To sum up I think I would have much preferred if the Kensei Monk didn't have to choose a weapon to be Kensei (and everything else stays the same) or if everything you could do bare handed could be translated to your weapons ( flurry with melee, stunning strike at a range etc..)
This is my exact problem with Kensei. The weapon aspect of it seems clunky to me. I don't feel like a weapon master at all when playing this class. I don't think the class itself is bad, just that the abilities don't thematically match the monastic tradition.
The fact you have to choose a weapon makes it thematic. Read the description of the subclass, they aren't weapon masters, they are masters of a weapon. The weapons are extensions of themselves, so limiting that makes sense. And the fact that they can use any kensei weapon as a shield is amazing. Think of being able to use a whip to block attacks. What more could they have given kensei that wouldn't break the game?
Also after looking at the UA version of Kensei I see nothing there that wasn't changed for the better. (Besides adding the stipulation to sharpen the blade which was fair) the pommel hit was a garbage waste of a bonus action. And deft strike is by far better than precise strike. Agile parry is exactly the same so besides people misreading that it shouldn't have been a surprise.
I get that the flavor of the class is that it is a one weapon at a time type mastery, and I do agree that the changes from UA are for the better. I just feel that the increase to defense if you make an unarmed attack is weird to me. I do like the shield aspect ( much to the chagrin of my DM who cant hit me )... Some back ground - rolled for stats and my party found a magic ring of protection- so at lvl 3 my ac is 19-21 - I just feel that the amount of versatility that shadow monks, and elemental monks have, and the battlefield control that open hand monks have, kensei feels lacking - As I said I do not know what niche he is supposed to fill. Hard to hit but when he does, goes down quick, Not a heavy hitter but can hit a lot ( but why oh why unarmed? ).
I love my character - but I feel underwhelmed by the class from a story telling point. its not even about damage for me as my guy uses a knife. I just wanted in story and function for my guy to be a flurry of blades instead of punch punch punch AC+2. And as for the bow why is it a d4 instead of your martial arts die? - mostly rhetorical as I am voicing my frustrations.
I get that the flavor of the class is that it is a one weapon at a time type mastery, and I do agree that the changes from UA are for the better. I just feel that the increase to defense if you make an unarmed attack is weird to me. I do like the shield aspect ( much to the chagrin of my DM who cant hit me )... Some back ground - rolled for stats and my party found a magic ring of protection- so at lvl 3 my ac is 19-21 - I just feel that the amount of versatility that shadow monks, and elemental monks have, and the battlefield control that open hand monks have, kensei feels lacking - As I said I do not know what niche he is supposed to fill. Hard to hit but when he does, goes down quick, Not a heavy hitter but can hit a lot ( but why oh why unarmed? ).
I love my character - but I feel underwhelmed by the class from a story telling point. its not even about damage for me as my guy uses a knife. I just wanted in story and function for my guy to be a flurry of blades instead of punch punch punch AC+2. And as for the bow why is it a d4 instead of your martial arts die? - mostly rhetorical as I am voicing my frustrations.
if y Bow shouldnt be d4. Its martial arts unless the weapon default is higher. Longbow is d8. Unless you mean kensai shot, which honestly we homebrewed to match martial arts at higher levels, but I believe the theory is that if youre letting off attacks at range, the damage isnt as high because youre at a lower risk of retaliation - same scaling that makes melee 2 handers do more than 2 handed range.
The default martial arts feature of using your bonus action to make unarmed attacks still counts even if you make two weapon attacks, so you can stab a mofo, then flurry if you really want. Thats 2 weapon damage attacks and 2 unarmed at martial arts dmg, more attacks than other classes and a higher flat damage than other monks.
as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, you can also make a weapon attack, then an unarmed strike as part of your Attack action (giving you parry) then use your bonus action for martial arts or kensai shot. Higher damage than base monk, and higher AC.
I think a lot of emphasis gets placed on Agile Parry as a neccesity. Its not, its an option. Other monks dont have it and do alright. And theres always martial arts - dodge if things get really tricky.
