I created my first subclass tonight, Based off the official circle of the shepherd, but changed up to be more about pet's and animals than using the spirit totem. I took some from other circles as well, but tried to optimize them a bit. I was hoping to get some feedback on it as I feel that with perfect rolls, it becomes a bit too powerful. Thanks in advance!
I like the theme, I'm getting a sort of 'Leader of the Pack' vibe. Where the Shepard druid seems more command from the rear role, this would be more about the druid joining in the fray and leading their minions. However I think there's some conflicts with the abilities you've listed out and just some awkward interactions:
For clarity I'd suggest you include "You can communicate with animals as per the Speak with Animals spell," just for clarity and to remove redundancy.
Animal companion seems pretty straight forward, however there's some issues with Improved wild-shape that I'll get to later.
I don't care for the randomness in 'Evolution' of the pet. A table for randomness could be great as an optional feature as I'm sure that there are tables that would enjoy it, but as it stands it doesn't fit well with this version of DnD. If anything this version has made an effort to reduce randomness when it comes to character optimization. I think it would be best to present them as options for evolution with level restrictions (like warlock pacts) and introduce the die rolling as an optional fun feature
Have you run any math on this ability? Adding a +3 seems better than a d4 to me.
N/A
You should be specific about the damage types that are available, or are you expecting that somehow this creature is going to be able to do psychic damage with it's claws?
Darkvision, Blindsight and Tremor sense are not remotely comparable for utility and again the randomness in a class feature something I'm not at all fond of.
N/A
I think you left out " or choose two ability scores and increase them both by 1"
Again a random die (remember the default for even HP is to use the average).
You're going to want to be specifc about what options can be taken here. This would help keep things from getting out of hand, but at the very least I could imagine DMs getting very irritated with their players rolling through the MM and learning every legendary action for every creature.
Your description of Extra-Attack does not line up with any other description for extra attack . Is this supposed to be a completely unique ability specifically to grant the druid the ability to perform a pet attack without using up their own attack action, or is it meant to be Extra-Attack just like the Beastmaster Ranger? I assume it means the Druid should be able to attack twice on their turn and should work just like the beastmaster ranger in terms of working with your pet.
I think your biggest issue is going to be improved wild-shape. As an aside, it appears that you've tried to keep the Moon Druid the king of shapeshifting by not granting your subclass improved wild-shape until Moon Druids get their elemental shapes. I appreciate that. What I'm unclear on is if you intend the improved wild-shape to be an out of combat fluff ability, or is it meant for the druid to actually improve their combat ability?
Extra-Attack as written in other classes and improved wild-shape generally do not synergize. Many of the 'special' attacks in an animal stat block are a completely separate action than the standard attack action, meaning that the special animal attacks can not benefit from an extra attack ability. So if the animal form chosen was a brown bear, the druid could not attack with multi-attack AND use their class' extra attack feature. The Bear/Druid could take 2 claw attacks instead which would be pretty freakin gnarly, or make one claw attack and issue a command to their pet. Furthermore, a Druid's ability to speak in wild-shape "is limited to the capabilities of your beast form" and therefore can not issue verbal commands. The use of the word 'verbal' specifically requires the use of words. It's a technicality for sure, and I'm sure that you intend the 'Researcher of the Woods' be able to circumvent, but it should be made clear.
All in all I think that either the improved wild-shape or the extra attack action need to be replaced and the rest of the class adjusted to compensate.
Thank you so much for the feedback! You brought up some good points.
For the researcher of the woods, I had been just copying the text from the official circle of the shepherd which is why the speak with animals spell wasn't mentioned. However, you made a good point about verbal commands. It hadn't even crossed my mind. I think if I rewrite the Researcher of the Woods perk I could make it work with the animal companion while using wild shape.
The animal companion section was mostly taken from Harowings circle of evolution. The circle of evolution section still mentioned favorite terrain and was still mostly meant for beastmaster rangers so I tried to fix it for druids, and their circle of evolution is where the table came from. They did give an option to pick traits instead of rolling, do you think I should update it further so you can pick every trait instead of losing traits by picking? The levels like the evocations are a good idea, and it wouldn't be too hard to do. As mentioned earlier, I can switch it from verbal commands to something else so it will work with researcher of the woods.
About the extra attack, I was intentionally writing it to be different. Fluff reason was that your pet and yourself have gotten to know each other well enough that you can work together to both attack in the 6 seconds a turn takes. My reasoning behind making the extra attack specific to the companion was to try and keep it from being abused. A blanket extra attack feature could be used to cast some spells twice on a turn, and the point of the feature was really just to get the pets more involved in the combats. Thoughts? Would this still not fit in with the class when written this way?
For Wild shape, I'm honestly not sure if I intended it for in combat or just fluff. The official circle of the shepherd gave a feature involving their spirit totems at level 10, and I was mostly trying to replace it with something useful that would give the druid some more versatility. I guess it would be for combat and for fluff. I'm open to input on another versatile feature to replace this with.
