During our last play session, our party was at sea being chased from by a battleship with mages that can conjure a storm; animating Water Elemental onto the deck of our ship. I used Call Lightning to gain control of the storm then released the spell to make the storm disperse. In turn the Water Elementals were defeated.
Is this something Call Lightning can do? In the spell it states you gain control of the storm. Would my action of calming the storm and dispersing the clouds be apart of that?
As a DM, I'd allow it. Makes sense to me that if it lets you take control of a storm, you could disperse it.
I don''t see why that would instantly defeat water elementals, though. I'd probably say that weakens them some (because I thought that was a neat use of call lightning) but I don't think it would instakill them, there's nothing in the water elemental statblock that implies they have to be in a storm to live.
The control part of the storm is to increase the range at which you can drop lightning (from 100' I believe for standard spell, up to 'as big as the storm clouds cover even if its miles long, as long as you can see the point you want to drop lightning on it')
You have doubts about the validity of what you did and thats a good thing, first things first. If your DM allowed / encouraged / outright said it would work then it works. But even a quick look at higher level spells will see the spell control weather, an 8th level spell. Allowing a third level damage dealing spell to counter an 8th level utility spell that was designed for doing that very thing usually sets a bad precedent.
Allowing a spell or ability to do something it doesnt say it does - Call lightning allows you to take control of a storm for the purpose mentioned above and increases your lighting damage, nothing more. - means the rules are now largely irrelevant and its freeform time baby! Finger of death animates dragons into dracoliches, magic missile can with a held action shoot fireballs when another tries to cast them detonating them in their hand, levitate works on blood in the body, and only the blood causing people to bleed from the brain and eyes blinding and killing them whilst they lose control of their limbs, control water lowers electrolytes in a target knocking them out with no save, animate dead animates minotaur skeletons and ogre zombies for the same animation cost as humanoid skeleton. Mending repairs your shield guardian of all its hitpoints, with a cantrip! Animate dead can be used on someone livings skeleton marionetting them before ripping out in a hellish slasher movie gorefest. It can be a whole lot of fun but its unlikely you will be able to play the character and benefit from this at another table.
Lastly water elementals being linked to a storm would be odd, air elementals being air / stormy, then sure, but water dissipating? Look, if it made a climactic fight end, and you saved the party, sure it works, if it prevented everyone enjoying the fight? Well it shouldnt have done that by the book, if water elementals are summoned and the summoners concentration is broken they will go murderhobo them immediately, ignoring what they were doing, its in the spell. If they were planar bound then even if the controllers dead they would continue with their last order. If they came through a portal from the plane of water then nothing will cause them to disperse except violence. BUT if your gameworld history supports this and your DM is ok with it? Enjoy the ride, and keep on enjoying the game.
Thanks for the insight Moondruidneversleeps. Everyone at my table including DM are new to D&D. From my perspective at least, the rules on spells and their effects are extremely vague. As a person who likes to try and play by the rules as intended, this game is a nightmare to navigate haha. Fun as hell, but also frustrating lol.
On that note, it makes sence that Call Lightning would only effect the lightning bolts coming from the storm. Imo i think the spell should be a little more clear on its intentions though. I get that the spells description adds flavor text for immersion but it's a fine line for misinterpretation. Ill need to speak with our DM about it. We're all still learning.
No worries, and have fun, if everyones having fun then the rules are less important for that group. Its a game. The purpose is to enjoy it and sadly its easy to lose sight of that.
Its not so fun if you tried to play within what the system allows for and the effects vary every single time. Thats what the rules are there for, for players/DM's a framework to start with where X=1, Y=2. Its what differentiates it from playground shouts of 'i got you i got you,' denied by 'no you didnt'
And of course the rules allow the company to monetise and profit in selling them. Hopefully this allows them to bring out more resources for the system you enjoy!
For me, it would depend upon how the storm was created. If they made it with the 8th level spell Control Weather, then I would rule you could manipulate the storm (maybe opposed checks?), but not dismiss it. If it was a natural storm, I would say you need Control Weather to change or dismiss it, purely because that is entirely what that spell exists for. Influencing weather vs controlling it is splitting hairs in the moment, though.
The control part of the storm is to increase the range at which you can drop lightning (from 100' I believe for standard spell, up to 'as big as the storm clouds cover even if its miles long, as long as you can see the point you want to drop lightning on it')
From which part of the spell's text are you getting the range increase? Casting it in already stormy conditions only boost the damage, not the range.
Nothing in the text of Call Lightning says that it can disperse an existing storm. Giving it the ability to essentially dispel someone else's conjured storm seems too powerful. If I were the DM, I'd rule that if the spell made use of an existing storm, that storm remains when Call Lightning goes away.
