I follow your comments and i really like the fact you over analyzing your answers. Well truth to be told im not a fun of multiclassing and i tend to stay in the first pick. I will check the hexblade but prob i will stick to paladin oathbreaker. Now, i dont know if you have ever played wow, but my mind set is to play a unholy DK , having two pets at most, and do unholy damage. I was thinking before to play Aasimar Oathbreaker with two-handed or Vuman im i want to fully stick to Arthas model and since, as you confirmed it, polearms are hard to find while there are tons of two-handed weapons, i thought i will abandon the idea to play POM. i might get sentinel way later.
As i said i will check the hexblade multi, but can you suggest starting values for Oathbreak, for aasimar and Vuman.
I dont know why i typed in my previous post that you are gonna lose 8 Ability points prob from my sleepiness.
I think Dragonborn is the best race for strength paladins, but Half-orcs and Tritons are also good. For a dexterity paladin, Tabaxi, Drow, Lightfoot Halflings, and Feral Tieflings are the best. Variant Humans, Half-Elves, and Variant Aasimar are versatile an can be strength or dexterity paladins.
I voted Half-Elf, because that's my answer to any question like this.
Specifically for a dexterity based build, because Elven Accuracy allows you the re-roll of the advantage dice for any attack that doesn't use strength.
Weapon choices are, unfortunately, pretty much limited to rapier, whip, dagger and longbow. Commit to the bit and dump strength. Light/medium armour and shield is adequate. No multi-classing but... whatever. Starting stats 8/16/14/10/10/17. Branding Smite and Banishing Smite have the advantage that they can be used with your longbow. It's a niche use but it might come up. I'd take magic initiate to get Eldritch Blast at level 4. Mage hand and Hex, I guess, for the other spells.
For a dex based elven accuracy build, at least using point buy, I think Eladrin is a better call than half elf. Stat bonuses aren't as good, but you can start with a post-racial 17 in dexterity, allowing you to take elven accuracy without slowing the progression of your primary stat bonus.
Now if you plan to dip hexblade warlock for charisma-based weapon attacks, then half elf's +2 cha lets you do that. Alternatively, if you're rolling dice for stats instead of doing point buy, then it may or may not matter depending on what your highest score actually is.
I haven't visited this Thread since, January, I think. I have read everybody's comments and I can't figure out a way to add Fallen Aasimar's or basically any Eberron races without making an entirely new Poll. I apologize for the lack of these races but it doesn't matter too much because you can always write in the comments what you think.
Really, hard to wrong with Dragonborn, Half Elf or Variant Human imo. All three are excellent choices and have abilities that work well with a paladin. I think Half Orc, Mountain Dwarf or Goliath have some good ability scores and racials that work well for a paladin, also. You will only start with a 14 or 15 Charisma, with the latter three, though. But I like the Half Orc, Mountain Dwarf and Goliath for an interesting character and background story. I think those three are not the perfect paladin, but make for an interesting one.
Paladins have heavy stat requirements. They want attack-stat-quality scores in charisma and a weapon attack stat, they want a good score - at least a +2 bonus - in constitution for both hp and concentration saves as a mixed melee spellcaster. Like every other character they really don't want penalties in dexterity and wisdom. Their only mechanically easy dump stat is intelligence.
As such, if you're playing without racial-bonus-swapping from Tasha's Cauldron, the heavy pressure on your stats will divide racial tiers accordingly.
