I've always wanted to create a Caster Druid for a campaign, but I've never actually created one, and I've always gone with another choice instead. The biggest reason (usually) that I don't choose to make a Druid is that I don't know what to do with my action in combat when I'm not spending a spell slot.
I'm not too interested in playing a Moon Druid. I'm much more interested in playing a Circle of the Land Druid or a Circle of the Shepherd Druid. Both campaigns that my group is doing right now are in tier 2, and that seems to be where we spend most of our time as a group.
I love the Druid spell list (but not their attack cantrips). If I did a Circle of the Land Druid, I could use Call Lightning in a lot of combats to have something to do with my action. But if I'm not using that spell, I'm not sure what I should use my action for. And if I'm a Circle of the Shepherd Druid concentrating on Conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings, what do I use my action for?
The best damage options seem to be Shillelagh or Primal Savagery. But those require being in melee range, and I don't really see myself wanting to be in melee range as a caster druid. Shillelagh is better in tier 1, but it doesn't scale up in tier 2 or tier 3, and Primal Savagery does. So which one of those two is a better option once you're in tier 2? I love playing gish type characters, so I'm open to being convinced that a melee Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid is a good choice.
It seems like it would be complicated to use Thorn Whip properly, and using it to pull an enemy into a position that helps my melee teammates (or my somewhat squishy melee summons). 30ft range isn't that great, a D6 for damage (with no base damage) isn't that great, and the pull effect is a bit risky because I don't see myself having a good AC when I play a Druid.
I don't like Infestation, Poison Spray, Thunderclap, or Frostbite because constitution saves on save or suck spells are pretty disappointing. The short range on Poison Spray and Thunderclap is also a big detractor. Create Bonfire is not an option because it interrupts concentration on another spell. Magic Stone doesn't scale, and I don't think it would be too useful once we're in tier 2.
I think the best option if I want to stay ranged is either Produce Flame with just a 30ft range, or choosing Wood Elf for my race and then using a Longbow with a 150ft range and using my dexterity for the attack roll and the damage. Because 30ft range is still very close to the fight, I think this pushes me towards choosing a Wood Elf for the 150ft range. In tier 1, this is very effective. But once I get to tier 2 and cantrips get another damage die, and martial classes get extra attack, and I'm still just doing 1D8+dex damage on a Druid that has wisdom as its top stat, I'll be doing a lot less damage with my action than everyone else. But with a bunch of summoned allies, I guess this is okay?
Multiclassing into Cleric, or choosing a feat like Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate for the Cleric spell list lets me choose the Cleric cantrips and still use Wisdom as my attack stat, but the Cleric cantrips aren't much better. Toll the Dead is pretty good, but it's not thematic, and it's probably not worth multiclassing or taking a feat to get that cantrip. If I used one of those feats and chose a cantrip from another class's spell list, I would be forced to use intelligence or charisma as my attack stat, and this doesn't seem like a good idea.
I like the idea of doing a Firbolg Druid or a Variant Human Druid and using an attack cantrip, but I think doing Wood Elf for the +dex and longbow might be the best choice. I might want to choose a Firbolg or Variant Human even if it's not optimal just because it would be more fun to roleplay. A Goblin or Ghostwise Halfling using one of their summoned creatures as a mount could also be fun.
TLDR: What should a caster Druid do with its action when it's not using a spell slot?
You’ve done a great job of describing the challenge that I have with my 7th level Druid. He is a Moon Druid and at lower levels Produce Flame was his only non-melee option.
I find that druid = melee a lot of the time. The trick is to use WIldshape when you get wounded to escape. In which case, Primal Savagery is my preference for pure druids. The other real option is to dual-wield 2 clubs and cast shillelagh on each.
That said:
At levels 1-4, Magic Stone is your ranged attack cantrip. To hit, damage starts at 1d6+ 3 (assuming Wisdom 16). That's pretty good damage and a to hit. Note it IS a ranged spell attack, not Dex, so you are proficient. You can get a sling to increase range. Only real problem is it does not use the cantrip sliding scale, a MAJOR error on their part, so the spell becomes worthless around level 5 or so (1d6+4 is not as nice as the 2d8 most cantrips do at that level. 2d6+4 at 5th level would be fair, 3d6 +5 at 11th is still respectable, and 4d6+5 at 17th would be acceptable.) I personally would ask the DM to house rule it uses cantrip scale.
