him a week to think about it and flip through the forums.
Moon Druids are weird class and depend on a lot from the GM.
One thing I hate about the Moon Druid is the idea of "finding new forms". No other class is as restricted by GM fiat as the Druid.
As an example in a game I'm running I have a Warforged Moon Druid. Normally the +1 AC for being Warforged would probably not carry over to Wild Shape. I decided to give the player a choice at 2nd lvl. He can EITHER get the +1 AC for being Warforged, but he will then always look like a horrific transformer and obviously be not natural. Or he can look like a natural creature and not gain the AC.
The player choose to look like a horrifying semi-organic transformer.
Careful, you're making assumptions about the Giant Spider that there are no game rules to support. The web attack in the giant spider's stat block specifically calls it out as a ranged weapon attack. According to the game, for all intents and purposes it functions like bow and arrow, with no melee combat functionality. Yes in the real world, web spinning spiders wrap their prey, but the game has no clear cut mechanics on how that works so you'll be asking your DM to create a custom rule set. While the mechanic may seem cut and dry, I don't think it is, here's a list of concerns I think would need to be addressed.
I honestly think DnD spiders can't wrap a target in silk during combat and I would't allow it if I were a DM. If you look at the mechanics of the Giant Spider's attacks it appears that they're intended to allow the spider to fight until it's prey reaches 0 HP where it's paralyzed or dead, then the spider can leisurely wrap it's prey in silk.
Yes all the key point abilities should work, but remember that with flurry of blows the additional attacks would be with the monk's martial arts damage die, not the wild-shaped forms natural attacks. All those abilities work, but as with flurry of blows, unarmed attacks is not the same as a beasts natural weapons. As stated before, unarmored defense works as does the barbarians bonus based on Con, however many beasts don't have great con and the monk ability is generally better for AC increase. Unarmored movement is a bit trickier since most animals have natural armor it's generally a DM call. (I'm guessing yours is going to say no).
Now regarding multi-classing. It sounds like you're planning to go pretty deep into some of your secondary classes. This is generally a bad idea. Remember that even though Moon Druids get improved wild-shape they are first and foremost a caster class. They get a lot of their power from their spells combined with wild-shape. Going too deep into another class starts to mess with your spell progression and spell slots if you choose a martial secondary class. In addition your wild-shape progression gets hampered because it's based purely on druid level, not character level. So if you went 5 levels of fighter, and 5 levels of druid, you're still only turning into a giant spider, dire wolf or brown bear at level 10 with their measly +5 or +6 to hit, and not a whole lot of HP to make up for their mediocre AC even with monk or barb buffs, with very few magic items to help improve that situation (remember wild-shape does interesting stuff with your magic items and it's basically up to DM to determine what you're allowed to keep). If you enjoy a moment of brilliance every couple of gaming sessions while generally being a sub par combat character, a build like that could work, but if you want to be a steady contributor to combat it's generally better to only dip one or two levels in another class.
LOL, that's bonkers. I'm imagining Bender getting druid powers and just rolling with it, with lots of complaints about being a meat-bag/shield.
Fullmetal Bunny.
I'm aware, something like 30/60 or 90 or something, no idea why I wrote spell.
When I design a PC I plan for a long term direction, not just for the campaign at hand and focus on RP not min/max.
If at the end of this campaign and I'm at 10th level, its the experiences from this campaign that has governed my development.
I still have my road map laid out but I'm prepared for detours and may never get to the target due to forced experiences, just like in real life.
In later campaigns if the starting level is 10-12 instead of creating a new PC I'll use this one adjusting their level if needed, stating it as due to their journey here, ambushes, small quests along the way and what not. The past campaign(s) are now incorporated into their back story and shape their persona.
I require limitations and hurdles and always impose disadvantages to the PC builds to stop me from falling into old habits/play styles (like in Skyrim the bow is just so tempting, so I refuse to pick it up in order to avoid temptation no mater what) so to ensure that I'm not going a heavy moon build I'm looking to utilize elemental attacks as well as rapid attacks there go Ki.
As the rules are fluid in that if an ability's rules break core rules, the ability's rules overrule the core rules rules. So I thought that Subtle Spell might be able to bypass the need for beast spells while being limited to SP count for use, its not like I'd be spamming fire ball in Rat form or anything as there's only going to be limited uses.
But the consensus is that Wild Shape rules forbid it, so be it.
There's still the option of Ki, the Four elements state cast this spell or that spell in all but a few of the abilities, emphasis on Cast. So those spells are a no go. But what about the ones that don't state cast, they just describe the effect such a fire tentacles that can push or pull a single target.
Like I said with my last Druid/Wizard I imposed limitations on spell types centered around plants, stone and arcane (life force) I reflavored some abilities to fit the narrative substituting strengths and weakness with others and combining effects and process.
Nothing was rule breaking other than I tweaked necrotic for plant, life feeding on the dead instead of giving the dead life.
The concept was built around the cycle of life, from death comes life from life comes death. Towns and Villages were the natural habitat of a breed of humanoids that had its own ego system, so they were fine, but like locust or hordes of the undead spreading, new settlements ripping up the homes of other creatures just to expand wasn't acceptable and had to be stopped.
I would therefore be having a personality trait that forces this combination of beast and elements.
If I took a favourite form that has attacks that aren't affective against a monster type or I can I have extra limbs, such as a bug or spider, thematically speaking pummeling them with multiple legs is more enjoyable then swinging a simple sword, so unarmed attacks would be better then a resisted attack.
