Other classes don't actually get much from that Potion of Speed compared to what Rogues get. Nor is Potion of Speed the only option. Rogue/Sorcerer builds double Sneak Attack natively with just class abilities. Scrolls and Enspelled items of Haste are fairly easy to come across. Items like Bracer of Whirling Daggers or Scimitar of Speed provide similar benefits as well. Sentinel in the right builds is a near-automatic Opportunity Attack. And so forth.
Another good example: a 2024 Rogue/Thief with an Enspelled Weapon of True Strike. Bonus Action True Strike, hold Action for your preferred trigger, to do a regular attack as reliably as your trigger.
potions of speed are very rare, if you are chewing through those you need to be tossing the quivelent at the other PCs. And while I think it is a bad rule, that is considered 1/2 a permanent very rare item. So for like every 2 potions of speed you are throwing the wizard a staff of power level item.
Multiclassing, by the time you can pull it off enough to matter, you probably should have gone straight class sorcerer or wizard.
Enspelled weapons are a pretty good way for the thief sub class, at least against low AC monsters as you are stuck with +5 to hit on that cantrip. But that is mainly because its clear 0 playtesting went into enspelled items. If you have a DM who puts them in the game, have at it I guess but he is going to have to start throwing CR15s at your 5th level party. yes hyperbole, but the point stands. Woo shield or something more broken I am not thinking of an extra 4+ times a day, thanks 2024 magic item design.
And if you have to crazy min max and optimize with specific magic items to outpace basic builds without items I think you are doing more to prove the point rogues are lacking. Balance should be found without optimization as someone will always find a loophole to break the game with optimization.
Treantmonk only evaluates classes/sub-classes in terms of DPR. I'm sure there are some people who care about maximizing DPR/combat optimization more than anything else. I don't. I care about having fun, which also includes non-combat parts of the game, i.e., the game overall, which is the point of the OP, i.e., rogue is a well-rounded class.
You are greatly overestimating Treantmonk's videos, he didn't take many things into account in his calculations, so you shouldn't trust them.
Multiclassing, by the time you can pull it off enough to matter, you probably should have gone straight class sorcerer or wizard.
I think you might be overlooking how important martials like Fighters, Rogues and Monks are for burning through Legendary Resistance at higher levels. They bypass the increasingly common anti-magic tools of major adversaries and force them to make multiple saves per round just to remain functional.
Multiclassing, by the time you can pull it off enough to matter, you probably should have gone straight class sorcerer or wizard.
I think you might be overlooking how important martials like Fighters, Rogues and Monks are for burning through Legendary Resistance at higher levels. They bypass the increasingly common anti-magic tools of major adversaries and force them to make multiple saves per round just to remain functional.
Maybe monk, but its against con so probably not. But fighter and rogue, ah no legendary resistance wont be used against them very often.
Unconscious and Blind are seriously debilitating conditions for most enemies. For that matter, restricting an opponent to picking one of movement, Bonus Action or Action is an enormous boost to action economy and while many enemies are immune to Poison, Poison is a significant debuff against enemies who are not.
blind lasts till the end of its turn and costs 3d6, unconscious is bad but takes up 6d6 and is a con save. one you likely wont use as it will gutter out your damage, one its not worth using the legendary resistance on especially given how many 14thcr+ creatures will have some sense that nullifies blind. and both are at 14th level a place most campaigns don't reach.
Another good example: a 2024 Rogue/Thief with an Enspelled Weapon of True Strike. Bonus Action True Strike, hold Action for your preferred trigger, to do a regular attack as reliably as your trigger.
potions of speed are very rare, if you are chewing through those you need to be tossing the quivelent at the other PCs. And while I think it is a bad rule, that is considered 1/2 a permanent very rare item. So for like every 2 potions of speed you are throwing the wizard a staff of power level item.
Multiclassing, by the time you can pull it off enough to matter, you probably should have gone straight class sorcerer or wizard.
Enspelled weapons are a pretty good way for the thief sub class, at least against low AC monsters as you are stuck with +5 to hit on that cantrip. But that is mainly because its clear 0 playtesting went into enspelled items. If you have a DM who puts them in the game, have at it I guess but he is going to have to start throwing CR15s at your 5th level party. yes hyperbole, but the point stands. Woo shield or something more broken I am not thinking of an extra 4+ times a day, thanks 2024 magic item design.
And if you have to crazy min max and optimize with specific magic items to outpace basic builds without items I think you are doing more to prove the point rogues are lacking. Balance should be found without optimization as someone will always find a loophole to break the game with optimization.
You are greatly overestimating Treantmonk's videos, he didn't take many things into account in his calculations, so you shouldn't trust them.
I think you might be overlooking how important martials like Fighters, Rogues and Monks are for burning through Legendary Resistance at higher levels. They bypass the increasingly common anti-magic tools of major adversaries and force them to make multiple saves per round just to remain functional.
Maybe monk, but its against con so probably not. But fighter and rogue, ah no legendary resistance wont be used against them very often.
Unconscious and Blind are seriously debilitating conditions for most enemies. For that matter, restricting an opponent to picking one of movement, Bonus Action or Action is an enormous boost to action economy and while many enemies are immune to Poison, Poison is a significant debuff against enemies who are not.
blind lasts till the end of its turn and costs 3d6, unconscious is bad but takes up 6d6 and is a con save. one you likely wont use as it will gutter out your damage, one its not worth using the legendary resistance on especially given how many 14thcr+ creatures will have some sense that nullifies blind. and both are at 14th level a place most campaigns don't reach.