For all it worths kensei should be a fighter subclass but it was using too many monk features or had too many restrictions that they decided to make it monk but couldn't balance the aspect of 'weapon master' without stepping on fighters area. As a result we got a half-proper option which works thematically at higher levels only.
I love my character - but I feel underwhelmed by the class from a story telling point. its not even about damage for me as my guy uses a knife. I just wanted in story and function for my guy to be a flurry of blades instead of punch punch punch AC+2. And as for the bow why is it a d4 instead of your martial arts die? - mostly rhetorical as I am voicing my frustrations.
You could dual wield daggers and go kick, dagger, dagger. If your looking thematic over number crunch.
For all it worths kensei should be a fighter subclass but it was using too many monk features or had too many restrictions that they decided to make it monk but couldn't balance the aspect of 'weapon master' without stepping on fighters area. As a result we got a half-proper option which works thematically at higher levels only.
You realize how OP a kensei would be if you put the sub class perks with the fighter base? You would get to wield a shield and if for one of your 4 attacks you NOT use a weapon you get another +2 ac.
For all it worths kensei should be a fighter subclass but it was using too many monk features or had too many restrictions that they decided to make it monk but couldn't balance the aspect of 'weapon master' without stepping on fighters area. As a result we got a half-proper option which works thematically at higher levels only.
Ummm? The whole point of the kensei was to make a weapon-focused monk class. Making it a Fighter literally removes the whole reason for its existence.
My DM and I worked out that instead of agile parry I get "Flurry of Blades" which since I am using a knife right now doesn't do much, but at a later level I can up my damage a bit instead of AC ( which is on par with a fighter using action surge and not using a heavy weapon ) and Kensei Shot uses martial arts die instead of d4. To me thematically and mechanically it feels like my character is more then a weapon wielding monk, but an expert in his chosen martial discipline.
I am playing a Kensei Monk and found it to be thematically weird that the bonus AC is when you attack with an unarmed strike. Also the Kensei Shot is just a bonus straight d4 per attack that doesn't scale. If thematically you are training with a weapon so much that it become part of yourself and you can channel your ki through it, wouldn't is make more sense that you could flurry of blows with your weapon instead of the added defense? or that your Kensei Shot does added Martial Arts damage die?
I play a Knife wielding Monk and find that other than the AC bonus it is no different from a regular monk. In fact if you are playing in a magical campaign and your DM grants players access to +3 weapons, the Kensei Monk ( doesn't suffer ) isn't unique from any other monk save for at level 6 one extra martial arts damage die on one attack.
I just don't know what niche this monk is supposed to fulfill. So far all I can see is that he is fast.
To sum up I think I would have much preferred if the Kensei Monk didn't have to choose a weapon to be Kensei (and everything else stays the same) or if everything you could do bare handed could be translated to your weapons ( flurry with melee, stunning strike at a range etc..)
The problem is you chose a Kensei monk, but are ignoring what makes a Kensei monk a Kensei monk.
Here's the description for the BASE Monk class:
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.
A dagger (Knife) is a simple melee weapon. When you reached level 3, you effectively did not choose a weapon that makes a Kensei a Kensei. It was already a monk weapon for you and choosing it again gave you very little compared to choosing another sub-class.
Here's the pertinent part of the Kensei monk:
Kensei Weapons.Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you.
That's a huge advantage that your knife wielding Kensei monk is not taking advantage of.
You can pick martial weapons as long as they're not heavy or special. (Battleaxe, Blowgun, Hand Crossbow, Flail, Longbow, Longsword, Morningstar, Rapier, Scimitar, Trident, War Pick, Warhammer and Whip)
You gain proficiency with those weapons, if you don't already have it.
Any weapon you pick can use Dexterity to calculate To-Hit and Damage
Kensei shot does not need to scale. It's a bonus action that does not cost Ki. You use it before you shoot and apply it to both your attack and extra attack. The longbow at low levels already does a lot of damage on top of it so you can essentially.
