Deflect Attacks in Response to Multiple Damage Type Attacks

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So did we come to any kind of conclusion on the point of which type of damage gets deflected first?  The BPS or the energy damage?

If a Monk is hit with a weapon that deals Piercing damage and Fire damage, when he uses his Deflect Attacks ability, which damage is reduced first?

Does the DM choose?

Does the Player choose?

Do you do it in reverse order from how it's listed in the attack?  Ex:  If the attack says deals 1d6 Piercing damage and 1d6 Fire damage, do you reduce the Fire damage first and then the Piercing?

 

To add yet another puzzle that I don't think has been answered yet...If you reduce all of the Piercing and all of the Fire damage, when you redirect the damage back how do you determine how much damage is of what type.  Since when you redirect it is has the same damage type as the attack.

 I personally argued when the 2024 PHB came out that the ability only deflects BPS, and the ability to deflect the other types weren't until Level 13. But it was a losing argument because they referred to the clause "it's damage includes BPS". Presuming that the word, "includes", means other damage in addition to. I don't know if all DM's prescribe to that, or if they come here to find out what the answer is.  The description also doesn't mention if it is multiple damage types, what damage is reduced first in either description. Presumably things like Conditions, immunities/resistances/vulnerabilities are something the DM has to figure out.

Perhaps the smart thing is to make sure the Monk never has to face an enemy that uses duel damage type attacks?

 You would have to either modify a lot of monsters stat blocks or outright ban Monks from some adventure modules to make sure that they never face mixed damages. That's a pretty drastic fix for a minor problem that can be solved with a simple DM ruling. Just have your DM/table talk about it and make a choice on how to handle it. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

 If everything only took a DM ruling, then there would be no need for this or any thread.  That would be the answer for everything. 

 But. That is the answer for everything 🤷‍♂️ And it has been, implicitly, since the game’s inception. And explicitly since 5e’s stated design philosophy of “rulings, not rules.”

 There are rules for a reason. I invite you to read WoTC's formal response to the question:

Why even have Sage Advice when a DM can just make a ruling?

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/sae/sage-advice-compendium#TheRoleOfRules

For sanity, I hope it's safe to say that this secondary question of which damage is reduced first is much less impactful than the original question of whether it applies to all damage types in an attack, yes? Like mixed damage happens itself only happens some of the time, and from that only some of the time would the damage amount exceed Deflect Attacks (which can get quite potent quickly), and of course even then you'd have to actually have the requisite resistance(s). And out of that subset, the remaining damage to be reduced or not may not be that large? So this is somewhat low stakes at this point, compared to the OP, right?

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For sanity, I hope it's safe to say that this secondary question of which damage is reduced first is much less impactful than the original question of whether it applies to all damage types in an attack, yes? Like mixed damage happens itself only happens some of the time, and from that only some of the time would the damage amount exceed Deflect Attacks (which can get quite potent quickly), and of course even then you'd have to actually have the requisite resistance(s). And out of that subset, the remaining damage to be reduced or not may not be that large? So this is somewhat low stakes at this point, compared to the OP, right?

It is safe to say situations where it matters at all which damage type gets reduced first are pretty rare, even accounting for the fact that multi-type attacks are already pretty rare. This is likely why the designers did not bother to define how it should work explicitly.

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For sanity, I hope it's safe to say that this secondary question of which damage is reduced first is much less impactful than the original question of whether it applies to all damage types in an attack, yes? Like mixed damage happens itself only happens some of the time, and from that only some of the time would the damage amount exceed Deflect Attacks (which can get quite potent quickly), and of course even then you'd have to actually have the requisite resistance(s). And out of that subset, the remaining damage to be reduced or not may not be that large? So this is somewhat low stakes at this point, compared to the OP, right?

Well like I said on a previous thread, before being bullied to concede:  I don't believe Deflect Attacks effect any energy at all, because that is why Deflect Energy exists.  If you can deflect Energy as a rider at 3rd level, then what's the point of only deflecting it as a single attack at 13th level? There is none. You are basically saying, well you can deflect energy as long as BPS is involve, then 10 levels later you can just deflect Energy by itself.  Wow. Really? I have to wait 10 more levels to earn the other 50% of the ability I can do right now?

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For sanity, I hope it's safe to say that this secondary question of which damage is reduced first is much less impactful than the original question of whether it applies to all damage types in an attack, yes? Like mixed damage happens itself only happens some of the time, and from that only some of the time would the damage amount exceed Deflect Attacks (which can get quite potent quickly), and of course even then you'd have to actually have the requisite resistance(s). And out of that subset, the remaining damage to be reduced or not may not be that large? So this is somewhat low stakes at this point, compared to the OP, right?

 

Well like I said on a previous thread, before being bullied to concede:  I don't believe Deflect Attacks effect any energy at all, because that is why Deflect Energy exists.  If you can deflect Energy as a rider at 3rd level, then what's the point of only deflecting it as a single attack at 13th level? There is none. You are basically saying, well you can deflect energy as long as BPS is involve, then 10 levels later you can just deflect Energy by itself.  Wow. Really? I have to wait 10 more levels to earn the other 50% of the ability I can do right now?

 In order for Deflect Attack to be used, the incoming damage must include (at least in part) Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing Damage. It would be useless against a Shocking Grasp, as that is purely Lightning damage. There is no rule that states that it only applies to the Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing part of the damage, in fact the rule clearly states "When an attack roll hits you and its damage includes Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, you can take a Reaction to reduce the attack's total damage against you." I added the underlining of the important bits, and this is the exact quote at both DnDBeyond AND the hardcopy of the PHB.

