With the Guardian of Nature spell, if I take the Primal Beast form would I be better off still using my club, with shillelagh, and use my +5 WIS for attack or the Advantage and attack with my STR which is only +1?
And with the Great Tree form would my WIS attack rolls, which would be at Advantage, include spell attacks that use WIS to hit? I assume yes since it doesn’t specify the attack action or weapon attacks.
First time having access to it and wasn’t sure how good it is and want to make sure I use it to its fullest if the opportunity arises.
The club does 1d4 damage, so with Primal Beast you'd do 1d4+1d6+1 if you hit (3 min, 6 average, 11 max). With Great Tree you'd be doing 1d8+5 (6 min, 9.5 average, 13 max).
And yes, Great Tree will affect anything that uses an attack roll, spell or weapon, that uses DEX or WIS to calculate the modifier. So a bow, rapier, or a spell like Ice Knife would work. A spell like Thunderwave would not, because there's no attack roll on your part, just a saving roll on the part of someone else.
The club does 1d4 damage, so with Primal Beast you'd do 1d4+1d6+1 if you hit (3 min, 6 average, 11 max). With Great Tree you'd be doing 1d8+5 (6 min, 9.5 average, 13 max).
And yes, Great Tree will affect anything that uses an attack roll, spell or weapon, that uses DEX or WIS to calculate the modifier. So a bow, rapier, or a spell like Ice Knife would work. A spell like Thunderwave would not, because there's no attack roll on your part, just a saving roll on the part of someone else.
With shillelagh the club would do 1d8, and was wondering if advantage and using my +1 STR to hit would be better than no advantage but +5 from WIS to hit. I don’t have to use WIS for shillelagh, to get the bonus 1d6 for Primal. My math isn’t that great to figure out if advantage and a +1 or a flat +5 would give me a better chance to hit.
In the end I would most likely be using the Great Tree form
Old topic I know, but to answer your question about having a better chance to hit, Shillelagh is you best bet.
A d20 has a 1 in 20 (5%) chance to land on any given number. Rolling with advantage has some complicated maths involved, but the probability rolls off logarithmically, and still usually results in a higher chance to roll any given number. This changes when you start adding differing modifiers to your rolls.
If you were attacking a creature with an AC of 13 with no modifiers, that gives you a range of 8 values that would result in a hit (13 - 20 inclusive). This results in a 40% chance to hit on any given roll of the d20 (8 x 5%). A +1 from Strength would make that 45% as you can roll 9 values now (13 - 21 inclusive). Adding advantage from Primal Beast would take that to a 69.75% chance to hit. To hit without advantage with a +5 from Wisdom due to Shillelagh would be 13 values (13 - 25 inclusive), or 65%.
As you can see there isn't much of a difference, and with a target between 1 and 16 the chances stay within 5% of each other (literally the difference between single digits on the die roll), with the +1 with advantage coming out on top. But while rarer, an AC of 17 or higher results in +5 without advantage taking over, and results in a chance to hit higher AC targets. Rolling a natural 20 (depending on DM ruling, the only way to hit an AC higher than your roll range) with advantage is a 9.75% chance, while rolling a 20 with a +5 has a 30% chance, and even a 24 has 10% chance. Higher targets are the downfall of a low modifier regardless of advantage.
There is also other benefits to using Shillelagh, namely the lack of need to spend a spell slot to increase its chances with Guardian of Nature, and also the increased damage; 1d8 + 5 (6 min, 13 max) with Shillelagh vs 1d4 + 1 (2 min, 5 max) with a standard club, or 1d6/1d8 + 1 (2 min, 7/9 max) with a standard quarterstaff. Primal Beast's bonus damage applies to melee weapon attacks, not specifically Strength based melee attacks, meaning that Shillelagh can also benefit from this, meaning that it cancels out for determining which is better. Shillelagh also has the benefit of being a magical weapon which allows it to bypass non-magical physical damage resistance, which is a fairly common one.
