If you wanted to use a naginata or something similar you could reskin a spear to remain within rules as written. That said, I think the limit of heavy and special properties is a bit silly, at least for the kensei now that every monk can use a longsword or something similar.
Other monks still require getting proficiency for that longsword or similar from to come from somewhere besides the monk class. Something that the Kensei does not have to do. And the Kensei can do it with more weapons at one time than a regular monk can do.
Have you heard of a naginata? It’s the Japanese version of a glaive and I just checked and it counts as a monk weapon
What do you mean by saying you checked and it counts. The Glaive (reskinned as naginata) has the heavy property so does not work with dedicated weapon or a kensei weapon. Glaive cannot be a monk weapon even if you have proficiency
You should ask your DM to switch short sword for whip as a monk weapon for you. That’s not OP at all, and fits with the swappable proficiency builds in Tasha’s.
Since only having proficiency with a weapon does not make it count as a monk weapon (you would be proficient with the Sun Blade, but since it's still a longsword, it is not a monk weapon), you'd need to use either the Dedicated Weapon feature or have longswords as 1 of your kensei weapons type.
You wouldn't want to use the Sun Blade as a monk weapon by default anyway even if a DM did allow you to consider it one just because of Short Sword proficiency.
The Problem with the Sun Blade Specifically is in how it's details are written. It's proficiency to attack is only if you have long sword proficiency and thus are using it as a long sword basically. Which means it's actually taking a (potentially big) penalty to all attack rolls to use it for a very small boost in damage. That's basically counter productive and not worth the trade off. So a monk would only want to use it as a desperate last attempt or under conditions where they can use it as a long sword such as by a Kensei or with proficiency and dedicated weapon.
"Proficiency with a longsword allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with it."
I'm pretty sure that's just copied over from the basic longsword. Every normal weapon has those exact words in the description, it's not saying that using shortsword proficiency doesn't add your bonus.
Historically the Shaolin monks are Buddhist monks who live in seclusion to find enlightenment, but due to bandits coming to steal their crops like those in the village, they began to train with work tools and not real weapons. I guess that is where the limitation of monks in the use of weapons comes from.
If you want to imagine your monk with a Glaive or a Halberd, that's fine, but the properties always remain those of the Quarterstaff.
I guess what most people care about most is the huge advantage that the "Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter" feats offer. I must say that I was a bit disappointed when I discovered that dart are not monk weapons. I found that these talents destroy the balance of the game. Great weapon master also has the of him because even if combined with reckless attack he is an abomination, but sharpshooter I find it a bit exaggerated. The range advantage and Archery's bonus should be forbidden to warriors.
I once pictured myself as a level 20 brute fighters with two hand Crossbow and the sharpshooter talent.
Having 5 attacks per turn and with action surge, these would be 9. (luckily in ranged weapons, dexterity is not counted as added damage)
As far as I've heard (I'm not sure) there is also a talent that allows you to make a bonus attack even with the Longbow, so not 1d6 but 1d8. And all this away from the melee.
Another abomination of the game is 9 levels barbarian totem and 11 levels of brutal fighter combined with great weapon master and polearm master. Also, this must be within reach of the weapon (glaive or halberd) to attack and therefore flying, fast moving or teleporting enemies can still escape, but a sharpshooter...
So I decided to create my own subclass where kunai and shuriken are monk weapons.
An option is to ask your DM about the dedicated weapon option in tasha’s cauldron of everything. With that you can consider any weapon that you are proficient with, that lacks the special or heavy property, as a monk weapon.
here’s the words as written one,
Dedicated WeaponTCoE, pg. 48
Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again. The weapon must be a simple or martial weapon that you are proficient with, and must lack the heavy and special properties.
Historically the Shaolin monks are Buddhist monks who live in seclusion to find enlightenment, but due to bandits coming to steal their crops like those in the village, they began to train with work tools and not real weapons. I guess that is where the limitation of monks in the use of weapons comes from.
If you want to imagine your monk with a Glaive or a Halberd, that's fine, but the properties always remain those of the Quarterstaff.
I guess what most people care about most is the huge advantage that the "Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter" feats offer. I must say that I was a bit disappointed when I discovered that dart are not monk weapons. I found that these talents destroy the balance of the game. Great weapon master also has the of him because even if combined with reckless attack he is an abomination, but sharpshooter I find it a bit exaggerated. The range advantage and Archery's bonus should be forbidden to warriors.