Create Bonfire is the best druid non-melee cantrip. Yes, it's concentration -so what, it is a cantrip. Unlimited uses means you stop concentrating whenever. The only issue is the other way around - you have a concentration spell up and you will want to use a cantrip. Then you are stuck with your 2nd attack cantrip.
Frostbite is not an attack spell, it is a DEFENSIVE spell. You cast it on the guy looking for advantage, killing his offensive strategy build. Sorry, no sneak attacks for you. Sorry, no Elven Accuracy.
Create Bonfire is the best druid non-melee cantrip. Yes, it's concentration. So what, it is a cantrip. Unlimited uses. Use it when you want, let the concentration lapse, cast another concentration spell, keep that up as long as you need, then cast Create Bonfire again. Only a very few times will you have a concentration spell up and not
As a Circle of the Shepherd Druid, I would definitely have a concentration spell up most of the time (Conjure Animals and Conjure Woodland Beings would be the core of the strategy). As a Circle of the Land Druid, I probably would as well (maybe Faerie Fire, Spike Growth, Heat Metal or Healing Spirit, if not Call Lightning or Conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings).
Most full spell casters do have a concentration spell up quite frequently, if not most of the time. A Circle of the Shepherd Druid most definitely would.
That also means that being in melee range and getting hit is a problem.
I agree you will have a concentration spell up frequently. But that is not the question. The question is will you want to use a cantrip while the spell is up?
After level 6/7 cantrips (with the exception of E.B. for Warlocks) are not your prime attack. They are your "Eh, I got nothing better to do, let's hit him with an X". Or the unfortunate "Oh crap, I got nothing left, got to use a cantrip."
You are not looking for your big gun, you are looking for the extra gun. Bonfire works most of the time as a good offensive. If you dislike the concentration issue, get Frostbite and accept the Save. It does a tiny amount of damage but is far more important as a defensive weapon against Rogues.
If you want an attack roll, just use Thorn Whip. Produce Flame is cool but a lot of things resist fire damage. Nothing (that I know of) resists magical piercing damage. If you need more range, you can take Spell Sniper, but 30 feet is usually fine if you have someone else in melee to hold the target’s attention. There’s really no downside.
I do tend to play druids as melee types. Wildshape does wonders for surviability.
That said: Ice Knife, Erupting Earth, Tidal Wave, blight, Ice Storm, and Transmute Rock to Mud are all good attack spells. Throw in some healing spells and a dispel magic, and you are done.
I do tend to play druids as melee types. Wildshape does wonders for surviability.
That said: Ice Knife, Erupting Earth, Tidal Wave, blight, Ice Storm, and Transmute Rock to Mud are all good attack spells. Throw in some healing spells and a dispel magic, and you are done.
Aside from Ice Knife, those are all 3rd level or higher spells. Which makes sense because using level 1 or level 2 spell slots for damage spells isn't a good strategy once your cantrips start scaling up. Even At level 10, you only get 8 spell slots per day of level 3+ spells. So you can't just sit around spamming level 3+ spells every round.
Wildshape is great for survivability, but it's not great if you want to maintain concentration on a spell. Especially since most Wild Shape animals have a very low AC, and they're almost all melee. My goal as a Druid spellcaster isn't just survivability. My goal as a Druid spellcaster is maintaining concentration on my spell. You clearly don't have any experience playing a Druid spellcaster - the same amount as I do. But you don't seem to have any experience playing any type of spellcaster.
Since you don't have any experience playing a spell caster, I'll explain to you how a spell caster is played.
Your concentration spells are really powerful. Maintaining concentration on them is very important because you don't want to keep recasting concentration spells. Therefore, going into melee range is dangerous. Being hit is dangerous. Having a low AC is dangerous. In the big fights, you tend to use one of your best spells cast with one of your highest level spell slots as your concentration spell. You don't want to lose concentration on this spell.
