So I'm wanting to play a paladin character who without armor for backstory reasons and was wondering what I could do to make that character work. I know that multi-classing into warlock works, but I kind of don't want to multitask this time. So is there any other options or better multi-classes cuz they also don't really want to use warlock.
But if warlock is the best option, is there a way to do a more paladin focused paladin warlock multiclass. Oh and also, I am trying to do a good aligned paladin so something like oath of devotion or other such paths.
Unarmed (no weapons) or unarmored (no armor) or both?
You can probably hammer any of those square pegs into the round hole, provided the party isn't overly optimized. Assuming I am understanding correctly that you are mostly trying to avoid armor, it can be done though it won't be "good" Push dex to get your AC as high as possible...assuming you can still use weapons to take a rapier. Take arcane initiate so you can get mage armor, those two should give you a 16 AC out of the box. Can you use a shield? Or reflavor something to give a shield's AC benefit, such as wrapping your cloak around your arm and using it as a parrying device. That would get you to 18ish at level 1.
You could try to pick up mobile and try to move in, and out of combat to avoid being attacked. Defensive Duelist might be an option as well.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm thinking that would be kind of tough. For one, you'd want to boost DEX if you aren't wearing armor. Except your unarmed strikes would use STR and you don't really have a way to change that. And then you'd want CHA for your aura and spellcasting... It just is too MAD, I'd think, at least as a pure class paladin. I just think you are giving up a lot of paladin features (heavy armor, martial weapons, and optimization in one of your main stats) to play this. Do you think you could reflavor a monk to devote themselves to an oath like a paladin, but have all the monk features?
go monk. raidiant strikes works with unarmed strikes if you get there. so does crusader's mantle.
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hello there! I have too many ideas. I love splatoon and obssess over any minmax. I'm sorry if anything I post is unkind or offends you. I'm well aware that I am very weird and I like it that way! call me adam or atomic.
You could max dex and take magic initiate wizard for mage armor. Assuming a 17 dex, they could have you at AC 16 at first level, going up to 17 at 4th when you round up dex. Not great, but respectable. If you’re open to a shield, there’s another +2. Then beg the party to let you have any cloak of protection that comes up.
Im assuming you mean unarmored as you said in the other post. Unarmed you just take the fighting style and there you go.
Trying to be both unarmed and unarmored, now that gets MAD and really tricky.
again, go monk! you should have decent wis and radiant strikes works well!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
hello there! I have too many ideas. I love splatoon and obssess over any minmax. I'm sorry if anything I post is unkind or offends you. I'm well aware that I am very weird and I like it that way! call me adam or atomic.
again, go monk! you should have decent wis and radiant strikes works well!
To multiclass paladin/monk according to RAW, they’d need a 13 in str, dex, wis and cha. Leaving them with mediocre scores in everything. Their unarmored AC will be something like a 14 at best, to hit rolls will be low, hp will be low since you have like an 11 con (terrible for a melee character). It is not an effective multiclass unless you roll (very well) or have a DM that lets you ignore the ability score requirements.
The trope of a Paladin is often a master of armor and weapons, a holy warrior with bestowed magic, there is usually a credo component. Aside from backstory, what do you really hope to do with the Paladin? What is the point of removing a primary strength of the class over just being a Hexblade(or similar) of a patron deity with paladin adjacent moral and martial outlook?
You want to bring auras and better spellcasting to the table.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
An unarmed and unarmored paladin? That's not going to go well... well here are what I think the major considerations are,
1. Multiclassing
Multiclassing is the most obvious option here.
1.A) Barbarian:
gives unarmored defence CON+DEX, it's not the best solution but it helps, Rage also increases unarmed damage and reduce damage taken but prohibits concentration and spellcasting. Thematically, Path of the Zealot feels like a good match for this subclass, the extra damage (which can be necrotic or radiant) on the first melee attack per turn works well, it's less damage than a smite but it's every round at no spell slot cost.
1.B) Sorcerer:
might sound odd at first but it gives access to magic armor, shield spell, more spell slots, and the Dragonic Subclass. The Dragonic Subclass also gives an unarmored defence, CHA+DEX. You can also pick-up the alter self spell, at 1d6 it gives less damage then the unarmed fighting style but it gives the ability to swap damage types to Piercing or Slashing, which might come up in some situations. You also gets access to spells like Greece and Web, some battlefield control can be helpful considering you're probably going to suffer to try and main tank in this build.
1.C) Monk
Covering it, since it's an obvious one, but Monk would be problematic from multiple angles, mostly the ASI requirements would get insane. It spreads the ASI too thin, while there are some benefits to Bonus Action unarmed attack, and some Ki abilities... you'll always be behind just being a monk with no Paladin levels at all.