Bonus Action: Kensei Shot
Action: Attack w/ Kensei Shot (1d8+1d4), Extra Attack w/ Kensei Shot (1d8+1d4) spend Ki for Deft Strike (1d6) (Deft Strike is not a bonus action and only requires a hit).
Not to mention you would double the kensei shot and deft strike dice along with the longbow die if there was a crit, potentially giving you 3d8+3d4+2d6 from one turn.
When in melee you can basically choose to play it defensively or go full out offense or somewhere in between. If playing defensive the 2 AC is a big bonus for a small sacrifice in damage and when stacked with patient defense makes you very hard to hit while still dishing out some damage. If you go offensive then you still have the huge damage potential from Versatile weapon attacks, deft strike, and flurry of blows.
Or you could grab a whip, double attack and stun while staying out of range and throwing back whatever people shoot at you.
The problem is you chose a Kensei monk, but are ignoring what makes a Kensei monk a Kensei monk.
I think you're missing a few details and not really addressing the concern presented. It doesn't matter what weapon you pick when, by some readings of the rules, you only get one swing of the weapon per turn in order to get the Agile Parry bonus. Before level 5, you don't even get that much. Under this reading, you could be carrying a knife as easily as a long sword or a whip, and it won't change anything.
The fundamental problem that NoGnomeKnows stated was that (s)he didn't want to have a level three character that punched with their attack, then could only punch for the bonus action (or some other bonus action that didn't involve using the weapon), the only possible way to get the Agile Parry bonus . At level 5, you could finally make a single weapon attack, as opposed to 2~3 unarmed attacks.
Indeed, under the above only-one-weapon-attack-and-only-past-level-5 reading of the rules, melee weapon choice is pretty meaningless. The only differences between weapons are the damage die, the properties, and synergetic feats. Versatile increases damage die, Reach is generally meaningless when you're going to be making unarmed attacks anyways and unable to take advantage of the extra range, Light doesn't work with Martial Arts, Finesse is redundant, Heavy is banned, the only non-Heavy Two Handed weapon is inferior to the longsword, Thrown / Loading is too restrictive without magic items or a feat to let you attack more than once a turn with them. That leaves Versatile weapons as the most meaningful property, and that is just damage die increase, and even that becomes meaningless at high enough of a level. As for synergetic feats? Most of the ones designed for melee weapons either don't work with Martial Arts, or involve Heavy weapons. Polearm Mastery using a quarterstaff is the only melee weapon based feat that really works with the monk, and quarterstaff is already a monk weapon.
For ranged weapons, you get to add a series of ranged weapons to your options, but most of them have the loading property, which is generally incompatible with Extra Attack. That leaves longbow, maybe firearms if the DM allows it (unlikely) and the light/hand crossbows with the associated feat (heavy crossbow has Heavy property). Is it worth using the crossbow feat? Effectively gets rid of the loading property for crossbows only, can shoot into melee range without disadvantage, and bonus action attack with a hand crossbow. Kensei offers a bonus action damage boost already, you can easily switch to a melee weapon for better damage and AC. Its much easier to just use a longbow or short bow. And the longbow is really the same as a short bow with just a bit more damage and a bit more potential range. Its a superior weapon, yes, but the damage dice eventually goes away, and my personal experience is that most combats happen within shortbow range, bringing dubious benefits. No reason to not take the longbow, but not like its enough to differentiate kensei from any other monk.
So, under the way that NoGnomeKnows is reading the rules, the choice of weapons is really far more restrictive than you think. Now, I personally don't run things that way, and I fully believe that the subclass should have a line that says Kensei should be able to replace all mentions of unarmed attacks with kensei weapon attacks, which does make your melee weapon choice much more meaningful (not much you can do about loading and thrown weapons at the moment). But under other ways of running the class, the choice between a knife, a whip and a longsword as your kensei weapon can be pretty negligible.
And that's not just a mechanical perspective. Your choice of weapon does impact how your character feels, but when you're mainly doing unarmed attacks while merely holding a weapon, or still stuck with a bow for your ranged attacks, it doesn't feel like the character is acting that different from a regular monk.