S Tier: bonuses to strength (or dexterity*) and charisma plus other relevant and strong racial traits. EG Variant Human, Half Elf, Fallen Aasimar
A Tier: bonuses to strength (or dexterity*) and charisma, but few or minor other relevant traits. EG Dragonborn, Zariel Tieflings
B Tier: bonus to strength (or dexterity*) OR charisma, plus other strong and relevant racial traits: EG non-fallen Aasimar, Half Orcs, Hill Dwarves
C Tier: bonus to strength (or dexterity*) OR charisma OR other relevant racial traits: EG most races that aren't in the above three categories
D Tier: Vedalken
If you're playing WITH racial bonus swapping from Tasha's, then pretty much every race rises at least to the level of A tier previously, while nothing shoots out above the previous S tier, so the whole racial tier system is heavily flattened as an effect of raising the floor. This is the desired result of the Tasha's race variant rules, though not all classes have this ideal result. Heavily single stat dependent builds like Rogues, Dex Fighters, Ranged Rangers, and Hexblades can see the Custom Origin shoot way out in front of all previous options due to the ability to stack a +2 bonus with a half feat to reach a starting 18 in point buy games. On the other hand, normally non- or poorly-armored classes like bards, wizards, non-hexblade warlocks and the like see the mountain dwarf, with its medium armor proficiency and +2 to any two stats, shooting out way in front of arguably even custom origin. Making just two options the obvious best for a lot of classes is kind of a negative result, so a number of DMs may be reluctant to implement these rules in their campaigns. Thus they might not be available to your paladin even if those problems aren't relevant to paladins. Regardless, if these rules are in effect, the tiers become:
S tier: racial bonuses to two or more stats and strong & relevant additional traits: eg Variant Human, all Aasimar, Half Elves, Triton
A Tier: everything else: eg Dragonborn, Custom Origin, Tieflings
A note to DMs: if you want to implement Tasha's racial options in your games but you're concerned about these possible negative repercussions, I recommend the following additional house rules: 1) no character in a point-buy game can start at level 1 with a score of 18 or higher in any stat. 2) if a player uses the custom origin rules to change the stat bonuses of their race, that race loses any racial armor proficiencies they previously had. Mountain Dwarf is still strong with it's +2 to two stats, but no longer throws off the intended low base AC of squishy classes like wizard or Bard without also paying a price in terms of lower starting primary stat.
*dexadins, dex primary, finesse & light-or-medium armor paladins are a thing, and obviously they prefer dex & cha rather than strength & cha weapons. However, the lack of relevant dexterity proficiencies in the paladin skill list - forcing the paladin to look to race and background for thieves tools, stealth, acrobatics, and slight of hand proficiencies, which in turn limits the ability to use those things to use those options to grab perception - along with the paladins 13 strength requirement for multiclassing, which is almost impossible to reach in a point buy game while also having acceptable scores for a dexadin in dexterity, constitution, and charisma, often effectively prohibiting dexadins from multiclassing - mean that dexadins in general tend to be a step below more typical strength paladins overall. So, for example, while Eladrin might be an S Tier race choice for a dexadin, the resulting character might not be as effective overall as a typical strength-favoring paladin that went with one of their S-Tier race options such as Fallen Aasimar. Variant Human and Half Elf, by virtue of their floating bonuses, are S tier race choices for both dexadins and regular strength paladins, but will typically be more effective as regular strength paladins, particularly if they want to have the option to multiclass, which is significant as paladin has several highly effective multiclassing options available to it.
With the Adventurer's League legal floating stats something like Wood Elf, with its extra movement, becomes quite attractive. High Elf can take a Wizard spell (although it'll have to be one of the ones that don't use your intelligence since your Int will be average at best). Id say the Levistus Tiefling is very good because Ray of Frost gives you a fair ranged magic attack that Paladins don't typically get. Thinking about it Levistus Tiefling is probably my preferred race for any charisma based class. As a Tiefling they can also take the Infernal Constitution feat to give resistance to Cold and Poison damage on top of the Tiefling's native Fire resistance.
Adventurer's League restricting additional class features to PHB+1, ie you get the additional feature options if and only if your +1 is Tasha, is remarkably harsh. At that point they might as well ban every other book and just restrict AL to PHB+Tasha, with no other source book options. It's particularly weird since they opted /not/ to restrict the custom origin rules the same way. Honestly, things like that are why I don't play AL. I'd rather deal with a capricious DM allowing and banning options individually. At least you can try to reason with an individual DM.
Adventurer's League restricting additional class features to PHB+1, ie you get the additional feature options if and only if your +1 is Tasha, is remarkably harsh. At that point they might as well ban every other book and just restrict AL to PHB+Tasha, with no other source book options. It's particularly weird since they opted /not/ to restrict the custom origin rules the same way. Honestly, things like that are why I don't play AL. I'd rather deal with a capricious DM allowing and banning options individually. At least you can try to reason with an individual DM.
AL has also removed Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide as a valid source, which has the odd effect of banning a few totally innocuous things that have never been reprinted elsewhere, including the Arcana cleric, Sun Soul monk, and variant half-elves.
WIth half-elf, you get +2 to charisma, and you can get +1 to strength/ dex, and constitution
Yup, and that makes them among the best paladin races, with or without Tasha's. The other benefits aren't nothing either, particularly the extra skill proficiencies, since paladins do not get as many as they would like otherwise.
But they're still only one of several best. Variant Humans, Fallen Aasimar, other Aasimar (with Tasha's), and Tritons (in maritime games) are all just as good.
