So I am in a party currently in an Wildermount campaign, the team consists of a wizard (drow/unkown school), warlock (huma/great old one) and a druid (dwarve/Circle of Dreams).
((War domain cleric joining us next session)
We just finished a session and leveled up to lvl 3, as I am the only non caster of the group (Teifling/rouge) I was wondering what subclass should I go with? I find myself to be in close combat a lot, I use cunning action to duck and weave for optimal position. So I narrowed it down initially to three subclasses 1 arcane trickster (spells, mage hand and booming blade cantrip) 2 Swashbuckler (additional way to get sneak attack, charisma based abilities for initiative and charming people) and lastly 3 Soulknife (psychic dice to help with skill abilities, telepathic communication for battle tactics and psychic blades meaning i am never unarmed)
which would you guys suggest? Would one of the other subclasses also be viable? Assasin seems worth a look at.
Honestly, the trick to playing a rogue is always having a means of getting your extra damage from sneak attack/backstab! If you are in a table full of casters that will not reliably be in melee range, it typically becomes difficult to get the sneak attack bonus
This where the swashbuckler shines. Dual wield two light weapons and you won't need cunning action to retreat from up to two opponents. Due to fancy footwork.
Even if the war cleric is a melee build, you'll still have the option to single out an opponent to gain the upper hand and sneak attack. The big question is, what is your Charisma score?? Bonus to your initiative is a nice touch.
If you have a party full of casters, your 1/3 caster level for Arcane Trickster might seem underwhelming.. although an invisible mage hand does have its uses. There's a lot an arcane trickster can do that other rogues can't, but there is very little an arcane trickster can do that a Wizard, Warlock or Cleric cant do
Psychic Blades is nice as well, especially because you can throw them.. but it REALLY fits in better if there are more melee party members
I second swashbuckler. It's going to be the most beneficial with your party composition. You'll get your sneak attack off by being the only person in melee with the opponent and you have fancy footwork to get away without provoking opportunity attacks. Bonus to initiative is just gravy.
Yeah.. def get your dex up first! Don’t worry TOO much about charisma, as CON will probably be important if you’re the only melee character. But charisma is super useful, especially when you try level 10 feature
dont forget you get an extra ASI/feat at level 6. You could round off that 17 dex with a Piercer feat.. will let you reroll one of your weapon attack’s, which includes your sneak attack dice pool.
I'm definitely thinking of going swashbuckler now, I like the idea of me being the none magic user of the team with sword skills. I'm just thinking now what asi and feats I should go with as I level up. I use a rapier so dual weapon fighting is out of the question unless I take up a short sword and dagger (or 2 short swords). Unless I get the dual weilder feat, then I also am loking into skill master for persuasion, insight and (insert skill here) proficiencies. Just need to make sure I also buff my stats as well
Sorry, you are correct, Rogues get the extra ASI at 10, fighters get it at 6...
Unless you have a magical rapier, two weapons (dual short swords or a dagger and short sword) is potentially more damage, and also gives you an extra chance to land your sneak attack if you miss...even without the Dual Wielded Feat.. the Dual wielding fest is nice, as it also grants a +1 AC.. but it's not usually my go to for rogues.
unless you have something in your other hand or need it to grab something, I usually go for dual wielding as a rogue, but there's nothing more thematic than a swash buckling rapier wielding rogue
You've got a lot of good options, so once you get Dex maxed, you can play around with Feat options, but I would prioritize DEX for both AC, damage and attack rolls..
For your group the swashbuckler is definitely the way to go. The alert feat is really good to get but, if like me I got hold of a rapier of warning then that will cover most of the alert feat for you and give to advantage on initiative roll with your cha bonus is really nice.
To help with your low AC I would recommend the cloak of displacement all attacks have disadvantage against you. As an up front build you won't need to sneak so much for that sneak attack damage.
Then it's just really max out Dex maybe get your charisma to 16 then con and what ever feat you feel you need.
That should help get you going first in each combat and keep you there without have to worry so much about how much health you have.
Agree with the others. Swashbuckler will mesh extremely well with the team composition. The war cleric also has Channel Divinity: War God's Blessing which can be used to help make sure you get that sneak attack at the most crucial of times.
As for ability scores, I would prioritize DEX, CON and CHA, while the rest are not as important. DEX for obvious reasons, CON since being one of possibly two frontliners you will need to be able to take a few hits, and CHA for the smooth-talking charm of a Swashbuckler (think Zorro or Jack Sparrow).