The thing with Kensei monks is that when people see the +2ac they are looking at it like it should always be active. It shouldn't.. it's an defensive OPTION to an offensive monk subclass. It's made that way for balance and assumes you have a balanced party.
The DM Guide encourages DMs to alter the game and the rules to make it fun for their PCs. 5e rules are supposed to be easy to understand, change and use to create... so as long as the DM is ok with changing things just do it.
If you feel like the +2ac is necessary because you don't have any other front line fighters and you need to take up the tank roll. RP that your character has learned to always be in a defensive stance.
Agile Parry. If you are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated.
You hate punching and kicking that much? Add a weapon attack that does the exact same thing as unarmed strike.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can use your weapon to make one quick strike equal to your martial arts die as a bonus action.
Agile Parry. If you make an unarmed strike or quick strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated.
Flurry of the Kensei. When you use Flurry of Blows you may have one or both attacks become a quick strike.
Want to use a quarterstaff? Homebrew a Martial Weapon type called the Bo Staff and increase the damage die to match a longsword. Or make it a Nodashi and give it slashing. Or don't increase the damage die and give it reach without the heavy property to really make use of polearm master.
Finesse weapons open up the option of defensive duelist or sneak attack if you dip only 1 level into Rogue so if someone chooses to take them over a longsword it should be because they are planning to play to the strengths. People don't complain about not being effective with a dagger as a Paladin at least I hope they don't...
The thing with Kensei monks is that when people see the +2ac they are looking at it like it should always be active. It shouldn't.. it's an defensive OPTION to an offensive monk subclass. It's made that way for balance and assumes you have a balanced party.
As opposed to what? Ignoring it? Never using it? Why shouldn't it be a thing used from nearly every attack?
Here's the thing. Its an option, yes, because you might not be using a melee weapon. You get a very nice ranged bonus action ability as well. And that lovely archer option? Can be used every single round you use a ranged attack. Occasionally, sure, you might want to use a different ability, such as Step of the Wind or Patient Defense or the like. But, by and large, you'll be using Kensei's Shot for the majority of your turns.
Why should we consider Agile Parry to be different? Something to be active the majority of time in melee combat for a kensei?
Not going to lie though, playing a dagger wielding Kensei Monk was a weird direction to go. It makes the sacrifice of not using a weapon even less a sacrifice. Instead of a 1d10 to 1d4 from a longsword your going from a 1d6 to 1d4 with the dagger. ((obviously this is early levels. later levels it makes 0 sense to not constantly using Agile Parry when weilding a dagger.))
For what it's worth, playing my Level 10 Kensei on Monday night I was tanking a Skull Knight (a home brew, Skeleton with heaps better stats and smites, started at CR 5) that my DM increased the AC on to make it a little harder. I held it at bay by myself while the other three members of our party plus an NPC dealt with a Vampire. My damage rolls were doing better with my Unarmed Attacks than they were with my Longsword with a couple of my unarmed attacks rolling max damage. My DM gave us all a feat or ASI at level 1 and was also kind enough to let me have access to Bracers of Defense, as well as our cleric actually deciding to put Shield of Faith on me for once, so my AC was massive at 24 with Agile Parry.
I feel like my purpose as a Kensei is to pretty much go in and deal consistent low- to mid-level damage but not get hit back. A lot of the foes we're fighting in my campaign all have high stats as our DM takes higher level monsters and then impairs them somehow (he's new at DM'ing) so my stunning strike doesn't do much work.
I guess being the guy in the front and being the shield instead of the sword makes sense for the Kensei as far as roles go... it could also just be the campaign I am in isn't suited for that to much as my party is often surrounded, so a rock in a steam. Also my knife monk was more for his personal background as a hunter/poacher on a redemption arc - so his first weapons are dagger and longbow - next will be battle ax - I guess my complaints were more due to not feeling like a warrior monk when the Kensei shot uses a bonus action to deal extra damage that is supposed to be just a d4 this will be outclasses by any other archer quickly for free and agile parry is an unarmed attack action. As I am right now I feel like my character is just fast, hard to hit and not much else (but this is no different from any other monk at this level) .