Deflect Energy at 13th level removes the condition that the incoming damage must include at least some Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing Damage meaning the Deflect ability now works on just about any type of incoming damage from an attack roll.

The lower level Deflect Attack doesn't protect if the incoming damage is purely energy. At 13th level it does.

As for the 'which damage first' question, the easiest way to do it is simply say it is in the order that it is listed in the attack. If the statblock says 1d8 Slashing + 2d6 Poison, then it is applied to the Slashing first, with any left over going towards the Poison. There is no rule on this, so how you do it is up to you, but I think this method makes the most sense.

For the question of resistances, first you apply all numerical additions/subtractions, then you apply Resistance, then you apply Vulnerability (this is RAW).

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For sanity, I hope it's safe to say that this secondary question of which damage is reduced first is much less impactful than the original question of whether it applies to all damage types in an attack, yes? Like mixed damage happens itself only happens some of the time, and from that only some of the time would the damage amount exceed Deflect Attacks (which can get quite potent quickly), and of course even then you'd have to actually have the requisite resistance(s). And out of that subset, the remaining damage to be reduced or not may not be that large? So this is somewhat low stakes at this point, compared to the OP, right?

 

Well like I said on a previous thread, before being bullied to concede:  I don't believe Deflect Attacks effect any energy at all, because that is why Deflect Energy exists.  If you can deflect Energy as a rider at 3rd level, then what's the point of only deflecting it as a single attack at 13th level? There is none. You are basically saying, well you can deflect energy as long as BPS is involve, then 10 levels later you can just deflect Energy by itself.  Wow. Really? I have to wait 10 more levels to earn the other 50% of the ability I can do right now?

Attacks that include both kinds of damage are fairly rare at low levels, so being able to use Deflect Attacks on them doesn't make a whole lot of difference in practice. At higher levels, attacks that only deal non-physical damage are much more common, so Deflect Energy becomes a significant upgrade.

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For sanity, I hope it's safe to say that this secondary question of which damage is reduced first is much less impactful than the original question of whether it applies to all damage types in an attack, yes? Like mixed damage happens itself only happens some of the time, and from that only some of the time would the damage amount exceed Deflect Attacks (which can get quite potent quickly), and of course even then you'd have to actually have the requisite resistance(s). And out of that subset, the remaining damage to be reduced or not may not be that large? So this is somewhat low stakes at this point, compared to the OP, right?

 

Well like I said on a previous thread, before being bullied to concede:  I don't believe Deflect Attacks effect any energy at all, because that is why Deflect Energy exists.  If you can deflect Energy as a rider at 3rd level, then what's the point of only deflecting it as a single attack at 13th level? There is none. You are basically saying, well you can deflect energy as long as BPS is involve, then 10 levels later you can just deflect Energy by itself.  Wow. Really? I have to wait 10 more levels to earn the other 50% of the ability I can do right now?

 In order for Deflect Attack to be used, the incoming damage must include (at least in part) Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing Damage. It would be useless against a Shocking Grasp, as that is purely Lightning damage. There is no rule that states that it only applies to the Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing part of the damage, in fact the rule clearly states "When an attack roll hits you and its damage includes Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, you can take a Reaction to reduce the attack's total damage against you." I added the underlining of the important bits, and this is the exact quote at both DnDBeyond AND the hardcopy of the PHB.

Deflect Energy at 13th level removes the condition that the incoming damage must include at least some Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing Damage meaning the Deflect ability now works on just about any type of incoming damage from an attack roll.

The lower level Deflect Attack doesn't protect if the incoming damage is purely energy. At 13th level it does.

As for the 'which damage first' question, the easiest way to do it is simply say it is in the order that it is listed in the attack. If the statblock says 1d8 Slashing + 2d6 Poison, then it is applied to the Slashing first, with any left over going towards the Poison. There is no rule on this, so how you do it is up to you, but I think this method makes the most sense.

For the question of resistances, first you apply all numerical additions/subtractions, then you apply Resistance, then you apply Vulnerability (this is RAW).

 I rewatched Crawford's interviews about the rationale for revising monks Deflect Attacks and he said the languange was changed because there were arguments/complexities at the table on questions bout weapon's properties etc and if the attack could actually be reflected. So I am going back to my original stance, that the 3rd level  DA only reflects physical (BPS) attacks.  Language now used is to defeat rules lawyering that apparently haunted other campaigns. So that Flamming sword's physical damage gets deflected but not the fire.

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 I rewatched Crawford's interviews about the rationale for revising monks Deflect Attacks and he said the languange was changed because there were arguments/complexities at the table on questions bout weapon's properties etc and if the attack could actually be reflected. So I am going back to my original stance, that the 3rd level  DA only reflects physical (BPS) attacks.  Language now used is to defeat rules lawyering that apparently haunted other campaigns. So that Flamming sword's physical damage gets deflected but not the fire.

If you think that's how it's intended to be interpreted, why do you suppose they used the phrase "reduce the attack's total damage against you", rather than something like "reduce the attack's bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage against you"?

What happens if a Monk Reduces a Venom fuller attack Piercing Damage to 0.  Does he still take the Venom damage?

What happens if a Monk Reduces a Poison Coated Attack Piercing Damage to 0.  Does he still take the Poison damage?

I used Venom and Poison due to one being Injected and one being touched.

The description of poison states that if the target takes damage from the attack, it takes additional poison damage. The target (monk) is taking damage, they are just reducing how much. Even if reduced to zero, the poison still applies (and can also be reduced).