Thank you so much for the feedback! You brought up some good points.
For the researcher of the woods, I had been just copying the text from the official circle of the shepherd which is why the speak with animals spell wasn't mentioned. However, you made a good point about verbal commands. It hadn't even crossed my mind. I think if I rewrite the Researcher of the Woods perk I could make it work with the animal companion while using wild shape.
Okay, sounds good. Given what you mentioned elsewhere I think it would be fine to leave this as is.
The animal companion section was mostly taken from Harowings circle of evolution. The circle of evolution section still mentioned favorite terrain and was still mostly meant for beastmaster rangers so I tried to fix it for druids, and their circle of evolution is where the table came from. They did give an option to pick traits instead of rolling, do you think I should update it further so you can pick every trait instead of losing traits by picking? The levels like the evocations are a good idea, and it wouldn't be too hard to do. As mentioned earlier, I can switch it from verbal commands to something else so it will work with researcher of the woods.
I think it would preferable to allow players to pick their improvements. I recognize that there's probably a whole group of people out there who are completely happy to allow the dice to randomly choose how they'll be interacting in combat, but I'm not one of them. I was initially thinking that it would be good to just allow players to choose an evolution instead of roll for an evolution at every corresponding level. However I could see how that might lead to some balance issues. So instead maybe assign an evolution at 5th and another one at 13th? It would still feel like steady growth, but it would also give you the ability to control the pet's power curve.
About the extra attack, I was intentionally writing it to be different. Fluff reason was that your pet and yourself have gotten to know each other well enough that you can work together to both attack in the 6 seconds a turn takes. My reasoning behind making the extra attack specific to the companion was to try and keep it from being abused. A blanket extra attack feature could be used to cast some spells twice on a turn, and the point of the feature was really just to get the pets more involved in the combats. Thoughts? Would this still not fit in with the class when written this way?
I would suggest calling this something else then, commander of the wild or something, since 'Extra-attack" has a pretty static meaning across classes. Then then change this ability to give the druid the ability to issue verbal commands to any beast while in humanoid form or while wild shaped (pet or summoned) as a bonus action I think you would be good. Druids have very little use for their bonus actions so I think this would be pretty safe in terms of action economy.
For Wild shape, I'm honestly not sure if I intended it for in combat or just fluff. The official circle of the shepherd gave a feature involving their spirit totems at level 10, and I was mostly trying to replace it with something useful that would give the druid some more versatility. I guess it would be for combat and for fluff. I'm open to input on another versatile feature to replace this with.
Understood. I think then your best bet is to drop improved wild shape and leave that to the moon druids, instead link this druid's wild shape to their pet. So as a use of their wild shape this druid can take the shape of their pet with some or all the same evolution improvements. This would of course need to go through some math for balance as I think granting all the pet abilities to the druid's wild shape may be a bit powerful, but hopefully you're getting the idea of what I'm shooting for.
Keep it up. The more I think about this class the more I like that a druid can have two separate takes on a 'leader' class.
Changed the wording on researcher of the woods a bit. Changed the wording on animal companion a bit and updated the pet evolution to more easily show the choice between rolling and picking traits, reworked the table a bit as well. Renamed the extra attack. Changed the level 10 ability.
Looks good. Only thing that jumps out at me is that you may want to specify in "leader of the pack" that you can't pick up the pet's legendary abilities, just like standard wild shape. My gut tells me that's could be a big balance issue. I haven't played at that high a level yet though so I may just be overly cautious.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I created my first subclass tonight, Based off the official circle of the shepherd, but changed up to be more about pet's and animals than using the spirit totem. I took some from other circles as well, but tried to optimize them a bit. I was hoping to get some feedback on it as I feel that with perfect rolls, it becomes a bit too powerful. Thanks in advance!
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/subclasses/92595-circle-of-the-shepherd-custom
I like the theme, I'm getting a sort of 'Leader of the Pack' vibe. Where the Shepard druid seems more command from the rear role, this would be more about the druid joining in the fray and leading their minions. However I think there's some conflicts with the abilities you've listed out and just some awkward interactions:
For clarity I'd suggest you include "You can communicate with animals as per the Speak with Animals spell," just for clarity and to remove redundancy.
Animal companion seems pretty straight forward, however there's some issues with Improved wild-shape that I'll get to later.
I don't care for the randomness in 'Evolution' of the pet. A table for randomness could be great as an optional feature as I'm sure that there are tables that would enjoy it, but as it stands it doesn't fit well with this version of DnD. If anything this version has made an effort to reduce randomness when it comes to character optimization. I think it would be best to present them as options for evolution with level restrictions (like warlock pacts) and introduce the die rolling as an optional fun feature
Your description of Extra-Attack does not line up with any other description for extra attack . Is this supposed to be a completely unique ability specifically to grant the druid the ability to perform a pet attack without using up their own attack action, or is it meant to be Extra-Attack just like the Beastmaster Ranger? I assume it means the Druid should be able to attack twice on their turn and should work just like the beastmaster ranger in terms of working with your pet.
