Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Rune Knight caught my eye as a fun sublcass to play. Couple questions:
1) Has anyone tried this in 5.5/2024 rules?
2) What kind of feats have folks found useful? For example, do people find Polearm Master to be worth it with Rune Knight's many Bonus Actions & Reactions?
3) Runes - just to be sure, you get the passive benefits of all runes you have inscribed, yes? What about invoking runes - can you invoke more than one rune at a time to get multiple active benefits? (obviously not in the same Bonus Action)
Thanks!
I like the Feats from Bigby Presents: Glory of the Giants as they are on flavor for the Rune Knight. Other feats are dependent on weapons I'm using and character story points I'm pursuing. You can never have too many options for Bonus Actions and Reactions. Flexibility makes combat interesting.
I haven't seen anything that says otherwise, but you do get all of the passive benefits. Same for invoking runes; however, the DM might rule otherwise if he/she thinks that might be overpowered.
Unfortunately, that is a "No" from me.
I have both as a player and a DM. It’s fantastic and one of the most fun times I had as a fighter. I played up through 8, the one I’m DMing just hit 10.
For feats, in both cases we really leaned into the tank part and took Heavy Armor Master. Couple that with the resistance from hill rune and it was super fun. We had one fight with spiders, and hill helped me both on the piercing of the bites and the poison. Definitely my time to shine.
Cloud rune is fantastic to turn enemy crits against other enemies. (And advantage on a couple non-fighter skills sometimes gave me stuff to do outside of combat.) Unfortunately not great against a solo monster, but nothing works in every situation.
Besides HAM, my player is using PAM and really enjoying it. There is a little bonus action competition, but I think it’s the kind that just enough to make interesting tactical decisions, as opposed to it being annoying and feeling like you don’t get to pull of your cool moves.
I went with crusher for a little battlefield control, knocking enemies away from my allies. Worked great.
As for question 3. Yes you always get the passive benefits, and the only thing stopping you from invoking multiple runes is action economy. You can do it, as long as you have the available actions.
Feats - was also thinking Heavy Armor Master, a good way to raise CON, which is important for your DCs, among other benefits. For STR, I was thinking definitely Great Weapon Master & Mage Slayer.
PAM though, am on the fence. Interesting to hear you found it worth it, assuming first round you're forgoing the BA attack to invoke a rune. Seems like that'd be the main reason to take it, since your reaction seems even busier, between at least one rune and also Runic Shield at level 7? I suppose a Fighter has the feats to spare, and PAM might be better than other STR feats, like Slasher (for Halberd or Glaive), even with reduced usage.
Also building on the question of invoking two runes at same time, I had thought you'd want to do that to have all your benefits going during a combat, but then if you can't Short Rest before your next combat, you are somewhat gutted of your Subclass features. So maybe PAM would be helpful there.
Seems how a Rune Knight manages its resources could be highly DM-dependent. Not just for how often Short Rests can happen but also how often you can activate your runes before a combat. Since they only last one minute, you really want to be sure you're about to throw down. By comparison, a Barbarian's rage now lasting 10 minutes makes it feel safer to do ahead of time if you're proceeding through enemy space and/or reasonably expecting combat in fairly soon. Interesting considerations.
Just to be clear, I didn't use PAM; my player uses it. But he seems to be liking it. To me, having a couple different bonus actions (there's also second wind in the mix) gives you options as a player and makes it more tactically interesting. There's been some situations when it was clearly a better choice to use one or the other, but some where you have to think about it. To my mind, that's good game design.
When I was doing it as a player, I was in a campaign where we are more likely to have one large set piece combat that could take most or all of the session, so we'd just burn through our resources because a second fight before a rest was rare. I tend to run more multi-fight days. In both cases, the rune knight was really kicking ass.
Also, another thing to consider is grappler and/or unarmed fighting style. You're going to have a high str, and when you go to size large, you can grapple creatures up to huge, and you'll have advantage on those str checks. It actually got to the point I was glad to have a 1-handed weapon and I kind of stopped using a shield, so I could grapple with one hand, and still hit them with my hammer with the other hand. And with unarmed fighting, you get to throw in a 0-action d4 damage just for holding the enemy (not much, but kind of fun). But grappler synergizes really well with being large and dragging people around while you attack them with advantage.
Yeah, options, I like them. And Polearm Master's benefit is squarely good - you always want to pour on the damage - and it's resource free. On the other hand, what's not free is the feat pick. Fighters can afford it more than others, but that feat could have been something else. So with just those first three feat slots, I'd for sure want to pick up Great Weapon Master and Mage Slayer. Only one slot left for Polearm Master or Heavy Armor Master. Normally I'd think PAM would be stronger, but with such a BA-heavy class (there's also Second Wind), it seems like it could easily be left out. But then I haven't played it.
I was very much leaning toward a reach weapon though, so it feels kinda sad to not have PAM on that.
Considering which species might fit a Rune Knight best:
1. Dragonborn: Main attractions are A) of course flight, which last 10 min so you can activate prior to combat, and B) ranged breath weapon, based on CON that only replaces 1 attack. Darkvision & a resistance are also nice, but lack of skill kind of hurts, since this subclass has some funky skill boosts.