It’s using your weapon as a shield if necessary. That’s the theme. If someone hits extra hard, hide behind your sword instead of attacking with it. Attack with your offhand as that allows you to use your weapon for its altered ability as a shield. Doing both would be cool, but may be unbalanced/broken. As a dm, I would allow it though.
I guess being the guy in the front and being the shield instead of the sword makes sense for the Kensei as far as roles go... it could also just be the campaign I am in isn't suited for that to much as my party is often surrounded, so a rock in a steam. Also my knife monk was more for his personal background as a hunter/poacher on a redemption arc - so his first weapons are dagger and longbow - next will be battle ax - I guess my complaints were more due to not feeling like a warrior monk when the Kensei shot uses a bonus action to deal extra damage that is supposed to be just a d4 this will be outclasses by any other archer quickly for free and agile parry is an unarmed attack action. As I am right now I feel like my character is just fast, hard to hit and not much else (but this is no different from any other monk at this level) .
Except for using a longbow. But for my character I usually find myself running into the wave of bad guys to give my ranged players some breathing space. It helps when you have mobile and can run the heck away if it turns bad.
Basically, bonus actions, like movement, happen whenever. A level 5 monk can run 10' up to someone, hit them, run another 10 over to another creature, hit them with their bonus action, move another 5', smack them with the last attack from Extra Attack. The only exception is if the ability specifically calls out timing. Flurry of Blows can only happen after the Attack Action completely ends, as per rules, so that doesn't work with the Kensei features (and I admit to being wrong about that, as I misread FoB and missed the "after" part). But everything else seems legit. The regular martial arts attack doesn't specify timing, so it can be used as part of the Attack.
This is a pretty clear cut issue I'm afraid.
Flurry of Blows
Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action.
The bonus action explicitly taking place after the attack action, and i totally agree with you its a confusing and odd choice (in the case of the AC bonus). That said its another tool for you to use.
The bonus action if you use Flurry of Blows is after your Attack Action. Using the bonus action attack from Martial Arts, however, has no such restriction. Nor do many other bonus action features. I made note of this in my post - unless the timing is specified by the bonus-action ability, it can happen anywhere. Flurry of Blows happens to be one of those that specifies the timing.
Martial arts and flurry of blows both specify that they happen after the attack action.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.
The bonus action attack is triggered by your attack action.
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The fact you have to choose a weapon makes it thematic. Read the description of the subclass, they aren't weapon masters, they are masters of a weapon. The weapons are extensions of themselves, so limiting that makes sense. And the fact that they can use any kensei weapon as a shield is amazing. Think of being able to use a whip to block attacks. What more could they have given kensei that wouldn't break the game?
Also after looking at the UA version of Kensei I see nothing there that wasn't changed for the better. (Besides adding the stipulation to sharpen the blade which was fair) the pommel hit was a garbage waste of a bonus action. And deft strike is by far better than precise strike. Agile parry is exactly the same so besides people misreading that it shouldn't have been a surprise.
I get that the flavor of the class is that it is a one weapon at a time type mastery, and I do agree that the changes from UA are for the better. I just feel that the increase to defense if you make an unarmed attack is weird to me. I do like the shield aspect ( much to the chagrin of my DM who cant hit me )... Some back ground - rolled for stats and my party found a magic ring of protection- so at lvl 3 my ac is 19-21 - I just feel that the amount of versatility that shadow monks, and elemental monks have, and the battlefield control that open hand monks have, kensei feels lacking - As I said I do not know what niche he is supposed to fill. Hard to hit but when he does, goes down quick, Not a heavy hitter but can hit a lot ( but why oh why unarmed? ).
