I think they refer to them as Kensei or monk weapons because they intend them to be different. If you hit with a Kensei weapon, you can use a bonus action to add an extra d4 of damage. If those count as monk weapons, why would you do that instead of making an unarmed strike, which would do much more damage AND let you do two attacks with a stronger weapon and still get the AC bonus for using unarmed strike.
Also, Jeremy Crawford has answered that they are not the same. A GM can rule however they want in their game, of course, but the official rule is that they are different.
When it comes to Mike Mearls' comments, they should always be read as one DM telling you how they'd handle things at their own table, and nothing more (as he has said exactly that himself in the past - but doesn't remind folks very often).
Jeremy Crawford, however, is the guy in charge of providing insight into what the intended interpretation is meant to be, or what the official "by the book" stance is.
So if the two have both commented on a subject and provided differing opinions, you have to keep in mind what weight they have given their own opinions when deciding on your own opinion (by which I mean to say go ahead and do whatever you want, whether it is to agree with Mearls, Crawford, or neither - just don't let yourself be tricked into thinking the "official" stance matches to yours if it doesn't).
I know I am over a year late on this but I am rolling up my first Kensei monk and I don't understand this reply.
The description of Kensei weapons states: Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you. Many of this tradition’s features work only with your kensei weapons. When you reach 6th, 11th, and 17th level in this class, you can choose another type of weapon — either melee or ranged — to be a kensei weapon for you, following the criteria above.
So I read this as all Kensei weapons are Monk Weapons but not all Monk weapons count as Kensei weapons for the purpose of the Path weapon benefits. This is inline with Jeremy Crawford statement that they are different as well.
I know I am over a year late on this but I am rolling up my first Kensei monk and I don't understand this reply.
The description of Kensei weapons states: Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you. Many of this tradition’s features work only with your kensei weapons. When you reach 6th, 11th, and 17th level in this class, you can choose another type of weapon — either melee or ranged — to be a kensei weapon for you, following the criteria above.
So I read this as all Kensei weapons are Monk Weapons but not all Monk weapons count as Kensei weapons for the purpose of the Path weapon benefits. This is inline with Jeremy Crawford statement that they are different as well.
That is indeed the intention. It is more or less the equivalent of a bond weapon for an Eldritch Knight or a BladeLock in terms of subclass features use.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Can you use Agile Parry as an AC bonus against ranged weapons?
Additionally ... Just how big and heavy does a melee weapon or monster paw get before we decide Agile Parry isn't applicable? I can see arguments on both sides for both of these views and was curious what others thought.
Can you use Agile Parry as an AC bonus against ranged weapons?
Additionally ... Just how big and heavy does a melee weapon or monster paw get before we decide Agile Parry isn't applicable? I can see arguments on both sides for both of these views and was curious what others thought.
Agile parry is a flat +2 AC bonus deriving from using your weapon defensively instead of offensively.
I do not see why it should not apply against ranged attacks.
Your second question is a bit abscure to me... Could you clarify? Seems to me that you consider Agile Parry to possibly have some limitation on relation to the incoming attack, but again, it is a flat +2 AC, and applies to everything. To give you an example, watch the first fight between Guts and Griffith in Berserk: Griffith, even with a way narrower and smaller blade is able to keep Guts at bay, not by blocking but by deflecting/rederecting his mighty blows. That's something a Kensei could perfectly do.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Can you use Agile Parry as an AC bonus against ranged weapons?
Additionally ... Just how big and heavy does a melee weapon or monster paw get before we decide Agile Parry isn't applicable? I can see arguments on both sides for both of these views and was curious what others thought.
Well, considering you can't have anything with the heavy property as a Kensei weapon, that's probably a non-issue
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Giant flaming rocks filled with tarrasques fall, everyone dies.
Can you use Agile Parry as an AC bonus against ranged weapons?
Additionally ... Just how big and heavy does a melee weapon or monster paw get before we decide Agile Parry isn't applicable? I can see arguments on both sides for both of these views and was curious what others thought.
