New Player. Literally created my account two days ago and have no idea what I'm going.
So I read that every party always needs a cleric, but the cleric seems to usually die when something breathes in their general direction.
So the basic idea was a cleric that can hold their own in a fight. I wanted to go with a monk starting class because I thought it fit more with the religious aspects of the cleric. Originally my character was going to be a monk who seeks detachment from the pains of the world to achieve enlightenment. Along his journey however, he decides that he can not turn a blind eye to the sufferings of the world and decides to become a cleric as well.
Do monks and clerics work well as a Multiclass? If so, what would be the best way to go about it? I figured I'd need high wisdom and dex, but I don't know if a half-assed cleric or monk is worth the benefits of the other.
Any advice? I've literally only been on here two days and have never even played a campaign. Any tips or suggestions would be immensely appreciated.
I am into monks these days. Had a drunken fighter in dragon heist; a kensai in mad mage; an open hand in acquisitions incorporated, and currently, I have a level 6 light cleric/sun soul in decent into Avernus.
Those two subclasses work well together and are great for the module. I only took a 1 lvl dip in cleric however to get some of the goodies. Monks are tight builds and ASI heavy so even that 1 level dip felt a tad painful.
Never put real thought into it but considering Monk’s secondary stat (arguably primary in some builds) is the same as cleric’s primary, yeah, it could work.
Which one is your primary class? I remember reading from a page (that admittely specialiced in... if not entirely min-maxing then still at least wringing most out of a class) that monks are designed in a way that if you want a good monk multiclassing isn't necessarily a good idea. But if you are playing another class then taking a few levels in monk might not be a bad idea.
Monks are for the most part full martial. If you want a dexterity-oriented cleric that can potentially fight in melee, dipping monk for unarmored defense and martial arts is very good.
Maining monk and dipping cleric instead grants low-level supportive spells such as bless and healing word while still having a strong combat presence.
From the original post, I'd lean for the first option if you really want to multiclass. Just remember that not wielding a shield means you'll need to carry a holy symbol or visibly wear one on your person. Another option would be to forgo monk altogether and go full war cleric.
Whoever said that clerics die easily is not current on their D&D. A 5e cleric, even one of the ones that doesn't gain heavy armor, is upper middling in terms of Tuff Factor. You gain medium armor and shields and a decent if not amazing d8 hit die, which actually puts you squarely in the average when it comes to durability. Half the cleric domains gain access to heavy armor, which stiffens them up a bit, and their own protective/healing spells can often be applied to themselves as much as anything else.
Clerics are sturdier than every arcane caster (bard, wizard, sorcerer, warlock) as well as rogues. They are also, ironically for the purposes of this thread, typically sturdier than monks. A life cleric in chainmail with a shield is going to be significantly tougher than most comparable monks until and unless that monk gets some very specific things going.
Furthermore, monks don't multiclass with anything really well. Monks, like rogues and sorcerers, are a linear class where every single level is important as Monk Level controls your ki progression. In a small handful of cases a low-level dip (1 to 3 levels) in something else can semi-synergize with a particular build, but those are almost always Advanced Class things where you need to know what you're doing to make it work for beans.
Highly recommend simply sticking to one of the Cleric domains that grants heavy armor (Life, Forge, War, Tempest, Nature for whatever reason), and enjoying being a full caster that also gets eighty percent of the Fighter class for freebies.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with cleric durability. When you start a monk will typically have an armor class of 15, a cleric (with a shield and I would always suggest a cleric has a shield) will typically start either 17 (if they want to be stealthy in a chain shirt) or 18 (in scale mail or chain mail) a forge cleric can add one to this if they choose to use blessing of the forge to boost their armor.
If you are new I would stick with single class it is much easier to completely mess up your character if you multiclass.
I also wouldn't necessarily jump to a heavy armor subclass. The sub classes with heavy armor proficiency generally get features that enhance their melee abilities forcing you to be on the front line while the classes without tend ot have features that boost their spell casting abilities on the assumption they leave the melee to the barbarian / fighter / paladin as they can be effective while staying outside of harms way alongside the wizards and sorcerers so they don't need as high an AC.