I love my character - but I feel underwhelmed by the class from a story telling point. its not even about damage for me as my guy uses a knife. I just wanted in story and function for my guy to be a flurry of blades instead of punch punch punch AC+2. And as for the bow why is it a d4 instead of your martial arts die? - mostly rhetorical as I am voicing my frustrations.
if y
Bow shouldnt be d4. Its martial arts unless the weapon default is higher. Longbow is d8. Unless you mean kensai shot, which honestly we homebrewed to match martial arts at higher levels, but I believe the theory is that if youre letting off attacks at range, the damage isnt as high because youre at a lower risk of retaliation - same scaling that makes melee 2 handers do more than 2 handed range.
The default martial arts feature of using your bonus action to make unarmed attacks still counts even if you make two weapon attacks, so you can stab a mofo, then flurry if you really want. Thats 2 weapon damage attacks and 2 unarmed at martial arts dmg, more attacks than other classes and a higher flat damage than other monks.
as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, you can also make a weapon attack, then an unarmed strike as part of your Attack action (giving you parry) then use your bonus action for martial arts or kensai shot. Higher damage than base monk, and higher AC.
I think a lot of emphasis gets placed on Agile Parry as a neccesity. Its not, its an option. Other monks dont have it and do alright. And theres always martial arts - dodge if things get really tricky.
For all it worths kensei should be a fighter subclass but it was using too many monk features or had too many restrictions that they decided to make it monk but couldn't balance the aspect of 'weapon master' without stepping on fighters area. As a result we got a half-proper option which works thematically at higher levels only.
You could dual wield daggers and go kick, dagger, dagger. If your looking thematic over number crunch.
You realize how OP a kensei would be if you put the sub class perks with the fighter base? You would get to wield a shield and if for one of your 4 attacks you NOT use a weapon you get another +2 ac.
Ummm? The whole point of the kensei was to make a weapon-focused monk class. Making it a Fighter literally removes the whole reason for its existence.
My DM and I worked out that instead of agile parry I get "Flurry of Blades" which since I am using a knife right now doesn't do much, but at a later level I can up my damage a bit instead of AC ( which is on par with a fighter using action surge and not using a heavy weapon ) and Kensei Shot uses martial arts die instead of d4. To me thematically and mechanically it feels like my character is more then a weapon wielding monk, but an expert in his chosen martial discipline.
The problem is you chose a Kensei monk, but are ignoring what makes a Kensei monk a Kensei monk.
Here's the description for the BASE Monk class:
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
A dagger (Knife) is a simple melee weapon. When you reached level 3, you effectively did not choose a weapon that makes a Kensei a Kensei. It was already a monk weapon for you and choosing it again gave you very little compared to choosing another sub-class.
Here's the pertinent part of the Kensei monk:
Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you.
That's a huge advantage that your knife wielding Kensei monk is not taking advantage of.
Kensei gives you versatility and burst potential.
Kensei shot does not need to scale. It's a bonus action that does not cost Ki. You use it before you shoot and apply it to both your attack and extra attack. The longbow at low levels already does a lot of damage on top of it so you can essentially.
Bonus Action: Kensei Shot
Action: Attack w/ Kensei Shot (1d8+1d4), Extra Attack w/ Kensei Shot (1d8+1d4) spend Ki for Deft Strike (1d6) (Deft Strike is not a bonus action and only requires a hit).
Not to mention you would double the kensei shot and deft strike dice along with the longbow die if there was a crit, potentially giving you 3d8+3d4+2d6 from one turn.
When in melee you can basically choose to play it defensively or go full out offense or somewhere in between. If playing defensive the 2 AC is a big bonus for a small sacrifice in damage and when stacked with patient defense makes you very hard to hit while still dishing out some damage. If you go offensive then you still have the huge damage potential from Versatile weapon attacks, deft strike, and flurry of blows.
Or you could grab a whip, double attack and stun while staying out of range and throwing back whatever people shoot at you.
I think you're missing a few details and not really addressing the concern presented. It doesn't matter what weapon you pick when, by some readings of the rules, you only get one swing of the weapon per turn in order to get the Agile Parry bonus. Before level 5, you don't even get that much. Under this reading, you could be carrying a knife as easily as a long sword or a whip, and it won't change anything.
