He is a level 8 Circle of the Land Elf. He enjoys casting lightning bolt and misty step rather than wild shape, but has also been known to run up and use his daggers. He’s still pretty new and I think is having trouble finding his identity in game.
Before this campaign, he played a one-shot with us as a rogue, so I think when he was trying to be on watch with a crossbow recently he thought he should consider multiclassing into rogue.
From what I’ve gathered, all of the benefits of doing so are the same as being a goblin, so is this really a good idea for a new player. If so, how much would you recommend and what subclass?
Or... you could let him discover his own path, and learn the game by making choices. Some will be great, some will not be, but that's how people learn. When you first started playing, did someone dictate to you what you had to play and why, or did you try things out that others might not have considered. If they ask for advice, give it to them. If they do not ask, maybe just let them play?
BTW one of my first characters after transitioning from Basic/Expert rules to Advanced D&D (also called first edition) was a Druid/Thief and it was quite a successful combo. That character didn't use wildshape for combat, it used it for escape, infiltration, and spying.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I guess I see your point. I just know how I feel making decisions with permanent consequences and would hate for a lack of guidance to make a bad situation worse.
I’m not familiar at all with older DnD, so I’m not sure how that setup translates to moddern play, but I’ll take your word for it.
I wouldn't personally multiclass a Druid and mess with the spell progression and abilities, but that is me. If he wants to MC to rogue, let him. Sounds like it may be more fun for him.
Fair enough. I suppose that makes sense. Thanks for your input!
If he wants to go Rogue, I would point him in the direction of the Arcane Trickster. It would let him maintain his caster/martial identity while picking up some spells to augment his melee and out-of-combat abilities. Spells like Message, Booming Blade, Shield, Disguise Self and Invisibility could all be nice pickups, and with his Druid levels, he will have lots of spell slots to play with.
Ah ok. I see where you’re going with it. Good idea. Thank you! If he goes that route I’ll be sure to let him know. It will likely be awhile before we level up that far, but I do think it’s good to have a plan, so this means a lot. Hopefully it helps him too!
I like the idea of him going multi Arcane Trickster and he would get access to spells (from wizard) that could be useful as a druid....he gets some of that from Circle of land in 2024 is pretty flexible about that but Still a good option for spells he won't get that way.
but the question is, what does he want from the rogue levels? He may want more classic thief type abilities. Here is an experiment: If you have access to DNDB character sheets, create a couple of different versions of the druid/thief multiclass at level...let's say 12 (so you get a rogue subclass, asi/feat) and show him both to see which he likes better and one of a land druid at that level (or just temporarily raise him current character's druid level). The druid gets more land spells at level 9 and nature's ward at 10.
I just did this with a homebrew d&d 5e 2024 cyberpunk campaign that is starting. I made a level 1 gnome druid (will be stars) and level 1 human wizard (evoker) to see which i liked (etter (I scaled them up to level 10 future project them). I went with druid, although the wizard can be a backup character. We have access to new and 3rd party subclasses and spells (the spells mostly for wizards); the new subclasses i didn't take but I did take one new cantrip for each (evil eye for druid, moment to think for wizard).
That could work. It sounds like something similar to what I do all the time. Next time I talk to him, I’ll advise him to plan out a few versions of his character: one pure land druid, one land/thief and one land/arcane trickster. Thanks!
I would have him take a look at the Trickery Cleric subclass. This would give him some cool shenanigans and keep his full caster levels. He could also get a boatload of new cantrips and spell preps.
If he insists on rogue, I would encourage him to consider Thief Rogue. The ability to use magical devices with your bonus action is insanely powerful, and could potentially allow him to do some pretty impressive stuff with the right gear.
The Arcane Trickster (in my opinion) as a dip is underpowered. It takes 3 levels just to get a few cantrips and a few level 1 wizard spells. There are some good builds that start as rogue and then move onto a full caster class. But I feel like after druid 8 arcane trickster three would be very underwhelming.
Ranger might also be an intriguing option because you get some unique combat spells and free hunter’s mark. The Hunter subclass combined with hunter’s mark can outperform 3 levels of rogue. Gloomstalker is always popular as well. Ranger would get him a fighting class, weapon specials, half caster levels, and that free hunter’s mark is always nice.
One final option he might consider is fighter. I know, I know, Eldritch Fighter is the one everyone thinks of first. But if it is available, I think Arcane Archer works very well with casters. With action surge you can fire off both arcane shots in one round, and with the right setup this can be incredibly potent. For instance if there is a hallway full of baddies you can fire piercing arrow off twice with magic weapon activated and a concentration buff like Hunter’s Mark or better and the damage really adds up! :D
He is a level 8 Circle of the Land Elf. He enjoys casting lightning bolt and misty step rather than wild shape, but has also been known to run up and use his daggers. He’s still pretty new and I think is having trouble finding his identity in game.