I would incorporate the Ki elements into functions performed by the beast, air blast could be a roar that pushes them back or even the flapping of wings.
All of which are capabilities of the beast at hand. Its not as if I'm expecting wings on a lion.
I personally use grapples as a CC tank method. I hold them down you put the boot in or I use it to hold the target back so that the squishy can run.
Ckelley717
Your stance sounds a lot like these guys I'm thinking of joining. The story isn't limited to just the DM telling it, it also needs the players input.
Where in Grappler does it state that grapple ability is a prerequisite? Its prerequisite is 13 strength.
This means that its very reasonable to assume that Grappler grants the grapple ability.
Again I don't have the book on me right now but it more or less says that you've learnt to fight better at close combat.
Yes the spider can't grapple as standard but thematically speaking it has the potential. All it'll take is for 6 of the 8 legs to pin its target to its body and its held.
2 legs can be used to spread the web without having to shoot it so it makes sense that things held can also be webbed through a scratch your butt and spread the shit motion.
Yes real world spiders don't fire their silk but there are spiders that launch there web into the air to catch an up draft to sail off to relocate.
Latching onto a target would allow grappler to permit biting at advantage so this wiping motion should also be at advantage.
Holding the target in place would permit webbing, rear end first. So if the target's upside down that would be head first, if right side up that would be feet first.
The DM would decided how many feet per die roll score, crit 20 would be full binding in one move.
It would follow the same rules/concept of binding with rope and it would give a tighter or thicker wrapping then if shot.
Escape could be a quality of webbing role 1 weak 20 strong.
With escape being reduced the higher the roll.
D&D needs to allow for creative adaptations of abilities and functions as long as its not rule breaking, if a rule isn't precise it can be argued for interpretation and if its an ability rule it can overrule a core rule without breaking the rules.
Obviously my old group was OK with this, we didn't break the game but we did draw inspiration from various rules to bridge the gap.
An example would be if you found a baby creature and wanted it as a companion, we would follow the basic restrictions of a familiar. At no point would we have to point out that its not a familiar, it would be likened to a familiar based on:
Can it attack?
Can it move?
Can it take actions?
Answers: No, Yes it rolls initiative, Yes you can send it to fetch/take/pull and if a reaction can be trigger it can nip at someones ankle or wrist for 1d4.
Obviously animal handling would play a roll in commanding it.
Obviously spells cann't be cast through it nor could it link with you telepathically.
But there's little to nothing that clearly states companion rules in 5e so does that mean they're not allowed due to lack of rules?
No it means the DM needs to dictate what is or isn't acceptable if that opportunity presents itself.
I already clarified that my comment about the spider bite and grapple was not working was if you wanted to initiate a grapple and bite in the same turn. So I agree if a Giant Spider already had it's target in a grapple and did a bite attack, and had the grappler feat, the bite would gain advantage, there's no argument from me against that.
The purpose of my last post was to address what seemed to be your overall question:
The point of my last post was, there are no rules in the game of DND for a spider to wrap a target in silk during combat. I gave you the rules as they are in an attempt to answer your questions. You've come up with rule set of your own, but they're your rules, not the DnD rules, nor are they rules your DM has established and agreed to. DnD is incredibly flexible and allows for the creation of homebrew. However that's not what you originally asked for. You didn't ask, "How can I make this work?" You asked, "Is this against the rules?"
In an attempt to help further I outlined what would be my own concerns about the scenario and why I would not allow it. I have actually been playing a giant spider a lot lately (level 4 moon druid finding himself in a lot of basements and tunnels). I've given a fair amount of thought about why a giant spider doesn't have a mechanic to wrap up it's prey in combat since I found it odd and my comments above are actually the conclusions I came to for this scenario. Binding a creature during combat is not easily managed nor should it be as such an action has some heavy consequences on balance, which is always a concern for a DM. Balance affects the everyone at the table and has a direct influence on who is having fun.
So while you may not like the answer, it still stands: There are no rules in DnD to allow a spider to wrap it's prey in silk while in combat, even with the grappler feat. There is only the net-like effect of the ranged web attack. If you would like some homebrew rules for it that might work, I"m sure someone on the board can help you out (I don't have any because I think it's a bad idea to introduce that mechanic to combat). However, given the information you've provided about your DM I doubt he/she would be open to them and I would advise you to pick a another battle.
That said, it sounds like you're used to a much more free form game than this group is willing to provide. I feel like if you and this group try to play together, you'll just end up making each other miserable. Not because someone is trying to play the game "wrong", but because you and the group simply don't play the game for the same kind of fun and I imagine you'll just end up frustrating each other to no end.
Ckelley717
Actually having spoken with you, someone who appears to be of a similar mindset to this DM. Its given me the tools I needed to debate my character development with this DM.
Taking your comments into consideration I've presented my PC concept to the DM.
Tho its something that they themselves would never of thought of, they are willing to accept my design and see if my creative approach could further the rest of the groups future PC's
If it fails so be it.
For my elemental wild shape druid we've agreeded on
Blue Dragon born for lighting breath weapon
Monk unarmed attacks can be done if the form has limbs to strike with and retractable claws.
Way of the 4 elements, limited to the none spell list abilities: Fangs of the Fire Snake (flaming claws), Fist of Unbroken Air (big bad wolf/beating wing), and/or Water Whip (tongue lashing).
Coupled with the druid buffs these forms should function for my play style.
Thanks again for the banter.
Cool beans.