Monks are starved for Ki Points. At 5th level, you might blow all 5 of them in one round trying to stun a BBEG (one to flurry, 4 on stun attempts). Multi-classing slows your access to ki, and that is harsh. Also, generally, monks tend to gain pretty decent abilities at each level, and they tend to have a good use for bonus actions and actions, as well as high mobility to allow them to make attacks.
If they multi-class and benefit from it, it is generally to add passive/out of combat abilities that require no actions in combat, or involve reactions. 1st level as a war cleric gives you divine favor and/or shield of faith which can be cast before combat, access to bows, a way to use a useful magic weapon instead of an unarmed attack as your bonus, up to 4 (or 5) ritual spells (detect magic, detect poison and disease, purify food, ceremony, perhaps campaign specific rituals). Tempest gives you shield of faith and bless, access to bows, a reaction that deals 2d8 up to your wisdom bonus times as a reaction (up to 10d8) and 3 or so ritual spells.
Honestly, you'll get more 'bang for the buck' out of additional monk levels, or perhaps rogue levels (expertise in 2 skills and sneak attack), or even fighter (dueling style only impacts weapon attacks, so not your flurry or martial arts, but that is still a potential +4 per round. Hexblade warlock is also interesting with a shield spell, hexblade's curse (which retains potency at high levels), bow proficiency, a couple cantrips and either hex, unseen servant, armor of agathys (5 bonus hp and 5 damage are a decent use of a spell slot).
If I wanted to play a cleric flavored monk, I'd likely go with a human variant and add the cleric magic initiate as my feat.
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D&D since 79. New to the Carolinas and looking for Gamers.
As I say whenever a player, especially a new one, is debating multiclassing is a simple question of "Is what you are getting in the other class worth delaying or just not getting class features in your primary class?". Cleric's only benefit to someone focusing on Monk is the spellcasting they have, which I wouldn't say it that synergistic to the monk. The access to healing word, or a few of the domain bonuses do have some use, but you sacrifice ki point progression and the fairly feature dense class progression. If you yourself think it is worth the delay for some basic spellcasting that is a decision for you, an off healer could be useful if your party lacks somewhat in it, but you can never really act as the primary healer.
Another important question would be "Is this class the best multiclass option value wise compared to other classes?". Cleric might seem obvious for their Wisdom casting, but it isn't the only class to rely on it. Druid as a dip could be useful for the utility of wildshaping, and their access to terrain control spells could synergize very nicely with an open hand monk who is able to push enemies into these area spells. Pass Without Trace makes you automatically the best at stealth, and you can hand that out to the party to enable even the bulkiest paladins to have a decent chance at stealth. Rangers can give you more dice on all your attacks, and when you can flurry for four attacks a round that can add up VERY quickly, along with the other utility ranger might provide. Another less obvious choice might be Warlock, which while similar to Ranger in the extra dice, has a variety of other benefits to go along with it.
TL;DR Cleric can be a decent choice, but the context of what else is in the party and what the campaign has you dealing with informs how good that might be. There are also other options to look into that might be better for what you want to be doing.
You could consider using the Way of Mercy subclass from Unearthed Arcana.
It's not truely a substitute for a healer in a party, but if your party uses Short Rests well, you sorta don't need one. And it's hard to knock their ability to give up just 1 of the flurry-of-blows attacks to bring a dying comrade back into the battle. Considering the monks mobility, there's just about nobody they shouldn't be able to get to.
As others have said, once you commit to monk, you really don't want to give up levels to another class.
I've toyed with the idea of playing a Monk/Cleric or Monk/druid. The idea is either a 7/3 Shadow monk/cleric (depends on what channel divinity option you want. Trickery cleric's seems especially helpful) or a 5/5 Land druid/monk. Grassland for haste. Cantrips would be shileleigh and guidance. You could also go 3 monk/7 druid or cleric and still have a competent class. Healing spirit for a good bonus action healing spell for the party. Yes it's short on ki, but it makes up for it in useful support abilities.
In short, yes it could work. It really depends on your playstyle and what ribbons are most important to you as a player for that character.
I had considered a 1 or 2 level dip in Arcana Cleric with WotFE monk to help with the “feel” for that monk subclass with its 2 cantrips and magic missile which you can flavor how you like. Firebolt, ray of frost, etc. to use for range or when you just feel like blasting instead of punching things.