You could take the attack action and make an attack with your longbow (monk weapon if you chose it) then use flurry of blows to make two unarmed attacks if you are within 5 feet of a target the attack from the longbow would have disadvantage, but the unarmed attacks from the flurry of blows would not. (however, the kensei shot ability would just add 1d4 to each longbow shot if you choose to do that, this does not cost Ki, but uses your bonus action, this applies to both attacks after level 5 with a ranged kensei weapon). If you are farther away, you could make your ranged attack then move closer to the target if you have the movement then make a flurry of blows if you wanted to, costing a ki point.
The longbow as your kensei weapon would eventually be 1d10 damage, but that wouldn't happen til level 17. The 1d4 from Kensei Shot never changes.
Flurry of blows just specifies you take the attack action, it does not specify the type of attack. The attack with your bonus action from Martial Arts specifies unarmed attack or monk weapon and your Kensei weapons are considered monk weapons, ranged or melee.
If longbow counts as monk weapon.... yoU can flurry with it? Also use the martial arts die with it?
You do use your Martial Arts die with it, but flurry of blows specifically says unarmed attacks, so even Monk weapons do not count
Flurry of blows specifies the attack action, not unarmed only. Martial Arts specifies unarmed attack or monk weapon on the attack action, kensei weapons are monk weapons for the Way of the Kensei so they can use their longsword or longbow (or whatever chosen weapons) then make a flurry of blows or bonus action unarmed attack.
Flurry of blows just specifies you take the attack action, it does not specify the type of attack. The attack with your bonus action from Martial Arts specifies unarmed attack or monk weapon and your Kensei weapons are considered monk weapons, ranged or melee.
If longbow counts as monk weapon.... yoU can flurry with it? Also use the martial arts die with it?
You do use your Martial Arts die with it, but flurry of blows specifically says unarmed attacks, so even Monk weapons do not count
Flurry of blows specifies the attack action, not unarmed only. Martial Arts specifies unarmed attack or monk weapon on the attack action, kensei weapons are monk weapons for the Way of the Kensei so they can use their longsword or longbow (or whatever chosen weapons) then make a flurry of blows or bonus action unarmed attack.
But it does specify unarmed only. "Flurry of Blows - Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action."
Flurry of blows just specifies you take the attack action, it does not specify the type of attack. The attack with your bonus action from Martial Arts specifies unarmed attack or monk weapon and your Kensei weapons are considered monk weapons, ranged or melee.
If longbow counts as monk weapon.... yoU can flurry with it? Also use the martial arts die with it?
You do use your Martial Arts die with it, but flurry of blows specifically says unarmed attacks, so even Monk weapons do not count
Flurry of blows specifies the attack action, not unarmed only. Martial Arts specifies unarmed attack or monk weapon on the attack action, kensei weapons are monk weapons for the Way of the Kensei so they can use their longsword or longbow (or whatever chosen weapons) then make a flurry of blows or bonus action unarmed attack.
But it does specify unarmed only. "Flurry of Blows - Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action."
That is what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear, and thank you Emmote for clarifying.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I know it is a well discussed subject amongst Monk players, but I was just wondering what eveyone's thoughts were on this subject.
I, personally, would say that they count as regular Monk weapons beacause:
So you are telling me that a giant monkey can beat the KING OF MONSTERS!? Do you want me to hate you?
Yes after all, it says that you can choose whether apply the martial arts dice or not.
That is why they made that an ability. To allow you to make any Weapon a Monk Weapon.
I think they refer to them as Kensei or monk weapons because they intend them to be different. If you hit with a Kensei weapon, you can use a bonus action to add an extra d4 of damage. If those count as monk weapons, why would you do that instead of making an unarmed strike, which would do much more damage AND let you do two attacks with a stronger weapon and still get the AC bonus for using unarmed strike.
Also, Jeremy Crawford has answered that they are not the same. A GM can rule however they want in their game, of course, but the official rule is that they are different.
Mike Mearls himself said it should be allowed though: https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/808904018265341952
When it comes to Mike Mearls' comments, they should always be read as one DM telling you how they'd handle things at their own table, and nothing more (as he has said exactly that himself in the past - but doesn't remind folks very often).