It depends on if your'e going to be the Party's Martial class or if your'e going for a healer/Martial healer hybrid. If your Paladin is the Party's Martial Character than Dragonborn is the way to go. If your being a mix of Cleric and Fighter then Half-elf is the way to go because you could get +2 Cha, +1 Str, and +1 Con. The Charisma bonus is very helpful for spellcasting.
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I follow your comments and i really like the fact you over analyzing your answers. Well truth to be told im not a fun of multiclassing and i tend to stay in the first pick. I will check the hexblade but prob i will stick to paladin oathbreaker. Now, i dont know if you have ever played wow, but my mind set is to play a unholy DK , having two pets at most, and do unholy damage. I was thinking before to play Aasimar Oathbreaker with two-handed or Vuman im i want to fully stick to Arthas model and since, as you confirmed it, polearms are hard to find while there are tons of two-handed weapons, i thought i will abandon the idea to play POM. i might get sentinel way later.
As i said i will check the hexblade multi, but can you suggest starting values for Oathbreak, for aasimar and Vuman.
I dont know why i typed in my previous post that you are gonna lose 8 Ability points prob from my sleepiness.
I think Dragonborn is the best race for strength paladins, but Half-orcs and Tritons are also good. For a dexterity paladin, Tabaxi, Drow, Lightfoot Halflings, and Feral Tieflings are the best. Variant Humans, Half-Elves, and Variant Aasimar are versatile an can be strength or dexterity paladins.
If you're playing in an underwater campaign, and want to be a paladin, Triton wins.
Any other situation, Triton is still good, but not as good.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
If we look at point-build, the following races can achieve 16 str/16 cha:
Fallen aasimar looks like a pretty solid choice.
Changelings should be up there as well.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I voted Half-Elf, because that's my answer to any question like this.
Specifically for a dexterity based build, because Elven Accuracy allows you the re-roll of the advantage dice for any attack that doesn't use strength.
Weapon choices are, unfortunately, pretty much limited to rapier, whip, dagger and longbow. Commit to the bit and dump strength. Light/medium armour and shield is adequate. No multi-classing but... whatever. Starting stats 8/16/14/10/10/17. Branding Smite and Banishing Smite have the advantage that they can be used with your longbow. It's a niche use but it might come up. I'd take magic initiate to get Eldritch Blast at level 4. Mage hand and Hex, I guess, for the other spells.
For a dex based elven accuracy build, at least using point buy, I think Eladrin is a better call than half elf. Stat bonuses aren't as good, but you can start with a post-racial 17 in dexterity, allowing you to take elven accuracy without slowing the progression of your primary stat bonus.
Now if you plan to dip hexblade warlock for charisma-based weapon attacks, then half elf's +2 cha lets you do that. Alternatively, if you're rolling dice for stats instead of doing point buy, then it may or may not matter depending on what your highest score actually is.
I haven't visited this Thread since, January, I think. I have read everybody's comments and I can't figure out a way to add Fallen Aasimar's or basically any Eberron races without making an entirely new Poll. I apologize for the lack of these races but it doesn't matter too much because you can always write in the comments what you think.
Until next time, AldrekStormcloak.
"A Jack Of All Trades is a master of none"
'That's why I hate Bards'
Best hilarious race = Humans
Best class = Halflings, Hobbits, Aasimar, Tabaxis and Tritons.
Tritons with Tridents and with rideable Dolphins... DA BEST there !!!
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
bugbear should be on the poll.
Really, hard to wrong with Dragonborn, Half Elf or Variant Human imo. All three are excellent choices and have abilities that work well with a paladin. I think Half Orc, Mountain Dwarf or Goliath have some good ability scores and racials that work well for a paladin, also. You will only start with a 14 or 15 Charisma, with the latter three, though. But I like the Half Orc, Mountain Dwarf and Goliath for an interesting character and background story. I think those three are not the perfect paladin, but make for an interesting one.
Paladins have heavy stat requirements. They want attack-stat-quality scores in charisma and a weapon attack stat, they want a good score - at least a +2 bonus - in constitution for both hp and concentration saves as a mixed melee spellcaster. Like every other character they really don't want penalties in dexterity and wisdom. Their only mechanically easy dump stat is intelligence.
As such, if you're playing without racial-bonus-swapping from Tasha's Cauldron, the heavy pressure on your stats will divide racial tiers accordingly.
