When I saw this class in the UA, at first I thought it would be incredible to play, but now i'm having a lot of doubts. see, when it was in UA, I thought it would work differently than most others in regards to agile parry, probably the main tradition feature of this class. I thought that when you make an unarmed strike in general during your turn, you get the +2 to AC (so at lvl 5 I thought it would be; Weapon strike + weapon Strike + unarmed bonus = +2 AC. let's call it "option 1") which was great. it showed that you are amazing with your weapon, able to attack and block all in one sweeping motion, giving you an edge over other weapon wielders and showing your mastery with the kinsei weapon. Coming from HEMA fencing, this makes sense as the core lessons is a strike and a block at the same time.
When xanathar's released though, it became very clear that it's really not what I thought it would be. with a lot more people seeing the class, it became general consensus that the way to use the main class feature they get is if you only use the weapon once, punching the rest of the time. (so, lets call it "option 2" lvl 5; Weapon strike + unarmed strike + unarmed strike = +2 AC) which is a little less amazing.
now, this makes me question why you would still take this tradition, at least thematically. if you spent so much time dedicating yourself to the blade and your weapon, why is it actively detrimental to you to use said weapon more than once? in order to use the class to it's full potential, your punching almost as much as an open hand monk, so why not just go open hand? heck, open hand monk can use a weapon more than once per turn and still use all their class abilities on a flurry, suffering no penalties when doing so.
I know it's really petty what i'm talking about (I'm talking about small bonuses, let's be real) but it's really making me question why even have this be a subclass when using option 2, especially for using the longsword or similar weapon. Why even have a longsword when I could just make a dagger a kinsei weapon and not even be phased by the loss of attack options, keeping being a "shielded monk" while just punching everything that moved?
It's still a fun class to play, and at 5th level Monks are doing 1d6 of damage with their unarmed attack. A +2 bonus to AC is huge in 5e! It's not minor by any stretch of the imagination!
It's still a fun class to play, and at 5th level Monks are doing 1d6 of damage with their unarmed attack. A +2 bonus to AC is huge in 5e! It's not minor by any stretch of the imagination!
yea, but at the same time they are not using their weapon when getting the shield bonus, a core mechanic of this class, which as I said it's a thematic thing. why bother carry a sword when you're just going to be punching everything in order to get that AC bonus?
I am currently playing a Kensei in my online campaign, and I picked the subclass based on flavor and character idea alone, initially. Now, Kensei, imho, is a subclass that changes with the growth in levels and the additional powers you get from the base Monk class. From levels 3 and 4 you have an effective boost in damage both melee and ranged. You lose nothing and get to deal more damage (1d10+dex with a longsword, which you can use two handed and still do your bonus unharmed attach [nothing in any rule or official reply I have come across dispute this at least, also considering you could still wield the sword with two hands and throw a kick at your opponent), and you should already have an AC of at least 16, which is not too bad at level 3-4. If need be you can decide to forgo a round of additional damage for a +2 to AC, which is no little thing, as Tim said.
At level 5 things change drastically, as you get an additional attack which effectively allows you to do one weapon attack and one unharmed attack, now sacrificing less damage thanks to the 1d6 matial arts damage die, and potentially always having 18+ AC (following up the previous example, as high as 19 without magic items, considering Dex has been raised to at least 18 with ASI/Feat). This combo remains valid and useful all the way up to at least lvl 17, when the martial arts dice changes to 1d10 and therefore meets the baseline damage of a longsword. Along the way, though, you get Deft Strike, which makes your weapon attacks more deadly, and that alone makes the use of at least one weapon attack still valid, as you could very well do weapon attack+martial arts damage (1 ki) - unarmed attack (+2 AC) - bonus action unharmed attack, dishing out a lot of damage for the same cost of a flurry of blows and getting a +2 AC; which is especially useful if you have, for example, advantage only to the first attack you perform (like from a Guiding Bolt), as this would allow you to deal the same damage as a Flurry of Blows but with less chance of missing one attack. Sharpen the blade is quite situational, as you might have a bonus-granting magic weapon by the time you get to lvl 11, but it's nice if you find yourself suddenly separated from your personal weapon and find a normal version of it laying around to use while you look for your own. Unerring Accuracy is just plain OP, basically always granting you a soft Advantage on your first weapon attack (which ties-in very well with Deft Strike).