The fundamental problem that NoGnomeKnows stated was that (s)he didn't want to have a level three character that punched with their attack, then could only punch for the bonus action (or some other bonus action that didn't involve using the weapon), the only possible way to get the Agile Parry bonus . At level 5, you could finally make a single weapon attack, as opposed to 2~3 unarmed attacks.
Indeed, under the above only-one-weapon-attack-and-only-past-level-5 reading of the rules, melee weapon choice is pretty meaningless. The only differences between weapons are the damage die, the properties, and synergetic feats. Versatile increases damage die, Reach is generally meaningless when you're going to be making unarmed attacks anyways and unable to take advantage of the extra range, Light doesn't work with Martial Arts, Finesse is redundant, Heavy is banned, the only non-Heavy Two Handed weapon is inferior to the longsword, Thrown / Loading is too restrictive without magic items or a feat to let you attack more than once a turn with them. That leaves Versatile weapons as the most meaningful property, and that is just damage die increase, and even that becomes meaningless at high enough of a level. As for synergetic feats? Most of the ones designed for melee weapons either don't work with Martial Arts, or involve Heavy weapons. Polearm Mastery using a quarterstaff is the only melee weapon based feat that really works with the monk, and quarterstaff is already a monk weapon.
For ranged weapons, you get to add a series of ranged weapons to your options, but most of them have the loading property, which is generally incompatible with Extra Attack. That leaves longbow, maybe firearms if the DM allows it (unlikely) and the light/hand crossbows with the associated feat (heavy crossbow has Heavy property). Is it worth using the crossbow feat? Effectively gets rid of the loading property for crossbows only, can shoot into melee range without disadvantage, and bonus action attack with a hand crossbow. Kensei offers a bonus action damage boost already, you can easily switch to a melee weapon for better damage and AC. Its much easier to just use a longbow or short bow. And the longbow is really the same as a short bow with just a bit more damage and a bit more potential range. Its a superior weapon, yes, but the damage dice eventually goes away, and my personal experience is that most combats happen within shortbow range, bringing dubious benefits. No reason to not take the longbow, but not like its enough to differentiate kensei from any other monk.
So, under the way that NoGnomeKnows is reading the rules, the choice of weapons is really far more restrictive than you think. Now, I personally don't run things that way, and I fully believe that the subclass should have a line that says Kensei should be able to replace all mentions of unarmed attacks with kensei weapon attacks, which does make your melee weapon choice much more meaningful (not much you can do about loading and thrown weapons at the moment). But under other ways of running the class, the choice between a knife, a whip and a longsword as your kensei weapon can be pretty negligible.
And that's not just a mechanical perspective. Your choice of weapon does impact how your character feels, but when you're mainly doing unarmed attacks while merely holding a weapon, or still stuck with a bow for your ranged attacks, it doesn't feel like the character is acting that different from a regular monk.
The thing with Kensei monks is that when people see the +2ac they are looking at it like it should always be active. It shouldn't.. it's an defensive OPTION to an offensive monk subclass. It's made that way for balance and assumes you have a balanced party.
The DM Guide encourages DMs to alter the game and the rules to make it fun for their PCs. 5e rules are supposed to be easy to understand, change and use to create... so as long as the DM is ok with changing things just do it.
If you feel like the +2ac is necessary because you don't have any other front line fighters and you need to take up the tank roll. RP that your character has learned to always be in a defensive stance.
Agile Parry. If you are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated.
You hate punching and kicking that much? Add a weapon attack that does the exact same thing as unarmed strike.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can use your weapon to make one quick strike equal to your martial arts die as a bonus action.
Agile Parry. If you make an unarmed strike or quick strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated.
Flurry of the Kensei. When you use Flurry of Blows you may have one or both attacks become a quick strike.