1.D) Warlock
Since it was brought up, I'll go over it, but I simply don't see how Warlock works, unless you're just talking about using eldritch blast (which isn't really matching the whole unarmed bit) to deal damage, I'd assume this is basically for Fiendish Vigor (patching up lower AC with temp HP) and Armor of Shadows (for Magic Armor). If it comes to taking more damage, I think Barbarian is just a better option here and that simply offers more damage for unarmed strikes.
2. Paladin Subclass
Subclass is going to give quiet a few different results here, the one subclass that absolutely does not work is Oath of Devotion, as sacred weapon requires a weapon.
2.A) Oath of the Ancients
Nature's Wrath makes you more of a Crowd Controller, which again helps make up for the lack of AC and potentially lower damage. You can also cast Misty step allowing you more movement and the ability to escape in battle.
2.B) Oath of Glory
This one gives the ability to distribute temporary HP after using Divine Smite, this means the ability to take more damage and you can spread it to allies if they are the ones in danger. You eventually get the haste spell, altho self-hasting is always a risk and other classes that get access to haste usually have better things to concentrate on than Haste.
2.C) Oath of Vengence
Vow of Enmity works with unarmed attacks and like Oath of Glory, eventually get the haste spell (tho self-hasting still not advised) and there is misty step. This is the highest damage option but that damage comes at a price.
3. Gear
There are certain gear items that you'll probably want to confirm with your DM that they'd give your character at some point, there are two that would make this build much more viable and inline with the rest of the party.
3.A) Bracers of Defense
While unarmed and not using a shield, gives +2 AC, so basically like using a shield without using a shield.
3.B) Wraps of Unarmed Power
Your attacks still need all the help they can get, these are basically the replacement for enchanted weapons when using unarmed strikes.
4. Feats
4.A) Origin Feats
I think there are 6 origin feats for consideration, Alert, Lucky, Magic Initiate, Musician, Tavern Brawler and Tough.
Tavern Brawler, is the most unarmed strike focus, while it only grants a 1d4+STR (less then Unarmed Fighting Style), it does give a once per turn 5 foot push when landing an unarmed strike, additionally you can reroll a 1 on the damage die.
Musician, this one is more party oriented granting Heroic Inspiration
Tough, +2HP per level can help take an extra hit or two...
Magic Initiate, a lot of spell options to help cover some weaknesses
Lucky, you'd use this more to impose disadvantage on attacks against you to be a bit more resilient in battle
Alert, higher initiative is generally always good.
4.B) Fighting Style Feats
This one is more simple, there is only really two choices given no armor, no weapon and no shield.
Unarmed Fighting or Blind Fighting. The natural choice here is going to be Unarmed Fighting, getting back to 1d8 damage is going to help a lot, while blind fighting can be quiet useful in darkness, when blinded or against invisible creatures, you'll want the extra damage from unarmed fighting against everything.
4.C) General Feats
While there is a need to pump up ASIs for this build, there is a few feats for consideration.
Grappler, the ability to grapple one creature after hitting them is significant for this build. After grappling you then have advantage on attacking that same creature and can move it around the battlefield more easily. If you have unarmed fighting then you also may get to deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage to a creature grappled to you at the start of your turn, making this a perfect match.
Charger, extra damage when moving 10 foot towards a target and hitting with an attack.
Inspiring Leader, another source of temp HP
Telekinetic an extra shove, as a bonus action, still a bit more battlefield control.
Resilient, may recommend dexterity rather than the usual constitution, for reducing damage against some AoE effects. Resilient and Warcaster is an option if really wanting to try and maintain concentration spells but I'd say for 2 feats and given the lower AC, I think spending the feats else where will ultimately be better.
=====
After Thought, can you do this, yes? should you do it, probably not, it's going to be a less effective Monk that just has a few spells and auras while being significantly less survivable than monk who gets things like evasion and deflect attack... it is a build that requires far more investment than a longsword + shield for being less viable than Longsword + Shield. About the only benefit is taking the Grappler Feat and trying to keep a creature grappled, else wise everything in here, a Paladin with a longsword + shield can basically do better or gets the same benefit.
If you were to play this, I think the choices boil down to being a Paladin/Barbarian and using rage to make up for the lower AC and to increase damage or going Paladin/Sorcerer and focusing more on battlefield control, slowing things down from getting the party just that bit more 1st round you want to hold everything back so the party potentially gets an extra round in most combats. I wouldn't really recommend pure paladin for this, since you've given up the Paladin proficiencies for nothing, Heavy Armor and Martial Weapons, you need something to be replacing the loss of those proficiencies which a pure paladin does not have anything to do that but the subclass builds at least help mitigate to some degree.
Honestly, I think he meant unarmored more than unarmed based on the fact that there were two threads and the language used in the original post.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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So I'm wanting to play a paladin character who without armor for backstory reasons and was wondering what I could do to make that character work. I know that multi-classing into warlock works, but I kind of don't want to multitask this time. So is there any other options or better multi-classes cuz they also don't really want to use warlock.