I once pictured myself as a level 20 brute fighters with two hand Crossbow and the sharpshooter talent.
Having 5 attacks per turn and with action surge, these would be 9. (luckily in ranged weapons, dexterity is not counted as added damage)
As far as I've heard (I'm not sure) there is also a talent that allows you to make a bonus attack even with the Longbow, so not 1d6 but 1d8. And all this away from the melee.
Another abomination of the game is 9 levels barbarian totem and 11 levels of brutal fighter combined with great weapon master and polearm master. Also, this must be within reach of the weapon (glaive or halberd) to attack and therefore flying, fast moving or teleporting enemies can still escape, but a sharpshooter...
So I decided to create my own subclass where kunai and shuriken are monk weapons.
Just one Problem here. You couldn't actually pull off 9 attacks while holding 2 hand crossbows. you couldn't pull off more than 2.
CrossBow Expert gets rid of the Loading Property but it does not change the Ammunition Property. The Ammunition Property has the requirement that you must have a hand free to load the weapon to make multiple attacks in a turn.
With Two Crossbow's in hand you do not have the free hand to load the weapons. So you don't get to make all of the attacks despite having all of the attacks. Not because of the Loading property but because your hands are too full to keep putting arrows into them to make them all.
Things like the Heavy Crossbow and bows get around this because when they are not actively making an attack they technically have a hand free to reload.
Historically the Shaolin monks are Buddhist monks who live in seclusion to find enlightenment, but due to bandits coming to steal their crops like those in the village, they began to train with work tools and not real weapons. I guess that is where the limitation of monks in the use of weapons comes from.
If you want to imagine your monk with a Glaive or a Halberd, that's fine, but the properties always remain those of the Quarterstaff.
I guess what most people care about most is the huge advantage that the "Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter" feats offer. I must say that I was a bit disappointed when I discovered that dart are not monk weapons. I found that these talents destroy the balance of the game. Great weapon master also has the of him because even if combined with reckless attack he is an abomination, but sharpshooter I find it a bit exaggerated. The range advantage and Archery's bonus should be forbidden to warriors.
I once pictured myself as a level 20 brute fighters with two hand Crossbow and the sharpshooter talent.
Having 5 attacks per turn and with action surge, these would be 9. (luckily in ranged weapons, dexterity is not counted as added damage)
As far as I've heard (I'm not sure) there is also a talent that allows you to make a bonus attack even with the Longbow, so not 1d6 but 1d8. And all this away from the melee.
Another abomination of the game is 9 levels barbarian totem and 11 levels of brutal fighter combined with great weapon master and polearm master. Also, this must be within reach of the weapon (glaive or halberd) to attack and therefore flying, fast moving or teleporting enemies can still escape, but a sharpshooter...
So I decided to create my own subclass where kunai and shuriken are monk weapons.
Just one Problem here. You couldn't actually pull off 9 attacks while holding 2 hand crossbows. you couldn't pull off more than 2.
CrossBow Expert gets rid of the Loading Property but it does not change the Ammunition Property. The Ammunition Property has the requirement that you must have a hand free to load the weapon to make multiple attacks in a turn.
With Two Crossbow's in hand you do not have the free hand to load the weapons. So you don't get to make all of the attacks despite having all of the attacks. Not because of the Loading property but because your hands are too full to keep putting arrows into them to make them all.
Things like the Heavy Crossbow and bows get around this because when they are not actively making an attack they technically have a hand free to reload.
So with a longbow I could actually do 5 attacks with the Crossbow Expert Feat?
Sorry, apparently I was wrong that with ranged attacks they don't use the dex modifier for the damage.
An option is to ask your DM about the dedicated weapon option in tasha’s cauldron of everything. With that you can consider any weapon that you are proficient with, that lacks the special or heavy property, as a monk weapon.
here’s the words as written one,
Dedicated WeaponTCoE, pg. 48
Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again. The weapon must be a simple or martial weapon that you are proficient with, and must lack the heavy and special properties.
Thanks for the tip, I didn't know.
But does this also apply to only one weapon, what should I do if I use darts? After all, the darts are ranged weapons, and they don't normally come back.
2nd-level monk feature You train yourself to use a variety of weapons as monk weapons, not just simple melee weapons and shortswords. Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again.
Historically the Shaolin monks are Buddhist monks who live in seclusion to find enlightenment, but due to bandits coming to steal their crops like those in the village, they began to train with work tools and not real weapons. I guess that is where the limitation of monks in the use of weapons comes from.