Your first and second level spell slots aren't very good for dealing damage, but they're quite good for casting spells like Shield, or Absorb Elements. They're also good for casting spells like Cure Wounds or Healing Word when an ally goes down. Casting Shield or Absorb Elements is great at helping you to maintain concentration on a spell. Casting Cure Wounds and Healing Word on your melee allies is great at helping you avoid being attacked because your allies get attacked instead. Druids don't get the Shield spell, but they do get the other three spells. Druids also get Lesser Restoration and this spell also comes in very handy, especially after a combat at removing the poisoned condition from an ally before continuing on. Your first and second level spell slots also have some nice concentration spells that you can use during combat if you're not concentrating on a higher level spell (such as during an easier combat against a weak patrol or a weaker room in the dungeon).
You have 7 spell slots for level 1 and level 2 spells, and as you level up, you start with 4 spell slots for level 3+ spells at level 7, moving on up to 5, 7, 8, then 9 for 2 levels, then 10 for 2 levels, and so on. Especially at levels 5-8, you don't have enough spell slots to cast a concentration spell with a 3rd level slot or higher, and then to cast 3rd level or higher damage spells over and over. At levels 5-8, you'll be using cantrips most of the time. You just don't have enough spell slots to play the way that you think a spellcaster is played.
I have not played a Druid spellcaster before, but I do know that spells with an hour duration will last through multiple combats. So spells like Conjure Animals and Conjure Woodland Beings are expected to last through multiple combats if you play like a spellcaster and not like an idiot that runs up into melee range in Wildshape while concentrating on a key spell. However, given that it's quite common to short rest once or twice in a day, spells that have a duration of one hour will obviously not last through a short rest. So even if you never lose concentration on your key Conjuration spell, you'll still probably have to cast it two or three times each day. If you do end up getting attacked in battle and losing concentration on the spell, you might recast the spell again in that combat if the combat isn't almost over.
If you're doing a Circle of the Land Druid, and not relying on your hour long conjuration spells (which you can still use, even though they aren't as good for you as they are for a Circle of the Shepherd Druid), you also have some nice 1st and 2nd level concentration spells like Entangle, Faerie Fire, and Spike Growth. So even when you're faced with a small combat that isn't challenging enough to require your top spell slots or using spell slots every round, you're still likely to be using a concentration spell.
So your idea of using your 3rd level spell slots every round during combat isn't going to work too well unless your group is the type that takes long rests while inside a dungeon during a dungeon crawl.
So please, if you haven't played a Druid spellcaster, and especially if you haven't ever played a spellcaster, don't try to answer my question. Please only answer my question if you actually have experience playing a spellcaster.
If you want an attack roll, just use Thorn Whip. Produce Flame is cool but a lot of things resist fire damage. Nothing (that I know of) resists magical piercing damage. If you need more range, you can take Spell Sniper, but 30 feet is usually fine if you have someone else in melee to hold the target’s attention. There’s really no downside.
That's a good point about resisting fire damage.
I'm playing a Tempest Cleric right now that took the [feat]Spell Sniper[/feat] feat and took Thorn Whip as the spell learned (because it uses Wisdom for the attack roll), so I've got experience using the Thorn Whip spell. Our party in that campaign is 4 melee characters and no ranged damage dealers, so having Thorn Whip has been quite useful there. I'm glad to know that it would still be a useful spell even when your party isn't 100% melee.
I am nervous about just the 30ft range. I've never played a ranged character with just a 30ft range. It feels like I would be awfully close to the melee combatants with just a 30ft range, and I would have a limited selection of targets unless I wanted to get even closer to the battle. One of the nice things about being a ranged character is being able to attack whoever you want to attack, but having just a 30ft range takes away a lot of that advantage.
Thorn Whip works well for a Cleric because it combos very well with Spirit Guardians. Looking at the Druid Spell list, I imagine that it combos very well with Plant Growth and Spike Growth among other things. And it probably helps when you have a bunch of melee summoned allies from Conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings. It is nice to have a spell that does more than just dealing damage and has an added effect to it. Are there other synergies with spells on the Druid spell list that I didn't mention?
I think you're right that Thorn Whip makes the most sense for my cantrip pick - especially since I'm more interested in Circle of the Shepherd than I am in Circle of the Land (although that could change by the time one of my two characters dies or by the time we start another campaign). Although maybe someone else will come along and give a good argument in favor of another cantrip and I'll change my mind. But for now, you've got me leaning towards Thorn Whip. I'll pay special attention when I'm playing my Tempest Cleric and using Thorn Whip to see if I think I would be happy playing a Druid whose only attack cantrip is Thorn Whip.