2. Wood Elf: Mainly for the extra movement: 35 (45 with Longstrider). Pass Without a Trace is also a helpful team buff, not competing with any other concentration spell. Perception proficiency and minor protection from Charmed. Darkvision cool.
3. Human: Two Origin Feats when there are more Origin Feats than ever - lots of possibilities. Would love Alert and maybe Lucky to give Advantage since I lack an easy source, unless I take a Topple weapon. Heroic Inspiration is a cool X-factor to help make saves. And a skill is good here.
Thoughts? Other suggestions?
An Orc Rune Knight with Grappler would be really fun and effective. Adrenaline Rush adding ba dashes to the grapple routine would be great.
Sounds cool in theory. Extra mobility & temp HP is good on any martial. Rune Knight has a pretty busy Bonus Action though: Giant's Might + activating two of the best runes that come on at level 7: Hill & Storm. Those seem to be top priorities.
Grappling with a Rune Knight sounds like it would be ideal for 2014 rules, where the bonus to STR checks from Giant's Might would boost grapple success. I'd be trying to use a Rune Knight in 2024 rules though.
In practice I have found that this is the exact scenario where it feels good to have multiple bonus actions. When all of them are a limited resource and varying degrees of circumstantial, it feels really good to have options at your finger tips. There is an orc war cleric in my group right now. That is a set up that you would similarly wonder if there is too much bonus action clog. There isn’t. What there is, is tactical freedom.
I have played alongside several grapplers in 2024 and it’s still quite potent. It isn’t the boss killer it used to be avoiding LR’s and converting the kill with a cheese grater, but it still has a lot to offer.
Grappler is one heck of a feat, and has applications for offense and support. Being a taxi for teammates and getting them into position is a very real move that can change the shape of a battle. Once you get into abusing the new emanation rules by grappling your spirit guardians/conjure woodland beings caster friend, you will understand the true power.
Grapple or not, the BA dash is a phenomenal ability to have on a melee oriented martial. Your dpr when you can’t reach the target is 0. Even on a non-grappling build Orc and Cloud Goliath would be two of my top picks for a melee rune knight.
Largely in agreement. Definitely love having something solid to do with my Action & Bonus Action each round, and options are a plus. And yeah we were both recommending Orc for Clerics on the other thread, but to me I'd say that's because a Cleric can still do most of its Cleric things without its Bonus Action on a given turn. A Rune Knight that can't activate its two best runes or its Giant's Might misses out on too much of its subclass. Prior to level 7, it's just Giant's Might, but from 7 on, you'd need 3 rounds to get all 3 online. And you do want them online.
Also I'd planned to take Great Weapon Master, which makes occasional but regular enough use of BA to supplement to fill out the other rounds.
Totally agree mobility is a dpr question for martials. I just probably would pick a subclass that doesn't need its BA to help that, like a Tabaxi or a Wood Elf, which gets you 35 movement, 45 with Longstrider, plus other perks. Goliath's Large Form also adds 10 movement to its base 35, and that lasts 10 minutes, meaning like a Barbarian's rage, you can activate it prior to combat much more often. All that said, Orc is still not a bad pick in my view.
Oh well if you’re a great weapon head then grappling is awkward for you anyways. Unless you have access to legacy species and can run Loxodon. Loxodon Rune Knight that grapples with trunk and smacks with gwm at advantage from grappler was a 5.0 build I always wanted to try and never got a chance to. Can’t remember if 5.5 grappler still does that.
Something that intrigues me quite a bit in 5.5 with new gwm and origin feats is enabling a switch hitter build. You go for a starting stat line of 17/16/14/8/10/8. Use Tough as the origin feat to mitigate the 14 con. Archery fighting style carries that 16 dex while you focus on strength first. GWM boosts both your melee and longbow damage. Having that longbow game is interesting on a rune knight because of how good the fire rune restraint is when attached to a ranged attack.T
Yeah I dig the new GWM for its simplicity in part: just extra damage (that scales), plus a reward when you crit or drop an enemy, all while doing something you'd be doing anyway. Because the Bonus Action part is only occasional, it doesn't present as much of a logjam the way Polearm Master does. I'd considered PAM for this, but GWM just fits more easily on this, since both BA & Reaction for Rune Knight are in high demand. The damage output seems pretty similar, from the two GWM features, as well as rolling slightly higher damage dice if you're using a non-reach weapon. I can see PAM more on most Barbarians since their BA is only mainly used first round, if they're not already raging.
Already rocking a grapple build with a 2024 Monk, and that feels perfect. To me, the Rune Knight offers some cool control effects with its runes. Adding grappling could work, especially since Fighters have lots of attacks, but to me, it's lack of good damage boosts cries out for something like GWM, as well as feats that raise your CON to boost your save DCs. Like feats 4, 6, 8, I am looking at: Heavy Armor Master, Great Weapon Master, Mage Slayer. Or something thereabouts.