What is a good option for a level 6 paladin to multiclass to or should I stay the course?
A little bit of context - I'm playing in an AL game and we're around 6-8 level, with the conversion I should be going to level 7. Currently our core group is a Fighter (samurai dex build using a bow), a warlock, two sorcerers (1 being divine soul), and a ranger, and myself a paladin (using warhammer+shield). As such they basically all stay back and use ranged attacks and I tank all the hits. Adversely fighting flying/ranged creatures I stand there pointlessly holding my attack if the DM moves the creatures within range (which he usually doesn't) while they use their spells/bow.
I was looking forward to Improved Smite and initially was going to wait until level 12+ but I don't know if I'll get to level 13 and I find I lack any good ranged options as i use my spell slots for Divine Smite mostly.
My options -
Rogue for sneak attack (if I change weapons to a rapier) + expertise (sneak/perception) - either Assassin for some advantage, or Arcane Trickster for some ranged spells
Warlock for ranged cantrips - maybe Pact of the Tome, The Fiend (odd for a Good Paladin) or The Great Old One.
Sorcerer for ranged cantrips - maybe Divine Soul of cleric cantrips (i.e. Spare the Dying).
My Stats - Str 16 | Dex 14 | Con 16 | Int 8 | Wis 10 | Cha 14
You are only 1 level away from an ASI and you can take magic initiate sorcerer or warlock to grab those ranged attack cantrips, so if you are going to multiclass, at least have other features you are after.
3 levels of warlock (any, but lets say celestial if it is required) can get you pact of chain to have a familiar to scout, help or attack with, and you can take the gift of the ever living ones invocation to max out any healing targeted at you to improve tanking. And you will have a few more non-spell healing options too.
Of course you can also fix your range inadequacy by picking up a handful of javelins which you had as an option in starting equipment. Also, the fighter and/or ranger should be supporting you on the front lines. 1 melee fighter can't hold a formation, how are the archers not constantly at disadvantage from enemies getting close?
Half the time they all run away from the enemy. The fighter is using a dex/Samurai build the DM has helped her with - she also has an elven feat so she can get additional advantage on attack rolls. In one fight I went down and while they got the enemy with a ranged spell they took 2 turns to get to me because they were so far away.
Half the time they all run away from the enemy. The fighter is using a dex/Samurai build the DM has helped her with - she also has an elven feat so she can get additional advantage on attack rolls. In one fight I went down and while they got the enemy with a ranged spell they took 2 turns to get to me because they were so far away.
The divine soul doesnt know healing word either? Yeah, you might want to go for the extra tanking options I mentioned.
in all seriousness I think you should stay the course but you might point out your observations to this particular DM. you shouldn't have to multicass to participate.
I'd consider celestial warlock so you can bonus action healing light yourself. Plus you'll pick up both eldritch blast and sacred flame as ranged options, plus a short rechargeable spell slot and access to a couple of spells that might be useful.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'd consider celestial warlock so you can bonus action healing light yourself. Plus you'll pick up both eldritch blast and sacred flame as ranged options, plus a short rechargeable spell slot and access to a couple of spells that might be useful.
I took Celestial as my patron when I multiclassed into Warlock with my Paladin, and I can say that the utility and healing has proven to be far more effective than my party or I anticipated with just gaining Healing Light to use every now and then when our spell slots are low. With Pact of the Tome I grabbed a Utility cantrip and a Damage cantrip, then I changed over some of my healing/utility spells like Cure Wounds to Warlock spell slots so now I'm not at odds on burning through my casting resources; having Cure Wounds available on short rests if I've already used my spell slots up has really benefited our group. It really takes the edge off of our Divine Soul Sorcerer having to fill the void of Heals and Buffs while also trying to do (moderate) DPR.
1-2 levels of warlock makes for a cool dip. Gives you a powerful ranged option, and some other goodies (see in magical darkness?), and short rest spellslots to burn for your smites. If you go hexblade you even get a powerful boss-killer ability that doesnt use concentration, and the shield spell. It is a 5e classic class combo :)
Thanks for the advice. I ended up going Rogue but just to confirm something - as a Paladin (Oath of Vengence) 6 / Rogue (Assassin) 3 a surprise attack against an Undead boss could do 8d8+4 + 4d6 damage (first attack) plus advantage on second attack of 4d8+4, with burning both level 2 spell slots on Divine Smite (and if I find a finesse weapon).