I guess you could do the same with magic initiate but having these options as cantrips could help conserve ki points for other things.
GFB or BB could be useful low level with a quarter staff versatile 1d8 plus the cantrip damage but you have so many options for your bonus action it’s probably best not to take it.
It can be a very viable option. I toyed with the idea of making Deadpool as a Kensei14/Life Cleric 6 just for the hell of it. But kind of depends on what you want out of the build. In my build the reason for taking life cleric levels is to gain healing spells to stay alive longer. Also Bane could work as him annoying enemies by shouting insults at them and Guidance/Bless would be "Maximum effort".
I'm playing a monk/cleric right now! She only just got her first level in cleric (trickery domain) but i did it to add some flair to her usual "punch it until it stops moving" routine and the story put her in a good spot to do so. I only plan on taking about 3 levels of cleric but who knows? I might do more.
I feel like this is a good fit, but for me character development (including multi classing) is all about the story.
So I don't care particularly if the mix of classes doesn't make sense from a mechanical basis if there's a good story reason for it.
I say it's the shit if you've got a purpose.
If you start out as monk maybe it is part of your monastic tradition that you follow the teachings of a certain deity and that once you attain a certain level of enlightenment you then get greater insight into your god’s teachings and you become a cleric. Or you could go vice versa. just wondering How awesome spirit guardians would be while you flurry of blows the crap out of enemies. Drunken Master drunken technique strolling through a group of enemies, without OA on you so your guardians can cover as many enemies as possible.
I have been playing a Kobold Shadow Monk in CoS and the character has been a real blast, especially since the start of level 6 with teleport abilities. Instead of increasing in monk though, I decided to go Twilight cleric instead from level 7. The ability to turn undead as well as the channel divinity feature of twilight sanctuary, along with Faerie Fire and other cleric goodies has been too good to ignore, along with the cool features or muted light which plays well into the shadow monk style. Originally Kobi was going to be an Arcane Trickster after Monk 6, but while Twilight Cleric may not be as optimized, it fits the mood and character development in the unfolding story against said BBEG Strahd.
I was thinking of a hill dwarf monk/cleric with the background of a pimp. I'm thinking drunken Monk and maybe Trickery domain. Not sure about what class to start with though.
I'm playing a Monk and multiclassed into Way of Unity(UA) with the DM's permission in our longest running campaign at the moment and it's been pretty neat so far. You have potentially two d4's to work with, you just being around also helps your team mates thanks to emboldening bond and spells like bless and guidance. Shield of Faith is an easy +2 AC. Bane is something to potentially use in conjunction with Stunning Strike, if all goes well. Then there's some additional utility with spells and cantrips like Thaumaturgy, and Clerics' ability to change their spells during a long rest means you can adjust yourself pretty well. I've found that particularly useful as it guarantees that my Monk has a decent array of utility spells to switch in and out as needed which has been nifty as a martial. You just can't think of it as a healer since it'll be bad at that, but it's been useful for flat bonuses and boons that help both me and the team.
Obviously Domain of Unity's become Domain of Peace now (which is a way lamer name if you ask me, but hey I'm not Wizards.), and we agreed at next milestone to update Unity into Peace which kind of works in my favor since you get way more uses of Emboldening Bond per day. I'm contemplating whether I'll take a 2nd or 3rd level in it or not but not going past that. I'm highly considering making use of those new subclass change mechanics to switch to Way of Mercy which might have great synergy with it, but even as is I've found it useful.
Can't comment about others. I don't think any of them will be bad per se, it at least shares Wisdom as an important stat no matter what; though I did specifically choose Unity/Peace because of its focus on useful d4 bonuses over others that I didn't quite feel offered as much for a multiclass to Monk, but hey maybe someone has a great idea. It's fun in the very least.
SO i just happened upon this as i was looking for a good Monk Subclass to match up with my Life Domain Cleric, going for a "Battle Doctor" as to speak by using the mobility and damage of the monk, with the heavy AC and HP, and obviously the heals, of the cleric, but what im stumpped at, as i said, was what subclass that can pair well with, to get the fullest damage out.. so guess what im asking is anyone got a idea?
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New Player. Literally created my account two days ago and have no idea what I'm going.