I think your biggest issue is going to be improved wild-shape. As an aside, it appears that you've tried to keep the Moon Druid the king of shapeshifting by not granting your subclass improved wild-shape until Moon Druids get their elemental shapes. I appreciate that. What I'm unclear on is if you intend the improved wild-shape to be an out of combat fluff ability, or is it meant for the druid to actually improve their combat ability?
Extra-Attack as written in other classes and improved wild-shape generally do not synergize. Many of the 'special' attacks in an animal stat block are a completely separate action than the standard attack action, meaning that the special animal attacks can not benefit from an extra attack ability. So if the animal form chosen was a brown bear, the druid could not attack with multi-attack AND use their class' extra attack feature. The Bear/Druid could take 2 claw attacks instead which would be pretty freakin gnarly, or make one claw attack and issue a command to their pet. Furthermore, a Druid's ability to speak in wild-shape "is limited to the capabilities of your beast form" and therefore can not issue verbal commands. The use of the word 'verbal' specifically requires the use of words. It's a technicality for sure, and I'm sure that you intend the 'Researcher of the Woods' be able to circumvent, but it should be made clear.
All in all I think that either the improved wild-shape or the extra attack action need to be replaced and the rest of the class adjusted to compensate.
Thank you so much for the feedback! You brought up some good points.
For the researcher of the woods, I had been just copying the text from the official circle of the shepherd which is why the speak with animals spell wasn't mentioned. However, you made a good point about verbal commands. It hadn't even crossed my mind. I think if I rewrite the Researcher of the Woods perk I could make it work with the animal companion while using wild shape.
The animal companion section was mostly taken from Harowings circle of evolution. The circle of evolution section still mentioned favorite terrain and was still mostly meant for beastmaster rangers so I tried to fix it for druids, and their circle of evolution is where the table came from. They did give an option to pick traits instead of rolling, do you think I should update it further so you can pick every trait instead of losing traits by picking? The levels like the evocations are a good idea, and it wouldn't be too hard to do. As mentioned earlier, I can switch it from verbal commands to something else so it will work with researcher of the woods.
About the extra attack, I was intentionally writing it to be different. Fluff reason was that your pet and yourself have gotten to know each other well enough that you can work together to both attack in the 6 seconds a turn takes. My reasoning behind making the extra attack specific to the companion was to try and keep it from being abused. A blanket extra attack feature could be used to cast some spells twice on a turn, and the point of the feature was really just to get the pets more involved in the combats. Thoughts? Would this still not fit in with the class when written this way?
For Wild shape, I'm honestly not sure if I intended it for in combat or just fluff. The official circle of the shepherd gave a feature involving their spirit totems at level 10, and I was mostly trying to replace it with something useful that would give the druid some more versatility. I guess it would be for combat and for fluff. I'm open to input on another versatile feature to replace this with.
Okay, sounds good. Given what you mentioned elsewhere I think it would be fine to leave this as is.
I think it would preferable to allow players to pick their improvements. I recognize that there's probably a whole group of people out there who are completely happy to allow the dice to randomly choose how they'll be interacting in combat, but I'm not one of them. I was initially thinking that it would be good to just allow players to choose an evolution instead of roll for an evolution at every corresponding level. However I could see how that might lead to some balance issues. So instead maybe assign an evolution at 5th and another one at 13th? It would still feel like steady growth, but it would also give you the ability to control the pet's power curve.
I would suggest calling this something else then, commander of the wild or something, since 'Extra-attack" has a pretty static meaning across classes. Then then change this ability to give the druid the ability to issue verbal commands to any beast while in humanoid form or while wild shaped (pet or summoned) as a bonus action I think you would be good. Druids have very little use for their bonus actions so I think this would be pretty safe in terms of action economy.
Understood. I think then your best bet is to drop improved wild shape and leave that to the moon druids, instead link this druid's wild shape to their pet. So as a use of their wild shape this druid can take the shape of their pet with some or all the same evolution improvements. This would of course need to go through some math for balance as I think granting all the pet abilities to the druid's wild shape may be a bit powerful, but hopefully you're getting the idea of what I'm shooting for.
Keep it up. The more I think about this class the more I like that a druid can have two separate takes on a 'leader' class.
Here is the latest Version with most of the changes we discussed. Thoughts anyone? https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/subclasses/96497-circle-of-the-shepherd-custom
Changed the wording on researcher of the woods a bit. Changed the wording on animal companion a bit and updated the pet evolution to more easily show the choice between rolling and picking traits, reworked the table a bit as well. Renamed the extra attack. Changed the level 10 ability.
Looks good. Only thing that jumps out at me is that you may want to specify in "leader of the pack" that you can't pick up the pet's legendary abilities, just like standard wild shape. My gut tells me that's could be a big balance issue. I haven't played at that high a level yet though so I may just be overly cautious.