Want to use a quarterstaff? Homebrew a Martial Weapon type called the Bo Staff and increase the damage die to match a longsword. Or make it a Nodashi and give it slashing. Or don't increase the damage die and give it reach without the heavy property to really make use of polearm master.
Finesse weapons open up the option of defensive duelist or sneak attack if you dip only 1 level into Rogue so if someone chooses to take them over a longsword it should be because they are planning to play to the strengths. People don't complain about not being effective with a dagger as a Paladin at least I hope they don't...
As opposed to what? Ignoring it? Never using it? Why shouldn't it be a thing used from nearly every attack?
Here's the thing. Its an option, yes, because you might not be using a melee weapon. You get a very nice ranged bonus action ability as well. And that lovely archer option? Can be used every single round you use a ranged attack. Occasionally, sure, you might want to use a different ability, such as Step of the Wind or Patient Defense or the like. But, by and large, you'll be using Kensei's Shot for the majority of your turns.
Why should we consider Agile Parry to be different? Something to be active the majority of time in melee combat for a kensei?
Not going to lie though, playing a dagger wielding Kensei Monk was a weird direction to go. It makes the sacrifice of not using a weapon even less a sacrifice. Instead of a 1d10 to 1d4 from a longsword your going from a 1d6 to 1d4 with the dagger. ((obviously this is early levels. later levels it makes 0 sense to not constantly using Agile Parry when weilding a dagger.))
For what it's worth, playing my Level 10 Kensei on Monday night I was tanking a Skull Knight (a home brew, Skeleton with heaps better stats and smites, started at CR 5) that my DM increased the AC on to make it a little harder. I held it at bay by myself while the other three members of our party plus an NPC dealt with a Vampire. My damage rolls were doing better with my Unarmed Attacks than they were with my Longsword with a couple of my unarmed attacks rolling max damage. My DM gave us all a feat or ASI at level 1 and was also kind enough to let me have access to Bracers of Defense, as well as our cleric actually deciding to put Shield of Faith on me for once, so my AC was massive at 24 with Agile Parry.
I feel like my purpose as a Kensei is to pretty much go in and deal consistent low- to mid-level damage but not get hit back. A lot of the foes we're fighting in my campaign all have high stats as our DM takes higher level monsters and then impairs them somehow (he's new at DM'ing) so my stunning strike doesn't do much work.
I guess being the guy in the front and being the shield instead of the sword makes sense for the Kensei as far as roles go... it could also just be the campaign I am in isn't suited for that to much as my party is often surrounded, so a rock in a steam. Also my knife monk was more for his personal background as a hunter/poacher on a redemption arc - so his first weapons are dagger and longbow - next will be battle ax - I guess my complaints were more due to not feeling like a warrior monk when the Kensei shot uses a bonus action to deal extra damage that is supposed to be just a d4 this will be outclasses by any other archer quickly for free and agile parry is an unarmed attack action. As I am right now I feel like my character is just fast, hard to hit and not much else (but this is no different from any other monk at this level) .
It’s using your weapon as a shield if necessary. That’s the theme. If someone hits extra hard, hide behind your sword instead of attacking with it. Attack with your offhand as that allows you to use your weapon for its altered ability as a shield. Doing both would be cool, but may be unbalanced/broken. As a dm, I would allow it though.
Except for using a longbow. But for my character I usually find myself running into the wave of bad guys to give my ranged players some breathing space. It helps when you have mobile and can run the heck away if it turns bad.
This is a pretty clear cut issue I'm afraid.
The bonus action explicitly taking place after the attack action, and i totally agree with you its a confusing and odd choice (in the case of the AC bonus). That said its another tool for you to use.
The bonus action if you use Flurry of Blows is after your Attack Action. Using the bonus action attack from Martial Arts, however, has no such restriction. Nor do many other bonus action features. I made note of this in my post - unless the timing is specified by the bonus-action ability, it can happen anywhere. Flurry of Blows happens to be one of those that specifies the timing.
Martial arts and flurry of blows both specify that they happen after the attack action.
The bonus action attack is triggered by your attack action.