As a Level 3 Moon Druid, can I wild shape into a beast with a swim speed as long as I don't use it? For example, could I become a Constrictor Snake while no where near water?
That always seemed like such a weirdly arbitrary restriction to me; in my group we house-rule that creatures with a swim speed are fine so long as it is limited to their walking speed (i.e- if it would normally be higher, it's reduced until you reach the right level).
It's not as though a swim speed is anywhere near as abusable as a flying speed can be, and really only enables the same kinds of shenanigans you can pull as a rat sneaking through cracks in a wall or whatever. Meanwhile you can take creatures with burrowing speeds that can produce greater headaches for a DM than a swim speed does. Never made sense to me.
Maybe I don't understand your question, or the other folks answers. Why wouldn't you be allowed to wildshape into something with a swim speed if there is no water. Doesn't it mean that you just can't swim because there is no water?
Or do you mean that you wouldn't be able to wildshape because there was never any exposure to water, like you lived in a desert with no water-borne snakes?
The druid's wildshape progression table specifies that you only are able to wildshape into a creature who's template includes a swim speed after level 4, and only with a fly speed at level 8. There aren't a lot of forms that are CR 1 or less that have swim speed that are actually that impressive though, giant octopus is the only one to come to mind, a few at higher levels though. As long as you aren't going giant octopus I don't think there is much significant difference in power between say, a reef shark vs a dire wolf.
There isn't much of an issue though, other than giant octopus I don't see anything with a swim speed performing better than just becoming a dire wolf. Higher levels sure there is some that are good but at that point you don't even have the restriction.
I think the intention of the restriction is about forms of life not "don't go in the water." What would you expect to happen when you as a wolf (from the beast shapes chart) had to cross a river or are thrown in a lake or pool? Are you forced from your wild shape? No, of course not. For that matter, shouldn't being tossed into the air also break your wild shape because isn't that a form of flight?
You're already a land animal (unless you're in Aarakocra, then take it back your DM) so it's not much different. Land animals can also learn to swim so you'll have some experience at that where you'll have no natural experience flying. And your time as a water creature Will help you understand what it means to be a flying creature.
Or… it is easier and safer to learn to fly underwater where you have the water to support you then it is to try flying through the air with no support at all.
Maybe I don't understand your question, or the other folks answers. Why wouldn't you be allowed to wildshape into something with a swim speed if there is no water. Doesn't it mean that you just can't swim because there is no water?
Or do you mean that you wouldn't be able to wildshape because there was never any exposure to water, like you lived in a desert with no water-borne snakes?
I mean that as a Moon Druid, at Level 3 I can wildshape into beasts with a CR of 1. Some of these beasts have swim speed, but I still can't transform into beasts that have a swimming speed until I become a 4th-level druid. Some of those beasts (like a constrictor snake) would be beneficial to become, without swimming, so I'm wondering if I could use them as long as I don't use them to swim before reaching 4th level.
I think the intention of the restriction is about forms of life not "don't go in the water." What would you expect to happen when you as a wolf (from the beast shapes chart) had to cross a river or are thrown in a lake or pool? Are you forced from your wild shape? No, of course not. For that matter, shouldn't being tossed into the air also break your wild shape because isn't that a form of flight?
You're already a land animal (unless you're in Aarakocra, then take it back your DM) so it's not much different. Land animals can also learn to swim so you'll have some experience at that where you'll have no natural experience flying. And your time as a water creature Will help you understand what it means to be a flying creature.
Or… it is easier and safer to learn to fly underwater where you have the water to support you then it is to try flying through the air with no support at all.
Good point...this sort of supports my idea. Almost any beast could swim, just wouldn't have the advantage of a swim speed...so, couldn't I transform into a beast with a swim speed and just not get the advantage of said swim speed?
As a Level 3 Moon Druid, can I wild shape into a beast with a swim speed as long as I don't use it? For example, could I become a Constrictor Snake while no where near water?
Generally, no. And the rule of excluding swim speed is a way of keeping your options (anoyingly!) limited as to the complexity of beast shapes you can assume. Even if you don't have the intention of swimming (like, if your Druid is in a desert), this gives you something to look forward to leveling up.
For exceptions, feel free to talk to your DM! As these rules are just to serve as guidelines, they're not supposed to be concrete beyond reason.
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As a Level 3 Moon Druid, can I wild shape into a beast with a swim speed as long as I don't use it? For example, could I become a Constrictor Snake while no where near water?
RAW, no. However, you can always ask your DM.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
That always seemed like such a weirdly arbitrary restriction to me; in my group we house-rule that creatures with a swim speed are fine so long as it is limited to their walking speed (i.e- if it would normally be higher, it's reduced until you reach the right level).
It's not as though a swim speed is anywhere near as abusable as a flying speed can be, and really only enables the same kinds of shenanigans you can pull as a rat sneaking through cracks in a wall or whatever. Meanwhile you can take creatures with burrowing speeds that can produce greater headaches for a DM than a swim speed does. Never made sense to me.
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Maybe I don't understand your question, or the other folks answers. Why wouldn't you be allowed to wildshape into something with a swim speed if there is no water. Doesn't it mean that you just can't swim because there is no water?
Or do you mean that you wouldn't be able to wildshape because there was never any exposure to water, like you lived in a desert with no water-borne snakes?
The druid's wildshape progression table specifies that you only are able to wildshape into a creature who's template includes a swim speed after level 4, and only with a fly speed at level 8. There aren't a lot of forms that are CR 1 or less that have swim speed that are actually that impressive though, giant octopus is the only one to come to mind, a few at higher levels though. As long as you aren't going giant octopus I don't think there is much significant difference in power between say, a reef shark vs a dire wolf.
OP is a Moon druid, who ignores the CR restriction, hence why it's more of an issue.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
There isn't much of an issue though, other than giant octopus I don't see anything with a swim speed performing better than just becoming a dire wolf. Higher levels sure there is some that are good but at that point you don't even have the restriction.
I think the intention of the restriction is about forms of life not "don't go in the water." What would you expect to happen when you as a wolf (from the beast shapes chart) had to cross a river or are thrown in a lake or pool? Are you forced from your wild shape? No, of course not. For that matter, shouldn't being tossed into the air also break your wild shape because isn't that a form of flight?
You're already a land animal (unless you're in Aarakocra, then take it back your DM) so it's not much different. Land animals can also learn to swim so you'll have some experience at that where you'll have no natural experience flying. And your time as a water creature Will help you understand what it means to be a flying creature.
Or… it is easier and safer to learn to fly underwater where you have the water to support you then it is to try flying through the air with no support at all.
I mean that as a Moon Druid, at Level 3 I can wildshape into beasts with a CR of 1. Some of these beasts have swim speed, but I still can't transform into beasts that have a swimming speed until I become a 4th-level druid. Some of those beasts (like a constrictor snake) would be beneficial to become, without swimming, so I'm wondering if I could use them as long as I don't use them to swim before reaching 4th level.
Good point...this sort of supports my idea. Almost any beast could swim, just wouldn't have the advantage of a swim speed...so, couldn't I transform into a beast with a swim speed and just not get the advantage of said swim speed?
I get that RAW says no. I'll check with my DM
Generally, no. And the rule of excluding swim speed is a way of keeping your options (anoyingly!) limited as to the complexity of beast shapes you can assume. Even if you don't have the intention of swimming (like, if your Druid is in a desert), this gives you something to look forward to leveling up.
For exceptions, feel free to talk to your DM! As these rules are just to serve as guidelines, they're not supposed to be concrete beyond reason.
💙🤍~*Ravenclaw*~ 🔮