So I read that every party always needs a cleric, but the cleric seems to usually die when something breathes in their general direction.
So the basic idea was a cleric that can hold their own in a fight. I wanted to go with a monk starting class because I thought it fit more with the religious aspects of the cleric. Originally my character was going to be a monk who seeks detachment from the pains of the world to achieve enlightenment. Along his journey however, he decides that he can not turn a blind eye to the sufferings of the world and decides to become a cleric as well.
Do monks and clerics work well as a Multiclass? If so, what would be the best way to go about it? I figured I'd need high wisdom and dex, but I don't know if a half-assed cleric or monk is worth the benefits of the other.
Any advice? I've literally only been on here two days and have never even played a campaign. Any tips or suggestions would be immensely appreciated.
I am into monks these days. Had a drunken fighter in dragon heist; a kensai in mad mage; an open hand in acquisitions incorporated, and currently, I have a level 6 light cleric/sun soul in decent into Avernus.
Those two subclasses work well together and are great for the module. I only took a 1 lvl dip in cleric however to get some of the goodies. Monks are tight builds and ASI heavy so even that 1 level dip felt a tad painful.
good luck in your decision.
Never put real thought into it but considering Monk’s secondary stat (arguably primary in some builds) is the same as cleric’s primary, yeah, it could work.
Which one is your primary class? I remember reading from a page (that admittely specialiced in... if not entirely min-maxing then still at least wringing most out of a class)
that monks are designed in a way that if you want a good monk multiclassing isn't necessarily a good idea. But if you are playing another class then taking a few levels in monk might not be a bad idea.
Monks are for the most part full martial. If you want a dexterity-oriented cleric that can potentially fight in melee, dipping monk for unarmored defense and martial arts is very good.
Maining monk and dipping cleric instead grants low-level supportive spells such as bless and healing word while still having a strong combat presence.
From the original post, I'd lean for the first option if you really want to multiclass. Just remember that not wielding a shield means you'll need to carry a holy symbol or visibly wear one on your person. Another option would be to forgo monk altogether and go full war cleric.
Whoever said that clerics die easily is not current on their D&D. A 5e cleric, even one of the ones that doesn't gain heavy armor, is upper middling in terms of Tuff Factor. You gain medium armor and shields and a decent if not amazing d8 hit die, which actually puts you squarely in the average when it comes to durability. Half the cleric domains gain access to heavy armor, which stiffens them up a bit, and their own protective/healing spells can often be applied to themselves as much as anything else.
Clerics are sturdier than every arcane caster (bard, wizard, sorcerer, warlock) as well as rogues. They are also, ironically for the purposes of this thread, typically sturdier than monks. A life cleric in chainmail with a shield is going to be significantly tougher than most comparable monks until and unless that monk gets some very specific things going.
Furthermore, monks don't multiclass with anything really well. Monks, like rogues and sorcerers, are a linear class where every single level is important as Monk Level controls your ki progression. In a small handful of cases a low-level dip (1 to 3 levels) in something else can semi-synergize with a particular build, but those are almost always Advanced Class things where you need to know what you're doing to make it work for beans.
Highly recommend simply sticking to one of the Cleric domains that grants heavy armor (Life, Forge, War, Tempest, Nature for whatever reason), and enjoying being a full caster that also gets eighty percent of the Fighter class for freebies.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
I agree that there is nothing wrong with cleric durability. When you start a monk will typically have an armor class of 15, a cleric (with a shield and I would always suggest a cleric has a shield) will typically start either 17 (if they want to be stealthy in a chain shirt) or 18 (in scale mail or chain mail) a forge cleric can add one to this if they choose to use blessing of the forge to boost their armor.
If you are new I would stick with single class it is much easier to completely mess up your character if you multiclass.
I also wouldn't necessarily jump to a heavy armor subclass. The sub classes with heavy armor proficiency generally get features that enhance their melee abilities forcing you to be on the front line while the classes without tend ot have features that boost their spell casting abilities on the assumption they leave the melee to the barbarian / fighter / paladin as they can be effective while staying outside of harms way alongside the wizards and sorcerers so they don't need as high an AC.