As for possible magic items, besides the aforementioned Clock of Displacement (which is a solid choice), I would suggest:
Cloak of Elvenkind (Disadvantage to those that try to detect you and Advantage on Stealth checks)
Amulet of Health (to set CON at 19, more ASIs or more importantly, feats),
Ring of Spell Storing (have one of the casters prepare Shield and Absorb Elements, or any number of teleportation spells for quick getaways)
As for other stuff, the above input from others is pretty solid.
Here is what i am thinking, when i get ti level four i can do one of two things
1 take the asi and put both into dex pushing my 17 to 19
2 take the asi and put one in dex and the other into con/cha so my dex is 18 and my other stat gets closer to getting better.
3 take a feat to bump my dex to 18 and get a little bonus. For the feat i was thinking so far one of these three
i Pieecer- dex asi and ability to reroll damage dice for sneak attack (as well as get a bonus die for critical hits)
ii Skilled expert- dex asi plus persuasion prociciency as well as an expertise for a procifiency
iii Athlete- dex asi, better jump and climb abilities as well as getting up from prone with 5 feet movement
Athlete is an odd one but i figured im not only a fighter but the infiltration guy so a wall climbing speed would be handy. Plus as a front liner i am likely to get knocked down at times so a good chance to get up and still have movement would be handy.
Pushing DEX to 18 and either CON/CHA up is better since having a 19 in DEX is the same as getting an 18.
Taking a feat can also be good as it will help with different situations. As for which feat, all of them sound good. Just check which would benefit the team better.
Piercer makes you a better damage dealer.
Skilled Expert in case you need to help with diplomacy or social situations.
Athlete when you need to infiltrate or be able to get up fast (my caveat is that your party could use some spells).
Anyway, just my opinion. Hope you have a blast of a campaign.
get a blade cantrip and make use of the steady aim feature. This increases your damage quite a bit.
also get find familiar, and have the familiar just ride in your shoulder. It counts as an ally so it can satisfy sneak attack conditions if necessary.
get sentinel feat. This allows you to reliably choose between a reaction attack for sneak die on another creatures turn or using your reaction to reduce damage to you with uncanny dodge. Those reactions are mutually exclusive, so you don’t have to worry about which reaction you want to use.
also get find familiar, and have the familiar just ride in your shoulder. It counts as an ally so it can satisfy sneak attack conditions if necessary.
Holy shit. Never even thought of that until reading this thread. Find Familiar is already my favorite spell, so that little tidbit boosts Rogue to 2nd place for me. Made my day, honestly.
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So I am in a party currently in an Wildermount campaign, the team consists of a wizard (drow/unkown school), warlock (huma/great old one) and a druid (dwarve/Circle of Dreams).
((War domain cleric joining us next session)
We just finished a session and leveled up to lvl 3, as I am the only non caster of the group (Teifling/rouge) I was wondering what subclass should I go with? I find myself to be in close combat a lot, I use cunning action to duck and weave for optimal position. So I narrowed it down initially to three subclasses 1 arcane trickster (spells, mage hand and booming blade cantrip) 2 Swashbuckler (additional way to get sneak attack, charisma based abilities for initiative and charming people) and lastly 3 Soulknife (psychic dice to help with skill abilities, telepathic communication for battle tactics and psychic blades meaning i am never unarmed)
which would you guys suggest? Would one of the other subclasses also be viable? Assasin seems worth a look at.
Honestly, the trick to playing a rogue is always having a means of getting your extra damage from sneak attack/backstab! If you are in a table full of casters that will not reliably be in melee range, it typically becomes difficult to get the sneak attack bonus
This where the swashbuckler shines. Dual wield two light weapons and you won't need cunning action to retreat from up to two opponents. Due to fancy footwork.
Even if the war cleric is a melee build, you'll still have the option to single out an opponent to gain the upper hand and sneak attack. The big question is, what is your Charisma score?? Bonus to your initiative is a nice touch.
If you have a party full of casters, your 1/3 caster level for Arcane Trickster might seem underwhelming.. although an invisible mage hand does have its uses. There's a lot an arcane trickster can do that other rogues can't, but there is very little an arcane trickster can do that a Wizard, Warlock or Cleric cant do
Psychic Blades is nice as well, especially because you can throw them.. but it REALLY fits in better if there are more melee party members
I second swashbuckler. It's going to be the most beneficial with your party composition. You'll get your sneak attack off by being the only person in melee with the opponent and you have fancy footwork to get away without provoking opportunity attacks. Bonus to initiative is just gravy.
currently I have a 17 for dex and a 14 for charisma, so I could focus on those two stats for asi as I level up if I go swashbuckler
Yeah.. def get your dex up first! Don’t worry TOO much about charisma, as CON will probably be important if you’re the only melee character. But charisma is super useful, especially when you try level 10 feature
dont forget you get an extra ASI/feat at level 6. You could round off that 17 dex with a Piercer feat.. will let you reroll one of your weapon attack’s, which includes your sneak attack dice pool.