JD, it was easy to miss, but heres how its broken down: Call lightning creates a storm in a 60'radius 100' above. from this you can call down ligntning on targets below. BUT when there is an existing storm you take 'control' of that storm and no new storm is created. The ligntning bolts fall from the storm covered area so where can they fall? Anywhere under the storm cloud you 'control'. Tadah! It helps that this is an oldie long since answered, Call lightning used to be used in conjunction with control weather in previous editions (less restrictive concentration duration's) so you could summon a miles wide storm, stand on an overlook above a fort / camp / village / city and bombard it / have apprentices bombard it with the wrath of nature. It did lead to some 'is this supposed to be the way it works?' queries which were responded to with 'yup, dont go outside'. and 'druids are situational, either for good or bad' style responses.
If your DM allowed it and it made for an interesting fight. That's Good. That's Cool. It worked for you guys in the moment and in a lot of ways that's what is important.
However In the grander scheme of things if your asking if it works?
The Blunt answer is No. That is not how it works.
There are two aspects of this to think of. One is the control of the storm aspect and one is the dissipation aspect.
The Control aspect is fine. It's written in the spell. You take control of it for the purposes of creating your lightning. But that's where the control ends and everybody reads way to much into it and assumes there is more than that. You can't actually move the storm about. You can't make it stronger or weaker. You can't affect how the winds blow. None of that. You can just direct where lightning will strike from that storm which allows you to bolster the damage you do because it's not discharging in undesired locations.
Now the dissipation aspect of it. You'll notice if you look closely at the spell that the spell actually says nothing at all about how the Storm dissipates from the spell. Meaning that it is much more natural and out of your control. This is an important distinction to make sometimes because when you release the spell you are not actually dissipating anything. Your simply letting go of control and letting nature reassert itself. If it was a generally calm day nature will be pretty quick to end the storm within a few rounds and evaporate it into the surrounding whether but if it was already stormy or close to stormy conditions it can be very different indeed. The storm is likely to stick around and keep pouring down rain and running it's natural course above your heads and the DM can do whatever he wishes to with that. Whether it's give you miserable weather to travel in. Cause some unintended damage after the fight is over but before the storm calms down or whatever else he might do (such as create dangerous conditions on the battlefield of another fight or overflowing the river ahead of you giving you an obstacle to navigate) because nature can and does things like that all on it's own every day.
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During our last play session, our party was at sea being chased from by a battleship with mages that can conjure a storm; animating Water Elemental onto the deck of our ship. I used Call Lightning to gain control of the storm then released the spell to make the storm disperse. In turn the Water Elementals were defeated.
Is this something Call Lightning can do? In the spell it states you gain control of the storm. Would my action of calming the storm and dispersing the clouds be apart of that?
Thoughts?
As a DM, I'd allow it. Makes sense to me that if it lets you take control of a storm, you could disperse it.
I don''t see why that would instantly defeat water elementals, though. I'd probably say that weakens them some (because I thought that was a neat use of call lightning) but I don't think it would instakill them, there's nothing in the water elemental statblock that implies they have to be in a storm to live.
The control part of the storm is to increase the range at which you can drop lightning (from 100' I believe for standard spell, up to 'as big as the storm clouds cover even if its miles long, as long as you can see the point you want to drop lightning on it')
You have doubts about the validity of what you did and thats a good thing, first things first. If your DM allowed / encouraged / outright said it would work then it works. But even a quick look at higher level spells will see the spell control weather, an 8th level spell. Allowing a third level damage dealing spell to counter an 8th level utility spell that was designed for doing that very thing usually sets a bad precedent.
Allowing a spell or ability to do something it doesnt say it does - Call lightning allows you to take control of a storm for the purpose mentioned above and increases your lighting damage, nothing more. - means the rules are now largely irrelevant and its freeform time baby! Finger of death animates dragons into dracoliches, magic missile can with a held action shoot fireballs when another tries to cast them detonating them in their hand, levitate works on blood in the body, and only the blood causing people to bleed from the brain and eyes blinding and killing them whilst they lose control of their limbs, control water lowers electrolytes in a target knocking them out with no save, animate dead animates minotaur skeletons and ogre zombies for the same animation cost as humanoid skeleton. Mending repairs your shield guardian of all its hitpoints, with a cantrip! Animate dead can be used on someone livings skeleton marionetting them before ripping out in a hellish slasher movie gorefest. It can be a whole lot of fun but its unlikely you will be able to play the character and benefit from this at another table.