To sum up: yes, until lvl 5 Agile Parry is quite situational, but that's the price to pay to then, from lvl 5, being able to virtually not have to move from in front of the enemy and still hardly being hit and dish out high damage each turn. The Kensei is an "in-the-face" subclass for the monk, while other subclasses allow for more mobility, spell access, forms of auto-heal or ranged-focused attacks.
At least this is my view on it, aside from the fact that I just love the thematic :P
When xanathar's released though, it became very clear that it's really not what I thought it would be. with a lot more people seeing the class, it became general consensus that the way to use the main class feature they get is if you only use the weapon once, punching the rest of the time. (so, lets call it "option 2" lvl 5; Weapon strike + unarmed strike + unarmed strike = +2 AC) which is a little less amazing.
Hmm... I think that the people who said you were punching "rest of the time" were referring to Flurry of Blows, which is specifically unarmed strikes, and takes place from levels 1-4. That's your option 2, weapon+unarmed+unarmed, as the only option. At level 5+, you should be doing the following: Weapon+Weapon+Unarmed(+Unarmed if Flurry-of-Blows). Either option 1, or option 3 if flurry of blows is used.
Kensei is built so that you're not going to be using Patient Defense or Step of the Wind - you're going to be using Flurry of Blows or Stunning Strike for most of the game. Possibly at the same time.
Mephista, I think LeK is correct about getting the AC bonus.
Agile Parry.
If you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon
So, until level 5, if you want the bonus AC you are only using your unarmed attack. Once you hit lvl 5, you'll be making 1 weapon attack and all the rest unarmed strikes to get the bonus AC. As or the rest of it, I think you are right that most Ki will be spent on Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike.
Bluebattlebuddy, to me, the Kensai makes sense. It has a devil's choice. Either the sub-class lets you use a d10 weapon (better then any other monk until lvl 17) for damage OR get +2 AC or you can get a small bonus to damage at Ranged, because you're not getting to Flurry.
Although any monk can deal 1d8 damage at first level with a quarterstaff or spear... so I really see the bonus AC as the main feature.
Mephista, I think LeK is correct about getting the AC bonus.
And the bonus action unarmed strike you get from Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows is part of the Attack Action, as I'm reading it. I believe that's the intent of the ability, and I don't see anything that would contradict that belief.
The Attack action, in the rules, states that you make one ranged or melee attack, then goes on to state that some features modify the attacks you make. I believe that Martial Arts's bonus action unarmed strike counts, since its dependent upon making an Attack action. Natural language, and all.
And/or Deft Strike once you are level 6, depending on how many Ki points you are willing to spend in one turn ;)
I did forget about Deft Strike, admittedly, but it seems to be a better option to use Flurry of Blows in many cases. All depends on how you're allocating your points, I guess - going nova early on, or hoarding. Or scoring a crit.
Bluebattlebuddy, to me, the Kensai makes sense. It has a devil's choice. Either the sub-class lets you use a d10 weapon (better then any other monk until lvl 17) for damage OR get +2 AC or you can get a small bonus to damage at Ranged, because you're not getting to Flurry.
Although any monk can deal 1d8 damage at first level with a quarterstaff or spear... so I really see the bonus AC as the main feature.
Which is why i'm questioning it thematically. any monk can be completely and fully effective using a spear for the main attack action while doing what they are good at effectively. open hand can use flurry and do a myriad of things to the enemy, sun soul can use burning hands, and elements can do water whip, ect. while most of these use ki points, they have steady damage with a spear and punching, without needing to really change it up. the weapon focused class who relies on the weapon cannot.