Monks are starved for Ki Points. At 5th level, you might blow all 5 of them in one round trying to stun a BBEG (one to flurry, 4 on stun attempts). Multi-classing slows your access to ki, and that is harsh. Also, generally, monks tend to gain pretty decent abilities at each level, and they tend to have a good use for bonus actions and actions, as well as high mobility to allow them to make attacks.
If they multi-class and benefit from it, it is generally to add passive/out of combat abilities that require no actions in combat, or involve reactions. 1st level as a war cleric gives you divine favor and/or shield of faith which can be cast before combat, access to bows, a way to use a useful magic weapon instead of an unarmed attack as your bonus, up to 4 (or 5) ritual spells (detect magic, detect poison and disease, purify food, ceremony, perhaps campaign specific rituals). Tempest gives you shield of faith and bless, access to bows, a reaction that deals 2d8 up to your wisdom bonus times as a reaction (up to 10d8) and 3 or so ritual spells.
Honestly, you'll get more 'bang for the buck' out of additional monk levels, or perhaps rogue levels (expertise in 2 skills and sneak attack), or even fighter (dueling style only impacts weapon attacks, so not your flurry or martial arts, but that is still a potential +4 per round. Hexblade warlock is also interesting with a shield spell, hexblade's curse (which retains potency at high levels), bow proficiency, a couple cantrips and either hex, unseen servant, armor of agathys (5 bonus hp and 5 damage are a decent use of a spell slot).
If I wanted to play a cleric flavored monk, I'd likely go with a human variant and add the cleric magic initiate as my feat.
D&D since 79. New to the Carolinas and looking for Gamers.
As I say whenever a player, especially a new one, is debating multiclassing is a simple question of "Is what you are getting in the other class worth delaying or just not getting class features in your primary class?". Cleric's only benefit to someone focusing on Monk is the spellcasting they have, which I wouldn't say it that synergistic to the monk. The access to healing word, or a few of the domain bonuses do have some use, but you sacrifice ki point progression and the fairly feature dense class progression. If you yourself think it is worth the delay for some basic spellcasting that is a decision for you, an off healer could be useful if your party lacks somewhat in it, but you can never really act as the primary healer.
Another important question would be "Is this class the best multiclass option value wise compared to other classes?". Cleric might seem obvious for their Wisdom casting, but it isn't the only class to rely on it. Druid as a dip could be useful for the utility of wildshaping, and their access to terrain control spells could synergize very nicely with an open hand monk who is able to push enemies into these area spells. Pass Without Trace makes you automatically the best at stealth, and you can hand that out to the party to enable even the bulkiest paladins to have a decent chance at stealth. Rangers can give you more dice on all your attacks, and when you can flurry for four attacks a round that can add up VERY quickly, along with the other utility ranger might provide. Another less obvious choice might be Warlock, which while similar to Ranger in the extra dice, has a variety of other benefits to go along with it.
TL;DR Cleric can be a decent choice, but the context of what else is in the party and what the campaign has you dealing with informs how good that might be. There are also other options to look into that might be better for what you want to be doing.
You could consider using the Way of Mercy subclass from Unearthed Arcana.
It's not truely a substitute for a healer in a party, but if your party uses Short Rests well, you sorta don't need one.
And it's hard to knock their ability to give up just 1 of the flurry-of-blows attacks to bring a dying comrade back into the battle.
Considering the monks mobility, there's just about nobody they shouldn't be able to get to.
As others have said, once you commit to monk, you really don't want to give up levels to another class.
I've toyed with the idea of playing a Monk/Cleric or Monk/druid. The idea is either a 7/3 Shadow monk/cleric (depends on what channel divinity option you want. Trickery cleric's seems especially helpful) or a 5/5 Land druid/monk. Grassland for haste. Cantrips would be shileleigh and guidance. You could also go 3 monk/7 druid or cleric and still have a competent class. Healing spirit for a good bonus action healing spell for the party. Yes it's short on ki, but it makes up for it in useful support abilities.
In short, yes it could work. It really depends on your playstyle and what ribbons are most important to you as a player for that character.
I had considered a 1 or 2 level dip in Arcana Cleric with WotFE monk to help with the “feel” for that monk subclass with its 2 cantrips and magic missile which you can flavor how you like. Firebolt, ray of frost, etc. to use for range or when you just feel like blasting instead of punching things.