For the wildshape options, a CR 1/4 Giant Poisonous Snake with 14AC and 11HP looks to be the best option for levels 2-3. I didn't see anything else with 14AC, and it does nice damage. It actually looks like a really good option in tier 1, especially since you're not concentrating on any high level spell, and you don't have many spell slots.
For levels 4-7, none of the CR 1/2 options I saw had more than 12AC or more than 19HP. I think the Giant Poisonous Snake might still be the best option. Having 14AC as a melee character is bad enough, I certainly wouldn't want to drop down to 12. Especial at levels 5-7 when cantrips get a second damage die, I don't think wildshape makes sense. Also, you're often concentrating on a 3rd level spell once you reach that level, so it's extremely important to maintain concentration.
At level 8, the Dire Wolf and Giant Spider are added as options, and they're an upgrade over the Giant Poisonous Snake, but only because they have more HP, they still have just 14AC as a melee option.
I can't see Wildshape being a good option when you're trying to concentrate on a spell. Obviously, a Circle of the Moon Druid would use wildshape in combat, but I don't see it being the go-to option for a Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid once you reach tier 2.
Take one level as an Arcana Cleric to get two Wizard cantrips cast with Wisdom. I'd suggest Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp (although Fire Bolt does more damage, but is resisted more often).
Take one level as an Arcana Cleric to get two Wizard cantrips cast with Wisdom. I'd suggest Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp (although Fire Bolt does more damage, but is resisted more often).
That's a good work-around.
It's similar to what the Bard in my party did when he took a level in Sorcerer to start to get better attack cantrips than what the Bard can choose from.
Both of my characters right now have done that - started off with one level in one class and then taken the rest of their levels in a different class. Coming up with a backstory to link an Arcana Cleric that becomes a Druid is a bit hard though. And unlike multiclassing Sorcerer or Fighter, it doesn't give proficiency in Con Saves.
Do people dislike Druid cantrips enough to do this? Are Druid cantrips really bad enough to justify multiclassing just to get a better attack cantrip?
Take one level as an Arcana Cleric to get two Wizard cantrips cast with Wisdom. I'd suggest Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp (although Fire Bolt does more damage, but is resisted more often).
That's a good work-around.
It's similar to what the Bard in my party did when he took a level in Sorcerer to start to get better attack cantrips than what the Bard can choose from.
Both of my characters right now have done that - started off with one level in one class and then taken the rest of their levels in a different class. Coming up with a backstory to link an Arcana Cleric that becomes a Druid is a bit hard though. And unlike multiclassing Sorcerer or Fighter, it doesn't give proficiency in Con Saves.
Do people dislike Druid cantrips enough to do this? Are Druid cantrips really bad enough to justify multiclassing just to get a better attack cantrip?
Druid attack cantrips are that bad, but Druids have other options to use that aren't attack cantrips. They're not blasters, they're more support, battlefield control, and melee characters.
Another options is a feat from Wayfinders Guide to Eberron, which is Aberrant Dragonmark. Which gives you a sorcerer cantrip with CON instead of CHA, plus some other stuff.
Take one level as an Arcana Cleric to get two Wizard cantrips cast with Wisdom. I'd suggest Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp (although Fire Bolt does more damage, but is resisted more often).
That's a good work-around.
It's similar to what the Bard in my party did when he took a level in Sorcerer to start to get better attack cantrips than what the Bard can choose from.
Both of my characters right now have done that - started off with one level in one class and then taken the rest of their levels in a different class. Coming up with a backstory to link an Arcana Cleric that becomes a Druid is a bit hard though. And unlike multiclassing Sorcerer or Fighter, it doesn't give proficiency in Con Saves.
Do people dislike Druid cantrips enough to do this? Are Druid cantrips really bad enough to justify multiclassing just to get a better attack cantrip?
Druid attack cantrips are that bad, but Druids have other options to use that aren't attack cantrips. They're not blasters, they're more support, battlefield control, and melee characters.
Is it just the Circle of the Moon Druids that are melee characters, or is it a good strategy for a Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid to be a melee character while concentrating on a high level spell?
Take one level as an Arcana Cleric to get two Wizard cantrips cast with Wisdom. I'd suggest Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp (although Fire Bolt does more damage, but is resisted more often).
That's a good work-around.