So in theory up to 122 damage in a single surprise attack (12d8+8+4d6)
You do realize you didnt gain much by this at all right? I could understand if you were a rogue main and took a few lvls in paladin. But a str Paladin main and a few lvls in rogue? Sneak is situational. You're SBing the paladin which most like means you're most likely also in heavy armor. Regardless of expertise you're at disadvantage for stealth. Making most of you're advantage by sneak irrelevant. Furthermore you're stats are set for a Strength Paladin yet you choose a dex based multiclass. If we were to say disadvantage is similar to advantage giving you a +5 disadvantage is giving you at least a -5. With expertise in stealth you're looking at a +3 at disadvantage at the most.
If you're not wearing heavy armor neat. You now have a +8 to stealth. But a way lower AC incomparison meaning you're more likely to hit. Also as a front line fighter, by you're own words the only one doing it than you've just give up Hp in the process as well as ac to make this even feasible give you're stats.
Are you gonna continue going Paladin? Or rogue?
Going rogue? You've lost everything after blindsight on wards.
Going Paladin? You've lost an ASI in probably the most MAD class in the game. As well as the Vengeances end game feat, and one of your two 5th lvl spells for a multiclass by all current guides when you're a strength based paladin is mesh.
To top this all off you set yourself back 3 lvls from getting Haste a spell that allows the Vengeance to deal more damage faster than any class in the game.
If you're thinking your gonna make a Vax'ildan character it wont work the same. Vax was only as powerful as he was because of his high DeX, and his items that he has. His character was also rolled vs you're point buy or standard array.
I could only see this ever being a good decision if you were a dex based paladin. You're not though and most Paladins will end up either outdamaging you or outliving you. That and it doesnt solve you're over all problem of range in your campaign. Instead you've made your problem worse because to make your build work you've dropped you're AC and HP for a +8 to stealth. Which at the most will give you an 18 stealth on avg. Not exactly super stealthy are we.
Expertise in Perception and Stealth, giving me +8/18 passive Per and +10 Stealth to offset the Disadvantage of heavy armor
Cunning Action to be able to disengage/dash in combat (more movement options and 60ft to get into melee range)
Assassinate to be able to get Advantage in combat (coupled with Vow of Enmity I have advantage a lot)
Sneak Attack for added melee damage
7th-9th level Paladin doesn't give much benefit apart from Ability Point Increase apart from 2x 3rd level and 1x 2nd level as opposed to the above benefits of Rogue
One of our Sorcerers already has Haste and casts in during combat. as this is Concentration I'm more likely to take damage and lose it than she is
Based on our Campaign (Curse of Strahd) I doubt we will get past level 13 and 15 is the Hardcover max.
May not be the best optimal choice but its fun.
My secondary character is a Half-Orc Cleric (War) 1 / Rogue 1 so maybe its just my style.
Hi,
What is a good option for a level 6 paladin to multiclass to or should I stay the course?
A little bit of context - I'm playing in an AL game and we're around 6-8 level, with the conversion I should be going to level 7. Currently our core group is a Fighter (samurai dex build using a bow), a warlock, two sorcerers (1 being divine soul), and a ranger, and myself a paladin (using warhammer+shield). As such they basically all stay back and use ranged attacks and I tank all the hits. Adversely fighting flying/ranged creatures I stand there pointlessly holding my attack if the DM moves the creatures within range (which he usually doesn't) while they use their spells/bow.
I was looking forward to Improved Smite and initially was going to wait until level 12+ but I don't know if I'll get to level 13 and I find I lack any good ranged options as i use my spell slots for Divine Smite mostly.
My options -
My Stats - Str 16 | Dex 14 | Con 16 | Int 8 | Wis 10 | Cha 14
You are only 1 level away from an ASI and you can take magic initiate sorcerer or warlock to grab those ranged attack cantrips, so if you are going to multiclass, at least have other features you are after.
3 levels of warlock (any, but lets say celestial if it is required) can get you pact of chain to have a familiar to scout, help or attack with, and you can take the gift of the ever living ones invocation to max out any healing targeted at you to improve tanking. And you will have a few more non-spell healing options too.