Lastly water elementals being linked to a storm would be odd, air elementals being air / stormy, then sure, but water dissipating? Look, if it made a climactic fight end, and you saved the party, sure it works, if it prevented everyone enjoying the fight? Well it shouldnt have done that by the book, if water elementals are summoned and the summoners concentration is broken they will go murderhobo them immediately, ignoring what they were doing, its in the spell. If they were planar bound then even if the controllers dead they would continue with their last order. If they came through a portal from the plane of water then nothing will cause them to disperse except violence. BUT if your gameworld history supports this and your DM is ok with it? Enjoy the ride, and keep on enjoying the game.
Thanks for the insight Moondruidneversleeps. Everyone at my table including DM are new to D&D. From my perspective at least, the rules on spells and their effects are extremely vague. As a person who likes to try and play by the rules as intended, this game is a nightmare to navigate haha. Fun as hell, but also frustrating lol.
On that note, it makes sence that Call Lightning would only effect the lightning bolts coming from the storm. Imo i think the spell should be a little more clear on its intentions though. I get that the spells description adds flavor text for immersion but it's a fine line for misinterpretation. Ill need to speak with our DM about it. We're all still learning.
Thanks for the input though!
No worries, and have fun, if everyones having fun then the rules are less important for that group. Its a game. The purpose is to enjoy it and sadly its easy to lose sight of that.
Its not so fun if you tried to play within what the system allows for and the effects vary every single time. Thats what the rules are there for, for players/DM's a framework to start with where X=1, Y=2. Its what differentiates it from playground shouts of 'i got you i got you,' denied by 'no you didnt'
And of course the rules allow the company to monetise and profit in selling them. Hopefully this allows them to bring out more resources for the system you enjoy!
For me, it would depend upon how the storm was created. If they made it with the 8th level spell Control Weather, then I would rule you could manipulate the storm (maybe opposed checks?), but not dismiss it. If it was a natural storm, I would say you need Control Weather to change or dismiss it, purely because that is entirely what that spell exists for. Influencing weather vs controlling it is splitting hairs in the moment, though.
From which part of the spell's text are you getting the range increase? Casting it in already stormy conditions only boost the damage, not the range.
Nothing in the text of Call Lightning says that it can disperse an existing storm. Giving it the ability to essentially dispel someone else's conjured storm seems too powerful. If I were the DM, I'd rule that if the spell made use of an existing storm, that storm remains when Call Lightning goes away.
JD, it was easy to miss, but heres how its broken down: Call lightning creates a storm in a 60'radius 100' above. from this you can call down ligntning on targets below. BUT when there is an existing storm you take 'control' of that storm and no new storm is created. The ligntning bolts fall from the storm covered area so where can they fall? Anywhere under the storm cloud you 'control'. Tadah! It helps that this is an oldie long since answered, Call lightning used to be used in conjunction with control weather in previous editions (less restrictive concentration duration's) so you could summon a miles wide storm, stand on an overlook above a fort / camp / village / city and bombard it / have apprentices bombard it with the wrath of nature. It did lead to some 'is this supposed to be the way it works?' queries which were responded to with 'yup, dont go outside'. and 'druids are situational, either for good or bad' style responses.
Glad to have helped!
If your DM allowed it and it made for an interesting fight. That's Good. That's Cool. It worked for you guys in the moment and in a lot of ways that's what is important.
However In the grander scheme of things if your asking if it works?
The Blunt answer is No. That is not how it works.
There are two aspects of this to think of. One is the control of the storm aspect and one is the dissipation aspect.
The Control aspect is fine. It's written in the spell. You take control of it for the purposes of creating your lightning. But that's where the control ends and everybody reads way to much into it and assumes there is more than that. You can't actually move the storm about. You can't make it stronger or weaker. You can't affect how the winds blow. None of that. You can just direct where lightning will strike from that storm which allows you to bolster the damage you do because it's not discharging in undesired locations.
Now the dissipation aspect of it. You'll notice if you look closely at the spell that the spell actually says nothing at all about how the Storm dissipates from the spell. Meaning that it is much more natural and out of your control. This is an important distinction to make sometimes because when you release the spell you are not actually dissipating anything. Your simply letting go of control and letting nature reassert itself. If it was a generally calm day nature will be pretty quick to end the storm within a few rounds and evaporate it into the surrounding whether but if it was already stormy or close to stormy conditions it can be very different indeed. The storm is likely to stick around and keep pouring down rain and running it's natural course above your heads and the DM can do whatever he wishes to with that. Whether it's give you miserable weather to travel in. Cause some unintended damage after the fight is over but before the storm calms down or whatever else he might do (such as create dangerous conditions on the battlefield of another fight or overflowing the river ahead of you giving you an obstacle to navigate) because nature can and does things like that all on it's own every day.