I guess you could do the same with magic initiate but having these options as cantrips could help conserve ki points for other things.
GFB or BB could be useful low level with a quarter staff versatile 1d8 plus the cantrip damage but you have so many options for your bonus action it’s probably best not to take it.
It can be a very viable option. I toyed with the idea of making Deadpool as a Kensei14/Life Cleric 6 just for the hell of it. But kind of depends on what you want out of the build. In my build the reason for taking life cleric levels is to gain healing spells to stay alive longer. Also Bane could work as him annoying enemies by shouting insults at them and Guidance/Bless would be "Maximum effort".
I'm playing a monk/cleric right now! She only just got her first level in cleric (trickery domain) but i did it to add some flair to her usual "punch it until it stops moving" routine and the story put her in a good spot to do so. I only plan on taking about 3 levels of cleric but who knows? I might do more.
So far it's been a lot of fun.
I feel like this is a good fit, but for me character development (including multi classing) is all about the story.
So I don't care particularly if the mix of classes doesn't make sense from a mechanical basis if there's a good story reason for it.
I say it's the shit if you've got a purpose.
If you start out as monk maybe it is part of your monastic tradition that you follow the teachings of a certain deity and that once you attain a certain level of enlightenment you then get greater insight into your god’s teachings and you become a cleric. Or you could go vice versa.
just wondering How awesome spirit guardians would be while you flurry of blows the crap out of enemies. Drunken Master drunken technique strolling through a group of enemies, without OA on you so your guardians can cover as many enemies as possible.
I have been playing a Kobold Shadow Monk in CoS and the character has been a real blast, especially since the start of level 6 with teleport abilities. Instead of increasing in monk though, I decided to go Twilight cleric instead from level 7. The ability to turn undead as well as the channel divinity feature of twilight sanctuary, along with Faerie Fire and other cleric goodies has been too good to ignore, along with the cool features or muted light which plays well into the shadow monk style. Originally Kobi was going to be an Arcane Trickster after Monk 6, but while Twilight Cleric may not be as optimized, it fits the mood and character development in the unfolding story against said BBEG Strahd.
I was thinking of a hill dwarf monk/cleric with the background of a pimp. I'm thinking drunken Monk and maybe Trickery domain. Not sure about what class to start with though.
I'm playing a Monk and multiclassed into Way of Unity(UA) with the DM's permission in our longest running campaign at the moment and it's been pretty neat so far. You have potentially two d4's to work with, you just being around also helps your team mates thanks to emboldening bond and spells like bless and guidance. Shield of Faith is an easy +2 AC. Bane is something to potentially use in conjunction with Stunning Strike, if all goes well. Then there's some additional utility with spells and cantrips like Thaumaturgy, and Clerics' ability to change their spells during a long rest means you can adjust yourself pretty well. I've found that particularly useful as it guarantees that my Monk has a decent array of utility spells to switch in and out as needed which has been nifty as a martial. You just can't think of it as a healer since it'll be bad at that, but it's been useful for flat bonuses and boons that help both me and the team.
Obviously Domain of Unity's become Domain of Peace now (which is a way lamer name if you ask me, but hey I'm not Wizards.), and we agreed at next milestone to update Unity into Peace which kind of works in my favor since you get way more uses of Emboldening Bond per day. I'm contemplating whether I'll take a 2nd or 3rd level in it or not but not going past that. I'm highly considering making use of those new subclass change mechanics to switch to Way of Mercy which might have great synergy with it, but even as is I've found it useful.
Can't comment about others. I don't think any of them will be bad per se, it at least shares Wisdom as an important stat no matter what; though I did specifically choose Unity/Peace because of its focus on useful d4 bonuses over others that I didn't quite feel offered as much for a multiclass to Monk, but hey maybe someone has a great idea. It's fun in the very least.
SO i just happened upon this as i was looking for a good Monk Subclass to match up with my Life Domain Cleric, going for a "Battle Doctor" as to speak by using the mobility and damage of the monk, with the heavy AC and HP, and obviously the heals, of the cleric, but what im stumpped at, as i said, was what subclass that can pair well with, to get the fullest damage out.. so guess what im asking is anyone got a idea?