Of course you can also fix your range inadequacy by picking up a handful of javelins which you had as an option in starting equipment. Also, the fighter and/or ranger should be supporting you on the front lines. 1 melee fighter can't hold a formation, how are the archers not constantly at disadvantage from enemies getting close?
Half the time they all run away from the enemy. The fighter is using a dex/Samurai build the DM has helped her with - she also has an elven feat so she can get additional advantage on attack rolls. In one fight I went down and while they got the enemy with a ranged spell they took 2 turns to get to me because they were so far away.
The divine soul doesnt know healing word either? Yeah, you might want to go for the extra tanking options I mentioned.
lol have the DM help you with your Dwarven Thrower build!
in all seriousness I think you should stay the course but you might point out your observations to this particular DM. you shouldn't have to multicass to participate.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
I'd consider celestial warlock so you can bonus action healing light yourself. Plus you'll pick up both eldritch blast and sacred flame as ranged options, plus a short rechargeable spell slot and access to a couple of spells that might be useful.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I took Celestial as my patron when I multiclassed into Warlock with my Paladin, and I can say that the utility and healing has proven to be far more effective than my party or I anticipated with just gaining Healing Light to use every now and then when our spell slots are low. With Pact of the Tome I grabbed a Utility cantrip and a Damage cantrip, then I changed over some of my healing/utility spells like Cure Wounds to Warlock spell slots so now I'm not at odds on burning through my casting resources; having Cure Wounds available on short rests if I've already used my spell slots up has really benefited our group. It really takes the edge off of our Divine Soul Sorcerer having to fill the void of Heals and Buffs while also trying to do (moderate) DPR.
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1-2 levels of warlock makes for a cool dip. Gives you a powerful ranged option, and some other goodies (see in magical darkness?), and short rest spellslots to burn for your smites. If you go hexblade you even get a powerful boss-killer ability that doesnt use concentration, and the shield spell. It is a 5e classic class combo :)
Thanks for the advice. I ended up going Rogue but just to confirm something - as a Paladin (Oath of Vengence) 6 / Rogue (Assassin) 3 a surprise attack against an Undead boss could do 8d8+4 + 4d6 damage (first attack) plus advantage on second attack of 4d8+4, with burning both level 2 spell slots on Divine Smite (and if I find a finesse weapon).
So in theory up to 122 damage in a single surprise attack (12d8+8+4d6)
You do realize you didnt gain much by this at all right? I could understand if you were a rogue main and took a few lvls in paladin. But a str Paladin main and a few lvls in rogue? Sneak is situational. You're SBing the paladin which most like means you're most likely also in heavy armor. Regardless of expertise you're at disadvantage for stealth. Making most of you're advantage by sneak irrelevant. Furthermore you're stats are set for a Strength Paladin yet you choose a dex based multiclass. If we were to say disadvantage is similar to advantage giving you a +5 disadvantage is giving you at least a -5. With expertise in stealth you're looking at a +3 at disadvantage at the most.
If you're not wearing heavy armor neat. You now have a +8 to stealth. But a way lower AC incomparison meaning you're more likely to hit. Also as a front line fighter, by you're own words the only one doing it than you've just give up Hp in the process as well as ac to make this even feasible give you're stats.
Are you gonna continue going Paladin? Or rogue?
Going rogue? You've lost everything after blindsight on wards.
Going Paladin? You've lost an ASI in probably the most MAD class in the game. As well as the Vengeances end game feat, and one of your two 5th lvl spells for a multiclass by all current guides when you're a strength based paladin is mesh.
To top this all off you set yourself back 3 lvls from getting Haste a spell that allows the Vengeance to deal more damage faster than any class in the game.
If you're thinking your gonna make a Vax'ildan character it wont work the same. Vax was only as powerful as he was because of his high DeX, and his items that he has. His character was also rolled vs you're point buy or standard array.
I could only see this ever being a good decision if you were a dex based paladin. You're not though and most Paladins will end up either outdamaging you or outliving you. That and it doesnt solve you're over all problem of range in your campaign. Instead you've made your problem worse because to make your build work you've dropped you're AC and HP for a +8 to stealth. Which at the most will give you an 18 stealth on avg. Not exactly super stealthy are we.
The reasons I picked to go Rogue were:
May not be the best optimal choice but its fun.
My secondary character is a Half-Orc Cleric (War) 1 / Rogue 1 so maybe its just my style.