I suppose that's just my problem with it. it's a cool class, and as LeK described it still has it's stength and even it's unarmed damage scales when you level, but it's still wierd thematically. I play a kinsei with some other people at a game store every so often, and there I asked my dm the rules conundrum between options 1 and 2, and when thinking about option 2 he just asked "then what is the point of this class?" when thinking about the way it would play. I played the class using option 1 and it still works, while it doesnt outdamage the other classes by any means it still makes me feel awesome being a sword master. I dunno, it'sjust a little something that irks me to no end when trying to discuss it, even if I still love playing this class.
They all have their schticks. You listed out the other path's schticks. The kensei can trade some damage for some defense or use a bow. Stylistically I view the kensei less as the katana-wielding sword master and more like a swordsman from a wuxia movie like Crouching Tiger or Hero. The samurai sword masters I've seen in media typically don't engage in as much unarmed combat, but the kensei is actively encouraged to use their sword to ward off their enemy's attacks and use punches and kicks. It's definitely meant to sacrifice some damage for some defense. If that's not what you want to do then any of the other paths using a spear or staff is probably more appealing.
If you are really concerned about the ability thematically, then how about we re-word the rules :
"Steel Wall. If you pull at least one melee kensei weapon strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use it to defend yourself more effectively. Damage for the pulled attack is equal to your unarmed strike. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated."
The mechanics haven't changed*, but you are now using your sword fully once again.
Non thematically, the rules appears to be a game balance issue. I agree with FMB above, the option gives the monk the (devil's) choice - full attack and maybe get hit, or hold back a bit, and hopefully avoid getting hit. The monk is not a berserker (except when he is, of course). Boxers get hit, martial artists defend first, hit second. This is reflected in their unarmoured armour class. Combat should be about meaningful choices - I think 5th Edition serves us pretty well in that regard.
If you don't like the rule on thematic grounds, then don't use the option. That is what healing potions are for, after all.
*The mechanics as I understand them; The monk player at our table disagrees with me.
If you are really concerned about the ability thematically, then how about we re-word the rules :
"Steel Wall. If you pull at least one melee kensei weapon strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use it to defend yourself more effectively. Damage for the pulled attack is equal to your unarmed strike. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated."
The mechanics haven't changed*, but you are now using your sword fully once again.
Non thematically, the rules appears to be a game balance issue. I agree with FMB above, the option gives the monk the (devil's) choice - full attack and maybe get hit, or hold back a bit, and hopefully avoid getting hit. The monk is not a berserker (except when he is, of course). Boxers get hit, martial artists defend first, hit second. This is reflected in their unarmoured armour class. Combat should be about meaningful choices - I think 5th Edition serves us pretty well in that regard.
If you don't like the rule on thematic grounds, then don't use the option. That is what healing potions are for, after all.
*The mechanics as I understand them; The monk player at our table disagrees with me.
At a first read, the change you propose indeed doesn't change the mechanic, but it does when you factor in the possible bonus to hit of the weapon, should it be a magic weapon granting bonus on the attack. The damage output would remain the same as if you were to sacrifice the weapon attack for the unarmed one, but the chances to hit could vary (at least this is the only reason I could see your resident monk disagreeing with you).
I still think it's a very nice alternative, and very in line with the flavor of the class, imho.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I believe that the bonus action is separate from the attack action. (As noted above, our monk agrees with your interpretation.)
"When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn."
You (meaning all characters in general) can take an attack option without taking a bonus action, and you can take a bonus action taking an attack action. They are separate entities. The wording above suggests (strongly) that the unarmed attack is taken as your bonus action rather than a bonus action. (Despite the first sentence muddying the waters slightly here.)
If it had read "As part of the attack option you may make one unarmed strike" then maybe I could agree.
@LEK - my bad; I was stingy with magic items when D&D had a red cover, and 5th Edition has made me worse. (I like to think it has justified my DMing style)
Do weapons get a bonus to hit and damage? :)
Can anyone tell me when a monk WOULDN'T take a free unarmed strike as part of an attack option? (Fighting a grey ooze, maybe?)