Not exactly, reality is that the Shaolin temple is about 1500 years old with its origins semi shrouded in myth. Chinese martial arts are well over 2500 years old, while Buddhism starts around 500 BCE in India which has its own martial traditions (Buddha started as a warrior prince remember). Buddhist traditions cross into China shortly after. Zen/Chan Buddhism develops in India around 400CE and, like other forms of Buddhism finds greater support outside of India than in it. Chan Buddhism and Chinese martial monks meet between 450 CE and 550 at the Shaolin Temple amount other places. There the Indian masters mix and perhaps revitalize the Chinese temple styles. There is so much legend around the temple trying to piece out the truth is difficult at best. The tradition I heard when I took some Shaolin Crane style and then later heard reinforced by a Chinese Kenpo instructor who claimed (I believe him but you are free to disbelieve) to have been trained for about 12 years by his neighbors - 3 Shaolin monks who fled China in 1949 and were living in Honolulu and teaching the police there. Was that the 2 major Indian monks found the temple monks to be fat and lazy and instilled/revitalized the martial arts to aid their meditation and ability to detach. From what I can piece together it was one of several temples that acted as clearing houses and training/comparison grounds for martial arts exchanges to the point where today hundreds of styles claim some sort of origin and connection to the temple. They seem to have covered the various animal styles, drunken style, staff, several sword and spear styles as well as openhanded styles.
Edit (addition): most of the farm implement “monk weapons” (nunchucks, Tonfas kamas, manriki, etc) actually probably come from the peasant traditions of Okinawa and Korea under the Japanese when martial weapons were banned and the locals had to make use of the farm implements they were allowed. Tonfas and nunchucks were grain husking flails, kamas are sickles and chains were one of the few metal utensils allowed. Things like the spear staff and three section staff probably do trace back to Chinese monks who wouldn’t be wanting to carry obvious weapons around when away from the temples.
Historically the Shaolin monks are Buddhist monks who live in seclusion to find enlightenment, but due to bandits coming to steal their crops like those in the village, they began to train with work tools and not real weapons. I guess that is where the limitation of monks in the use of weapons comes from.
Not exactly, reality is that the Shaolin temple is about 1500 years old with its origins semi shrouded in myth. Chinese martial arts are well over 2500 years old, while Buddhism starts around 500 BCE in India which has its own martial traditions (Buddha started as a warrior prince remember). Buddhist traditions cross into China shortly after. Zen/Chan Buddhism develops in India around 400CE and, like other forms of Buddhism finds greater support outside of India than in it. Chan Buddhism and Chinese martial monks meet between 450 CE and 550 at the Shaolin Temple amount other places. There the Indian masters mix and perhaps revitalize the Chinese temple styles. There is so much legend around the temple trying to piece out the truth is difficult at best. The tradition I heard when I took some Shaolin Crane style and then later heard reinforced by a Chinese Kenpo instructor who claimed (I believe him but you are free to disbelieve) to have been trained for about 12 years by his neighbors - 3 Shaolin monks who fled China in 1949 and were living in Honolulu and teaching the police there. Was that the 2 major Indian monks found the temple monks to be fat and lazy and instilled/revitalized the martial arts to aid their meditation and ability to detach. From what I can piece together it was one of several temples that acted as clearing houses and training/comparison grounds for martial arts exchanges to the point where today hundreds of styles claim some sort of origin and connection to the temple. They seem to have covered the various animal styles, drunken style, staff, several sword and spear styles as well as openhanded styles.
Edit (addition): most of the farm implement “monk weapons” (nunchucks, Tonfas kamas, manriki, etc) actually probably come from the peasant traditions of Okinawa and Korea under the Japanese when martial weapons were banned and the locals had to make use of the farm implements they were allowed. Tonfas and nunchucks were grain husking flails, kamas are sickles and chains were one of the few metal utensils allowed. Things like the spear staff and three section staff probably do trace back to Chinese monks who wouldn’t be wanting to carry obvious weapons around when away from the temples.
There is also the issue of there being more than one kind of monk that ran concurrent for parts of history along with the shaolin monks. The name of the other major faction of them escapes me right now. But their temperament and outlook was different. They often get mixed together. So it takes concerted effort and study to seperate them out. This may also be a source for some ideas about where their martial arts training comes from. From what I do recall the idea of the wandering monk came from this other Faction and not the Shaolin.