It's similar to what the Bard in my party did when he took a level in Sorcerer to start to get better attack cantrips than what the Bard can choose from.
Both of my characters right now have done that - started off with one level in one class and then taken the rest of their levels in a different class. Coming up with a backstory to link an Arcana Cleric that becomes a Druid is a bit hard though. And unlike multiclassing Sorcerer or Fighter, it doesn't give proficiency in Con Saves.
Do people dislike Druid cantrips enough to do this? Are Druid cantrips really bad enough to justify multiclassing just to get a better attack cantrip?
Druid attack cantrips are that bad, but Druids have other options to use that aren't attack cantrips. They're not blasters, they're more support, battlefield control, and melee characters.
Is it just the Circle of the Moon Druids that are melee characters, or is it a good strategy for a Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid to be a melee character while concentrating on a high level spell?
Shillelagh combined with Barkskin turn any Druid into a dangerous melee opponent!
Take one level as an Arcana Cleric to get two Wizard cantrips cast with Wisdom. I'd suggest Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp (although Fire Bolt does more damage, but is resisted more often).
That's a good work-around.
It's similar to what the Bard in my party did when he took a level in Sorcerer to start to get better attack cantrips than what the Bard can choose from.
Both of my characters right now have done that - started off with one level in one class and then taken the rest of their levels in a different class. Coming up with a backstory to link an Arcana Cleric that becomes a Druid is a bit hard though. And unlike multiclassing Sorcerer or Fighter, it doesn't give proficiency in Con Saves.
Do people dislike Druid cantrips enough to do this? Are Druid cantrips really bad enough to justify multiclassing just to get a better attack cantrip?
Druid attack cantrips are that bad, but Druids have other options to use that aren't attack cantrips. They're not blasters, they're more support, battlefield control, and melee characters.
Is it just the Circle of the Moon Druids that are melee characters, or is it a good strategy for a Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid to be a melee character while concentrating on a high level spell?
Shillelagh combined with Barkskin turn any Druid into a dangerous melee opponent!
What do I do with my action when I'm concentrating on a high level spell? Answers that involve casting other concentration spells are not an answer that I am looking for.
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I've always wanted to create a Caster Druid for a campaign, but I've never actually created one, and I've always gone with another choice instead. The biggest reason (usually) that I don't choose to make a Druid is that I don't know what to do with my action in combat when I'm not spending a spell slot.
I'm not too interested in playing a Moon Druid. I'm much more interested in playing a Circle of the Land Druid or a Circle of the Shepherd Druid. Both campaigns that my group is doing right now are in tier 2, and that seems to be where we spend most of our time as a group.
I love the Druid spell list (but not their attack cantrips). If I did a Circle of the Land Druid, I could use Call Lightning in a lot of combats to have something to do with my action. But if I'm not using that spell, I'm not sure what I should use my action for. And if I'm a Circle of the Shepherd Druid concentrating on Conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings, what do I use my action for?
The best damage options seem to be Shillelagh or Primal Savagery. But those require being in melee range, and I don't really see myself wanting to be in melee range as a caster druid. Shillelagh is better in tier 1, but it doesn't scale up in tier 2 or tier 3, and Primal Savagery does. So which one of those two is a better option once you're in tier 2? I love playing gish type characters, so I'm open to being convinced that a melee Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid is a good choice.
It seems like it would be complicated to use Thorn Whip properly, and using it to pull an enemy into a position that helps my melee teammates (or my somewhat squishy melee summons). 30ft range isn't that great, a D6 for damage (with no base damage) isn't that great, and the pull effect is a bit risky because I don't see myself having a good AC when I play a Druid.
I don't like Infestation, Poison Spray, Thunderclap, or Frostbite because constitution saves on save or suck spells are pretty disappointing. The short range on Poison Spray and Thunderclap is also a big detractor. Create Bonfire is not an option because it interrupts concentration on another spell. Magic Stone doesn't scale, and I don't think it would be too useful once we're in tier 2.
I think the best option if I want to stay ranged is either Produce Flame with just a 30ft range, or choosing Wood Elf for my race and then using a Longbow with a 150ft range and using my dexterity for the attack roll and the damage. Because 30ft range is still very close to the fight, I think this pushes me towards choosing a Wood Elf for the 150ft range. In tier 1, this is very effective. But once I get to tier 2 and cantrips get another damage die, and martial classes get extra attack, and I'm still just doing 1D8+dex damage on a Druid that has wisdom as its top stat, I'll be doing a lot less damage with my action than everyone else. But with a bunch of summoned allies, I guess this is okay?