Jeremy Crawford, however, is the guy in charge of providing insight into what the intended interpretation is meant to be, or what the official "by the book" stance is.
So if the two have both commented on a subject and provided differing opinions, you have to keep in mind what weight they have given their own opinions when deciding on your own opinion (by which I mean to say go ahead and do whatever you want, whether it is to agree with Mearls, Crawford, or neither - just don't let yourself be tricked into thinking the "official" stance matches to yours if it doesn't).
I know I am over a year late on this but I am rolling up my first Kensei monk and I don't understand this reply.
The description of Kensei weapons states:
Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you. Many of this tradition’s features work only with your kensei weapons. When you reach 6th, 11th, and 17th level in this class, you can choose another type of weapon — either melee or ranged — to be a kensei weapon for you, following the criteria above.
So I read this as all Kensei weapons are Monk Weapons but not all Monk weapons count as Kensei weapons for the purpose of the Path weapon benefits. This is inline with Jeremy Crawford statement that they are different as well.
That is indeed the intention. It is more or less the equivalent of a bond weapon for an Eldritch Knight or a BladeLock in terms of subclass features use.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
It can only be so debatable when it literally says they are monk weapons
Giant flaming rocks filled with tarrasques fall, everyone dies.
Different but related ....
Can you use Agile Parry as an AC bonus against ranged weapons?
Additionally ... Just how big and heavy does a melee weapon or monster paw get before we decide Agile Parry isn't applicable? I can see arguments on both sides for both of these views and was curious what others thought.
Agile parry is a flat +2 AC bonus deriving from using your weapon defensively instead of offensively.
I do not see why it should not apply against ranged attacks.
Your second question is a bit abscure to me... Could you clarify? Seems to me that you consider Agile Parry to possibly have some limitation on relation to the incoming attack, but again, it is a flat +2 AC, and applies to everything. To give you an example, watch the first fight between Guts and Griffith in Berserk: Griffith, even with a way narrower and smaller blade is able to keep Guts at bay, not by blocking but by deflecting/rederecting his mighty blows. That's something a Kensei could perfectly do.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Well, considering you can't have anything with the heavy property as a Kensei weapon, that's probably a non-issue
Giant flaming rocks filled with tarrasques fall, everyone dies.
I... don't think you understand how AC works...
If longbow counts as monk weapon.... yoU can flurry with it? Also use the martial arts die with it?
You do use your Martial Arts die with it, but flurry of blows specifically says unarmed attacks, so even Monk weapons do not count
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
You could take the attack action and make an attack with your longbow (monk weapon if you chose it) then use flurry of blows to make two unarmed attacks if you are within 5 feet of a target the attack from the longbow would have disadvantage, but the unarmed attacks from the flurry of blows would not. (however, the kensei shot ability would just add 1d4 to each longbow shot if you choose to do that, this does not cost Ki, but uses your bonus action, this applies to both attacks after level 5 with a ranged kensei weapon). If you are farther away, you could make your ranged attack then move closer to the target if you have the movement then make a flurry of blows if you wanted to, costing a ki point.
The longbow as your kensei weapon would eventually be 1d10 damage, but that wouldn't happen til level 17. The 1d4 from Kensei Shot never changes.
Flurry of blows just specifies you take the attack action, it does not specify the type of attack. The attack with your bonus action from Martial Arts specifies unarmed attack or monk weapon and your Kensei weapons are considered monk weapons, ranged or melee.
Flurry of blows specifies the attack action, not unarmed only. Martial Arts specifies unarmed attack or monk weapon on the attack action, kensei weapons are monk weapons for the Way of the Kensei so they can use their longsword or longbow (or whatever chosen weapons) then make a flurry of blows or bonus action unarmed attack.
But it does specify unarmed only.
"Flurry of Blows - Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action."
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
That is what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear, and thank you Emmote for clarifying.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I love this thread. It is the quintessential dnd rules conversation. How something can be written one way and read in different ways.
Also love how 9% voted no.