I really like the Kensai - but then I don't see it as a monk with a sword.
I believe that the bonus action is separate from the attack action. (As noted above, our monk agrees with your interpretation.)
Well, you're free to interpret things that way, but it doesn't make sense given the subclass as a whole. Remember that 5e is predicated on natural language and local rulings than trying for exact technical languages. And, as the OP said, what's the point then? Its awkward and strange and doesn't fit the theme of the subclass.
One of the developer videos said that, when developing subclasses, the team made sure that each one had a story they told. And the mechanics are an attempt to model that story. I can't see Kensei as a punching machine as that story, so there's dissonance right there.
You (meaning all characters in general) can take an attack option without taking a bonus action, and you can take a bonus action taking an attack action. They are separate entities.
They are linked and interdependent entities. They are reliant upon each other. I don't believe you can call that separate.
You want to run things that way, go for it. 5e is meant to be flexible with its word choice so you can run things however you see fit. So, have fun with your way, if you want to do things that way. I stand by my statement as intuitive, interesting/fun, and within both the spirit and wording of the rules.
True. And I will........Until someone persuades me their way is better (meaning more fun.)
Just because I disagree with your viewpoint does not mean I don't value it. Semantics aside, I prefer my way of reading the rules for the ablity - it gives a meaningful choice, sacrifice this to gain that - while you think the Kensai should be seen as a fluid swordsman, blade constantly in motion and not worrying unduly over defence as his 'flashing web of steel' sees to that. Your way is more economic at the table, no waiting on the monk to decide to lose a couple of points of damage to gain a couple of points of defence - If he is attacking, then he is harder to hit. Full stop. Combat is faster, and consequently probably more fun.
I like my way, but if I find it slows things down, or the monk is suffering because of it (compared with other classes or choices) then I will probably go with your reading of the situation.
Strategic battles are important to me, less so for others.
* * *
"You want to run things that way, go for it."
I'm not sure that works with the AL, hence the need for stimulating discussions. :)
Basically, bonus actions, like movement, happen whenever. A level 5 monk can run 10' up to someone, hit them, run another 10 over to another creature, hit them with their bonus action, move another 5', smack them with the last attack from Extra Attack. The only exception is if the ability specifically calls out timing. Flurry of Blows can only happen after the Attack Action completely ends, as per rules, so that doesn't work with the Kensei features (and I admit to being wrong about that, as I misread FoB and missed the "after" part). But everything else seems legit. The regular martial arts attack doesn't specify timing, so it can be used as part of the Attack.
I believe your way is how it's defiantly intended, though I may be biased about this approach (obviously). the two are intertwined, and until we have the official ruling then it's open to interpretation, choices between RAI and RAW. as written, the bonus action attack does not activate the AC bonus because, as described by others, it is a separate entity and therefor not part of the attack. As intended, the bonus action attack can be seen as an extension of said attack action, being unable to be used without the main action, and therefore it activates the AC bonus.
something like @The_Plundered_Tombs 's flavored description would have been a little better with how the actual class was written, and would have (probably) allowed for the weapon's effects to be better felt and use more of the kinsei's natural bonuses to said weapon. it does give an interesting idea, allows the kinsei to keep some bonuses without feeling wasted,and works around the problem of the bonus action.
Honestly, if I would have thought about this more in the days of the unearthed arcana, I would have suggested something like that, but I didn't know these forums existed to talk about said feedback. this is inspiring me to create some homebrew class based around a weapon master A la the homebrewed way of four elements, so I may work on that if this is really bugging me.
for now though, I do see the value of the devil's choice, but we already have something like that; patient defense. it costs a Ki point but it provides disadvantage on attacks at the cost of the bonus action. combined with agile parry it can give you even more defense, but that is costing a ki-point, and damage, a bigger choice.