Yes there were actually a lot of different types of ( mostly Buddhist) monks. The original Indian Buddhists, many of whom were ex warriors with their own martial ( weapon and unarmed) traditions, latter Chinese monks from numerous but mostly Buddhist traditions and Japanese Buddhist and Shinto monks all of whom had both monasteries and wandering teachers so it definitely gets mixed up and twisted together for D & D.
there were also many separate martial traditions in India, Mongolia, China, Korea, Okinawa, Japan, the Philippines, and indochina/Indonesia all of which get dumped into “monks” in DnD.
as you mention in your post, monk weapons are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
That's it, other than where a Monk subclass changes this - the most notable example being the Way of the Kensei feature, Kensei Weapons.
You could always ask your DM nicely if they will allow your character to use the weapons you wish somehow as a homebrew rules variation. :)
Can the Dhampir's Vampiric Bite be used as a monk weapon?
I believe natural weapons, like Tabaxi claws counts. However, since the Dhampir bite specifically says use Constitution modifier I don’t think you could used DEX to attack with it. I’m sure there are some threads around here that probably have better answers
as you mention in your post, monk weapons are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
That's it, other than where a Monk subclass changes this - the most notable example being the Way of the Kensei feature, Kensei Weapons.
You could always ask your DM nicely if they will allow your character to use the weapons you wish somehow as a homebrew rules variation. :)
Can the Dhampir's Vampiric Bite be used as a monk weapon?
I believe natural weapons, like Tabaxi claws counts. However, since the Dhampir bite specifically says use Constitution modifier I don’t think you could used DEX to attack with it. I’m sure there are some threads around here that probably have better answers
Strictly speaking, Dhampir bite counts as a simple melee weapon. Since it doesn't have the two-handed or heavy modifiers, it counts as a monk weapon. However, since it uses constitution instead of strength and the martial arts ability specifically lets you swap dexterity for strength, I would say that you can use it as a monk weapon, but you still have to use constitution for the attacks.
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Other monks still require getting proficiency for that longsword or similar from to come from somewhere besides the monk class. Something that the Kensei does not have to do. And the Kensei can do it with more weapons at one time than a regular monk can do.
Have you heard of a naginata? It’s the Japanese version of a glaive and I just checked and it counts as a monk weapon
What do you mean by saying you checked and it counts. The Glaive (reskinned as naginata) has the heavy property so does not work with dedicated weapon or a kensei weapon. Glaive cannot be a monk weapon even if you have proficiency
You should ask your DM to switch short sword for whip as a monk weapon for you. That’s not OP at all, and fits with the swappable proficiency builds in Tasha’s.
Okay, I have a somewhat important query:
Sun Blades. Mechanically they're longswords, but you can use shortsword proficiency with it. Vanilla Monk Weapon or Kensei/Dedicated Weapon?
Since only having proficiency with a weapon does not make it count as a monk weapon (you would be proficient with the Sun Blade, but since it's still a longsword, it is not a monk weapon), you'd need to use either the Dedicated Weapon feature or have longswords as 1 of your kensei weapons type.
Okay, thanks
You wouldn't want to use the Sun Blade as a monk weapon by default anyway even if a DM did allow you to consider it one just because of Short Sword proficiency.
The Problem with the Sun Blade Specifically is in how it's details are written. It's proficiency to attack is only if you have long sword proficiency and thus are using it as a long sword basically. Which means it's actually taking a (potentially big) penalty to all attack rolls to use it for a very small boost in damage. That's basically counter productive and not worth the trade off. So a monk would only want to use it as a desperate last attempt or under conditions where they can use it as a long sword such as by a Kensei or with proficiency and dedicated weapon.
"Proficiency with a longsword allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with it."
I'm pretty sure that's just copied over from the basic longsword. Every normal weapon has those exact words in the description, it's not saying that using shortsword proficiency doesn't add your bonus.
An option is to ask your DM about the dedicated weapon option in tasha’s cauldron of everything. With that you can consider any weapon that you are proficient with, that lacks the special or heavy property, as a monk weapon.
here’s the words as written one,
Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again. The weapon must be a simple or martial weapon that you are proficient with, and must lack the heavy and special properties.
Just one Problem here. You couldn't actually pull off 9 attacks while holding 2 hand crossbows. you couldn't pull off more than 2.
CrossBow Expert gets rid of the Loading Property but it does not change the Ammunition Property. The Ammunition Property has the requirement that you must have a hand free to load the weapon to make multiple attacks in a turn.