But if warlock is the best option, is there a way to do a more paladin focused paladin warlock multiclass. Oh and also, I am trying to do a good aligned paladin so something like oath of devotion or other such paths.
Unarmed (no weapons) or unarmored (no armor) or both?
You can probably hammer any of those square pegs into the round hole, provided the party isn't overly optimized. Assuming I am understanding correctly that you are mostly trying to avoid armor, it can be done though it won't be "good" Push dex to get your AC as high as possible...assuming you can still use weapons to take a rapier. Take arcane initiate so you can get mage armor, those two should give you a 16 AC out of the box. Can you use a shield? Or reflavor something to give a shield's AC benefit, such as wrapping your cloak around your arm and using it as a parrying device. That would get you to 18ish at level 1.
You could try to pick up mobile and try to move in, and out of combat to avoid being attacked. Defensive Duelist might be an option as well.
EDIT: If old feats are in play, perhaps your DM will let you take eldritch adept and get mage armor via that invocation. https://www.dndbeyond.com/feats/451339-eldritch-adept
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I'm thinking that would be kind of tough. For one, you'd want to boost DEX if you aren't wearing armor. Except your unarmed strikes would use STR and you don't really have a way to change that. And then you'd want CHA for your aura and spellcasting... It just is too MAD, I'd think, at least as a pure class paladin. I just think you are giving up a lot of paladin features (heavy armor, martial weapons, and optimization in one of your main stats) to play this. Do you think you could reflavor a monk to devote themselves to an oath like a paladin, but have all the monk features?
go monk. raidiant strikes works with unarmed strikes if you get there. so does crusader's mantle.
hello there! I have too many ideas. I love splatoon and obssess over any minmax. I'm sorry if anything I post is unkind or offends you. I'm well aware that I am very weird and I like it that way! call me adam or atomic.
You could max dex and take magic initiate wizard for mage armor. Assuming a 17 dex, they could have you at AC 16 at first level, going up to 17 at 4th when you round up dex. Not great, but respectable.
If you’re open to a shield, there’s another +2.
Then beg the party to let you have any cloak of protection that comes up.
Im assuming you mean unarmored as you said in the other post. Unarmed you just take the fighting style and there you go.
Trying to be both unarmed and unarmored, now that gets MAD and really tricky.
again, go monk! you should have decent wis and radiant strikes works well!
hello there! I have too many ideas. I love splatoon and obssess over any minmax. I'm sorry if anything I post is unkind or offends you. I'm well aware that I am very weird and I like it that way! call me adam or atomic.
To multiclass paladin/monk according to RAW, they’d need a 13 in str, dex, wis and cha. Leaving them with mediocre scores in everything. Their unarmored AC will be something like a 14 at best, to hit rolls will be low, hp will be low since you have like an 11 con (terrible for a melee character).
It is not an effective multiclass unless you roll (very well) or have a DM that lets you ignore the ability score requirements.
The trope of a Paladin is often a master of armor and weapons, a holy warrior with bestowed magic, there is usually a credo component. Aside from backstory, what do you really hope to do with the Paladin? What is the point of removing a primary strength of the class over just being a Hexblade(or similar) of a patron deity with paladin adjacent moral and martial outlook?
You want to bring auras and better spellcasting to the table.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, that makes good sense. So, we need a Cleric subclass that get's smites and auras! LOL.
An unarmed and unarmored paladin? That's not going to go well... well here are what I think the major considerations are,
1. Multiclassing
Multiclassing is the most obvious option here.
1.A) Barbarian:
gives unarmored defence CON+DEX, it's not the best solution but it helps, Rage also increases unarmed damage and reduce damage taken but prohibits concentration and spellcasting. Thematically, Path of the Zealot feels like a good match for this subclass, the extra damage (which can be necrotic or radiant) on the first melee attack per turn works well, it's less damage than a smite but it's every round at no spell slot cost.
1.B) Sorcerer:
might sound odd at first but it gives access to magic armor, shield spell, more spell slots, and the Dragonic Subclass. The Dragonic Subclass also gives an unarmored defence, CHA+DEX. You can also pick-up the alter self spell, at 1d6 it gives less damage then the unarmed fighting style but it gives the ability to swap damage types to Piercing or Slashing, which might come up in some situations. You also gets access to spells like Greece and Web, some battlefield control can be helpful considering you're probably going to suffer to try and main tank in this build.
1.C) Monk
Covering it, since it's an obvious one, but Monk would be problematic from multiple angles, mostly the ASI requirements would get insane. It spreads the ASI too thin, while there are some benefits to Bonus Action unarmed attack, and some Ki abilities... you'll always be behind just being a monk with no Paladin levels at all.