I believe your way is how it's defiantly intended, though I may be biased about this approach (obviously). the two are intertwined, and until we have the official ruling then it's open to interpretation, choices between RAI and RAW. as written, the bonus action attack does not activate the AC bonus because, as described by others, it is a separate entity and therefor not part of the attack. As intended, the bonus action attack can be seen as an extension of said attack action, being unable to be used without the main action, and therefore it activates the AC bonus.
1) You really shouldn't start an argument based on your interpretation of written text with the phrase "I believe your way is how it's defiantly intended."
In what way were the game designers being defiant? Defiantly changing the normal interaction between actions and bonus actions? I'm sure malapropisms are delightful but they have no place here, and you are being negligee is your defence by using one.
The you state that they [presumably the unarmed attack and the bonus action] are intertwined. Then it is a separate entity, and then an extension of said attack! You can take an attack action without taking a bonus action (if you have already taken a bonus action you are specifically prohibited from taking a bonus action). You can take a bonus action with no need for an attack option. Separate. Occasionally connected. Hardly intertwined. Never an extension, although sometimes an addition.
Example :
"Second Wind
You have a limited well of stamina that you can draw on to protect yourself from harm. On your turn, you can use a bonus action to regain hit points equal to 1d10 + your fighter level. Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again."
No attack involved.
"
Flurry of Blows
Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action."
After the attack action. Not during, or at the end of, but after; separate.
When I saw this class in the UA, at first I thought it would be incredible to play, but now i'm having a lot of doubts. see, when it was in UA, I thought it would work differently than most others in regards to agile parry, probably the main tradition feature of this class. I thought that when you make an unarmed strike in general during your turn, you get the +2 to AC (so at lvl 5 I thought it would be; Weapon strike + weapon Strike + unarmed bonus = +2 AC. let's call it "option 1") which was great. it showed that you are amazing with your weapon, able to attack and block all in one sweeping motion, giving you an edge over other weapon wielders and showing your mastery with the kinsei weapon. Coming from HEMA fencing, this makes sense as the core lessons is a strike and a block at the same time.
When xanathar's released though, it became very clear that it's really not what I thought it would be. with a lot more people seeing the class, it became general consensus that the way to use the main class feature they get is if you only use the weapon once, punching the rest of the time. (so, lets call it "option 2" lvl 5; Weapon strike + unarmed strike + unarmed strike = +2 AC) which is a little less amazing.
now, this makes me question why you would still take this tradition, at least thematically. if you spent so much time dedicating yourself to the blade and your weapon, why is it actively detrimental to you to use said weapon more than once? in order to use the class to it's full potential, your punching almost as much as an open hand monk, so why not just go open hand? heck, open hand monk can use a weapon more than once per turn and still use all their class abilities on a flurry, suffering no penalties when doing so.
I know it's really petty what i'm talking about (I'm talking about small bonuses, let's be real) but it's really making me question why even have this be a subclass when using option 2, especially for using the longsword or similar weapon. Why even have a longsword when I could just make a dagger a kinsei weapon and not even be phased by the loss of attack options, keeping being a "shielded monk" while just punching everything that moved?
It's still a fun class to play, and at 5th level Monks are doing 1d6 of damage with their unarmed attack. A +2 bonus to AC is huge in 5e! It's not minor by any stretch of the imagination!
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I am currently playing a Kensei in my online campaign, and I picked the subclass based on flavor and character idea alone, initially.
Now, Kensei, imho, is a subclass that changes with the growth in levels and the additional powers you get from the base Monk class.
From levels 3 and 4 you have an effective boost in damage both melee and ranged. You lose nothing and get to deal more damage (1d10+dex with a longsword, which you can use two handed and still do your bonus unharmed attach [nothing in any rule or official reply I have come across dispute this at least, also considering you could still wield the sword with two hands and throw a kick at your opponent), and you should already have an AC of at least 16, which is not too bad at level 3-4. If need be you can decide to forgo a round of additional damage for a +2 to AC, which is no little thing, as Tim said.
At level 5 things change drastically, as you get an additional attack which effectively allows you to do one weapon attack and one unharmed attack, now sacrificing less damage thanks to the 1d6 matial arts damage die, and potentially always having 18+ AC (following up the previous example, as high as 19 without magic items, considering Dex has been raised to at least 18 with ASI/Feat).
