Yo! Has anyone taken a look at this subclass? i know 3rd party stuff isnt the most balanced stuff but the amount of power the Circle of dragons gives a full caster is insane. I cant tell where the class wants the power to be because it gives you the HP of an ancient dragon (temp hp) with the attacks of a young the breath weapon power of a wyrmling (size around young level) and movement of a wyrmling. While the breath weapon is once per min and can get to a 30ft cone the damage only goes up to 5d6 which is laughable at 14th level tho because of the power of the rest of the subclass its hard to ask for more power to make the breath weapon better.
Anyways id love to know peoples thoughts on the subclass bc all in all i love it tho its over and under tuned in areas.
Love this new druid subclass (free link). (IMO druids should also be allowed to WS into some non-beasts, and a subclass is one way that could be done). I agree that the temp HP is really the only feature that needs to be modified to make it balanced. I think anywhere between the standard temp HP = your druid level to the Moon druid's temp HP = 3*Level would be fair. I don't think the temp HPs should be greater than the Moon druid, which is basically the druid subclass that is the elite WS subclass.
Re flying, given than flying is essential to dragons (and that Wizards get access to Fly at Level 5), I'd push the flying ability to Level 6 instead of Level 10.
I like how the AC scales by level, which tracks with the natural AC of dragons. IMO this subclass offers a lot of great RP opportunities, e.g., with other dragons, kobolds, commoners, etc.
Re casting while in WS, at Level 10 Draconic druids can cast any druid spell up to a Level 3 spell. Although Moon druids can cast 3 spells > Level 3, arguably this makes the Draconic druid the best WS caster subclass, which doesn't really make sense IMO. I'd understand if a DM said no to this (unless the DM also allowed all druids to cast spells during WS up to level 3).
Re size, I think waiting until L14 to WS into a large dragon is fair/balanced.
Question for anyone who knows: can you WS into a different type of dragon each time your WS or does the subclass limit you one type of dragon forever? RAW, it sounds like the former.
I honestly don’t think the temp HP needs to be nerfed all that much if at all. This subclass is what I think a Druid SHOULD feel like. In the past when I would wild shape into a mammoth or some other giant creature, it still never really felt powerful. The ideal thing to do would be to just stay in human form and cast spells to actually get some damage out and provide utility/heals. BUT FINALLY I get the chance to frontline and just tank hits without being forced to find every little tiny way to up my AC and resistances.
This subclass is actually weaker in my opinion than the bear heart barbarian whose resistance to almost everything does basically the same thing as giving the dragon temp HP equal to normal HP, but the barbarian still gets to have 20+ AC easy from level 4+ while the dragon is chilling with 16-17 at lvl 10-13.
Furthermore, to get the max effectiveness out of multiple wild shapes that might increase the Druid’s longevity past that of the bear heart barbarian, it requires forethought, planning, and support from other healers to guarantee you don’t just get wiped in a turn while you’re out of wild shape.
while i dont think the temp HP needs a nerf (my table went back on the nerf after playing with it for awhile) id gladly trade some of that temp HP for some better scaling on the breath weapon
My main concern regarding this is that it uses ALL your normal character statistics, while Wild Shape uses the shape's physical stats iirc. This kind forces you to split ability investments further into your physical stats to actually make dragon shape better
My main concern regarding this is that it uses ALL your normal character statistics, while Wild Shape uses the shape's physical stats iirc. This kind forces you to split ability investments further into your physical stats to actually make dragon shape better
Not really. Any character wanting a decent Concentration check, or plans to be in melee is going to have a somewhat decent Con. The Dex mod for AC is capped at +2, which is 14, and you can use Wisdom for the Bite and Claw attacks.
Bite. When you take the Attack action, you can use your dagger-like teeth to make an unarmed strike. You can use your Wisdom modifier, instead of Strength, for the attack and damage rolls with your bite. If you hit with it, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d12 + your Strength or Wisdom modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike.
If you don’t know where I am, I’m either sleeping or roleplaying. If I’m doing neither of those things, except the worst. (Do not actually expect the worst) If you need to talk then PM me. Head Acolyte of The Tree Cult.
Question for anyone who knows: can you WS into a different type of dragon each time your WS or does the subclass limit you one type of dragon forever? RAW, it sounds like the former.
Where you able to figure out if you could change what type of dragon form you take or is it one and done. Or DM discretion.
Question for anyone who knows: can you WS into a different type of dragon each time your WS or does the subclass limit you one type of dragon forever? RAW, it sounds like the former.
Where you able to figure out if you could change what type of dragon form you take or is it one and done. Or DM discretion.
You can choose each time. It explicitly says so:
"When you use your dragon shape, you determine what type of dragon to transform into."
If you don’t know where I am, I’m either sleeping or roleplaying. If I’m doing neither of those things, except the worst. (Do not actually expect the worst) If you need to talk then PM me. Head Acolyte of The Tree Cult.