I don't think I get asi/feat at lvl6 but i do get expertise
I'm definitely thinking of going swashbuckler now, I like the idea of me being the none magic user of the team with sword skills. I'm just thinking now what asi and feats I should go with as I level up. I use a rapier so dual weapon fighting is out of the question unless I take up a short sword and dagger (or 2 short swords). Unless I get the dual weilder feat, then I also am loking into skill master for persuasion, insight and (insert skill here) proficiencies. Just need to make sure I also buff my stats as well
Sorry, you are correct, Rogues get the extra ASI at 10, fighters get it at 6...
Unless you have a magical rapier, two weapons (dual short swords or a dagger and short sword) is potentially more damage, and also gives you an extra chance to land your sneak attack if you miss...even without the Dual Wielded Feat.. the Dual wielding fest is nice, as it also grants a +1 AC.. but it's not usually my go to for rogues.
unless you have something in your other hand or need it to grab something, I usually go for dual wielding as a rogue, but there's nothing more thematic than a swash buckling rapier wielding rogue
You've got a lot of good options, so once you get Dex maxed, you can play around with Feat options, but I would prioritize DEX for both AC, damage and attack rolls..
For your group the swashbuckler is definitely the way to go. The alert feat is really good to get but, if like me I got hold of a rapier of warning then that will cover most of the alert feat for you and give to advantage on initiative roll with your cha bonus is really nice.
To help with your low AC I would recommend the cloak of displacement all attacks have disadvantage against you. As an up front build you won't need to sneak so much for that sneak attack damage.
Then it's just really max out Dex maybe get your charisma to 16 then con and what ever feat you feel you need.
That should help get you going first in each combat and keep you there without have to worry so much about how much health you have.
Agree with the others. Swashbuckler will mesh extremely well with the team composition. The war cleric also has Channel Divinity: War God's Blessing which can be used to help make sure you get that sneak attack at the most crucial of times.
As for ability scores, I would prioritize DEX, CON and CHA, while the rest are not as important. DEX for obvious reasons, CON since being one of possibly two frontliners you will need to be able to take a few hits, and CHA for the smooth-talking charm of a Swashbuckler (think Zorro or Jack Sparrow).
As for possible magic items, besides the aforementioned Clock of Displacement (which is a solid choice), I would suggest:
As for other stuff, the above input from others is pretty solid.
Thank you all for the tips and ideas.
Here is what i am thinking, when i get ti level four i can do one of two things
1 take the asi and put both into dex pushing my 17 to 19
2 take the asi and put one in dex and the other into con/cha so my dex is 18 and my other stat gets closer to getting better.
3 take a feat to bump my dex to 18 and get a little bonus. For the feat i was thinking so far one of these three
i Pieecer- dex asi and ability to reroll damage dice for sneak attack (as well as get a bonus die for critical hits)
ii Skilled expert- dex asi plus persuasion prociciency as well as an expertise for a procifiency
iii Athlete- dex asi, better jump and climb abilities as well as getting up from prone with 5 feet movement
Athlete is an odd one but i figured im not only a fighter but the infiltration guy so a wall climbing speed would be handy. Plus as a front liner i am likely to get knocked down at times so a good chance to get up and still have movement would be handy.
What do you guys think?
Personally, I would do either 2 or 3.
Pushing DEX to 18 and either CON/CHA up is better since having a 19 in DEX is the same as getting an 18.
Taking a feat can also be good as it will help with different situations. As for which feat, all of them sound good. Just check which would benefit the team better.
Anyway, just my opinion. Hope you have a blast of a campaign.
Arcane trickster
get a blade cantrip and make use of the steady aim feature. This increases your damage quite a bit.
also get find familiar, and have the familiar just ride in your shoulder. It counts as an ally so it can satisfy sneak attack conditions if necessary.
get sentinel feat. This allows you to reliably choose between a reaction attack for sneak die on another creatures turn or using your reaction to reduce damage to you with uncanny dodge. Those reactions are mutually exclusive, so you don’t have to worry about which reaction you want to use.
Holy shit. Never even thought of that until reading this thread. Find Familiar is already my favorite spell, so that little tidbit boosts Rogue to 2nd place for me. Made my day, honestly.