Additionally if you want to push your hit chances to it's limits (only counting Shillelagh and Guardian of Nature), using Great Tree form would allow Shillelagh to hit with advantage, meaning that the chance to hit with it goes way up, with a 51% chance of a 20 or higher, meaning the vast majority of targets would easily be hit.
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With the Guardian of Nature spell, if I take the Primal Beast form would I be better off still using my club, with shillelagh, and use my +5 WIS for attack or the Advantage and attack with my STR which is only +1?
And with the Great Tree form would my WIS attack rolls, which would be at Advantage, include spell attacks that use WIS to hit? I assume yes since it doesn’t specify the attack action or weapon attacks.
First time having access to it and wasn’t sure how good it is and want to make sure I use it to its fullest if the opportunity arises.
Thanks
I can't speak for the Primal Beast, but yes, with Great Tree any WIS spells and DEX attacks are cast with advantage.
The club does 1d4 damage, so with Primal Beast you'd do 1d4+1d6+1 if you hit (3 min, 6 average, 11 max). With Great Tree you'd be doing 1d8+5 (6 min, 9.5 average, 13 max).
And yes, Great Tree will affect anything that uses an attack roll, spell or weapon, that uses DEX or WIS to calculate the modifier. So a bow, rapier, or a spell like Ice Knife would work. A spell like Thunderwave would not, because there's no attack roll on your part, just a saving roll on the part of someone else.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
With shillelagh the club would do 1d8, and was wondering if advantage and using my +1 STR to hit would be better than no advantage but +5 from WIS to hit. I don’t have to use WIS for shillelagh, to get the bonus 1d6 for Primal. My math isn’t that great to figure out if advantage and a +1 or a flat +5 would give me a better chance to hit.
In the end I would most likely be using the Great Tree form
Old topic I know, but to answer your question about having a better chance to hit, Shillelagh is you best bet.
A d20 has a 1 in 20 (5%) chance to land on any given number. Rolling with advantage has some complicated maths involved, but the probability rolls off logarithmically, and still usually results in a higher chance to roll any given number. This changes when you start adding differing modifiers to your rolls.
If you were attacking a creature with an AC of 13 with no modifiers, that gives you a range of 8 values that would result in a hit (13 - 20 inclusive). This results in a 40% chance to hit on any given roll of the d20 (8 x 5%). A +1 from Strength would make that 45% as you can roll 9 values now (13 - 21 inclusive). Adding advantage from Primal Beast would take that to a 69.75% chance to hit. To hit without advantage with a +5 from Wisdom due to Shillelagh would be 13 values (13 - 25 inclusive), or 65%.
As you can see there isn't much of a difference, and with a target between 1 and 16 the chances stay within 5% of each other (literally the difference between single digits on the die roll), with the +1 with advantage coming out on top. But while rarer, an AC of 17 or higher results in +5 without advantage taking over, and results in a chance to hit higher AC targets. Rolling a natural 20 (depending on DM ruling, the only way to hit an AC higher than your roll range) with advantage is a 9.75% chance, while rolling a 20 with a +5 has a 30% chance, and even a 24 has 10% chance. Higher targets are the downfall of a low modifier regardless of advantage.
There is also other benefits to using Shillelagh, namely the lack of need to spend a spell slot to increase its chances with Guardian of Nature, and also the increased damage; 1d8 + 5 (6 min, 13 max) with Shillelagh vs 1d4 + 1 (2 min, 5 max) with a standard club, or 1d6/1d8 + 1 (2 min, 7/9 max) with a standard quarterstaff. Primal Beast's bonus damage applies to melee weapon attacks, not specifically Strength based melee attacks, meaning that Shillelagh can also benefit from this, meaning that it cancels out for determining which is better. Shillelagh also has the benefit of being a magical weapon which allows it to bypass non-magical physical damage resistance, which is a fairly common one.
Additionally if you want to push your hit chances to it's limits (only counting Shillelagh and Guardian of Nature), using Great Tree form would allow Shillelagh to hit with advantage, meaning that the chance to hit with it goes way up, with a 51% chance of a 20 or higher, meaning the vast majority of targets would easily be hit.