This combo remains valid and useful all the way up to at least lvl 17, when the martial arts dice changes to 1d10 and therefore meets the baseline damage of a longsword. Along the way, though, you get Deft Strike, which makes your weapon attacks more deadly, and that alone makes the use of at least one weapon attack still valid, as you could very well do weapon attack+martial arts damage (1 ki) - unarmed attack (+2 AC) - bonus action unharmed attack, dishing out a lot of damage for the same cost of a flurry of blows and getting a +2 AC; which is especially useful if you have, for example, advantage only to the first attack you perform (like from a Guiding Bolt), as this would allow you to deal the same damage as a Flurry of Blows but with less chance of missing one attack.
Sharpen the blade is quite situational, as you might have a bonus-granting magic weapon by the time you get to lvl 11, but it's nice if you find yourself suddenly separated from your personal weapon and find a normal version of it laying around to use while you look for your own.
Unerring Accuracy is just plain OP, basically always granting you a soft Advantage on your first weapon attack (which ties-in very well with Deft Strike).
To sum up: yes, until lvl 5 Agile Parry is quite situational, but that's the price to pay to then, from lvl 5, being able to virtually not have to move from in front of the enemy and still hardly being hit and dish out high damage each turn.
The Kensei is an "in-the-face" subclass for the monk, while other subclasses allow for more mobility, spell access, forms of auto-heal or ranged-focused attacks.
At least this is my view on it, aside from the fact that I just love the thematic :P
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Kensei is built so that you're not going to be using Patient Defense or Step of the Wind - you're going to be using Flurry of Blows or Stunning Strike for most of the game. Possibly at the same time.
Mephista, I think LeK is correct about getting the AC bonus.
Agile Parry.
So, until level 5, if you want the bonus AC you are only using your unarmed attack. Once you hit lvl 5, you'll be making 1 weapon attack and all the rest unarmed strikes to get the bonus AC. As or the rest of it, I think you are right that most Ki will be spent on Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike.
Bluebattlebuddy, to me, the Kensai makes sense. It has a devil's choice. Either the sub-class lets you use a d10 weapon (better then any other monk until lvl 17) for damage OR get +2 AC or you can get a small bonus to damage at Ranged, because you're not getting to Flurry.
Although any monk can deal 1d8 damage at first level with a quarterstaff or spear... so I really see the bonus AC as the main feature.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
They all have their schticks. You listed out the other path's schticks. The kensei can trade some damage for some defense or use a bow. Stylistically I view the kensei less as the katana-wielding sword master and more like a swordsman from a wuxia movie like Crouching Tiger or Hero. The samurai sword masters I've seen in media typically don't engage in as much unarmed combat, but the kensei is actively encouraged to use their sword to ward off their enemy's attacks and use punches and kicks. It's definitely meant to sacrifice some damage for some defense. If that's not what you want to do then any of the other paths using a spear or staff is probably more appealing.
@BlueBattleBuddy.
If you are really concerned about the ability thematically, then how about we re-word the rules :
"Steel Wall. If you pull at least one melee kensei weapon strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use it to defend yourself more effectively. Damage for the pulled attack is equal to your unarmed strike. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated."
The mechanics haven't changed*, but you are now using your sword fully once again.
Non thematically, the rules appears to be a game balance issue. I agree with FMB above, the option gives the monk the (devil's) choice - full attack and maybe get hit, or hold back a bit, and hopefully avoid getting hit. The monk is not a berserker (except when he is, of course). Boxers get hit, martial artists defend first, hit second. This is reflected in their unarmoured armour class.
Combat should be about meaningful choices - I think 5th Edition serves us pretty well in that regard.
If you don't like the rule on thematic grounds, then don't use the option. That is what healing potions are for, after all.
*The mechanics as I understand them; The monk player at our table disagrees with me.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
@Mephista.
