Satyrs are considered fey creatures, according to their creature type. An Oath of Ancients Paladin gets this channel divinity feature:
Turn the Faithless. You can use your Channel Divinity to utter ancient words that are painful for fey and fiends to hear. As an action, you present your holy symbol, and each fey or fiend within 30 feet of you that can hear you must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is turned for 1 minute or until it takes damage.
A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can’t willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can’t take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there’s nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.
If the creature’s true form is concealed by an illusion, shapeshifting, or other effect, that form is revealed while it is turned.
Therefore, would a Satyr Paladin taking this Oath need to make a save against their own channel divinity if they used this particular feature? What would happen if they turned themselves?
Considering it is emanating from you, I think it would not have any affect. It definitely would make you seem like a bully to other fey, or you could act like a tyrannical lord. You don't have to suffer the effects of the fear spell when you cast it.
the ability does not allow you to pick an choose like many other fear effects [eg dragon fear feat: Instead of ex haling destructive energy, you can ex-pend a use of your Breath Weapon trait to roar, forcing each creature of your choice within 30 feet of you, Conquering Presence: You can use your Channel Divinity to exude a terrifying presence. As an action, you force each creature of your choice, etc...] so RAW yes it would affect the satyr emanating the effect. its yet another oversight from 5e so don't use it until higher level or bend the rules
The actual rules for being turned (turned creature must move away from the source of the turn and can't willingly move closer) don't work if the turned creature is the source of its own turn. You always occupy a space within thirty feet of yourself, and everywhere you move is also moving closer to yourself. As a DM, I'd rule that the Ancients satyr cannot/does not turn itself simply because there's no way for it having turned itself to work.
As long as you can hear yourself it would affect you. See if your DM will allow covering your ears to work to prevent it, or something similar. However, if you did turn yourself, you wouldn't be able to really run away from yourself, so you'd be left dodging and unable to take reactions. You could always try and damage yourself on your next turn if you haven't taken damage by then. You'd have disadvantage on the attack, though.
This wasn’t a question directly related to a game I’m currently DMing or playing in. It’s just a question that popped up when I was theorycrafting a Satyr Oath of Ancients Paladin and noticed the Satyr is the same creature type as the ones affected by the ability. Centaurs would also face a similar problem.
Regardless, the ability says that creatures within 30 feet of you are affected. One interpretation of this is that its effects exclude you. Which would mean the ability doesn’t work. Yurei made an interesting point above as well.
It's a case where executing the instructions issued by the ability is impossible. One could argue various versions of "well this is how you Turn yourself properly", but none of them are really functional. From a code-writer's perspective (and any argument to strict readings of RAW is indistinguishable from a code argument), the instructions are gibberish. A creature cannot logically suffer Fear from itself, nor can it move away from or avoid moving closer to itself. This would be a bug in the code, and probably one that would break a program. Since RAW is about executing the game's code, RAW has no answer. The DM will have to rule on the ability, and honestly this is one of the clearest-cut cases I've ever seen for why a DM is important in games like this.
And from a RAI/Rule of Fun perspective, those who state that a satyr or centaur Ancients paladin must necessarily cripple itself with its own Channel Divinity are Grinching the game. Oath of the Ancients absolutely makes sense for these races; what better guardian of the ancient fey ways than a fey creature? Clearly the creature is protected from its own utterance through some means, elsewise the character is just less fun.
It's a case where executing the instructions issued by the ability is impossible. One could argue various versions of "well this is how you Turn yourself properly", but none of them are really functional. From a code-writer's perspective (and any argument to strict readings of RAW is indistinguishable from a code argument), the instructions are gibberish. A creature cannot logically suffer Fear from itself, nor can it move away from or avoid moving closer to itself. This would be a bug in the code, and probably one that would break a program. Since RAW is about executing the game's code, RAW has no answer. The DM will have to rule on the ability, and honestly this is one of the clearest-cut cases I've ever seen for why a DM is important in games like this.
And from a RAI/Rule of Fun perspective, those who state that a satyr or centaur Ancients paladin must necessarily cripple itself with its own Channel Divinity are Grinching the game. Oath of the Ancients absolutely makes sense for these races; what better guardian of the ancient fey ways than a fey creature? Clearly the creature is protected from its own utterance through some means, elsewise the character is just less fun.
I agree with all of this. You're basically like the horizon walker ranger for planar boundaries, but you deal with Fey and Fiends exclusively. Actually, it's funny as this did come up in a one shot that I had a player using a Satyr Oath of Ancients Paladin. He had this exact question and I told him that for the purposes of the one shot that he wouldn't affect himself since it was about having fun. Still...I could see a more prickish DM using this just to piss off a player. Though in that case, I would just use the entangle ability of my channel divinity for the rest of my days with that character. Though it would really screw up one of the best CC options that this Paladin has.
As someone who writes a lot of code himself, I appreciate your interpretation. Thank you!
I'd say a fey you're riding would try and gallop away from you or even try and throw you off. I think it is a diferent case than turning yourself.
Also RAW I'd say IF you turned yourself , following the rules exactly, I'd say the sentence "It can't willingly move to a place within 30 ft. of you" would make all spaces around you impossible, so "running as fast away from you" isn't possible, even if you'd tried to run. But the rule also states "If there’s nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action." would mean you would be able to dodge. So I think one way Yureis "program" could go would be that you can only try to escape grapples or dodge.
But then again. that shit is dumb and shouldn't be played RAW. Don't scare yourself. Just let that one go.
Turn the Faithless is such a weird ability. Ancients paladins, as defenders of wild and natural places, should if anything be friends of fey, not turn them. Big shrug. As a DM, I'd make it only effect targets of your choice that meet the criteria rather than all. As is though... yeah. Really awkward.
Considering it is emanating from you, I think it would not have any affect.
Can you smell your own farts?
Sure, I can smell my own farts, but I don’t need to leave the room. To me they have a nice earthy scent. Same as when my satyr paladin uses his holy symbol to cast turn the faithless.
Satyrs are considered fey creatures, according to their creature type. An Oath of Ancients Paladin gets this channel divinity feature:
Turn the Faithless. You can use your Channel Divinity to utter ancient words that are painful for fey and fiends to hear. As an action, you present your holy symbol, and each fey or fiend within 30 feet of you that can hear you must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is turned for 1 minute or until it takes damage.
A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can’t willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can’t take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there’s nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.
If the creature’s true form is concealed by an illusion, shapeshifting, or other effect, that form is revealed while it is turned.
Therefore, would a Satyr Paladin taking this Oath need to make a save against their own channel divinity if they used this particular feature? What would happen if they turned themselves?
Considering it is emanating from you, I think it would not have any affect. It definitely would make you seem like a bully to other fey, or you could act like a tyrannical lord. You don't have to suffer the effects of the fear spell when you cast it.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
the ability does not allow you to pick an choose like many other fear effects [eg dragon fear feat: Instead of ex haling destructive energy, you can ex-pend a use of your Breath Weapon trait to roar, forcing each creature of your choice within 30 feet of you, Conquering Presence: You can use your Channel Divinity to exude a terrifying presence. As an action, you force each creature of your choice, etc...] so RAW yes it would affect the satyr emanating the effect. its yet another oversight from 5e so don't use it until higher level or bend the rules
The actual rules for being turned (turned creature must move away from the source of the turn and can't willingly move closer) don't work if the turned creature is the source of its own turn. You always occupy a space within thirty feet of yourself, and everywhere you move is also moving closer to yourself. As a DM, I'd rule that the Ancients satyr cannot/does not turn itself simply because there's no way for it having turned itself to work.
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As long as you can hear yourself it would affect you. See if your DM will allow covering your ears to work to prevent it, or something similar. However, if you did turn yourself, you wouldn't be able to really run away from yourself, so you'd be left dodging and unable to take reactions. You could always try and damage yourself on your next turn if you haven't taken damage by then. You'd have disadvantage on the attack, though.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
This wasn’t a question directly related to a game I’m currently DMing or playing in. It’s just a question that popped up when I was theorycrafting a Satyr Oath of Ancients Paladin and noticed the Satyr is the same creature type as the ones affected by the ability. Centaurs would also face a similar problem.
Regardless, the ability says that creatures within 30 feet of you are affected. One interpretation of this is that its effects exclude you. Which would mean the ability doesn’t work. Yurei made an interesting point above as well.
It's a case where executing the instructions issued by the ability is impossible. One could argue various versions of "well this is how you Turn yourself properly", but none of them are really functional. From a code-writer's perspective (and any argument to strict readings of RAW is indistinguishable from a code argument), the instructions are gibberish. A creature cannot logically suffer Fear from itself, nor can it move away from or avoid moving closer to itself. This would be a bug in the code, and probably one that would break a program. Since RAW is about executing the game's code, RAW has no answer. The DM will have to rule on the ability, and honestly this is one of the clearest-cut cases I've ever seen for why a DM is important in games like this.
And from a RAI/Rule of Fun perspective, those who state that a satyr or centaur Ancients paladin must necessarily cripple itself with its own Channel Divinity are Grinching the game. Oath of the Ancients absolutely makes sense for these races; what better guardian of the ancient fey ways than a fey creature? Clearly the creature is protected from its own utterance through some means, elsewise the character is just less fun.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
I agree with all of this. You're basically like the horizon walker ranger for planar boundaries, but you deal with Fey and Fiends exclusively. Actually, it's funny as this did come up in a one shot that I had a player using a Satyr Oath of Ancients Paladin. He had this exact question and I told him that for the purposes of the one shot that he wouldn't affect himself since it was about having fun. Still...I could see a more prickish DM using this just to piss off a player. Though in that case, I would just use the entangle ability of my channel divinity for the rest of my days with that character. Though it would really screw up one of the best CC options that this Paladin has.
As someone who writes a lot of code himself, I appreciate your interpretation. Thank you!
The big question to me is what if you took a fey for your find steed?
I can see it running if you’re not riding it, but what if you’re mounted? The obvious choice is to not choose a fey, but someone out there won’t.
I'd say a fey you're riding would try and gallop away from you or even try and throw you off. I think it is a diferent case than turning yourself.
Also RAW I'd say IF you turned yourself , following the rules exactly, I'd say the sentence "It can't willingly move to a place within 30 ft. of you" would make all spaces around you impossible, so "running as fast away from you" isn't possible, even if you'd tried to run. But the rule also states "If there’s nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action." would mean you would be able to dodge. So I think one way Yureis "program" could go would be that you can only try to escape grapples or dodge.
But then again. that shit is dumb and shouldn't be played RAW. Don't scare yourself. Just let that one go.
Turn the Faithless is such a weird ability. Ancients paladins, as defenders of wild and natural places, should if anything be friends of fey, not turn them. Big shrug. As a DM, I'd make it only effect targets of your choice that meet the criteria rather than all. As is though... yeah. Really awkward.
Can you smell your own farts?
Sure, I can smell my own farts, but I don’t need to leave the room. To me they have a nice earthy scent. Same as when my satyr paladin uses his holy symbol to cast turn the faithless.