Multiclassing into Cleric, or choosing a feat like Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate for the Cleric spell list lets me choose the Cleric cantrips and still use Wisdom as my attack stat, but the Cleric cantrips aren't much better. Toll the Dead is pretty good, but it's not thematic, and it's probably not worth multiclassing or taking a feat to get that cantrip. If I used one of those feats and chose a cantrip from another class's spell list, I would be forced to use intelligence or charisma as my attack stat, and this doesn't seem like a good idea.
I like the idea of doing a Firbolg Druid or a Variant Human Druid and using an attack cantrip, but I think doing Wood Elf for the +dex and longbow might be the best choice. I might want to choose a Firbolg or Variant Human even if it's not optimal just because it would be more fun to roleplay. A Goblin or Ghostwise Halfling using one of their summoned creatures as a mount could also be fun.
TLDR: What should a caster Druid do with its action when it's not using a spell slot?
You’ve done a great job of describing the challenge that I have with my 7th level Druid. He is a Moon Druid and at lower levels Produce Flame was his only non-melee option.
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I find that druid = melee a lot of the time. The trick is to use WIldshape when you get wounded to escape. In which case, Primal Savagery is my preference for pure druids. The other real option is to dual-wield 2 clubs and cast shillelagh on each.
That said:
At levels 1-4, Magic Stone is your ranged attack cantrip. To hit, damage starts at 1d6+ 3 (assuming Wisdom 16). That's pretty good damage and a to hit. Note it IS a ranged spell attack, not Dex, so you are proficient. You can get a sling to increase range. Only real problem is it does not use the cantrip sliding scale, a MAJOR error on their part, so the spell becomes worthless around level 5 or so (1d6+4 is not as nice as the 2d8 most cantrips do at that level. 2d6+4 at 5th level would be fair, 3d6 +5 at 11th is still respectable, and 4d6+5 at 17th would be acceptable.) I personally would ask the DM to house rule it uses cantrip scale.
Create Bonfire is the best druid non-melee cantrip. Yes, it's concentration -so what, it is a cantrip. Unlimited uses means you stop concentrating whenever. The only issue is the other way around - you have a concentration spell up and you will want to use a cantrip. Then you are stuck with your 2nd attack cantrip.
Frostbite is not an attack spell, it is a DEFENSIVE spell. You cast it on the guy looking for advantage, killing his offensive strategy build. Sorry, no sneak attacks for you. Sorry, no Elven Accuracy.
As a Circle of the Shepherd Druid, I would definitely have a concentration spell up most of the time (Conjure Animals and Conjure Woodland Beings would be the core of the strategy). As a Circle of the Land Druid, I probably would as well (maybe Faerie Fire, Spike Growth, Heat Metal or Healing Spirit, if not Call Lightning or Conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings).
Most full spell casters do have a concentration spell up quite frequently, if not most of the time. A Circle of the Shepherd Druid most definitely would.
That also means that being in melee range and getting hit is a problem.
I agree you will have a concentration spell up frequently. But that is not the question. The question is will you want to use a cantrip while the spell is up?
After level 6/7 cantrips (with the exception of E.B. for Warlocks) are not your prime attack. They are your "Eh, I got nothing better to do, let's hit him with an X". Or the unfortunate "Oh crap, I got nothing left, got to use a cantrip."
You are not looking for your big gun, you are looking for the extra gun. Bonfire works most of the time as a good offensive. If you dislike the concentration issue, get Frostbite and accept the Save. It does a tiny amount of damage but is far more important as a defensive weapon against Rogues.
So what is your prime attack after level 6/7? Spamming Thunderwave?
I get the impression that you have never played a caster druid before. Am I correct?
If you want an attack roll, just use Thorn Whip. Produce Flame is cool but a lot of things resist fire damage. Nothing (that I know of) resists magical piercing damage. If you need more range, you can take Spell Sniper, but 30 feet is usually fine if you have someone else in melee to hold the target’s attention. There’s really no downside.
I do tend to play druids as melee types. Wildshape does wonders for surviability.
That said: Ice Knife, Erupting Earth, Tidal Wave, blight, Ice Storm, and Transmute Rock to Mud are all good attack spells. Throw in some healing spells and a dispel magic, and you are done.
Aside from Ice Knife, those are all 3rd level or higher spells. Which makes sense because using level 1 or level 2 spell slots for damage spells isn't a good strategy once your cantrips start scaling up. Even At level 10, you only get 8 spell slots per day of level 3+ spells. So you can't just sit around spamming level 3+ spells every round.
Wildshape is great for survivability, but it's not great if you want to maintain concentration on a spell. Especially since most Wild Shape animals have a very low AC, and they're almost all melee. My goal as a Druid spellcaster isn't just survivability. My goal as a Druid spellcaster is maintaining concentration on my spell. You clearly don't have any experience playing a Druid spellcaster - the same amount as I do. But you don't seem to have any experience playing any type of spellcaster.
Since you don't have any experience playing a spell caster, I'll explain to you how a spell caster is played.
Your concentration spells are really powerful. Maintaining concentration on them is very important because you don't want to keep recasting concentration spells. Therefore, going into melee range is dangerous. Being hit is dangerous. Having a low AC is dangerous. In the big fights, you tend to use one of your best spells cast with one of your highest level spell slots as your concentration spell. You don't want to lose concentration on this spell.
Your first and second level spell slots aren't very good for dealing damage, but they're quite good for casting spells like Shield, or Absorb Elements. They're also good for casting spells like Cure Wounds or Healing Word when an ally goes down. Casting Shield or Absorb Elements is great at helping you to maintain concentration on a spell. Casting Cure Wounds and Healing Word on your melee allies is great at helping you avoid being attacked because your allies get attacked instead. Druids don't get the Shield spell, but they do get the other three spells. Druids also get Lesser Restoration and this spell also comes in very handy, especially after a combat at removing the poisoned condition from an ally before continuing on. Your first and second level spell slots also have some nice concentration spells that you can use during combat if you're not concentrating on a higher level spell (such as during an easier combat against a weak patrol or a weaker room in the dungeon).
You have 7 spell slots for level 1 and level 2 spells, and as you level up, you start with 4 spell slots for level 3+ spells at level 7, moving on up to 5, 7, 8, then 9 for 2 levels, then 10 for 2 levels, and so on. Especially at levels 5-8, you don't have enough spell slots to cast a concentration spell with a 3rd level slot or higher, and then to cast 3rd level or higher damage spells over and over. At levels 5-8, you'll be using cantrips most of the time. You just don't have enough spell slots to play the way that you think a spellcaster is played.
I have not played a Druid spellcaster before, but I do know that spells with an hour duration will last through multiple combats. So spells like Conjure Animals and Conjure Woodland Beings are expected to last through multiple combats if you play like a spellcaster and not like an idiot that runs up into melee range in Wildshape while concentrating on a key spell. However, given that it's quite common to short rest once or twice in a day, spells that have a duration of one hour will obviously not last through a short rest. So even if you never lose concentration on your key Conjuration spell, you'll still probably have to cast it two or three times each day. If you do end up getting attacked in battle and losing concentration on the spell, you might recast the spell again in that combat if the combat isn't almost over.
If you're doing a Circle of the Land Druid, and not relying on your hour long conjuration spells (which you can still use, even though they aren't as good for you as they are for a Circle of the Shepherd Druid), you also have some nice 1st and 2nd level concentration spells like Entangle, Faerie Fire, and Spike Growth. So even when you're faced with a small combat that isn't challenging enough to require your top spell slots or using spell slots every round, you're still likely to be using a concentration spell.
So your idea of using your 3rd level spell slots every round during combat isn't going to work too well unless your group is the type that takes long rests while inside a dungeon during a dungeon crawl.
So please, if you haven't played a Druid spellcaster, and especially if you haven't ever played a spellcaster, don't try to answer my question. Please only answer my question if you actually have experience playing a spellcaster.
That's a good point about resisting fire damage.
I'm playing a Tempest Cleric right now that took the [feat]Spell Sniper[/feat] feat and took Thorn Whip as the spell learned (because it uses Wisdom for the attack roll), so I've got experience using the Thorn Whip spell. Our party in that campaign is 4 melee characters and no ranged damage dealers, so having Thorn Whip has been quite useful there. I'm glad to know that it would still be a useful spell even when your party isn't 100% melee.
I am nervous about just the 30ft range. I've never played a ranged character with just a 30ft range. It feels like I would be awfully close to the melee combatants with just a 30ft range, and I would have a limited selection of targets unless I wanted to get even closer to the battle. One of the nice things about being a ranged character is being able to attack whoever you want to attack, but having just a 30ft range takes away a lot of that advantage.
Thorn Whip works well for a Cleric because it combos very well with Spirit Guardians. Looking at the Druid Spell list, I imagine that it combos very well with Plant Growth and Spike Growth among other things. And it probably helps when you have a bunch of melee summoned allies from Conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings. It is nice to have a spell that does more than just dealing damage and has an added effect to it. Are there other synergies with spells on the Druid spell list that I didn't mention?
I think you're right that Thorn Whip makes the most sense for my cantrip pick - especially since I'm more interested in Circle of the Shepherd than I am in Circle of the Land (although that could change by the time one of my two characters dies or by the time we start another campaign). Although maybe someone else will come along and give a good argument in favor of another cantrip and I'll change my mind. But for now, you've got me leaning towards Thorn Whip. I'll pay special attention when I'm playing my Tempest Cleric and using Thorn Whip to see if I think I would be happy playing a Druid whose only attack cantrip is Thorn Whip.
For the wildshape options, a CR 1/4 Giant Poisonous Snake with 14AC and 11HP looks to be the best option for levels 2-3. I didn't see anything else with 14AC, and it does nice damage. It actually looks like a really good option in tier 1, especially since you're not concentrating on any high level spell, and you don't have many spell slots.
For levels 4-7, none of the CR 1/2 options I saw had more than 12AC or more than 19HP. I think the Giant Poisonous Snake might still be the best option. Having 14AC as a melee character is bad enough, I certainly wouldn't want to drop down to 12. Especial at levels 5-7 when cantrips get a second damage die, I don't think wildshape makes sense. Also, you're often concentrating on a 3rd level spell once you reach that level, so it's extremely important to maintain concentration.
At level 8, the Dire Wolf and Giant Spider are added as options, and they're an upgrade over the Giant Poisonous Snake, but only because they have more HP, they still have just 14AC as a melee option.
I can't see Wildshape being a good option when you're trying to concentrate on a spell. Obviously, a Circle of the Moon Druid would use wildshape in combat, but I don't see it being the go-to option for a Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid once you reach tier 2.
Take one level as an Arcana Cleric to get two Wizard cantrips cast with Wisdom. I'd suggest Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp (although Fire Bolt does more damage, but is resisted more often).
That's a good work-around.
It's similar to what the Bard in my party did when he took a level in Sorcerer to start to get better attack cantrips than what the Bard can choose from.
Both of my characters right now have done that - started off with one level in one class and then taken the rest of their levels in a different class. Coming up with a backstory to link an Arcana Cleric that becomes a Druid is a bit hard though. And unlike multiclassing Sorcerer or Fighter, it doesn't give proficiency in Con Saves.
Do people dislike Druid cantrips enough to do this? Are Druid cantrips really bad enough to justify multiclassing just to get a better attack cantrip?
Druid attack cantrips are that bad, but Druids have other options to use that aren't attack cantrips. They're not blasters, they're more support, battlefield control, and melee characters.
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Another options is a feat from Wayfinders Guide to Eberron, which is Aberrant Dragonmark. Which gives you a sorcerer cantrip with CON instead of CHA, plus some other stuff.
Is it just the Circle of the Moon Druids that are melee characters, or is it a good strategy for a Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid to be a melee character while concentrating on a high level spell?
Shillelagh combined with Barkskin turn any Druid into a dangerous melee opponent!
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Barkskin requires concentration. I'm talking about a Circle of the Land or Circle of the Shepherd Druid that is concentrating on a spell like Spike Growth, Heat Metal, Conjure Animals, Sleet Storm, Conjure Woodland Beings, Polymorph, etc. What do they do with their action on their turn?
In case it isn't clear, my question is:
What do I do with my action when I'm concentrating on a high level spell? Answers that involve casting other concentration spells are not an answer that I am looking for.