If you're playing WITH racial bonus swapping from Tasha's, then pretty much every race rises at least to the level of A tier previously, while nothing shoots out above the previous S tier, so the whole racial tier system is heavily flattened as an effect of raising the floor. This is the desired result of the Tasha's race variant rules, though not all classes have this ideal result. Heavily single stat dependent builds like Rogues, Dex Fighters, Ranged Rangers, and Hexblades can see the Custom Origin shoot way out in front of all previous options due to the ability to stack a +2 bonus with a half feat to reach a starting 18 in point buy games. On the other hand, normally non- or poorly-armored classes like bards, wizards, non-hexblade warlocks and the like see the mountain dwarf, with its medium armor proficiency and +2 to any two stats, shooting out way in front of arguably even custom origin. Making just two options the obvious best for a lot of classes is kind of a negative result, so a number of DMs may be reluctant to implement these rules in their campaigns. Thus they might not be available to your paladin even if those problems aren't relevant to paladins. Regardless, if these rules are in effect, the tiers become:
A note to DMs: if you want to implement Tasha's racial options in your games but you're concerned about these possible negative repercussions, I recommend the following additional house rules: 1) no character in a point-buy game can start at level 1 with a score of 18 or higher in any stat. 2) if a player uses the custom origin rules to change the stat bonuses of their race, that race loses any racial armor proficiencies they previously had. Mountain Dwarf is still strong with it's +2 to two stats, but no longer throws off the intended low base AC of squishy classes like wizard or Bard without also paying a price in terms of lower starting primary stat.
*dexadins, dex primary, finesse & light-or-medium armor paladins are a thing, and obviously they prefer dex & cha rather than strength & cha weapons. However, the lack of relevant dexterity proficiencies in the paladin skill list - forcing the paladin to look to race and background for thieves tools, stealth, acrobatics, and slight of hand proficiencies, which in turn limits the ability to use those things to use those options to grab perception - along with the paladins 13 strength requirement for multiclassing, which is almost impossible to reach in a point buy game while also having acceptable scores for a dexadin in dexterity, constitution, and charisma, often effectively prohibiting dexadins from multiclassing - mean that dexadins in general tend to be a step below more typical strength paladins overall. So, for example, while Eladrin might be an S Tier race choice for a dexadin, the resulting character might not be as effective overall as a typical strength-favoring paladin that went with one of their S-Tier race options such as Fallen Aasimar. Variant Human and Half Elf, by virtue of their floating bonuses, are S tier race choices for both dexadins and regular strength paladins, but will typically be more effective as regular strength paladins, particularly if they want to have the option to multiclass, which is significant as paladin has several highly effective multiclassing options available to it.
With the Adventurer's League legal floating stats something like Wood Elf, with its extra movement, becomes quite attractive. High Elf can take a Wizard spell (although it'll have to be one of the ones that don't use your intelligence since your Int will be average at best). Id say the Levistus Tiefling is very good because Ray of Frost gives you a fair ranged magic attack that Paladins don't typically get. Thinking about it Levistus Tiefling is probably my preferred race for any charisma based class. As a Tiefling they can also take the Infernal Constitution feat to give resistance to Cold and Poison damage on top of the Tiefling's native Fire resistance.
Adventurer's League restricting additional class features to PHB+1, ie you get the additional feature options if and only if your +1 is Tasha, is remarkably harsh. At that point they might as well ban every other book and just restrict AL to PHB+Tasha, with no other source book options. It's particularly weird since they opted /not/ to restrict the custom origin rules the same way. Honestly, things like that are why I don't play AL. I'd rather deal with a capricious DM allowing and banning options individually. At least you can try to reason with an individual DM.
AL has also removed Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide as a valid source, which has the odd effect of banning a few totally innocuous things that have never been reprinted elsewhere, including the Arcana cleric, Sun Soul monk, and variant half-elves.
https://cast-party.com/
The Sun Soul Monk is in Xanathar's. But yes, the loss of the Arcana Cleric is a bit of a blow.
WIth half-elf, you get +2 to charisma, and you can get +1 to strength/ dex, and constitution
Yup, and that makes them among the best paladin races, with or without Tasha's. The other benefits aren't nothing either, particularly the extra skill proficiencies, since paladins do not get as many as they would like otherwise.
But they're still only one of several best. Variant Humans, Fallen Aasimar, other Aasimar (with Tasha's), and Tritons (in maritime games) are all just as good.
teifling is a great one
It depends on if your'e going to be the Party's Martial class or if your'e going for a healer/Martial healer hybrid. If your Paladin is the Party's Martial Character than Dragonborn is the way to go. If your being a mix of Cleric and Fighter then Half-elf is the way to go because you could get +2 Cha, +1 Str, and +1 Con. The Charisma bonus is very helpful for spellcasting.