Before this campaign, he played a one-shot with us as a rogue, so I think when he was trying to be on watch with a crossbow recently he thought he should consider multiclassing into rogue.
From what I’ve gathered, all of the benefits of doing so are the same as being a goblin, so is this really a good idea for a new player. If so, how much would you recommend and what subclass?
Or... you could let him discover his own path, and learn the game by making choices. Some will be great, some will not be, but that's how people learn. When you first started playing, did someone dictate to you what you had to play and why, or did you try things out that others might not have considered. If they ask for advice, give it to them. If they do not ask, maybe just let them play?
BTW one of my first characters after transitioning from Basic/Expert rules to Advanced D&D (also called first edition) was a Druid/Thief and it was quite a successful combo. That character didn't use wildshape for combat, it used it for escape, infiltration, and spying.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I guess I see your point. I just know how I feel making decisions with permanent consequences and would hate for a lack of guidance to make a bad situation worse.
I’m not familiar at all with older DnD, so I’m not sure how that setup translates to moddern play, but I’ll take your word for it.
Thank you for your input.
I wouldn't personally multiclass a Druid and mess with the spell progression and abilities, but that is me. If he wants to MC to rogue, let him. Sounds like it may be more fun for him.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
Fair enough. I suppose that makes sense. Thanks for your input!
If he wants to go Rogue, I would point him in the direction of the Arcane Trickster. It would let him maintain his caster/martial identity while picking up some spells to augment his melee and out-of-combat abilities. Spells like Message, Booming Blade, Shield, Disguise Self and Invisibility could all be nice pickups, and with his Druid levels, he will have lots of spell slots to play with.
Ah ok. I see where you’re going with it. Good idea. Thank you! If he goes that route I’ll be sure to let him know. It will likely be awhile before we level up that far, but I do think it’s good to have a plan, so this means a lot. Hopefully it helps him too!
I like the idea of him going multi Arcane Trickster and he would get access to spells (from wizard) that could be useful as a druid....he gets some of that from Circle of land in 2024 is pretty flexible about that but Still a good option for spells he won't get that way.
but the question is, what does he want from the rogue levels? He may want more classic thief type abilities. Here is an experiment: If you have access to DNDB character sheets, create a couple of different versions of the druid/thief multiclass at level...let's say 12 (so you get a rogue subclass, asi/feat) and show him both to see which he likes better and one of a land druid at that level (or just temporarily raise him current character's druid level). The druid gets more land spells at level 9 and nature's ward at 10.
I just did this with a homebrew d&d 5e 2024 cyberpunk campaign that is starting. I made a level 1 gnome druid (will be stars) and level 1 human wizard (evoker) to see which i liked (etter (I scaled them up to level 10 future project them). I went with druid, although the wizard can be a backup character. We have access to new and 3rd party subclasses and spells (the spells mostly for wizards); the new subclasses i didn't take but I did take one new cantrip for each (evil eye for druid, moment to think for wizard).
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
That could work. It sounds like something similar to what I do all the time. Next time I talk to him, I’ll advise him to plan out a few versions of his character: one pure land druid, one land/thief and one land/arcane trickster. Thanks!
I would have him take a look at the Trickery Cleric subclass. This would give him some cool shenanigans and keep his full caster levels. He could also get a boatload of new cantrips and spell preps.
If he insists on rogue, I would encourage him to consider Thief Rogue. The ability to use magical devices with your bonus action is insanely powerful, and could potentially allow him to do some pretty impressive stuff with the right gear.
The Arcane Trickster (in my opinion) as a dip is underpowered. It takes 3 levels just to get a few cantrips and a few level 1 wizard spells. There are some good builds that start as rogue and then move onto a full caster class. But I feel like after druid 8 arcane trickster three would be very underwhelming.
Ranger might also be an intriguing option because you get some unique combat spells and free hunter’s mark. The Hunter subclass combined with hunter’s mark can outperform 3 levels of rogue. Gloomstalker is always popular as well. Ranger would get him a fighting class, weapon specials, half caster levels, and that free hunter’s mark is always nice.
One final option he might consider is fighter. I know, I know, Eldritch Fighter is the one everyone thinks of first. But if it is available, I think Arcane Archer works very well with casters. With action surge you can fire off both arcane shots in one round, and with the right setup this can be incredibly potent. For instance if there is a hallway full of baddies you can fire piercing arrow off twice with magic weapon activated and a concentration buff like Hunter’s Mark or better and the damage really adds up! :D