I believe that the bonus action is separate from the attack action. (As noted above, our monk agrees with your interpretation.)
"When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn."
You (meaning all characters in general) can take an attack option without taking a bonus action, and you can take a bonus action taking an attack action. They are separate entities.
The wording above suggests (strongly) that the unarmed attack is taken as your bonus action rather than a bonus action. (Despite the first sentence muddying the waters slightly here.)
If it had read "As part of the attack option you may make one unarmed strike" then maybe I could agree.
Please don't set Mr. Bop on me!
Roleplaying since Runequest.
@LEK - my bad; I was stingy with magic items when D&D had a red cover, and 5th Edition has made me worse. (I like to think it has justified my DMing style)
Do weapons get a bonus to hit and damage? :)
Can anyone tell me when a monk WOULDN'T take a free unarmed strike as part of an attack option? (Fighting a grey ooze, maybe?)
I really like the Kensai - but then I don't see it as a monk with a sword.
Kensai rhymes with Renshai. Coincidence?
Roleplaying since Runequest.
"You want to run things that way, go for it."
True. And I will........Until someone persuades me their way is better (meaning more fun.)
Just because I disagree with your viewpoint does not mean I don't value it. Semantics aside, I prefer my way of reading the rules for the ablity - it gives a meaningful choice, sacrifice this to gain that - while you think the Kensai should be seen as a fluid swordsman, blade constantly in motion and not worrying unduly over defence as his 'flashing web of steel' sees to that. Your way is more economic at the table, no waiting on the monk to decide to lose a couple of points of damage to gain a couple of points of defence - If he is attacking, then he is harder to hit. Full stop. Combat is faster, and consequently probably more fun.
I like my way, but if I find it slows things down, or the monk is suffering because of it (compared with other classes or choices) then I will probably go with your reading of the situation.
Strategic battles are important to me, less so for others.
* * *
"You want to run things that way, go for it."
I'm not sure that works with the AL, hence the need for stimulating discussions. :)
Roleplaying since Runequest.
@mephista
I believe your way is how it's defiantly intended, though I may be biased about this approach (obviously). the two are intertwined, and until we have the official ruling then it's open to interpretation, choices between RAI and RAW. as written, the bonus action attack does not activate the AC bonus because, as described by others, it is a separate entity and therefor not part of the attack. As intended, the bonus action attack can be seen as an extension of said attack action, being unable to be used without the main action, and therefore it activates the AC bonus.
something like @The_Plundered_Tombs 's flavored description would have been a little better with how the actual class was written, and would have (probably) allowed for the weapon's effects to be better felt and use more of the kinsei's natural bonuses to said weapon. it does give an interesting idea, allows the kinsei to keep some bonuses without feeling wasted,and works around the problem of the bonus action.
Honestly, if I would have thought about this more in the days of the unearthed arcana, I would have suggested something like that, but I didn't know these forums existed to talk about said feedback. this is inspiring me to create some homebrew class based around a weapon master A la the homebrewed way of four elements, so I may work on that if this is really bugging me.
for now though, I do see the value of the devil's choice, but we already have something like that; patient defense. it costs a Ki point but it provides disadvantage on attacks at the cost of the bonus action. combined with agile parry it can give you even more defense, but that is costing a ki-point, and damage, a bigger choice.
I'm sure malapropisms are delightful but they have no place here, and you are being negligee is your defence by using one.
You can take an attack action without taking a bonus action (if you have already taken a bonus action you are specifically prohibited from taking a bonus action). You can take a bonus action with no need for an attack option. Separate. Occasionally connected. Hardly intertwined. Never an extension, although sometimes an addition.
"Second Wind
You have a limited well of stamina that you can draw on to protect yourself from harm. On your turn, you can use a bonus action to regain hit points equal to 1d10 + your fighter level. Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again."
No attack involved.
"
Flurry of Blows
Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action."
After the attack action. Not during, or at the end of, but after; separate.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
I actually think that "defiantly" is some weird-ass autocorrect of "definitely"... but I might be wrong...
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games