With Two Crossbow's in hand you do not have the free hand to load the weapons. So you don't get to make all of the attacks despite having all of the attacks. Not because of the Loading property but because your hands are too full to keep putting arrows into them to make them all.
Things like the Heavy Crossbow and bows get around this because when they are not actively making an attack they technically have a hand free to reload.
So with a longbow I could actually do 5 attacks with the Crossbow Expert Feat?
Sorry, apparently I was wrong that with ranged attacks they don't use the dex modifier for the damage.
Thanks for the tip, I didn't know.
But does this also apply to only one weapon, what should I do if I use darts? After all, the darts are ranged weapons, and they don't normally come back.
There are two different relevant entries in the Monk here. The first is their proficiencies. The second is what counts as a "Monk Weapon." The dart qualifies as the former, but not the latter. (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47449/are-monks-proficient-in-darts)
Dedicated Weapon
2nd-level monk feature
You train yourself to use a variety of weapons as monk weapons, not just simple melee weapons and shortswords. Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again.
The chosen weapon must meet these criteria:
Not exactly, reality is that the Shaolin temple is about 1500 years old with its origins semi shrouded in myth. Chinese martial arts are well over 2500 years old, while Buddhism starts around 500 BCE in India which has its own martial traditions (Buddha started as a warrior prince remember). Buddhist traditions cross into China shortly after. Zen/Chan Buddhism develops in India around 400CE and, like other forms of Buddhism finds greater support outside of India than in it. Chan Buddhism and Chinese martial monks meet between 450 CE and 550 at the Shaolin Temple amount other places. There the Indian masters mix and perhaps revitalize the Chinese temple styles. There is so much legend around the temple trying to piece out the truth is difficult at best. The tradition I heard when I took some Shaolin Crane style and then later heard reinforced by a Chinese Kenpo instructor who claimed (I believe him but you are free to disbelieve) to have been trained for about 12 years by his neighbors - 3 Shaolin monks who fled China in 1949 and were living in Honolulu and teaching the police there. Was that the 2 major Indian monks found the temple monks to be fat and lazy and instilled/revitalized the martial arts to aid their meditation and ability to detach. From what I can piece together it was one of several temples that acted as clearing houses and training/comparison grounds for martial arts exchanges to the point where today hundreds of styles claim some sort of origin and connection to the temple. They seem to have covered the various animal styles, drunken style, staff, several sword and spear styles as well as openhanded styles.
Edit (addition): most of the farm implement “monk weapons” (nunchucks, Tonfas kamas, manriki, etc) actually probably come from the peasant traditions of Okinawa and Korea under the Japanese when martial weapons were banned and the locals had to make use of the farm implements they were allowed. Tonfas and nunchucks were grain husking flails, kamas are sickles and chains were one of the few metal utensils allowed. Things like the spear staff and three section staff probably do trace back to Chinese monks who wouldn’t be wanting to carry obvious weapons around when away from the temples.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
There is also the issue of there being more than one kind of monk that ran concurrent for parts of history along with the shaolin monks. The name of the other major faction of them escapes me right now. But their temperament and outlook was different. They often get mixed together. So it takes concerted effort and study to seperate them out. This may also be a source for some ideas about where their martial arts training comes from. From what I do recall the idea of the wandering monk came from this other Faction and not the Shaolin.
Yes there were actually a lot of different types of ( mostly Buddhist) monks. The original Indian Buddhists, many of whom were ex warriors with their own martial ( weapon and unarmed) traditions, latter Chinese monks from numerous but mostly Buddhist traditions and Japanese Buddhist and Shinto monks all of whom had both monasteries and wandering teachers so it definitely gets mixed up and twisted together for D & D.
there were also many separate martial traditions in India, Mongolia, China, Korea, Okinawa, Japan, the Philippines, and indochina/Indonesia all of which get dumped into “monks” in DnD.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Can the Dhampir's Vampiric Bite be used as a monk weapon?
I believe natural weapons, like Tabaxi claws counts. However, since the Dhampir bite specifically says use Constitution modifier I don’t think you could used DEX to attack with it. I’m sure there are some threads around here that probably have better answers
Strictly speaking, Dhampir bite counts as a simple melee weapon. Since it doesn't have the two-handed or heavy modifiers, it counts as a monk weapon. However, since it uses constitution instead of strength and the martial arts ability specifically lets you swap dexterity for strength, I would say that you can use it as a monk weapon, but you still have to use constitution for the attacks.