Yo! Has anyone taken a look at this subclass? i know 3rd party stuff isnt the most balanced stuff but the amount of power the Circle of dragons gives a full caster is insane. I cant tell where the class wants the power to be because it gives you the HP of an ancient dragon (temp hp) with the attacks of a young the breath weapon power of a wyrmling (size around young level) and movement of a wyrmling. While the breath weapon is once per min and can get to a 30ft cone the damage only goes up to 5d6 which is laughable at 14th level tho because of the power of the rest of the subclass its hard to ask for more power to make the breath weapon better.
Anyways id love to know peoples thoughts on the subclass bc all in all i love it tho its over and under tuned in areas.
My dm thinks that it is very overpowered due to the fact that I could wildshape into a dragon but I believe that it can be balanced.
how has your table balanced it? mine has nerfed the temp hp but in turn also buffed the breath to D10s and an amount of die equal to your PB
Just wondering about nerfing the temp hp. How much of a nerf are we talking about? None at all? Half of the druid's max HP?
I do like the idea of buffing the breath weapon a bit. Personally, I would go d8s instead of d10s, but I have zero playtesting with the subclass.
we went with half max hp but we buffed the Damage bc it was such a massive cut tho we are still in the early stages so its hard to tell
Love this new druid subclass (free link). (IMO druids should also be allowed to WS into some non-beasts, and a subclass is one way that could be done). I agree that the temp HP is really the only feature that needs to be modified to make it balanced. I think anywhere between the standard temp HP = your druid level to the Moon druid's temp HP = 3*Level would be fair. I don't think the temp HPs should be greater than the Moon druid, which is basically the druid subclass that is the elite WS subclass.
Re flying, given than flying is essential to dragons (and that Wizards get access to Fly at Level 5), I'd push the flying ability to Level 6 instead of Level 10.
I like how the AC scales by level, which tracks with the natural AC of dragons. IMO this subclass offers a lot of great RP opportunities, e.g., with other dragons, kobolds, commoners, etc.
Re casting while in WS, at Level 10 Draconic druids can cast any druid spell up to a Level 3 spell. Although Moon druids can cast 3 spells > Level 3, arguably this makes the Draconic druid the best WS caster subclass, which doesn't really make sense IMO. I'd understand if a DM said no to this (unless the DM also allowed all druids to cast spells during WS up to level 3).
Re size, I think waiting until L14 to WS into a large dragon is fair/balanced.
Question for anyone who knows: can you WS into a different type of dragon each time your WS or does the subclass limit you one type of dragon forever? RAW, it sounds like the former.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
I honestly don’t think the temp HP needs to be nerfed all that much if at all. This subclass is what I think a Druid SHOULD feel like. In the past when I would wild shape into a mammoth or some other giant creature, it still never really felt powerful. The ideal thing to do would be to just stay in human form and cast spells to actually get some damage out and provide utility/heals. BUT FINALLY I get the chance to frontline and just tank hits without being forced to find every little tiny way to up my AC and resistances.
This subclass is actually weaker in my opinion than the bear heart barbarian whose resistance to almost everything does basically the same thing as giving the dragon temp HP equal to normal HP, but the barbarian still gets to have 20+ AC easy from level 4+ while the dragon is chilling with 16-17 at lvl 10-13.
Furthermore, to get the max effectiveness out of multiple wild shapes that might increase the Druid’s longevity past that of the bear heart barbarian, it requires forethought, planning, and support from other healers to guarantee you don’t just get wiped in a turn while you’re out of wild shape.
while i dont think the temp HP needs a nerf (my table went back on the nerf after playing with it for awhile) id gladly trade some of that temp HP for some better scaling on the breath weapon
My main concern regarding this is that it uses ALL your normal character statistics, while Wild Shape uses the shape's physical stats iirc. This kind forces you to split ability investments further into your physical stats to actually make dragon shape better
Not really. Any character wanting a decent Concentration check, or plans to be in melee is going to have a somewhat decent Con. The Dex mod for AC is capped at +2, which is 14, and you can use Wisdom for the Bite and Claw attacks.
Bite. When you take the Attack action, you can use your dagger-like teeth to make an unarmed strike. You can use your Wisdom modifier, instead of Strength, for the attack and damage rolls with your bite. If you hit with it, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d12 + your Strength or Wisdom modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike.
My name is title
Lightning flashes, it creates ash. The ash forms a human.
If you don’t know where I am, I’m either sleeping or roleplaying. If I’m doing neither of those things, except the worst. (Do not actually expect the worst) If you need to talk then PM me. Head Acolyte of The Tree Cult.
Question for anyone who knows: can you WS into a different type of dragon each time your WS or does the subclass limit you one type of dragon forever? RAW, it sounds like the former.
Where you able to figure out if you could change what type of dragon form you take or is it one and done. Or DM discretion.
You can choose each time. It explicitly says so:
"When you use your dragon shape, you determine what type of dragon to transform into."
pronouns: he/she/they
Circleofdragons has arrived. Is this about me?
Lightning flashes, it creates ash. The ash forms a human.
If you don’t know where I am, I’m either sleeping or roleplaying. If I’m doing neither of those things, except the worst. (Do not actually expect the worst) If you need to talk then PM me. Head Acolyte of The Tree Cult.
So each time this Sub Wild shapes it doubles it's HP... seems a little OP
crap he knows! cheese it everyone!