1.D) Warlock
Since it was brought up, I'll go over it, but I simply don't see how Warlock works, unless you're just talking about using eldritch blast (which isn't really matching the whole unarmed bit) to deal damage, I'd assume this is basically for Fiendish Vigor (patching up lower AC with temp HP) and Armor of Shadows (for Magic Armor). If it comes to taking more damage, I think Barbarian is just a better option here and that simply offers more damage for unarmed strikes.
2. Paladin Subclass
Subclass is going to give quiet a few different results here, the one subclass that absolutely does not work is Oath of Devotion, as sacred weapon requires a weapon.
2.A) Oath of the Ancients
Nature's Wrath makes you more of a Crowd Controller, which again helps make up for the lack of AC and potentially lower damage. You can also cast Misty step allowing you more movement and the ability to escape in battle.
2.B) Oath of Glory
This one gives the ability to distribute temporary HP after using Divine Smite, this means the ability to take more damage and you can spread it to allies if they are the ones in danger. You eventually get the haste spell, altho self-hasting is always a risk and other classes that get access to haste usually have better things to concentrate on than Haste.
2.C) Oath of Vengence
Vow of Enmity works with unarmed attacks and like Oath of Glory, eventually get the haste spell (tho self-hasting still not advised) and there is misty step. This is the highest damage option but that damage comes at a price.
3. Gear
There are certain gear items that you'll probably want to confirm with your DM that they'd give your character at some point, there are two that would make this build much more viable and inline with the rest of the party.
3.A) Bracers of Defense
While unarmed and not using a shield, gives +2 AC, so basically like using a shield without using a shield.
3.B) Wraps of Unarmed Power
Your attacks still need all the help they can get, these are basically the replacement for enchanted weapons when using unarmed strikes.
4. Feats
4.A) Origin Feats
I think there are 6 origin feats for consideration, Alert, Lucky, Magic Initiate, Musician, Tavern Brawler and Tough.
Tavern Brawler, is the most unarmed strike focus, while it only grants a 1d4+STR (less then Unarmed Fighting Style), it does give a once per turn 5 foot push when landing an unarmed strike, additionally you can reroll a 1 on the damage die.
Musician, this one is more party oriented granting Heroic Inspiration
Tough, +2HP per level can help take an extra hit or two...
Magic Initiate, a lot of spell options to help cover some weaknesses
Lucky, you'd use this more to impose disadvantage on attacks against you to be a bit more resilient in battle
Alert, higher initiative is generally always good.
4.B) Fighting Style Feats
This one is more simple, there is only really two choices given no armor, no weapon and no shield.
Unarmed Fighting or Blind Fighting. The natural choice here is going to be Unarmed Fighting, getting back to 1d8 damage is going to help a lot, while blind fighting can be quiet useful in darkness, when blinded or against invisible creatures, you'll want the extra damage from unarmed fighting against everything.
4.C) General Feats
While there is a need to pump up ASIs for this build, there is a few feats for consideration.
Grappler, the ability to grapple one creature after hitting them is significant for this build. After grappling you then have advantage on attacking that same creature and can move it around the battlefield more easily. If you have unarmed fighting then you also may get to deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage to a creature grappled to you at the start of your turn, making this a perfect match.
Charger, extra damage when moving 10 foot towards a target and hitting with an attack.
Inspiring Leader, another source of temp HP
Telekinetic an extra shove, as a bonus action, still a bit more battlefield control.
Resilient, may recommend dexterity rather than the usual constitution, for reducing damage against some AoE effects. Resilient and Warcaster is an option if really wanting to try and maintain concentration spells but I'd say for 2 feats and given the lower AC, I think spending the feats else where will ultimately be better.
=====
After Thought, can you do this, yes? should you do it, probably not, it's going to be a less effective Monk that just has a few spells and auras while being significantly less survivable than monk who gets things like evasion and deflect attack... it is a build that requires far more investment than a longsword + shield for being less viable than Longsword + Shield. About the only benefit is taking the Grappler Feat and trying to keep a creature grappled, else wise everything in here, a Paladin with a longsword + shield can basically do better or gets the same benefit.
If you were to play this, I think the choices boil down to being a Paladin/Barbarian and using rage to make up for the lower AC and to increase damage or going Paladin/Sorcerer and focusing more on battlefield control, slowing things down from getting the party just that bit more 1st round you want to hold everything back so the party potentially gets an extra round in most combats. I wouldn't really recommend pure paladin for this, since you've given up the Paladin proficiencies for nothing, Heavy Armor and Martial Weapons, you need something to be replacing the loss of those proficiencies which a pure paladin does not have anything to do that but the subclass builds at least help mitigate to some degree.
Honestly, I think he meant unarmored more than unarmed based on the fact that there were two threads and the language used in the original post.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha