I'll soon play a character who is an Echo Knight, with a backstory being that he was once a noble who lost everything and now his old love-interest/rival is calling him from the 9 circles, letting him 'use her power' via her shadow(along with a reflavored abberant dragonmark as the source of his powers). Now, initially I wanted to play a Kalashtar for the flavor and because I really like their concept(and with soem reflavoring the abilities can be easily explained) but then I took a look at the Dhampir... And the Reborn... And the Kor... And so on and so on, and now I can't decide on which race I want to pick more, because some offer amazing utility while others are much more flavorful. I need a bit of help in choosing something, both from the mechanical and both from the RP perspective(although something that gives both would be fantastic, even if I have to do some reflavoring).
My DM's only condition is that I can't use any UA race, only the ones that have been released(non-UA Dhampir, Naga etc' included)
Hi have had the idea of doing it with a Water Genasi. The mechanics does not really support the subclass, but the flavouring is a little different and unusual. Instead of a shadowy form of yourself that you create, you instead create a watery form that you leave behind.
I love making characters with classes or subclasses that build upon their own flavour!
I’m not sure if its the exact inspiration you’re looking for based on the options of lineages you’re looking at but one of the coolest character concepts I’ve been able to play alongside was a thief Githyanki Echo Knight who split from his original self by fleeing the astral plane into the material plane. His Echo ended up ultimately being a kind of AU version of himself who’s a detective while the original one was a criminal.
I think the concept you were going for is dope too, though I haven’t really familiarized myself with the flavor purpose of the Abberant Dragonmark.
If your DM allows flanking, Echo Knight works really well with an Elf or Half Elf for the Elven Accuracy feat.
Not because you can flank with your echo(you can't), but moving the echo to flanking positions and attacking from its position or bamfing with it before attacking gives you a much higher chance to crit with smaller risk to yourself.
I used this in a campaign with a 2 level dip into Bladesinger Wizard to play a pirate who would use the abilities in combat when boarding other ships.
I personally really like the water genasi idea... I had a similar thought with an air genasi.. sort of having a windy elemental version of yourself as the echo and drifting with the wind as you teleport...
Alternatively you can completely reflavor the echo into magical Portal or something.. imagine a floating door where your character can freely pop out and wack people from
A bugbear Echo Knight with Polearm Master can control amazing amounts of the battleground because both have 15’ reach and opportunity attacks.. Mechanically, it’s pretty amazing. It may not match your back story at all, though, and I would put a cool back story over mechanically impressive racial abilities.
Bugbears aren’t exactly traditional nobility, but you could be the child of a bugbear chieftain or the like.
A bugbear Echo Knight with Polearm Master can control amazing amounts of the battleground because both have 15’ reach and opportunity attacks.. Mechanically, it’s pretty amazing. It may not match your back story at all, though, and I would put a cool back story over mechanically impressive racial abilities.
Bugbears aren’t exactly traditional nobility, but you could be the child of a bugbear chieftain or the like.
Unfortunately, the "opportunity attack" feature of the 3rd level EK ability does not work as well with polearms. It triggers "When a creature that you can see within 5 feet of your echo moves at least 5 feet away from it," so if the creature is more than 5 feet from the echo, it does not trigger.
I'm about to start a campaign with a Kalashtar EK because I loved the idea of flavoring the Echo less as an alternate timeline version of yourself and more as the embodiment of the Quori spirit that you share. From a mechanical standpoint, the advantage on wisdom saves is super helpful if you're leaning more physical-based and don't have a super great WIS score to begin with. Being able to telepathically talk to party members as you bounce all over the battlefield isn't bad either. The racial bonuses of +2 WIS and +1 CHA aren't super useful for a fighter, but if you're focused more on character than power they can round things out a bit. Or if your DM allows the 'customize your origin' rule you can change these to more useful stats (I personally changed it to +2 CON and +1 DEX).
A bugbear Echo Knight with Polearm Master can control amazing amounts of the battleground because both have 15’ reach and opportunity attacks.. Mechanically, it’s pretty amazing. It may not match your back story at all, though, and I would put a cool back story over mechanically impressive racial abilities.
Bugbears aren’t exactly traditional nobility, but you could be the child of a bugbear chieftain or the like.
Unfortunately, the "opportunity attack" feature of the 3rd level EK ability does not work as well with polearms. It triggers "When a creature that you can see within 5 feet of your echo moves at least 5 feet away from it," so if the creature is more than 5 feet from the echo, it does not trigger.
Where the polearm and reach matter is when you're attacking through echo and target is trying to reach you. If they kill echo and move towards you, they create an opportunity attack per the Polearm Master feat. Assuming that you hit, sentinel triggers the movement lock down and you pull back to 30 feet and BA a new echo, rinse and repeat. With that said, I'm not sure that Bugbear adds anything unless you want to go Spear and Shield.
Mechanically V. Human or custom lineage to start with PAM and pick up sentinel at level 4. On an Echo Kinght there is no other class that comes close to this.
If I was going another race I would look at Shadar Kai, Goblin or Eladrin because they all have the ability to either disengage (Goblin) or Teleport (Shadar Kai, Eladrin) as a bonus action.
This really lets you use positioning with your Echo to really control the battlefield.
That does not speak to the thematics though and Echo Knight can be a strong build with any race.
True, there are a number of potential enemies with a 10' range (especially if you're doing war campaigns). I would argue that the vast majority have a 5' or 15' melee (ranged attacks obviously negate this entire conversation). Assuming that they moved into your PAM range, they have either 1. Ignored your echo (which created an OA and you wouldn't have needed or been able to use PAM anyway) and you simply teleport on your turn. 2. Killed your echo and move after you. 3. Came from a completely different direction and created an OA by approaching you.
In situations 2 and 3, if they have 10' reach AND they have multiple attacks (in situation 2), then yes, you're going to get attacked. I acknowledge I dismissed the reach issue a bit too quickly, but I don't think the scenario of a 10' reach melee only opponent occurs frequently enough to justify a racial selection. I'd be more likely to make that choice because of the shield and spear combo. I think this is particularly true when accounting for party dynamics.
I like Bugbear (new MotM) for great burst nova dmg, 6 attacks first round with 12d6 added from surprise attack is a nice way to soften up an encounter.
I do wonder about Polearm, yes it pairs well with Sentinel if your Echo gets killed and they come after you, but your bonus attack will be utilized so much with the Echo you're missing half of the reason you take Polearm. Also taking those two feats means you have less chance to hit as you're missing out increasing your STR. If you go Custom Lineage of Variant Human you could take both and do well.
I'm thinking of going 6 lvl Echo and 3 lvls Ancestral Guardian Barbarian with GWM then Sentinel. It takes a while to turn on (lvl 9 which sucks for some campaigns) but Ancestral Guardians means any creature you hit (through your echo) has disadvantage against anyone except you and that includes your Echo. So Rage, Reckless Attack, GWM through Echo, creature now has disadvantage to kill your echo or tries to run to you and you then opportunity attack through echo and via Sentinel keep them there forced to attack with disadvantage against your echo. Its very single creature focused but can work well.
(Btw you could also just go 5 lvls Barbarian and 4 lvls of Echo Knight with this build, either works, if you won't get to lvl 14 which would allow you 3x attack from Fighter, i'd probably go more Barbarian with the extra movement and advantage of initiative).
I’ll be starting a campaign soon and will be playing a Shadar Kai Echo Knight. For me this is a race which just fits well with the ability to manifest echo. I like the teleport ability of the shadar Kai, being able to have it at level one and then I think it adds a nice little caveat into the echo knights manifest echo. For me that adds a bit more flavour and substance of how I became I able to teleport upon reaching level 3, rather than suddenly having this ability to teleport and switch places with my echo. Not to mention the increase to DEX and CON as part of the race, these compliment fighters well. Will potentially look into multiclassing with rogue at some point for a level or 2 to get sneak attack, and then you can really deal a lot of damage if played right. As for the RP side of things, we’re in a low magic world where the raven queen doesn’t exist and elves are few. I feel this allows my character to be a bit darker and chaotic which fits well for someone who comes from the shadowfell!
I'll soon play a character who is an Echo Knight, with a backstory being that he was once a noble who lost everything and now his old love-interest/rival is calling him from the 9 circles, letting him 'use her power' via her shadow(along with a reflavored abberant dragonmark as the source of his powers). Now, initially I wanted to play a Kalashtar for the flavor and because I really like their concept(and with soem reflavoring the abilities can be easily explained) but then I took a look at the Dhampir... And the Reborn... And the Kor... And so on and so on, and now I can't decide on which race I want to pick more, because some offer amazing utility while others are much more flavorful. I need a bit of help in choosing something, both from the mechanical and both from the RP perspective(although something that gives both would be fantastic, even if I have to do some reflavoring).
My DM's only condition is that I can't use any UA race, only the ones that have been released(non-UA Dhampir, Naga etc' included)
Variant human's always pretty good, you can tailor the feat to fit your character.
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HERE.Hi have had the idea of doing it with a Water Genasi. The mechanics does not really support the subclass, but the flavouring is a little different and unusual. Instead of a shadowy form of yourself that you create, you instead create a watery form that you leave behind.
I love making characters with classes or subclasses that build upon their own flavour!
I'm playing a ranged Lizardman EK... I use Unleashed Incarnation to deliver bite attacks
I’m not sure if its the exact inspiration you’re looking for based on the options of lineages you’re looking at but one of the coolest character concepts I’ve been able to play alongside was a thief Githyanki Echo Knight who split from his original self by fleeing the astral plane into the material plane. His Echo ended up ultimately being a kind of AU version of himself who’s a detective while the original one was a criminal.
I think the concept you were going for is dope too, though I haven’t really familiarized myself with the flavor purpose of the Abberant Dragonmark.
If your DM allows flanking, Echo Knight works really well with an Elf or Half Elf for the Elven Accuracy feat.
Not because you can flank with your echo(you can't), but moving the echo to flanking positions and attacking from its position or bamfing with it before attacking gives you a much higher chance to crit with smaller risk to yourself.
I used this in a campaign with a 2 level dip into Bladesinger Wizard to play a pirate who would use the abilities in combat when boarding other ships.
I personally really like the water genasi idea... I had a similar thought with an air genasi.. sort of having a windy elemental version of yourself as the echo and drifting with the wind as you teleport...
Alternatively you can completely reflavor the echo into magical Portal or something.. imagine a floating door where your character can freely pop out and wack people from
A bugbear Echo Knight with Polearm Master can control amazing amounts of the battleground because both have 15’ reach and opportunity attacks.. Mechanically, it’s pretty amazing. It may not match your back story at all, though, and I would put a cool back story over mechanically impressive racial abilities.
Bugbears aren’t exactly traditional nobility, but you could be the child of a bugbear chieftain or the like.
Unfortunately, the "opportunity attack" feature of the 3rd level EK ability does not work as well with polearms. It triggers "When a creature that you can see within 5 feet of your echo moves at least 5 feet away from it," so if the creature is more than 5 feet from the echo, it does not trigger.
That’s a good point. It still gives OP an enormous reach for both his character and the echo, even if the echo has a normal OA reach.
Bigbear - Bugbear PAM-Sentinel is awesome. It is awesome before the Bugbear upgrades in MOM even.
After Bugbear, I would say the standard three that are the best race for every class:
Goblin (well every class except Rogue)
V. Human
Custom Lineage
I'm about to start a campaign with a Kalashtar EK because I loved the idea of flavoring the Echo less as an alternate timeline version of yourself and more as the embodiment of the Quori spirit that you share. From a mechanical standpoint, the advantage on wisdom saves is super helpful if you're leaning more physical-based and don't have a super great WIS score to begin with. Being able to telepathically talk to party members as you bounce all over the battlefield isn't bad either. The racial bonuses of +2 WIS and +1 CHA aren't super useful for a fighter, but if you're focused more on character than power they can round things out a bit. Or if your DM allows the 'customize your origin' rule you can change these to more useful stats (I personally changed it to +2 CON and +1 DEX).
Where the polearm and reach matter is when you're attacking through echo and target is trying to reach you. If they kill echo and move towards you, they create an opportunity attack per the Polearm Master feat. Assuming that you hit, sentinel triggers the movement lock down and you pull back to 30 feet and BA a new echo, rinse and repeat. With that said, I'm not sure that Bugbear adds anything unless you want to go Spear and Shield.
Mechanically V. Human or custom lineage to start with PAM and pick up sentinel at level 4. On an Echo Kinght there is no other class that comes close to this.
If I was going another race I would look at Shadar Kai, Goblin or Eladrin because they all have the ability to either disengage (Goblin) or Teleport (Shadar Kai, Eladrin) as a bonus action.
This really lets you use positioning with your Echo to really control the battlefield.
That does not speak to the thematics though and Echo Knight can be a strong build with any race.
There are a lot of enemies with a 10 foot reach. You stop them at 10 feet with PAM, great they attack you.
There are very few with a 15 foot reach.
True, there are a number of potential enemies with a 10' range (especially if you're doing war campaigns). I would argue that the vast majority have a 5' or 15' melee (ranged attacks obviously negate this entire conversation). Assuming that they moved into your PAM range, they have either 1. Ignored your echo (which created an OA and you wouldn't have needed or been able to use PAM anyway) and you simply teleport on your turn. 2. Killed your echo and move after you. 3. Came from a completely different direction and created an OA by approaching you.
In situations 2 and 3, if they have 10' reach AND they have multiple attacks (in situation 2), then yes, you're going to get attacked. I acknowledge I dismissed the reach issue a bit too quickly, but I don't think the scenario of a 10' reach melee only opponent occurs frequently enough to justify a racial selection. I'd be more likely to make that choice because of the shield and spear combo. I think this is particularly true when accounting for party dynamics.
It seems the Bugbear's reach only works on your turn, so it will not work with PAM to create an OA.
I like Bugbear (new MotM) for great burst nova dmg, 6 attacks first round with 12d6 added from surprise attack is a nice way to soften up an encounter.
I do wonder about Polearm, yes it pairs well with Sentinel if your Echo gets killed and they come after you, but your bonus attack will be utilized so much with the Echo you're missing half of the reason you take Polearm. Also taking those two feats means you have less chance to hit as you're missing out increasing your STR. If you go Custom Lineage of Variant Human you could take both and do well.
I'm thinking of going 6 lvl Echo and 3 lvls Ancestral Guardian Barbarian with GWM then Sentinel. It takes a while to turn on (lvl 9 which sucks for some campaigns) but Ancestral Guardians means any creature you hit (through your echo) has disadvantage against anyone except you and that includes your Echo. So Rage, Reckless Attack, GWM through Echo, creature now has disadvantage to kill your echo or tries to run to you and you then opportunity attack through echo and via Sentinel keep them there forced to attack with disadvantage against your echo. Its very single creature focused but can work well.
(Btw you could also just go 5 lvls Barbarian and 4 lvls of Echo Knight with this build, either works, if you won't get to lvl 14 which would allow you 3x attack from Fighter, i'd probably go more Barbarian with the extra movement and advantage of initiative).
I’ll be starting a campaign soon and will be playing a Shadar Kai Echo Knight. For me this is a race which just fits well with the ability to manifest echo. I like the teleport ability of the shadar Kai, being able to have it at level one and then I think it adds a nice little caveat into the echo knights manifest echo. For me that adds a bit more flavour and substance of how I became I able to teleport upon reaching level 3, rather than suddenly having this ability to teleport and switch places with my echo. Not to mention the increase to DEX and CON as part of the race, these compliment fighters well. Will potentially look into multiclassing with rogue at some point for a level or 2 to get sneak attack, and then you can really deal a lot of damage if played right. As for the RP side of things, we’re in a low magic world where the raven queen doesn’t exist and elves are few. I feel this allows my character to be a bit darker and chaotic which fits well for someone who comes from the shadowfell!
Your echo only has 5ft AoO no matyer what